No one has bought the BK property. Someone had a purchase agreement but walked away from it.

59 minutes ago, KJP said:

No one has bought the BK property. Someone had a purchase agreement but walked away from it.

Hopefully the 8400 Lake development will improve the odds for this corner.  

13 minutes ago, Cleburger said:

Hopefully the 8400 Lake development will improve the odds for this corner.  

 

That and the Shoreway Tower and the library/apartments on Detroit, and if 8300 Baker Ave. gets sold/redeveloped too. It will sell. Just have to make sure that the current owner doesn't get impatient and put something silly on that lot, like a car wash.

1 hour ago, KJP said:

No one has bought the BK property. Someone had a purchase agreement but walked away from it.

 

I meant the folks that bought it in 2021 for $1.75mm....  

29 minutes ago, RMB said:

 

I meant the folks that bought it in 2021 for $1.75mm....  

 

My bad. I was referring to the Happy's Pizza. Roschman is primarily a fast food chain parent company. Considering their history, I fear they may be tempted to develop the BK site with another fast food biz if they don't get an offer they like.

Looks like the project on 65th by Il Rione may have fallen through. 
 

 

5 hours ago, Henke said:

Looks like the project on 65th by Il Rione may have fallen through. 
 

 

Shocker

We officially have two 🏗️'s up in Gordon Square! 

What's crazy is I drove by this at 3 p.m. today and looked to see if anything was happening yet. I saw no activity. Now there's this....

 

 

The last time I was in town I rode my bike through here - and got lost! So many new places lol. Lots of changes. 

 

**I recall a forumer bought a small industrial spot on or near this section of Lake. I distinctly remember they "sandblasted" the interior woodwork with pecan shells.  Looked really cool. Was wondering if that little building is still there. 

New sign on Station 73

 

Scene gave an update on the reopening of Banter today. They’re targeting Q1 of next year. 
 

the article also mentions a pop up at Gordon Green next week: https://www.clevescene.com/food-drink/banter-will-offer-classic-dishes-at-holiday-pop-up-at-gordon-green-dec-19-20-41015785

 

I also hadn’t seen these renderings that they shared:

 

 

From Northwest Neighborhoods newsletter: Nice to see the Tributary spot replaced, as well as an ice cream shop in Sweet Moses wake.

 

“Two new businesses are coming soon, with assistance from Northwest Neighborhoods! Old 86 will be a quirky bar opening at 5304 Detroit Ave, and Lake Erie Scoops will be an ice cream shop by Sweet Moses alum Jen at 6604 Detroit Ave (in the Gordon Square Arcade).”

Just wish Fount never left. These neighborhoods need more than just places you get fat or s**t faced every weekend. Non-food retail just can never survive in the city proper like other cities. 

36 minutes ago, AsDustinFoxWouldSay said:

Just wish Fount never left. These neighborhoods need more than just places you get fat or s**t faced every weekend. Non-food retail just can never survive in the city proper like other cities. 

There’s actually a pretty decent mix in GS. And most storefronts are occupied.

On 12/22/2022 at 4:09 PM, AsDustinFoxWouldSay said:

Just wish Fount never left. These neighborhoods need more than just places you get fat or s**t faced every weekend. Non-food retail just can never survive in the city proper like other cities. 

On the bright side, a clothing store has already filled Fount's space. Hope you and friends/family go and support them!

Edited December 24, 20222 yr by Clefan98

On 12/22/2022 at 4:09 PM, AsDustinFoxWouldSay said:

Just wish Fount never left. These neighborhoods need more than just places you get fat or s**t faced every weekend. Non-food retail just can never survive in the city proper like other cities. 

Unfortunately, I believe their new lease in Croker Park precluded them from having another store location within a certain distance of Crocker Park, and the original location was too close.

i was at the Fount in Pinecrest recently...the owner there was pretyy much saying the reason we were in Gordon square was because of the TV show.  She had nice things to say about Gordon Square, but not sure they were long for it.  I wish they were!  sometimes you have to be like Heinens downtown and say we are going to do this to be the leaders here.

