Rep. Austria gets right with history: FDR didn't start Depression

Wednesday, February 11, 2009 - 3:24 AM

By Darrel Rowland, THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH

 

Freshman U.S. Rep. Steve Austria conceded yesterday that President Franklin D. Roosevelt did not cause the Great Depression.

 

In a one-page e-mail, the Beavercreek Republican wrote: "I did not mean to imply in any way that President Roosevelt was responsible for putting us into the Depression, but rather was trying to make the point that Roosevelt's attempt to use significant spending to get us out of the Depression did not have the desired effect.  Roosevelt did not put us into the Depression, but rather his policies could not pull the nation out of the recession."

 

http://www.dispatchpolitics.com/live/content/local_news/stories/2009/02/11/copy/AUSTRIA_RECANTS.ART_ART_02-11-09_B8_0PCS8TG.html?adsec=politics&sid=101

 

This guy is an absolute and utter buffoon.  How can someone who does not know when the GD started be in congress? 

The same way a buffoon said that Roosevelt talked to the people about the depression on TV, then got elected vice-president!

The same way a buffoon said that Roosevelt talked to the people about the depression on TV, then got elected vice-president!

 

Who and what are you talking about?

He's talking about Joe Biden, who basically did the exact same thing - he made statements that FDR was president when the great depression started.

 

Regardless, there are plenty of economists who argue that FDR's policies greatly worsened and lengthened the depression. Most professors absolutely idolize FDR and the New Deal, so that argument rarely makes it into the textbooks. However there are tons of respected economists who suggest that, although it was trade barriers and interest rates that started the depression, it was FDR's spending that really extended it.

 

Of course, this is just a perfect mirror to the current economic debate. Can you spend your way out of a recession? FDR, Keynes, and Obama firmly think so.

There are tons of respected economists, Nobel Prize winning ones at that (Krugman), who believe the Depression lenghthened because FDR did not spend enough.

 

I don't understand the free market argument.  The unregulated free market is what got us here.  Yes, it is the best system, but it has it down turns.  When these down turns occur, the government is the last entity to pump life back into it. 

The same way a buffoon said that Roosevelt talked to the people about the depression on TV, then got elected vice-president!

 

Sure VP Joe Biden got it wrong when he said FDR talked to the american people on television.  He, of course, meant to say FDR talked to american people via radio - the famous "Fireside Chats" (if you don't know about it, ask your grandparents).  Which goes to prove that Biden's a tongue-tied buffoon (like we didn't know this already).  Which makes Biden's comment a harmless error.

 

That is not the same as Austria's statement that FDR's policies caused the Great Depression.  Austria's comment was not a harmless error or mis-statement.  It was an honest statement of his belief, or rather he was parroting the radical right's belief that FDR's policies to fight the Great Depression were wrong/socialist/communist.  The radical right believes that FDR was wrong - and thus Social Security is wrong - and thus Medicare is wrong - and thus government intervention in markets is wrong - and thus government regulation of business is wrong - and so on and so on. 

 

To show how out-of-the-mainstream and discredited this belief is, simply look at how quickly Rep. Austria's "staff" issued an apology/clarification email to "explain" their boss' beliefs. 

^And that is what is so bizarre about this whole thing.  Biden makes a mistake about something quite trivial.  OK, FDR used the radio, not the TV. 

 

The difference is that Austria's statements are patently false and deliberately misleading.  It's revisionism on the highest scale, and it scares me that a powerful political party is seemingly resorting to such tactics. 

They'll never stop.  The philosophies they preach are very lucrative to a certain class of people.  That class will always be able to afford mouthpieces.  The philosophy will always have adherents beyond that class because it states that if you disagree, you're a lazy pansy.

I emailed Austria and told him he was a disgrace to the Buckeye State and that he should be ashamed for engaging in such divisive tactics.

^And that is what is so bizarre about this whole thing.  Biden makes a mistake about something quite trivial.  OK, FDR used the radio, not the TV. 

