I'm involved in a group project for a communication class at UC.  We have to participate in a discusion (in front of an audience) about the popularity of Cincinnati's CBD and Over the Rhine (as far as a place to live, dine, shop, enjoy nightlife, own a business, etc.).  The point of the project is to discuss a problem within the city of Cincinnati.  The thing is, the popularity of these areas seems to be on the rise, so information hasn't really been that easy to come buy.  I am approaching the issue with this question in mind; "What can Cincinnati do to increase the popularity downtown and OTR?"  While popularity may be higher than it was  a few years ago, what can be down to get more people there and what is keeping people away now.  I heard from a friend that this is the place to bring my question to get some good feedback.  Any help would be much appreciated.  Thanks.  Jason 

You might want to check out various threads for downtown and OTR.

 

Downtown Cincinnati will gain more popularity when they implement the streetcar system that connects downtown and OTR to UC.

 

More music venues, and a downtown movie theater or even a place like Jillian's that we used to have in NKY would attract young people downtown. If they could counterfeit a Jillians, it would do wonders imo. That place had everything.

David's right about the streetcar.  Another thing that would help downtown is just attracting more residents.  Right now, there is a shortage of quality apartments downtown, and most of the condos are very expensive.  An increase in apartment availability and sub-$200k condos would encourage downtown employees to live there as well, which would increase foot traffic in the evenings and enhance the vibrancy of downtown.

 

OTR is another story.  It REALLY needs that streetcar.  The whole neighborhood was built around a rail system that was later ripped out.  It just can't support population in the levels that it needs to with automobiles being the primary method of transportation.  It may make small strides, but without streetcars and/or light rail, major redevelopment just isn't feasible, which is a shame since it's one of the most extensive and important historic districts in the country.

I'm involved in a group project for a communication class at UC. We have to participate in a discusion (in front of an audience) about the popularity of Cincinnati's CBD and Over the Rhine (as far as a place to live, dine, shop, enjoy nightlife, own a business, etc.). The point of the project is to discuss a problem within the city of Cincinnati. The thing is, the popularity of these areas seems to be on the rise, so information hasn't really been that easy to come buy. I am approaching the issue with this question in mind; "What can Cincinnati do to increase the popularity downtown and OTR?" While popularity may be higher than it was a few years ago, what can be down to get more people there and what is keeping people away now. I heard from a friend that this is the place to bring my question to get some good feedback. Any help would be much appreciated. Thanks. Jason

 

Streetcar check out the video at www.citystreetcar.net , it illustrates the cost of parking on housing affordability. 

Right now I think Downtown/OTR are doing great with people who are inclined to like urban areas (young people, creative class, etc).  There is a major perception problem with those living in the suburbs who used to frequent the downtown area as a shopping, entertainment, and dining destination in previous decades.  The proliferation of suburban retail and entertainment options has hurt the luster of downtown options, but the uniqueness of those options is still there.

 

This uniqueness needs to be made evident, the actual safety of the area needs to be made evident, the progress needs to be made evident, and once that is done, then maybe minds will change.  Right now much of the negative sentiment towards the Downtown/OTR area is either 1) public safety related or 2) related to the perceived ineptitude of government (see The Banks, 5th & Race, Fountain Square renovation, streetcar).  If local government can illustrate that they can walk and chew gum at the same time then this will also go a long way.  Major and visible progress on The Banks coupled with the implementation of the streetcar and continued success in OTR might just silence those negative Nancies for a good long time.

Another thing is the huge success of the redesign Fountain Square and all the restaurants/business it has spurred. If you have to focus on a problem, maybe how the recession is or has affected those surrounding businesses. I think the Gateway Quarter business district is unique and worth focusing on too. A lot good things are happening and momentum will be the key. Good luck with the project.

the biggest thing for me is affordable apartments.  If downtown wants young people, affordable apartments are key, and we're seeing that in the old Enquirer building renovation. 

