December 17, 200618 yr Q: I thought Trolleyville USA closed and was looking to possibly relocate in downtown Cleveland?
December 17, 200618 yr Trolleyville's old location in Olmsted Falls/Olmsted Township was closed last summer. Trolleyville's collection of streetcars, interurbans and other equipment were moved first to the former Shaker Rapid station beneath Tower City Center and most if not all of the collection was moved again to an unused warehouse at the Port of Cleveland, north of Browns Stadium. See.... http://www.trolleyvilleusa.org/ "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
December 18, 200618 yr Trolleyville's old location in Olmsted Falls/Olmsted Township was closed last summer. Trolleyville's collection of streetcars, interurbans and other equipment were moved first to the former Shaker Rapid station beneath Tower City Center and most if not all of the collection was moved again to an unused warehouse at the Port of Cleveland, north of Browns Stadium. See.... http://www.trolleyvilleusa.org/ Thank you for the info KGP. Hopefully they will find a new home not far from where they are now being stored.
December 18, 200618 yr ^A portion of the grant the Downtown Cleveland blah blah will be used to expedite this, if approved. From the RTA website: RTA News Dec. 15, 2006 Trolleys Score a Strike Corner Alley Sponsorship Keeps Trolleys Free to Ride CLEVELAND – RTA’s Downtown Trolleys will remain free to ride in 2007 thanks to a promotional sponsorship by The Corner Alley and 4th Street Bar & Grill. Owners of the new East 4th entertainment complex have agreed to sponsor both the E-Line and B-Line Trolleys now through June of 2007. This ensures a fun and functional way for office workers, residents, and tourists to get to downtown restaurants, clubs, and venues. It also delivers a solid strike towards the continued comeback of downtown entertainment. Transformation continues throughout the downtown area -- from new trendy restaurants in the Warehouse District and unique shopping at the Old Arcade, to improvements at Playhouse Square and a planned makeover of the Flats. The Entertainment District at East 4th has seen the most dramatic changes of late, and The Corner Alley will make it an even hotter hot spot area. The new venue has the right hook to be a big hit. Bowling and Cleveland are a natural match. But you’ll find much more than just slick wooden lanes and two-toned leather shoes at The Corner Alley. It also has a martini bar and 100-seat restaurant. The interior is as unique as the concept. Walls were removed to connect three buildings together, with architectural features of each structure maintained to create an interesting eclectic decor. New late-night hours on the E-Line Trolley will make it easy to bowl a few games after work. The E-Line Trolley now operates from 7 a.m. – 11 p.m. weekdays. It arrives every 10 minutes at stops along its route along Euclid Avenue from East 21st to Public Square, connecting to the Warehouse District. Ridership on the Trolleys has steadily increased since being introduced in the spring of 2006. Currently, the nostalgic green and gold vehicles, complete with cowcatchers, wooden rails, and brass bells, carry more than 2,700 daily passengers. Financial support from the Convention and Visitors Bureau of Greater Cleveland allowed riders to hop on for free with a smile. The partnership with The Corner Alley continues the free service, which RTA hopes to offer indefinitely. FOR MEDIA INQUIRIES ONLY: Jerry Masek, 216-566-5211 http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php?topic=2055.msg148692#msg148692
May 26, 200916 yr Cleveland trolley plan derails Tuesday, May 26, 2009 10:11 AM CLEVELAND (AP) - Plans for a trolley tourist attraction have gone off the tracks in Cleveland. A nonprofit group with a warehouse full of old trolley cars had planned to build a rail loop through downtown, along with a trolley museum. But now, Lake Shore Electric Railway Inc. wants to put more than 30 trolley cars up for auction possibly, in July. Spokesman Mark Ricchiuto (rik-YOO'-toh) says the down economy put the brakes on fund raising. He says Lake Shore Electric can't keep its debts and mounting costs sidetracked any longer. http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/local_news/stories/2009/05/26/acleve.html?sid=101
May 26, 200916 yr What a horrible derailment. I hope that the trolley train keeps choo-chooing along the tracks of future potential, given that the company has the trolley cars in the car barn. I assume the company no longer has the working capital to maintain the current fleet, and is incurring debts on the building.
May 26, 200916 yr This sucks. I hope that they can find some sort of funding soon, instead of having to sell at auction.
May 26, 200916 yr Another blow to downtown. A very good idea. Damn shame. downtown? How about the region.
May 26, 200916 yr Has anyone considered using these trolley cars in a practical manner, and attempting to apply some stimulus funds to a project their existence would render partially complete? I'm suggesting an actual trolley route that would carry people from some Cleveland neighborhood to and from downtown. This seems like it would fill a much greater need than would a tourist-focused downtown loop like the one Detroit has.
June 10, 200916 yr Has anyone considered using these trolley cars in a practical manner, and attempting to apply some stimulus funds to a project their existence would render partially complete? I'm suggesting an actual trolley route that would carry people from some Cleveland neighborhood to and from downtown. This seems like it would fill a much greater need than would a tourist-focused downtown loop like the one Detroit has. An excellent idea; San Francisco has such a heritage line along its waterfront w/ all sorts of museum trolleys... Maybe now is the time to, once again, explore a trolley route connecting Public Square, the WHD and Ohio City -- by way of the subway deck of the recently rehabbed Detroit-Superior (Vet Memorial) bridge.