 

The difference is that Austria's statements are patently false and deliberately misleading.  It's revisionism on the highest scale, and it scares me that a powerful political party is seemingly resorting to such tactics. 

 

For the record, Biden's exact quote was:

 

“When the stock market crashed, Franklin D. Roosevelt got on the television and didn’t just talk about the, you know, the princes of greed. He said, ‘Look, here’s what happened.’”

 

To me, the major error wasn't that there was no television at the time (though that should have been pretty obvious).  The huge mistake was that FDR wasn't even president in 1929, and he wouldn't become president until 4 years later. 

 

I have no idea what Austria's motivation was, nor am I trying to defend him.  I'd honestly never heard of the guy until just now.  But let's not pretend that Joe Biden merely misspoke by saying TV when he meant radio.  That was a pretty major gaffe that revealed how little he actually knows about the era.

I see his mistake as similar to Biden's.  All he meant to say was that FDR's fixes, didn't work.  Clearly, the left is making too big a deal out of it.

 

Yes, he should have known FDR didn't cause the depression, but he's possibly correct in his beliefs that FDR didn't help things much.  Unemployment was as high in 1939 as it was in 1929.

 

Biden should have known that FDR wasn't president in 1929, and that he didn't speak on TV. 

 

Both are idiots.

^Agreed.

They'll never stop.  The philosophies they preach are very lucrative to a certain class of people.  That class will always be able to afford mouthpieces.  The philosophy will always have adherents beyond that class because it states that if you disagree, you're a lazy pansy.

 

Oh, you mean the middle class who are trying to get ahead by their hard work and want the government to quit giving money away to those who don't?

Which middle class is that?  The ones I know are all over the hard work component, but they're a lot less concerned about taxes than they are about money being "given away to people who don't work" through free market channels.

DanB, you just do not get it.

 

While Biden's mistake was stupid, it was not an attempt to discredit and rewrite American history.

 

Here is a somewhat analogous hypothetical situation, hopefully you will follow:

 

X says, "Richard Nixon's response to the Gulf of Tonkin was irresponsible, reckless, and damaged this country.  Our current President is taking us down the same path to infamy!"

 

Y says, "When the vietnamese attacked at the Gulf of Tonkin, Nixon began talking to the American people on the TV."

 

X is deliberately undermining a President (who of course is of a different party), a party and its philosophy, and rewriting history.

 

Y, while making a foolish mistake concerning modes of communication and what president was at the helm, is simply talking about the importance of communicating with the American public.

 

 

 

No, you are the one who doesnt get it.  Here is his response as found in the opening post of this thread:

 

In a one-page e-mail, the Beavercreek Republican wrote: "I did not mean to imply in any way that President Roosevelt was responsible for putting us into the Depression, but rather was trying to make the point that Roosevelt's attempt to use significant spending to get us out of the Depression did not have the desired effect.  Roosevelt did not put us into the Depression, but rather his policies could not pull the nation out of the recession."

 

The day before, as Austria was explaining his opposition to the huge federal stimulus package backed by President Barack Obama, he told The Dispatch editorial board: "When Roosevelt did this, he put our country into a Great Depression. ... He tried to borrow and spend, he tried to use the Keynesian approach, and our country ended up in a Great Depression. That's just history."

 

He acknowledged his mistake, it was a simple twisting of his words as he was speaking via the phone, he explained he meant to say what FDR did couldn't pull us out of the depression.

 

Maybe, if he had initiated the proper fix in 1933, The Great Depression may have been no greater than the others throughout our history.  Maybe FDR DID make it great by extending it throughout the 30's.

 

Have a nice day.

I see this as mostly analogous to the Biden gaffe.  Both had a fundamental misconception about what happened back then.  It makes you wonder how both guys got where they are, but when so many of your statements are recorded, I guess you're bound to screw up some.