50 minutes ago, BelievelandD1 said:

i was at the Fount in Pinecrest recently...the owner there was pretyy much saying the reason we were in Gordon square was because of the TV show.  She had nice things to say about Gordon Square, but not sure they were long for it.  I wish they were!  sometimes you have to be like Heinens downtown and say we are going to do this to be the leaders here.

Ya. I can see that, though I'd have to believe Gordon Square is pretty close to critical mass of people with decent income living in that area. 

13-story Shoreway tower variances including for height were approved unanimously by BZA. Article coming.

On 11/9/2022 at 8:06 PM, YABO713 said:

 

The Big Egg is currently putting up new siding... which can only mean one thing... 

 

Sam has once again blown up another deal and will NOT be selling his parcels. *Punches the air in absolute rage*

 

Check this out...Sam must've changed his mind because he just officially listed his parcels (A,B,C,D,1) which consists of the Big Egg and a couple other nearby lots.

 

Know anyone w/3.6M laying around?

 

 

Shoreway Tower clears another hurdle
By Ken Prendergast / January 3, 2023

 

One of the most important remaining hurdles for a proposed high-rise apartment building overlooking Edgewater Park was finally cleared after multiple postponements. But today, Cleveland’s Board of Zoning Appeals (BZA) unanimously approved four variances to the city’s zoning code necessary to build the project on a parking lot at the north end of West 78th Street. Today’s action puts the project a big step closer to construction.

 

MORE:

https://neo-trans.blog/2023/01/03/shoreway-tower-clears-another-hurdle/

Blech!  This design failure brings to mind the perpetually unfinished skyline of impoverished areas in Peru. "Peruvians finish their homes just enough to be comfortable to live in but not all the way, so they can avoid taxes."

 

 

 

 

Edited January 4, 20232 yr by ExPatClevGuy

2 hours ago, ExPatClevGuy said:

Blech!  This design failure brings to mind the perpetually unfinished skyline of impoverished areas in Peru. "Peruvians finish their homes just enough to be comfortable to live in but not all the way, so they can avoid taxes."

 

 

 

 

Strongly disagree.

9 hours ago, ExPatClevGuy said:

Blech!  This design failure brings to mind the perpetually unfinished skyline of impoverished areas in Peru. "Peruvians finish their homes just enough to be comfortable to live in but not all the way, so they can avoid taxes."

 

 

 

 

 

 

This.   Tests my commitment in principle to the idea that property owners should be able to pick their designs almost as much as Jenga-Nucleus did.

I agree with @ExPatClevGuy - it does look unfinished.  Maybe if they have lighting on that top part it will help, though lighting won't help during the time it matters most--during the day. 

I just hope they hire better window guys than Intro. 

13 minutes ago, bumsquare said:

I just hope they hire better window guys than Intro. 

and given how close they are to busy railroad tracks, I would hope they do a good job with insulating against sound, too.

29 minutes ago, bumsquare said:

I just hope they hire better window guys than Intro. 

Are they having problems with the windows at intro?. I know there have been some postings regarding thin walls between the apartments and lack of insulation but I wasn’t aware of a window problem. What’s the scoop?

4 minutes ago, Htsguy said:

Are they having problems with the windows at intro?. I know there have been some postings regarding thin walls between the apartments and lack of insulation but I wasn’t aware of a window problem. What’s the scoop?

 

9 hours ago, bjk said:

and given how close they are to busy railroad tracks, I would hope they do a good job with insulating against sound, too.

 

With those tuning forks sticking out on top this is an excellent point haha. 

22 hours ago, ExPatClevGuy said:

Blech!  This design failure brings to mind the perpetually unfinished skyline of impoverished areas in Peru. "Peruvians finish their homes just enough to be comfortable to live in but not all the way, so they can avoid taxes."

 

This kind of construction in developing generations is often multi-generational.   They are purposely built to expand upward as the family grows and can afford more, or expands via marriage, etc.    

