Posted July 9, 200420 yr From the 7/9/04 Enquirer: Orchestra wants Music Hall makeover By Cliff Peale Enquirer staff writer The Cincinnati Symphony Orchestra will seek reconfiguration of Music Hall, including a smaller performance space, a gift shop, restaurant and donor lounge, the organization said Thursday. In approving a long-term strategic plan under development for months, orchestra trustees reiterated a commitment to retain high artistic standards, but also signaled a need to improve the organization's financial position. No link available for full article.
February 14, 200520 yr Here are a few projects that are going on in the Cincinnati arts community. These were picked from Downtown Cincinnati Inc.'s 4th Quarter State of the Downtown. Other info came from the Cincinnati MLS, the Hamilton County Auditor and other various websites. If any of these create a discussion, I'll split them off if necessary. Art Academy of Cincinnati Address: 1212 Jackson St./22 E. Twelfth St., Over-the-Rhine Description: Conversion of former Excelsior Steam Laundry warehouse from 1928 Developer: 1212 Jackson LLC Size: 120,000 SF, double that of the current Mt. Adams location Status: under construction, should be finished this summer City Investment: $12.5 million http://www.artacademy.edu/whatsnew/building.htm (links to photo albums) Mickey Jarson-Kaplan Performance Studio Address: 1555 Central Parkway, West End Description: new, add-on construction Architect/Builder: ATA Beilharz Architects/Paul Hemmer Co. Construction Size: 8,000 SF, including 3,600 SF dance studio Status: grand opening Feb. 22 City Investment: $1.8 million http://www.cincypost.com/2005/01/11/ballet011105.html (Post story) Corbett Opera Center, Phase I Address: Music Hall, Over-the-Rhine Description: renovation of little-used north end of historic Music Hall Architect/Builder: FRCH Design Worldwide/Frank Messer and Sons Size: 14,000 SF administrative offices/street-level box office Status: completed in January City Investment: $4 million Corbett Opera Center, Phase II Address: Music Hall, Over-the-Rhine Description: renovation of additional space in the north end Architect/Builder: FRCH Design Worldwide/Frank Messer and Sons Size: 5,000 SF rehearsal studios Status: under construction, opens in October http://www.cincinnatiopera.com/content.jsp?articleId=190 (links to photo albums)
February 14, 200520 yr I've never been to the ballet, though I've always meant to. But that new construction should be very eye-catching. The current location looks dumpy and unappealing - definitely not the vibe a ballet should have: You'll have to be able to see this from the bridge over Central at Music Hall, no? Which would mean probably 80% of the folks who go to orchestra concerts and operas and whatever else at Music Hall will be reminded of the ballet after every show...that's really exciting...
February 15, 200520 yr Fantastic. "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
February 16, 200520 yr An article in today's Post (I think) said that when the Art Academy moves downtown, the Art Museum will move into their space. It will be interesting to see what they do with it and how they integrate it into the rest of the museum. Since building the Cincinnati Wing, they took out most of the period rooms and there are other works they are not now displaying so I hope that they will bring some or all of that back. The article said the Art Academy space in the old Mt. Adams School is going to be turned into condos, so this will really be a win, win, win situation for all the organizations. Likewise the new Corbett Center at Music Hall and all the proposed work around Washington Park may really make a difference in time. I wish they would completely redo Washington Park itself when the elementary school is demolished and the park is expanded back to its full length between 12th and 14th Streets.
February 16, 200520 yr Moving the drop in center should be a priority, move it where? im not sure, maybe West Chester?? There are dozens of registered sex offenders who use the drop inn center as a primary address, thats not good next to the new SCPA. Washington Park is a beautiful place, that will be nice when the washington park school is demolished.
June 21, 200519 yr From the 6/21/05 Cincinnati Business Courier: CAC launches $20 million campaign The Contemporary Arts Center has launched an effort to raise $20 million dubbed "The Future Now Campaign". The campaign, which already has pledges to cover half its goal, will give the CAC the resources to "attract significant artists and create breakthrough new shows," said CAC Allice & Harris Weston Director Linda Shearer in statement. ... http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2005/06/20/daily15.html?from_rss=1
June 21, 200519 yr Eh, I might as well post the story from the Cincinnati Post, too: Bigger exhibitions a major goal Contemporary Arts Center seeks to raise $20M By Cliff Peale Enquirer staff writer The Contemporary Arts Center today will launch a $20 million campaign to boost its endowment and allow it to make art more accessible to average visitors and bring in bigger exhibitions. Trustees already have pledges for half that amount, led by a multimillion-dollar gift from Lois and Dick Rosenthal, whose name is on the building that houses the center after they contributed $6 million. ... http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050621/NEWS01/506210352/1056/rss02
April 17, 200619 yr Let's bring on the good guys Cincinnati Business Courier - April 14, 2006 One only has to be a regular reader of the print and daily editions of the Courier to know that the rebirth of Over-the-Rhine has never looked better. (Go to www.cincinnati.bizjournals.com, keyword search "Over-the-Rhine.") Click on link for more information. http://cincinnati.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2006/04/17/editorial1.html
April 17, 200619 yr The board of the Cincinnati Symphony Orchestra needs to put an end to talk that it will leave Music Hall for a new $200 million concert hall. I had no idea this was ever discussed. Did I miss a very important thread somewhere? This would be unimaginable and unconscionable...