 

One significant difference, though, is that Austria was mixed up as to causation.  That is a higher level of mental oopsie than what year did something happen.  If FDR's actions were harmful, are you asserting a continuation of Hoover's approach would have had better results?

Thank you. 

 

No, I don't think Hoover's response was correct either.  Stocks were actually up in 1930, and he could have done more to prop up the economy.  Taxes remained high, and people with money, pulled it out of the economy.  I don't pretend to have all the answers, I just see this as more big government, a redistribution of wealth.

The same way a buffoon said that Roosevelt talked to the people about the depression on TV, then got elected vice-president!

I suspect there are some other people who now acknowledge that Joe Biden doesn't know what he's talking about half the time:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xtt17V-qxUg&hl=en&fs=1

 

 

The Bush-Cheney government used to release news that "WMDs had been found in Iraq".  It was a lie, they knew it, and when challenged, they ordered the Pentagon to issue a retraction.

 

Well, people did not remember the retraction.  They only remembered the (big) lie.  The Bush-Cheney misinformation campaign was so devastatingly effective that even by 2004, a huge number of Americans still believed that the US had found WMDs in Iraq.  Hence, the public believed that the war was necessary and those two neoconservatives got elected in November 2004.

 

Austria is pulling the same sh t from the same playbook.  There will be large numbers of Americans who will start to believe that the Great Depression did not start until Roosevelt was President on his account.

^Agreed.  Austria was seeking to manipulate the truth, knowing that a repeated bombardment of misinformation would create a sect of believers.  Right out of Orwell's playbook.

 

And for those who do not believe this is what happens, just look at the overwhelming percentage of Americans who, on the eve of the invasion of Iraq, thought 9/11 was carried out by Iraqis.

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A32862-2003Sep5?language=printer

The propriety of redistributing wealth is an area where thoughtful people may disagree.  I think it's overdue.

The same way a buffoon said that Roosevelt talked to the people about the depression on TV, then got elected vice-president!

I suspect there are some other people who now acknowledge that Joe Biden doesn't know what he's talking about half the time:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xtt17V-qxUg&hl=en&fs=1

 

This is less an indictment of the integrity of Biden's words and more an indictment of the breathtaking quantity.

The guy said it was a mistake.  It makes him look like an idiot, but I don't see any malice here.  Just a fool that shouldn't have opened his mouth if he didn't know what he was talking about.  Same goes for Biden during that interview with Katie Couric.  It amazes me what politicians will say into a microphone without fact checking first.  I mean, I frequently fact check myself before posting something to this internet message board!  They can't be bothered to do the same before issuing a statement or sitting down for an interview?  That's just sad.

The same way a buffoon said that Roosevelt talked to the people about the depression on TV, then got elected vice-president!

I suspect there are some other people who now acknowledge that Joe Biden doesn't know what he's talking about half the time:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xtt17V-qxUg&hl=en&fs=1

 

This is less an indictment of the integrity of Biden's words and more an indictment of the breathtaking quantity.

 

basically he threw Biden under the bus in front of a national audience!

Basically he redirected an unanswerable question. Joe Biden is a big boy. He can take it. But just to be safe maybe you should bake some cookies for him.

I think part of Biden's intended role, from the outset, is to periodically get thrown under the bus.  That may also have been W's intended role.

That was actually my first impression of the Biden pick: a goofy, loquacious lightning rod.

Basically he redirected an unanswerable question. Joe Biden is a big boy. He can take it. But just to be safe maybe you should bake some cookies for him.

I dunno, he might get suspicious if I bring him cookies; and for security reasons I doubt he accepts anything from strangers that's homemade anyway. But since you're probably a big Biden fan I suggest you could send him some. I know that Cheryl's in Columbus makes great stuff; so I've provided you with their link. It might set you back a few bucks since their products aren't cheap, but it's worth it for the Vice-Prez, isn't it? http://www.cherylandco.com/

Looking at him I would guess Joe Biden accepts all cookies at all times from all offerers.