@Cleburger  Untrue.  I invite you to visit Puno, Peru as I have, and to study this matter as I have.  The government does not charge property tax on unfinished structures.

Regardless of intent though, it creates a blight on the Peruvian landscape that I would not wish upon Cleveland. 

Perhaps the principal architect of the Shoreway tower is Peruvian and this is a loving homage, but I don't believe it adds that winning touch to the view beheld by Edgewater beach-goers.

 

NOTE:  Maybe if the developer also installs a tall decorative crane atop this tower it will forever look like an exciting new development project - like there is perpetual construction progress happening in Cleveland. 😆

Edited January 5, 20232 yr by ExPatClevGuy

18 minutes ago, ExPatClevGuy said:

@Cleburger  Untrue.  I invite you to visit Puno, Peru as I have, and to study this matter as I have.  The government does not charge property tax on unfinished structures.

Regardless of intent though, it creates a blight on the Peruvian landscape that I would not wish upon Cleveland. 

Perhaps the principal architect of the Shoreway tower is Peruvian and this is a loving homage, but I don't believe it adds that winning touch to the view beheld by Edgewater beach-goers.

 

NOTE:  Maybe if the developer also installs a tall decorative crane atop this tower it will forever look like an exciting new development project - like there is perpetual construction progress happening in Cleveland. 😆

Perhaps this is what you've seen in Peru due to local tax laws, but I can tell you from traveling through most of the developing world, including the favelas of Brazil, that many of these unfinished buildings are purposely built to this end, with an eye towards the future. 

 

https://www.archdaily.com/531253/case-study-the-unspoken-rules-of-favela-construction

22 minutes ago, ExPatClevGuy said:

@Cleburger  Untrue.  I invite you to visit Puno, Peru as I have, and to study this matter as I have.  The government does not charge property tax on unfinished structures.

Regardless of intent though, it creates a blight on the Peruvian landscape that I would not wish upon Cleveland. 

Perhaps the principal architect of the Shoreway tower is Peruvian and this is a loving homage, but I don't believe it adds that winning touch to the view beheld by Edgewater beach-goers.

 

NOTE:  Maybe if the developer also installs a tall decorative crane atop this tower it will forever look like an exciting new development project - like there is perpetual construction progress happening in Cleveland. 😆

 

You keep bringing up Peru as your lone example. I can assure you this developer is not trying to or won't be able to avoid property taxes on this project. You cannot compare Cleveland, Ohio to (in your words) impoverished Peru where they purposely make it look like crap to avoid paying taxes. We get it, you hate the design of the building. 

UrbanOhio arguing and tearing itself apart...I gather that's exactly what the architect wants ;-) 

49 minutes ago, GREGinPARMA said:

I can assure you this developer is not trying to or won't be able to avoid property taxes on this project.

 

Besides the abatement and TIF. 🙂

 

Anywho it should be a nice looking building. Hopefully the first of a growing skyline along the shore way. 

I'm surprised we haven't seen more tall buildings like this here. Guaranteed unencumbered view of Lake Erie forever given the only thing between these streets and the lake is a large park which isn't going anywhere. 

 

Hoping this is first of many mid-rise buildings here so we can get those sweet pics standing in Edgewater Park looking up the hill at all the nice buildings overlooking the shoreline.

On 1/3/2023 at 8:39 PM, ExPatClevGuy said:

Blech!  This design failure brings to mind the perpetually unfinished skyline of impoverished areas in Peru. "Peruvians finish their homes just enough to be comfortable to live in but not all the way, so they can avoid taxes."

 

 

 

 

 

When I’ve been to Peru I always joke that they build their house a cement block at a time…as in, hey family, today I got my paycheck and bought another cement block, that puts us only 200 blocks away from finishing the house.

 

Back on topic: I don’t mind the look of this building, but my thing is why must it be grey. Would it kill designers to use color, even if just limited to blue glass? Why must everything be so dull?

 

Anyway, regardless of the nitpicking, great addition to the Edgewater skyline.