April 17, 200619 yr The idea of the CSO leaving music hall was mentioned in a Sunday Enquirer package of articles about OTR a few weeks ago. At this point, I think such talk is more of a shot across the bow. But if 3CDC can't improve the perception and reality of Washington Park in the next two years, don't be surprised to see the talk get more serious.
April 17, 200619 yr The CSO without music hall would be a joke. I could care less about the symphony if they weren't in that grand building. I only go to the symphony about 3 times a year but as long as they stay at music hall I will support them 100%
April 17, 200619 yr ^ I kinda said the same thing to a freind of mine who has season CSO tickets and is a professional classical musician. His response was that most of the people who attend go for the music only, and would prefer that they be in a new structure north of the city. Their subscribers are geographically centered north and east of Cincinnati. He said that this has been the talk at the symphony for years. The CSO without Music Hall would be a joke to me too, but I hardly ever go. Should the CSO cater to Maximillian and I, or to the regular subscribers who are the backbone of the symphony?
April 17, 200619 yr I kinda said the same thing to a freind of mine who has season CSO tickets and is a professional classical musician. His response was that most of the people who attend go for the music only, and would prefer that they be in a new structure north of the city. Their subscribers are geographically centered north and east of Cincinnati. He said that this has been the talk at the symphony for years. I have wondered why concert halls are located downtown. In Dayton's case I think, if the ballet, symphony, and orchestra where to be located close to their patron base a performing arts center would be built near the Fraze Pavillion in Kettering. Having been to peforming arts events at these venues, one can tell that its a quick walk for the patrons to the nearest parking garage, to get in the car and drive out of town. I dont think there is much spin-off to downtown things from these arts events (perhaps to Unos or Citilights) Yet, the Vicotria was renovated and the Shuster Center built, so there is sort of, perhaps, a tradition of sorts of "going donwtown" for arts events here? I do find it suprising to think an arts organization like a syphony would consider relocating to a suburban site. Has this happened elsewhere in the US?
April 17, 200619 yr ^Several decades ago, everything was built downtown. This is probably why the old concert halls were built down town. It would be a shame if the CSO left Over-the-Rhine for a bland structure North or East of the city. Music Hall is part of the reason why I like going to such events. I went to The White Stripes concert at Music Hall last year. I was very surprised when I heard they were performing there. Then I read an article in the paper about the concert. It said that their agent tried to book them at Riverbend. However, Jack White saw pictures of Music Hall. He insisted on having a show there instead. Although I think Jack White can be freaky, he obviously has great taste in venues!
April 17, 200619 yr One compelling reason for locating performance halls downtown is the central location in the region. Downtowns also tend to have some of the best restaurants in a region, and there is a correlation between subscribers to symphony, ballet, etc. and fancy restaurants. But perhaps the most significant is the contribution a major performance space makes to a region's collective cultural identity. That, in turn, raises a city's profile to outsiders (who spend tourist dollars, book conventions, make corporate expansion/relocation decisions, etc.) as well as spurring related investment in the surrounding area.
April 17, 200619 yr I've never been to music hall but It's a huge building for a venue with just a few thousand seats...what do they use the rest of the building for? I heard that it was built on the site of Cincinnati's first hospital that included an insane asylum and that a lot of crazy people are buried on the site and that it's very haunted.
April 17, 200619 yr ^ There is also a large ballroom inside. My high school had some of their dances there. My company also holds their Christmas party there - using both the theatre and the ballroom - so I've been in it several times.
