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1 hour ago, YABO713 said:

 

Am I missing the punchline here? I feel excluded lol

 

Bridgeworks was up for approval recently and some committee members had a real stick up their butt about the height of the project for some reason despite nearby buildings already being taller than it.

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1 hour ago, YABO713 said:

 

Am I missing the punchline here? I feel excluded lol

Julie Trott is the chair of Landmarks and constantly spouts irrational opinions regarding the height of buildings in various historic districts.  She usually does not articulate a reason for this height bias but will just say it is too tall for the site, sometimes after praising the design.   She did this during the various Bridgeworks  presentations and voted to reject the project.  She also opined that  Waverly and Oak is too tall.  I snarkedly (is that a word?) thought  the posted pic would make her despair.   Fortunately for her I doubt she trolls this forum.

Oh, nothing... Just some randomness of progress

 

I've been wondering why portions of tall grasses on Father Caruso have had the 'trampled' aesthetic lately. 

 

20221006_221526.thumb.jpg.b279f266cdd32572eb8556b5be8ea7e7.jpg

 

I've been noticing some lights on in the few windows that exist in the building over the past month.

 

20221006_221556.thumb.jpg.53e1dd4ae7af48780282a6ea3003b993.jpg

 

And, some activity occurring on the outside, too

 

20221005_083734.thumb.jpg.13012d61ee0dba95ea117064230c957b.jpg

 

Me thinks many of you might appreciate this lovely shot

 

20221006_074041.thumb.jpg.6cb883236a5cb28b2bd3396f7ce4c9e7.jpg

Edited by musky
spelling

Where are they living up there?? That's wild

  • 3 weeks later...
  • 3 weeks later...

Shoreway-Tower-8.jpg

 

Shoreway Tower plan rises
By Ken Prendergast / November 8, 2022

 

A conceptual proposal for a residential tower along the West Shoreway, overlooking Edgewater Park, got a little bit taller after it was first introduced to Cleveland’s City Planning Commission last April. Originally proposed to be 10 stories tall, the market-rate apartment building got bumped up to 12 stories and 138 feet tall which puts it over the 115-foot height restriction for that area’s zoning.

 

MORE

https://neo-trans.blog/2022/11/08/shoreway-tower-plan-rises/

"In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck

I imagine this project is going to get slammed at Landmarks.  Usual suspects attacking its height no matter the very rational contentions raised by the developer.

Isn't this right by another big apartment building pretty much on the other side of the same complex area? This area is getting dense dense dense! Too bad all the townhomes/apartments are residential only. Would love to make it more walkable. Looks like there's only two retail spots (both bars) in the complex. 

 

I would hope these developments attract more retail to the area to make the neighborhood really walkable.

1 hour ago, dwolfi01 said:

Isn't this right by another big apartment building pretty much on the other side of the same complex area? This area is getting dense dense dense! Too bad all the townhomes/apartments are residential only. Would love to make it more walkable. Looks like there's only two retail spots (both bars) in the complex. 

 

I would hope these developments attract more retail to the area to make the neighborhood really walkable.

Agreed that this area needs more retail. Unfortunately, the quality of business along Detroit Shoreway in the heart of the neighborhood is not among Cleveland’s best. I think much of it only survives from being subsidized by Northwest Neighborhoods who owns many of the buildings on Detroit. 
 

Makes me curious how much qualified demand there is for space there currently. 
 

There was a market constructed in The Shoreway when it was first built, but I don’t believe it lasted very long. 
 

 

Would love to see a whole stretch of tall residential buildings here North of Lake between 76th and 87th.  Probably the best place to do it since it's currently mostly industrial so can be designed with good access, won't block any sunlight, abuts a major road south and railroad tracks north.  

For the life of me I can't figure out this bias against height by our decision makers on these Boards. I understand the concept of a building not dwarfing everything around it. Blending in. But that shouldn't be a hard and fast rule every time. One perfect example is when views are part of the equation. New apartments in this area are able to take advantage of lake views ONLY when built tall enough. And last I read, water views are still desirable.

 

Besides the height issue I'm not a fan of this design. Especially the intentionally unfinished top. The best thing I can say is it's different, but in a bad way. And the finishes seem to need work. To sterile. I do like the courtyard and the deck/promanade though.

6 minutes ago, cadmen said:

And last I read, water views are still desirable.

 

 

Absolutely. You can get some stunning skyline views there too.

Dear city design review panels: You build high-rises on your waterfront. That's what you do. Case in point is Milwaukee's Lower East Side....

 

hero1a.jpg

 

 

And this was my view coming into Milwaukee on the high-speed ferry from Muskegon, MI a couple years ago. Downtown Milwaukee is on the left, Lower East Side on the right.