Edited January 5, 20232 yr by ragarcia

I have a question for anyone more knowledgeable than myself (a low bar). In the recent Fast Company article, there’s a quote about the Detroit Shoreway neighborhood: 

 

“A neighborhood called Detroit Shoreway has the basic assets of a 15-minute city, but needs around 18,000 more housing units strategically located near public transit.”

 

If this building is adding 95 units, Welleon/Waverly & Oak is adding 122, and W 58 is adding 30… how do we get to 18,000?? If my math is adding up, that would be close to 200 new projects. 

 

I’m all for it, but I guess I’m wondering if 18,000 is a realistic number, if anyone has more background on where that came from, or what timeline we might expect to see that kind of growth. The past year or two have felt like the neighborhood was really starting to see growth, but is this just the tip of the iceberg?

Edited January 5, 20232 yr by Henke

A ton of units could be added around the rapid stations and strategically large parcels. The Cudell-West Blvd parking lot is around 68k sq ft. Assuming an average apartment size of 850 sq ft, you could add 400 units at just that site with 5 levels of residential over some commercial (or covered parking, if we're being realistic). Realistically, there should be a 10 story building on a site like that, and there is a local precedent with the CMHA tower at West Blvd/Detroit.

The American Car Wash on Detroit looks to be around 16k sq. ft. Using the same average unit size, you could do a 5-over-1 on that site and get 90+ units. Family Dollar could be redeveloped to be ground-level retail with residential above and you could add 200+ units easily.

With those three examples you've added almost 700 new apartments (over 1k if a proper tower was built at the rapid station).

If you start considering key parts of Madison Ave it opens up a lot of potential. Madison/W74 is directly on the #25 bus and is a 0.35 mile walk to Detroit and the #26. W85/Madison is even closer to Detroit and has a significant amount of undeveloped land. I think it's feasible to get to the critical mass needed without drastically changing the character of the neighborhood, as long as the projects are strategic and of decent quality.

Edited January 5, 20232 yr by jws

1 hour ago, Henke said:

I have a question for anyone more knowledgeable than myself (a low bar). In the recent Fast Company article, there’s a quote about the Detroit Shoreway neighborhood: 

 

“A neighborhood called Detroit Shoreway has the basic assets of a 15-minute city, but needs around 18,000 more housing units strategically located near public transit.”

 

If this building is adding 95 units, Welleon/Waverly & Oak is adding 122, and W 58 is adding 30… how do we get to 18,000?? If my math is adding up, that would be close to 200 new projects. 

 

I’m all for it, but I guess I’m wondering if 18,000 is a realistic number, if anyone has more background on where that came from, or what timeline we might expect to see that kind of growth. The past year or two have felt like the neighborhood was really starting to see growth, but is this just the tip of the iceberg?

 

I believe they're talking about demand for units needed between now and 2040. There was a housing study released a year or so ago by a Philadelphia firm that projected around that number for the communities located inside of the Northwest Neighborhoods CDC.

Edited January 5, 20232 yr by Clefan98

3 hours ago, Clefan98 said:

 

I believe they're talking about demand for units needed between now and 2040. There was a housing study released a year or so ago by a Philadelphia firm that projected around that number for the communities located inside of the Northwest Neighborhoods CDC.

 

Yeah that number caught my attention too. After reading my first thought was "according to what metric?" For all we know they could be defining a 15-minute city on the basis of an urban area with far higher population density. With all the effort it took to increase the downtown CLE population to 20,000 people... the idea of throwing 18,000 more units just into Detroit Shoreway seems kind of laughable. 

 

Edited January 6, 20232 yr by ASP1984

I was curious so I looked up how many housing units we even have in the city and the census for 2020 showed this:

 

 

Didn't break it down past that. But saying a neighborhood needs to add 10% of all of Cleveland's housing stock seems like it may be just a little out of reach. Neighborhood would have to get real dense. According to DCA there's only 9,000 units in downtown. So imagine fitting two downtowns' worth of apartments into it. 

 

I'm sure they had their reasoning but I think making it more walkable successfully wouldn't require nearly as many units. 