April 18, 200619 yr >My high school had some of their dances there Yeah, I've actually been in a fight in Music Hall, at my senior year Homecoming Dance. My date was on crutches from a car wreck and this retard said something like "hey is that your date on the crutches" and so I decked him. I had actually fought this guy previously but that had ended in a draw. He then rounded up "his boys", who were all Juniors, and then I quickly assembled a gang and there was a brief standoff where a circle formed around us all but it all ended when this guy I wasn't even good friends with but who was a maniac and showed up to the dance drunk went over and threatened him and they backed down. There was also a fight at the Ursuline dance I went to there, or rather some guy punched out his girlfriend and I kid you not she had to be taken out on a stretcher. I didn't see the incident but I did see her getting wheeled out. There is also an exhibition space up in the attic of Music Hall, I got dragged to a craft fair there when I was little with my mom and grandma. The ceilings are high and sharply angled and I seem to remember the brickwork and some wood beams were exposed.
April 18, 200619 yr The Kenwood Symphony Orchestra? F*** that...I'd far rather see the Bengals play in Blue Ash than have the orchestra move to some garbage strip-mall architecture nonsense off 275...ick ick ick... Yeah, I'll have to follow the Washington Park thread...sorry about that, and thanks for the heads up!
April 18, 200619 yr It would be a shame if the CSO left Over-the-Rhine for a bland structure North or East of the city. It wouldn't have to be a bland structure. It could be a really cool building in a wooded site in Sharon Woods, Indian Hill, or Loveland. They could have outdoor concerts, grand restaurants and a very modern wood and glass structure. If they did this, I guarantee that their concert attendance would rise. Unfortunate, but true. City council owns Music Hall, and they better wake up and improve the building to better serve the Symphony.
April 18, 200619 yr I am a regular CSO concert goer - it is disappointing to see so many empty seats, but have to remind myself that there are often 3 repeated concerts per weekend series meaning a total of 4000-6000 seats are sold. The opera just moved into one of the wings and it is rare when I'm at the Symphony when the other hall isn't also in use. My opinion is that Paavo is more disappointed at the lack of development and turn-around in the Washington Park area than the empty seats and as somebody said earlier in the thread this positioning is more of a "shot over the bow". IMO, the CSO should & will stay at Music Hall, but the disparity of the Mercedes and Cadillacs rolling by the fellows from the Drop Inn Center is plain to see. In many ways Music Hall is like the stadiums, the crowd pretty much gets in and out, but that shouldn't have to be that way.
April 18, 200619 yr The most shocking social contrast I've ever seen in the city has been at the intermission during an Opera - dressed-to-the-nines Opera-going smokers standing on the steps, then the folks meandering in and out of Washington Park, with a few cops to stop panhandling...man, one incident there could be devastating to the Opera or CSO... I wonder what some of the really big-name donors think of moving the CSO...anyone know the Rosenthals or Lindners or Corbetts?
April 18, 200619 yr <i>I thought this was a relevant article. Some interesting observations under the current circumstances.</i> <b>Disney Hall looks like music's future The view from behind the orchestra in Los Angeles</b> By Mary Ellyn Hutton Post music writer Cincinnati Pops conductor Erich Kunzel said it best. In a 1990 interview with The Post, Kunzel addressed the way symphony concerts are presented. "What is the great thing to observe about a symphony conductor? Certainly not his rear end." That image, however -- coattails and arms waving at a secret society of musicians on a plane elevated from the rest of us -- is what most people see in the concert hall, including in Cincinnati's 3,517-seat Music Hall. The problem can also be intensified by poor sight lines and listeners' average distance from the stage. Click on link for more information. Publication date: 04-18-2006 http://news.cincypost.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060418/LIFE/604180391/1005
April 18, 200619 yr Now that this discussion is no longer hidden in another thread, I would like to add my two cents. 60% of the reason why I have gone to the CSO was to see Music Hall. I value my experience in Music Hall greater than that of the music itself. Maybe in time I will grow to like the music more but as a sub 30 year old I value the architecture more.
April 18, 200619 yr >anyone know the Rosenthals Yeah, look in any material published by the Rosenthals published in the late 1800's and the name of the company was Mecklenborg-Rosenthal. That was my great-great grandfather, somehow he got run out of the company and worked the remainder of his days setting type at the Enquirer, passed on a maybe $40,000 wood frame house in Cheviot to his kids instead of an Indian Hill estate. Yeah, we're all still bitter about it. But back on the matter of Music Hall, I think any move out of there would be tragic. The building is really without comparison in the US, part of the reason why there are so many empty seats is because the two balconies were added at later dates. A historically accurate renovation would actually remove those two balconies. Symphony Hall in Boston is a dump, not nearly as nice as Music Hall, the seats are tiny wooden seats, but you don't hear any of this talk up there. Some reworking of the hall, with different seat materials and other replacements of interior surfaces could create a more lively sound. I prefer a really live resonant sound like a school gym with a wood floor over the so-called "neutral" sound of most recording studios and newer performing spaces, adding a bit of this to music hall would make a big difference, but of course I'm sure I'd butt heads with the so-called experts over this.