 

 

Milwaukee skyline from Muskegon lake ferry-073120-s.jpg

"In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck

42 minutes ago, KJP said:

Dear city design review panels: You build high-rises on your waterfront. That's what you do. Case in point is Milwaukee's Lower East Side....

 

hero1a.jpg

 

 

And this was my view coming into Milwaukee on the high-speed ferry from Muskegon, MI a couple years ago. Downtown Milwaukee is on the left, Lower East Side on the right.

 

 

Milwaukee skyline from Muskegon lake ferry-073120-s.jpg

Exactly. It’s always puzzling to me why there is so little high-rise residential development next to the lake. Lakewoods Gold Coast was built decades ago. Surely there is demand??

^ welp it can be a lot of things. pardon me mixing in things, but out here in staten island we have several old giant waterfront warehouses that were converted to residential, just like westinghouse in cle will be. that would seem to be the easiest thing to do. we also have a new build apt tower right next to the ferry that went bankrupt and has sat as an empty shell for years, although just now its very slowly getting finished. that kind of thing happens. a lot of the northshore here would have to be remediated from past industrial/port use for anything else --- and lastly yeah sandy wrecked the area, so that makes developers skittish. with lake erie of course you need to maintain the waterfront from erosion, which is a big factor for lakefront homeowners. and other buildable land isnt really available -- like i would hope the avon lake power plant site gets something major, but don't count on that. i guess the point is its not so easy as it might seem to build on the waterfront in and around cities.

Tell that to Jersey City 

On 9/12/2022 at 5:21 PM, Clefan98 said:

 

Marous has LOI's out to various owners between W52 & W50. That's all I can say at this point. 

 

The Big Egg is currently putting up new siding... which can only mean one thing... 

 

Sam has once again blown up another deal and will NOT be selling his parcels. *Punches the air in absolute rage*

26 minutes ago, YABO713 said:

 

The Big Egg is currently putting up new siding... which can only mean one thing... 

 

Sam has once again blown up another deal and will NOT be selling his parcels. *Punches the air in absolute rage*

To the Big Egg! Every neighborhood needs a greasy spoon. I haven't had one downtown since the Water Street Grill.

10 hours ago, stpats44113 said:

To the Big Egg! Every neighborhood needs a greasy spoon. I haven't had one downtown since the Water Street Grill.

 

It's been closed for over a year at this point - and last I heard the owner had been made an outstanding offer on the property. But he's been his own worst enemy in such situations in the past, which appears to be the case again. 

34 minutes ago, YABO713 said:

 

It's been closed for over a year at this point - and last I heard the owner had been made an outstanding offer on the property. But he's been his own worst enemy in such situations in the past, which appears to be the case again. 

Has anyone tried putting a severed horse head in his bed?

1 hour ago, Ineffable_Matt said:

Has anyone tried putting a severed horse head in his bed?

 

My wife might be getting there lol. His parcels are at the top of our block and to say they're blighted would be a euphemism 

13 hours ago, YABO713 said:

 

The Big Egg is currently putting up new siding... which can only mean one thing... 

 

Sam has once again blown up another deal and will NOT be selling his parcels. *Punches the air in absolute rage*

 

Not sure what this guy is thinking but this certainly isn't the news we wanted to hear. 

 

The timing of this listing makes a lot more sense now:

https://www.howardhanna.com/Property/Detail/5015-5017-5019-Detroit-Avenue-Cleveland-OH-44102/NorthernOH/4419897

 

 

2 hours ago, YABO713 said:

 

It's been closed for over a year at this point - and last I heard the owner had been made an outstanding offer on the property. But he's been his own worst enemy in such situations in the past, which appears to be the case again. 

Running a restaurant these days, especially for a small business owner, is a nightmare, even if you are busy (which actually maybe more of a nightmare)  If, as you state, he was offered a great deal, he must be pretty stubborn or not particularly bright.

29 minutes ago, Clefan98 said:

 

Not sure what this guy is thinking but this certainly isn't the news we wanted to hear. 

 

The timing of this listing makes a lot more sense now:

https://www.howardhanna.com/Property/Detail/5015-5017-5019-Detroit-Avenue-Cleveland-OH-44102/NorthernOH/4419897

 

 

 

When I saw you quoted me, I was hoping you were going to tell me to shut up and that I didn't know what I was talking about lol. I am MASSIVELY bummed. 

 

Beyond that - they're putting the new siding on incorrectly. It looks awful. 

21 minutes ago, Htsguy said:

Running a restaurant these days, especially for a small business owner, is a nightmare, even if you are busy (which actually maybe more of a nightmare)  If, as you state, he was offered a great deal, he must be pretty stubborn or not particularly bright.