 

Streetcar is a MUST.

 

Surface parking lot development.  They are unsightly and can create the feeling of being isolated and unsafe for pedestrians. 

 

More gay bars.  :) 

less gay bars.

 

i didn't read what we're talking about, but less gay bars is always the answer.

less gay bars.

 

i didn't read what we're talking about, but less gay bars is always the answer.

 

you jerk! 

 

But its true though, the gays are the best at urban renaissance.  See C'Bus and Short North, Indy and Mass Ave, Cland and Tremont, Chicago and Boystown, NYC and Chelsea, on and on and on and on. 

 

you gays and your professional jobs and no kids!

bet you wish you were one.  :)

Nah, I'm good

 

Oh and I think Cincinnati would be stronger with a younger demographic if a real entertainment district developed. Backstage and Fountain Square cater to a different crowd. There are some young bars downtown (mostly all chains) but they aren't all together, like a Mainstrasse, which creates a destination. Not my style, but something that I feel downtown is missing.

 

And of course streetcar, more affordable apartments, and more attractive young ladies

bet you wish you were one.  :)

 

OOP!

 

you gays and your professional jobs and no kids!

 

I know...we're doing our part to keeping the economy going!  :P

With the requests for more bars for young, gay, whoever,  I think having late night food options to support those activities would be a nice plus.  I can't even tell you how many times after a night of drinking I craved diner type food (pancakes always taste good at 2am after you have been boozing it up).---and the places I went were always pack.  Just a late night hang-out with free wireless. Cincinnati doesn't offer this option downtown.

jboogie,

 

To what particular group are you targeting your question?  Suburbanites?  Baby boomers?  People relocating from different cities?  Easy girls who like to party?

 

I hate to make the question more difficult than it is, but "popularity" means a lot of different things to a lot of different people.  I fear that the question might be so broad that it's going to produce ideas that are all over the map.

I know it is very broad, but that's okay.  The assignment is a group discussion on the question I posted above.  I just need to come up with as many ideas as I can, then we will define it and narrow it down at the beginning of the discussion.  I know it's kind of weird and not very simple to answer.  That is why I posted here, just to get some thoughts and see what the question means to different people.  I guess I'm not targeting a certain group as much as I am trying to get ideas as to what might keep people from every group from coming downtown. 

I know it is very broad, but that's okay. The assignment is a group discussion on the question I posted above. I just need to come up with as many ideas as I can, then we will define it and narrow it down at the beginning of the discussion. I know it's kind of weird and not very simple to answer. That is why I posted here, just to get some thoughts and see what the question means to different people. I guess I'm not targeting a certain group as much as I am trying to get ideas as to what might keep people from every group from coming downtown.

 

coming downtown or living donwtown?

 

That video was helpful.  I am going to use a lot of the comparisons with Portland.  Thanks.

I have a feeling this isn't the answer that you're looking for, but both.  I should say that I have a feeling that the discussion is going to lean more towards coming downtown,

In my opinion (and some of these have already been stated):

 

- An actual "Entertainment District." Sure, we have a lot of new bars and what not kind of popping up in the same area, but a closed off area. Closed off as in no automobiles. Pedestrian only ... and we need to have an open container rule. I think they should take the backstage district and run with it instead of leaving it on the backburner. Add cool, modern lighting within the BSD and install outdoor HDTV's for games, etc. Install hanging colorful lights. Colors effect people's moods. Close off Walnut St. in between 7th and 6th and Vine in between 6th and 7th. and 7th, in between Vine and Walnut.

 

- Connect the dots with rail, obviously a streetcar. The younger generation doesn't want to drive. Connect our popular destinations with a rail line.