April 18, 200619 yr But back on the matter of Music Hall, I think any move out of there would be tragic. The building is really without comparison in the US, part of the reason why there are so many empty seats is because the two balconies were added at later dates. A historically accurate renovation would actually remove those two balconies. Symphony Hall in Boston is a dump, not nearly as nice as Music Hall, the seats are tiny wooden seats, but you don't hear any of this talk up there. Syphony Hall in Boston is supposed to have some of the best acoustics in the country, and Music Hall is right up there with it. Since we get CET via cable up here in Centerville we get some Cincy-specfic programming, and one of the better shows was this very interesting history of Music Hall. Apparently it started out as a venue or space for the various German singing societies, and then became a joint-venture with the Cincy elite as highbrow music space. And it was also intended in part to be a exhibition hall (the two wings). I guess the idea of a major classical music/concert venue away from downtown isn't too odd. Isn't Severance Hall in Cleveland over at University Circle, quite a ways from downtown?
April 18, 200619 yr ^I think that Symphony Hall is a bit more resonant overall, a room can have sweet spots for certain types of sounds and I think the strings sound better in Symphony Hall and the Boston Symphony's string section is better than Cincinnati's although I haven't seen the CSO in almost 10 years so things might have changed. The last time I was in Music Hall was about five years ago for Arturo Sandoval, I heard him play a year earlier in a crummy auditorium on the University of Tennessee campus and the sound was better there for that type of music. He is the loudest trumpet player ever and his sound was muffled in Music Hall, and I was sitting dead center on the first balcony. He was pointed right at me. That auditorium at UT has a cheap tile floor but that reflects way more sound, giving a more live sound. A wood floor in the aisles in place of the carpet could help Music Hall.
April 19, 200619 yr As I understand it, the acoustics of the Emery Auditorium when built was considered 3rd best in the country, behind Carnegie Hall and I think Symphony Hall. I believe it to be acoustically superior to Music Hall and with cantilevered balconies, no support columns to ruin the sight lines. It is also a more traditional theater seating. I think it also seats a little over 2000. Problems are accessability, parking (the new Gateway Garage would help), current condition and smallish stage. (organ is gone too). It is also austere, but for pure music I think it is superior. I know that is not the only reason folks go to the symphony.
April 19, 200619 yr I have never been in Emery Auditorium, does anyone have any photos of the interior?
April 19, 200619 yr The enquirer classical music blog has some discussion about this topic: http://frontier.cincinnati.com/blogs/classical/2006/03/readers-sound-off-about-music-hall.asp A typical post: Randall Wolfe, director of Cincinnati Boychoir, e-mailed: "That was a much-needed article about the CSO and the problems surrounding the neighborhood around Music Hall, and was very well done, as always. ...The last time I went to a performance at Music Hall, I was accosted for money by someone who had made his way INTO the parking garage - on the top level, at that! Obviously Paavo feels very strongly about the issues, and I hope he will lead the way for many of us who desperately need to move at least a little further north so that we are more central to our constituency. Otherwise, over the long haul, I believe we will lose the boychoir, and probably many other groups." Also on a different entry on that blog, there is an interesting interview with Oscar Treadwell about Jazz in Cincinnati. I was particularly struck by this quote: "When people say they won’t go downtown, then jazz clubs have to re-evaluate. They either move farther out, or there are no clubs. "Dayton answered this by bringing the black and white community together. It’s a remarkable city. They have jazz concerts all the time. They have a symphonic hall for jazz (Memorial Hall). Dayton survived with jazz and Cincinnati didn’t because there’s a hard feeling about jazz and improvised music generally. It got me thinking.... Why doesn't Cincinnati have a place like Preservation Hall http://www.preservationhall.com/ in New Orleans. I know the perfect place too... just across the park from music hall.... Hmmmm. Fun to dream about the possibilities.