June 10, 200916 yr Out from Terminal Tower, under Detroit Superior bridge, left on to W 25th, left onto lower deck of Hope Memorial bridge and back to TT. All of the right of way is in place, much of the infrastructure is, shouldn't be too hard. Mayor Poverty will not be interested. Surprisingly, RTA has been supportive of Trollyville and was instrumental in bringing the collection downtown. If a Foundation would lead the way it could happen.
June 10, 200916 yr I posed this idea a few years ago. Obviously it didn't go anywhere..... "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
June 10, 200916 yr Question for KJP: I know that the Detroit Superior bridge has stations already built into it. Does the Hope Memorial bridge have any station infrastructure built in? It is my understanding that the Detroit Superior bridge was a one time a working subway but the Loraine Carnegie bridge never was. Also, would there be much problem getting from the track level of the Cleveland Union Station onto the lower deck of the DS bridge? I know that the current waterfront line comes very close. Thanks in advance.
June 10, 200916 yr My proposed streetcar routing from Tower City onto Detroit-Superior bridge with restored station facility on the east end of bridge... The subway level and ramp, including the location of support posts for the roadway deck above... What the surface looked like in 1918 including the vehicular traffic flows... Photo I took of the underside of the bridge below where the station would be restored. Shows easy connection to Waterfront Line station... "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
June 10, 200916 yr Question for KJP: I know that the Detroit Superior bridge has stations already built into it. Does the Hope Memorial bridge have any station infrastructure built in? It is my understanding that the Detroit Superior bridge was a one time a working subway but the Loraine Carnegie bridge never was. Also, would there be much problem getting from the track level of the Cleveland Union Station onto the lower deck of the DS bridge? I know that the current waterfront line comes very close. Thanks in advance. I forgot to answer the question about the Hope Memorial Bridge. It was built with the necessary support beams and clearances for the addition of a subway deck but no station or track facilities were ever provided. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
June 10, 200916 yr KJP, your proposal is accepted. Please send forwarding address so I can send you your $100,000.00 consulting fee.
June 10, 200916 yr Thanks! My bank is in the Cayman Islands..... :angel: "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
June 10, 200916 yr The Lake Shore Electric Railway -- the nonprofit which took over ownership of Trolleyville's collection. Understandably, their primary interest was securing funding for a permanent building to house, display and rehabilitate the equipment. They couldn't get the funding for that, let alone the grander plans I offered. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
June 12, 200916 yr KJP, any estimate as to how much it would cost to implement your simple plan if it was done on the cheap?
June 13, 200916 yr This is based on a capital cost of $40 million to $80 million per mile. A routing from Tower City Center, over the Detroit-Superior bridge, down West 25th, over the Lorain-Carnegie bridge, and along Ontario/RTA tracks back to Tower City Center is about 3 miles. A capital cost for this section COULD be anywhere from $120 million to $240 million. If a routing deeper into downtown was desired, such as east on Carnegie, north on East 9th, East 14th or East 17th or East 18th then west on Rockwell/Frankfort, or to the Waterfront Line (but without the segment along Ontario/RTA tracks), could add $40 million to $80 million to the cost. Remember this is a big-time guesstimate. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
July 7, 200915 yr This is based on a capital cost of $40 million to $80 million per mile. A routing from Tower City Center, over the Detroit-Superior bridge, down West 25th, over the Lorain-Carnegie bridge, and along Ontario/RTA tracks back to Tower City Center is about 3 miles. A capital cost for this section COULD be anywhere from $120 million to $240 million. If a routing deeper into downtown was desired, such as east on Carnegie, north on East 9th, East 14th or East 17th or East 18th then west on Rockwell/Frankfort, or to the Waterfront Line (but without the segment along Ontario/RTA tracks), could add $40 million to $80 million to the cost. Remember this is a big-time guesstimate. ... or, what about routing, from the old, extant Shaker Rapid station over the Detroit-Superior Bridge, up Detroit. Cars could surface around W. 28th and travel thru the great/improving Gordon Square District (serving the just a-building Battery Park high density condo development), to Lake Ave. There, they could either continue along Detroit to the West Blvd Red Line station and terminate; or they could dogleg NW along Lake Ave to a terminal in huge, popular Edgewater Park. This would be a roughly 3 mile line and would score on many levels: - as a tourist trolley - as a working LRT line with a quick subway access to Public Square - as a connector of growing/trendy high-density areas like North Ohio City, Gordon Square/Battery Park (Det-Shoreway) and Edgewater. ... and as the West Side's 2nd rapid transit line, if I were RTA I'd terminate all W.25 and Lorain bus routes at the W. 25-Detroit subway station. Frankly, I think more of these lines should be terminated at the existing W. 25 Red Line station. RTA, historically from the old CTS, has been far to generous in allowing 1-seat bus rides into downtown, while bypassing rail heads like the W. 25-Ohio City station. Only 1 of these lines should reach downtown. The passengers from the other lines would have the choice of either transferring to the Red Line or the downtown bound bus line (perhaps the #22 from Lorain). It sure would save RTA a lot of fuel esp for an agency so hard up for cash. Any, I think a subway-surface from Tower City under the D-S bridge up Detroit should be examined. The beauty of this (similar to so many unrealized transit here) is that the old Shaker Station is in the northern most section of Tower City meaning it's closest to the D-S bridge (KJP has diagrammed this well in the past)... memory/observations tell me that an unimpeded path from the station to the bridge, along side Red/Waterfront Line track exists from Tower City -- at most, I think one parking ramp from street level would have to be eliminated. (boo-hoo)
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