 

Just heard from a neighbor (this may be relevant to you @Clefan98) that because he got an offer and interest, that surely a bigger one must be out there. Though, supposedly, he heard Sam still intends to get rid of them, so finger's crossed. 

 

But to your point, he tore down two homes at the end of our street that were condemned, and asked a lady walking by to take a video with him talking about how much he means to the community. So yeah - not a typical guy lol. 

On 11/8/2022 at 1:14 PM, KJP said:

Shoreway-Tower-8.jpg

 

Shoreway Tower plan rises
By Ken Prendergast / November 8, 2022

 

A conceptual proposal for a residential tower along the West Shoreway, overlooking Edgewater Park, got a little bit taller after it was first introduced to Cleveland’s City Planning Commission last April. Originally proposed to be 10 stories tall, the market-rate apartment building got bumped up to 12 stories and 138 feet tall which puts it over the 115-foot height restriction for that area’s zoning.

 

MORE

https://neo-trans.blog/2022/11/08/shoreway-tower-plan-rises/

 

I'm stunned that the Landmarks Commission actually approved this project with conditions that the rooftop design be studied further. The vote in support was 7-1.

 

 

 

"In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck

Just now, marty15 said:

That’s a beautiful building, and a pretty fair price for that location 

 

Agreed - I love it, unfortunately it Comes complete with an opioid-addicted lady who will harass you for money "for her grandkids" every time you walk by

38 minutes ago, YABO713 said:

 

Just heard from a neighbor (this may be relevant to you @Clefan98) that because he got an offer and interest, that surely a bigger one must be out there. Though, supposedly, he heard Sam still intends to get rid of them, so finger's crossed. 

 

But to your point, he tore down two homes at the end of our street that were condemned, and asked a lady walking by to take a video with him talking about how much he means to the community. So yeah - not a typical guy lol. 

 

LOL.

 

Actually one of the two demoed houses is owed by my investment team. We just happened to use the same contractor as Sam.

 

I'm not sure any deal can get done with him. We tried negotiating w/him last year but things turned sour after he threatened to hit one of my partners in the head with a baseball bat.

Edited by Clefan98

1 minute ago, Clefan98 said:

 

LOL.

 

Actually one of the two demoed houses is owed by my investment team. We happened to use the same contractor as Sam - it probably looked like he did both. We tried negotiating w/him last year but things turned sour after he threatened to hit one of my partners in the head with a baseball bat.

That's certainly an unusual negotiation strategy.

1 hour ago, Htsguy said:

Running a restaurant these days, especially for a small business owner, is a nightmare, even if you are busy (which actually maybe more of a nightmare)  If, as you state, he was offered a great deal, he must be pretty stubborn or not particularly bright.

 

He believes the CIA is out to get him, FWIW.

 

And, hey, the height-hating Landmarks Commission just OK'd a high-rise on Cleveland's waterfront! Can they get a group huzzah???

 

happy-dance.gif

 

 

"In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck

Well the vote was encouraging....7 to 1 in favor.  I did not watch the presentation and just caught the vote.  Glad to see chairman Trott did not vote no because of the height.  I will have to go back and see what her comments were in that regard.  I am sure she had some.  Michelle Anderson, the shining star of the commission, was the lone no vote.

Great and unexpected news on the vote!

 

Now I feel it's okay to say the top of the building looks ridiculous lol. 

37 minutes ago, surfohio said:

Now I feel it's okay to say the top of the building looks ridiculous lol. 

 

It looks like construction just stopped and gave up lol. But I do love the height so I won't complain! I don't mind having some unique buildings in Cleveland.

For the life of me I can't figure out this bias against height by our decision makers on these Boards. I understand the concept of a building not dwarfing everything around it. Blending in. But that shouldn't be a hard and fast rule every time. One perfect example is when views are part of the equation. New apartments in this area are able to take advantage of lake views ONLY when built tall enough. And last I read, water views are still desirable.
 
Besides the height issue I'm not a fan of this design. Especially the intentionally unfinished top. The best thing I can say is it's different, but in a bad way. And the finishes seem to need work. To sterile. I do like the courtyard and the deck/promanade though.

One way to have high rises blend in with each other is to build more high rises. It’ll all blend in soon enough.


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4 hours ago, surfohio said:

Great and unexpected news on the vote!

 

Now I feel it's okay to say the top of the building looks ridiculous lol. 

 

I laughed out loud at some of the reactions from the commissioners. Some liked it. Others didn't. One comment was that "It looked a tragedy had occurred there."

"In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck

I like the top. 

11 hours ago, Mendo said:

I like the top. 

Me too

Not even considering the design of the building, the rendering is very strange. Nice screen grab of the guy walking the dog (this is in hundreds, maybe thousands of architectural renderings across the globe).