12 hours ago, dwolfi01 said:

I didn't break it down past that. But saying a neighborhood needs to add 10% of all of Cleveland's housing stock seems like it may be just a little out of reach. Neighborhood would have to get real dense. According to DCA there's only 9,000 units in downtown. So imagine fitting two downtowns' worth of apartments into it. 

 

 

 

I can easily imagine fitting 18,000 units inside the boundaries of the Northwest Neighborhoods CDC between now and 2040.

 

Note: The Northwest Neighborhoods CDC includes much more than just the Detroit Shoreway neighborhood. This area already has double the population of downtown, and it's growth % has just recently surpassed downtown's. Prior to 2020, downtown was the fastest growing section of the region, now it is the census tracts located in Ohio City and northern Gordon Sq.

 

Northwest Neighborhoods CDC map -->

https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/viewer?mid=1XIg5q6zSx1xSfdDDsDS6XwElbxStlLCP&ll=41.482790336258674%2C-81.74494957911377&z=14

 

 

 

The 18, 000 population figure for NW Neighborhoods came from a transit-oriented development study which showed that 25-35 housing units per acre was the minimum population density needed to be a transit-supportive neighborhood.

 

https://neo-trans.blog/2022/09/06/greater-cleveland-tod-initiative-on-track/

 

Cleveland City Planning Manager Matt Moss said that Cleveland’s zoning makes most transit-supportive land uses illegal. In a new TOD report, he zeroed in on the city’s Detroit-Shoreway neighborhood for an example. Despite significant development since 2015 that added more than 1,200 housing units to this stable west-side neighborhood and that has 86 percent of its land area within a five-minute walk of a stop on a high-frequency bus and rail transit route, it still falls well short of being transit-supportive. He cited Federal Transit Administration data which considers a density of 25-35 housing units per acre as supportive of high-frequency transit. Cleveland uses 30 units per acres as its threshold.

 

I don't have access, but saw this pop up on social media:

 

https://www.crainscleveland.com/real-estate/developer-buys-premium-metals-site-clevelands-west-side

 

Who's the buyer?  I know several have attempted to buy in the past.  

9 minutes ago, RE Developer In Training said:

I don't have access, but saw this pop up on social media:

 

https://www.crainscleveland.com/real-estate/developer-buys-premium-metals-site-clevelands-west-side

 

Who's the buyer?  I know several have attempted to buy in the past.  

 

From the article:

Quote

An affiliate of TurnDev, a joint venture between CrossCountry Mortgage CEO Ron Leonhardt Jr. and local attorney Jon Pinney, bought the Premium Metals Inc. complex in early January, public records show. The property, at 6001 Breakwater Ave., sits just south of the Edison at Gordon Square apartments and the Breakwater Bluffs townhomes.

 

Cuyahoga County records don't reveal a sale price. The transaction was structured as an entity sale, in which a buyer acquires a limited liability company that owns real estate instead of purchasing the property outright. Investors take that approach to keep deals quiet and, in some cases, avoid property-tax increases.

 

Longtime owner Bob Pelles, the president of Premium Metals, put the site up for sale last year. The asking price was $3.85 million, according to listing materials from the Cushman & Wakefield-Cresco Real Estate brokerage.

 

5 hours ago, Luke_S said:

 

From the article:

 

Looks like TurnDev primarily has retail and self storage properties, although their website does list one multifamily project that’s in development in Ohio City. Hopefully they’ll be adding this location to the Multifamily list!

My own meager contribution

 

 

Lakefront properties change hands

By Ken Prendergast / January 12, 2023

 

In the past week, two significant property sales occurred near the lakefront in Cleveland’s Gordon Square neighborhood. While both occurred on different sides of Breakwater Avenue, one sale was of a former light-industrial property that was redeveloped with residential a little more than five years ago. The other sale was of a light-industrial property that has been destined for years to become residential and may now be on a faster ride in that direction.

 

READ MORE

https://neo-trans.blog/2023/01/12/lakefront-properties-change-hands/