 

- Extend last call hours. 2:30 AM may seem late to a lot of people, but if folks aren't ready to leave, why make them? ... and if we had, cheap/reliable/convenient/clean/safe streetcars running no one needs to worry about DUI's, etc. I've ran into this problem over and over ... ex: a friend is visiting from out of town, we haven't seen each other in a long time, that Friday or Saturday night is going to be kind of special. We don't want to have to call it a night because of a drinking law. If someone thinks age plays a role in this, then they haven't been to Chicago or NYC. There are many 30-ish folks out at 3 and 4 in the morning, they're used to it and those hours.

 

- We need the Banks completed. Let's face it, we have an amazing asset to our city -the river. It's what built this city. During the summer months, you will see anywhere from 2 to 20 boats on the river. It's becoming more and more popular ... let's compliment this asset with an area that will allow you to park the boat and grab a drink or a bite to eat ...

 

- A great park system. Our generation loves and appreciates a well planned and amenity-filled park. The Central Riverfront Park should fill this need, but it's not here yet and so a lack of this effects our perception.

 

- And finally, perception. PERCEPTION, PERCEPTION, PERCEPTION ... you can't say it enough. We are our own worst enemy and it has everything to do with momentum. We change this, we change the city.

Last Call is State Law

Last Call is State Law

 

Well then, it would be better with it was changed to 4 or 5. ;)

Last Call is State Law

 

Any idea how Louisville gets around that then?  Their bars are open until 4am, whereas just about everywhere else in KY is 2:30.  Unless it isn't a state law in KY.

I think that having greater variety of things to do would help downtown.  Right now, the options consist mainly of upscale dining, theatre, and bars.  I'd like to see a bowling alley, an 8+ table pool hall, movie theater, and anything else that would bring people downtown and keep them there for several hours.  Also, those 3 types of places would lend themselves well to multi-stop trips.  I could definitely see myself going downtown to shoot pool, but stopping somewhere to have dinner first, or seeing a movie and grabbing a drink afterwards.

If they could counterfeit a Jillians, it would do wonders imo. That place had everything.

 

Worst suggestion ever.  These places serve two purposes:

 

1. For tourists who don't know and/or care about where the interesting places actually are.

 

2.  For people who don't live in or near an urban area with many different options.

If they could counterfeit a Jillians, it would do wonders imo. That place had everything.

 

Worst suggestion ever.  These places serve two purposes:

 

1. For tourists who don't know and/or care about where the interesting places actually are.

 

2.  For people who don't live in or near an urban area with many different options.

 

That's your opinion.

 

Jillians had a bowling alley, a club, arcade, billiards, restaurant, etc. Excuse me for supporting something like that  :roll:

Great thoughts.  Thanks a lot.

If they could counterfeit a Jillians, it would do wonders imo. That place had everything.

 

Worst suggestion ever. These places serve two purposes:

 

1. For tourists who don't know and/or care about where the interesting places actually are.

 

2. For people who don't live in or near an urban area with many different options.

 

That's your opinion.

 

Jillians had a bowling alley, a club, arcade, billiards, restaurant, etc. Excuse me for supporting something like that :roll:

 

I fully support all of those things. I prefer them as individual parts of a neighborhood rather than a pre-packaged corporate version.  Yep, just my opinion, not trying to sound like an ass.

Alright no hard feelings :)

Last Call is State Law

 

I don't think it's enforced. Can't cities pass exemptions to the law? I'm pretty sure that's how Miami keeps going until 5am. Most of Florida is 2am. I know of bars in Ohio that don't close until 3:30am. There also are after hours venues too (though I think they're illegal judging by the open drug use). Either way, the state shouldn't force bars to close at all. Let them stay open as long as there is business. Kids want to party all night or until they hook-up and/or throw up. :|

 

A later last call would help, but no, cities can't do their own liquor laws.  Your rights to sell various things at various times are all based on your license type.  There are dozens of them but none with a later last call.

 

It would be interesting if cities could change those, or if they could at least have defined zones with looser restrictions.  Open container too.  Prohibition started in Ohio and came from the countryside.  That countryside is still in power.  The big cities fought against prohibition.  It was one reason they wanted home rule.  They got it but only with state liquor control, so that the countryside could control that for everyone.     