22 minutes ago, w28th said:

Not even considering the design of the building, the rendering is very strange. Nice screen grab of the guy walking the dog (this is in hundreds, maybe thousands of architectural renderings across the globe).

I do wish there were better photos on the actually building. The angles we are given are disappointing. 

46 minutes ago, w28th said:

Nice screen grab of the guy walking the dog (this is in hundreds, maybe thousands of architectural renderings across the globe).

 

Haha like this guy:

 

 

I'm glad this got through but disappointed there are any conditions placed on it at all. Basically "Thanks for wanting to invest in our city. We know interest rates are 8% and the economy is about to go down the tubes, but let's put a couple more obstacles in your way, just for fun."

 

The top is awesome. Who cares if it looks "unfinished." The cladding is lovely. I hope it doesn't change. The height criticisms are inane too. The fact that any sophisticated person would say a 12-story building 2.5 miles away from public square is "too tall" is pretty alarming. The massing is great.

 

We're finally getting some really good and interesting architecture and these commission members criticize any thing that's too interesting. People ask why all new developments look the same. A big part of it is planning commissions clutching their pearls at the sight of anything that's not quite boring enough. These people must eat cheese and mayonnaise sandwiches on white bread for lunch every day.

 

/end rant

 

In any event, I'm so glad Joyce Huang is a part of these discussions. She seems to have the right kind of energy.

 

 

I have a few general questions I am hoping some of you might know more about.

 

I think KJP hinted at new BK plans a few months ago, mentioning that the land was going to transfer soon. I noticed the Happy’s Pizza building available for lease on LoopNet - wasn’t this originally part of the proposal along with the BK property?
 

Anyone know what’s going on with Walz/senior living? Haven’t seen anything happen over there for months now. 
 

And my last question is about this axe throwing place next to Happy Dog - I walked by and it looked like the space was available again, does anyone know if that project was cancelled?

 

58 minutes ago, Henke said:

I have a few general questions I am hoping some of you might know more about.

 

Anyone know what’s going on with Walz/senior living? Haven’t seen anything happen over there for months now. 
 

 

Check pg. 5-6 from https://cpl.org/wp-content/uploads/board/minutes-sept2022-reg-brd-mtg.pdf

My reading of that is that the construction bids came in much higher than what CPL and NN CDO (the community development organization, formerly detroit-shoreway cdc) expected and had set aside so now CDO is trying to come up with additional $ to fund it. (CPL is using $ from their reserves to cover their end)

Edited by skorasaurus
clarity

1 hour ago, Henke said:

And my last question is about this axe throwing place next to Happy Dog - I walked by and it looked like the space was available again, does anyone know if that project was cancelled?

I’d be shocked, the guy completed the build out of the space and was sitting in it showing how it works in the zoning meeting a few months ago

4 hours ago, BoomerangCleRes said:

I’d be shocked, the guy completed the build out of the space and was sitting in it showing how it works in the zoning meeting a few months ago


His other property on Bridge and 45th has been cited for unpermitted signs (religious signs all over the old church), using the church for unpermitted uses, etc. I'm wondering if the Detroit Ave project/property has similar issues.

image.thumb.png.d8e86335d9a5f05718284ee1ed95d12e.png

7 hours ago, downtownjoe said:


His other property on Bridge and 45th has been cited for unpermitted signs (religious signs all over the old church), using the church for unpermitted uses, etc. I'm wondering if the Detroit Ave project/property has similar issues.

image.thumb.png.d8e86335d9a5f05718284ee1ed95d12e.png


They have dozens of stone statutes currently in boxes behind that church. 
 

Literally keeping my man Jesus in a cage smh

14 hours ago, Henke said:

I have a few general questions I am hoping some of you might know more about.

 

I think KJP hinted at new BK plans a few months ago, mentioning that the land was going to transfer soon. I noticed the Happy’s Pizza building available for lease on LoopNet - wasn’t this originally part of the proposal along with the BK property?
 

Anyone know what’s going on with Walz/senior living? Haven’t seen anything happen over there for months now. 
 

And my last question is about this axe throwing place next to Happy Dog - I walked by and it looked like the space was available again, does anyone know if that project was cancelled?

There's nothing going on right now with the Burger King site, hopefully that changes soon. There was a person planning something over there, but the buyer turned out to be full of sh*t

58 minutes ago, zbaris87 said:

There's nothing going on right now with the Burger King site, hopefully that changes soon. There was a person planning something over there, but the buyer turned out to be full of sh*t

 

Buyer of the BK paid a huge amount of money for the site and I expect the owner of Happy Pizza would happily continue to lease unless they also got a big amount of money.  Combine that with the tight site that backs up to houses, and its a tough deal to make work.  

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