I dont live in Cincy or visit the city often; when I do, I usually gravitate toward downtown and OTR.

 

A major issues is the perception of crime. I often ask people about places they avoid and why, and OTR/Vine Street often comes up. Usually it's family members, media stories, or personal experience (one guy said a 'black homeless guy smashed my car windows with a hammer when I stopped at a stoplight'). Gays will settle in places like that when (a) housing prices force young gays into marginal areas and when the environment seems welcoming. In the case of the Cincy region as a whole, neither of those seem to be the case with OTR.

 

BTW, what do you mean by 'popularity'? How do you define it?

 

 

I thought of one more thing.  The city desperately needs to do something about the panhandling, both passive and aggressive.  The only places I ever get panhandled are downtown and OTR, and it's really off putting.  I'm someone who likes downtown and even I think "why do I come here" occasionally when this happens. 

I think its a problem in Corryville and OTR (especially Main St.). Not anywhere else though, at least I haven't noticed it.

It is a problem downtown==especially once you get outside of the Fountain Square area.  When I lived at 7th and Race, I constantly got asked for money.  I even had a guy call up to my apartment and ask for money to pick up his prescriptions from Walgreens--it was an emergency he said.  It was 9pm on a Sunday night---Walgreens was closed.  I told him that and hung up.

 

This was more of a nuisance for me than anything.  I never felt frightened or scared.  I just told them no and moved on.

 

But some safety classes for people to strengthen there urban living skills could be beneficial--keep safe is a big issue for some.

Agreed.  I usually walk to Fountain Square from NKY and I routinely get stopped along the way.  It's definitely not threatening, but it's annoying.  I never give them money, because it isn't going to really help them and I'd just be encouraging the phenomen, but I always feel guilty about it, which usually ruins the next 10 minutes of my walk.  If the goal is to get non-urbanites to come downtown, spend money, and enjoy the experience, panhandling has to be eliminated.  By this, I also include the people who sit near GABP before and after Reds games, begging for change.  Even though they rarely address passerbys, that's just not something that people want to expose their kids to.

... that's just not something that people want to expose their kids to.

 

Heaven forbid!

^I'm not saying they shouldn't have a thicker skin, just that it's a contributing factor to their negative view of downtown.  It's hard to argue that it enhances the downtown experience in any way.

^I'm not saying they shouldn't have a thicker skin, just that it's a contributing factor to their negative view of downtown. It's hard to argue that it enhances the downtown experience in any way.

 

Someone has made this argument

 

Sidewalk

by Mitchell Duneier

 

Publisher Comments:

An exceptional ethnography marked by clarity and candor, Sidewalk takes us into the socio-cultural environment of those who, though often seen as threatening or unseemly, work day after day on “the blocks” of one of New York’s most diverse neighborhoods. Sociologist Duneier, author of Slim’s Table, offers an accessible and compelling group portrait of several poor black men who make their livelihoods on the sidewalks of Greenwich Village selling secondhand goods, panhandling, and scavenging books and magazines.

 

Duneier spent five years with these individuals, and in Sidewalk he argues that, contrary to the opinion of various city officials, they actually contribute significantly to the order and well-being of the Village. An important study of the heart and mind of the street, Sidewalk also features an insightful afterword by longtime book vendor Hakim Hasan. This fascinating study reveals today’s urban life in all its complexity: its vitality, its conflicts about class and race, and its surprising opportunities for empathy among strangers.

^I'm not saying they shouldn't have a thicker skin, just that it's a contributing factor to their negative view of downtown. It's hard to argue that it enhances the downtown experience in any way.

 

I agree with you in general. Although my experience has been that even the best cities have their share of homeless and pandhandlers. San Francisco may be an extreme example, but I've never seen so many bums before in my life, and SF is one of the greatest cities on the planet IMO.

 

I think people need to get over the panhandlers, just ignore them.