April 19, 200619 yr Also on a different entry on that blog, there is an interesting interview with Oscar Treadwell about Jazz in Cincinnati. I was particularly struck by this quote: "When people say they won’t go downtown, then jazz clubs have to re-evaluate. They either move farther out, or there are no clubs. "Dayton answered this by bringing the black and white community together. It’s a remarkable city. They have jazz concerts all the time. They have a symphonic hall for jazz (Memorial Hall). Dayton survived with jazz and Cincinnati didn’t because there’s a hard feeling about jazz and improvised music generally. Well, that is quite an interesting observation! I don't listen to jazz on purpose but I have noticed there is a lot of it going on in Dayton. WYSO used to do their weeknight programming mostly in jazz, which was sort of interesting to me as, though not a fan, I used to listen to this a lot... Here is a local website, also a newsletter, put out by this old couple who lives in the Dayton Towers..... Jazz Advocate ...interesting also, to see, that they have a link to a Cincy page. As for his comment about "Dayton answered this by bringing the black and white community together"...well, Dayton is pretty segregated, but the center city...downtown and environs...is sort of a shared space, and isn't percieved as a no-go area for either whites or blacks. It certainly isn't a no-go area for people of any race who live live music of any kind, that's for sure.
April 19, 200619 yr As for his comment about "Dayton answered this by bringing the black and white community together"...well, Dayton is pretty segregated, but the center city...downtown and environs...is sort of a shared space, and isn't percieved as a no-go area for either whites or blacks. Sadly more suburban Daytonites hate on downtown Dayton more than suburban Cincinnatians hate on downtown Cincy. The city is very segregated for a reason...
April 19, 200619 yr Sadly more suburban Daytonites hate on downtown Dayton more than suburban Cincinnatians hate on downtown Cincy. Not enough to talk about relocating the ballet or symphony to the suburbs, or to not patronize places like Gillys, Canal Street Tavern or the other music places in town. Daytons problem is more generational, I think.
April 19, 200619 yr Randall Wolfe, director of Cincinnati Boychoir, e-mailed: "That was a much-needed article about the CSO and the problems surrounding the neighborhood around Music Hall, and was very well done, as always. ...The last time I went to a performance at Music Hall, I was accosted for money by someone who had made his way INTO the parking garage - on the top level, at that! Obviously Paavo feels very strongly about the issues, and I hope he will lead the way for many of us who desperately need to move at least a little further north so that we are more central to our constituency. Otherwise, over the long haul, I believe we will lose the boychoir, and probably many other groups." How widespread is this sentiment in the Cincy arts community to "moving further north"? I'd think maybe not so much as the Aranoff was built downtown, and I presume it books performing arts events along with Music Hall? If there was no support in the donor and patron base, would the Aranoff have been built where it was?
April 19, 200619 yr Daytons problem is more generational, I think. Bingo. "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
April 20, 200619 yr Not enough to talk about relocating the ballet or symphony to the suburbs, or to not patronize places like Gillys, Canal Street Tavern or the other music places in town. What does Canal Street Tavern have to do with Symphony? Nothing... This isn't about the local downtown bar, this is about an Orchestra company and there is no reason to talk about moving Dayton's Orchestra because they just built the brand new Schuster Center. I find it quite silly to bring in a small downtown that has little life at all with high vacancy rates into the mix and try and compare it to a major city. I like Dayton and I wish it well but there is a reason why I commute to Cincy Metro and don't live in Dayton Metro even though I work there. The area has more problems than it can count.
April 20, 200619 yr I like Dayton and I wish it well but there is a reason why I commute to Cincy Metro and don't live in Dayton Metro even though I work there. The area has more problems than it can count. Geez Monte. Yes, Dayton has its fair share of problems, but as someone who works in the Dayton area, you do have a vested interest in the success of greater Dayton. And as such, I invited you get involved in an organization such as Grassroots Greater Dayton who is promoting responsible growth and urban redevelopment. Many people view OTR as a place that has "more problems than it can count" and would like to see it bulldozed. You, I, and everyone else on this board know that that is just preposterous. Although work needs to be done, there are great things that can come from working together to improve OTR. And the same can be said for Dayton. Before you write off Dayton as a place that has "more problems than it can count," I invite you to be a part of the solution Although I don't want to speak for Jeff, I believe the point about Canal Street Tavern that he was making was that popular music venues have been quite successful in bringing people from all part of Dayton together. While the same can be said about Cincinnati, the talk about the Cincinnati Symphony Orchestra's slight chance of moving and Oscar Treadwell's comments caused him to question that in Cincinnati. However, as he pointed out, the Arnoff Center was built downtown, and not in Blue Ash. All that being said, I certainly hope the Cincinnati Symphony Orchestra stays at Music Hall, as I believe they will. I have very much enjoyed going to Music Hall for few performance that I have seen there.
April 20, 200619 yr photo of interior of emery auditorium http://www.enquirer.com/editions/1999/02/02/loc_emery_theater_may.html
April 20, 200619 yr I like Dayton and I wish it well but there is a reason why I commute to Cincy Metro and don't live in Dayton Metro even though I work there. The area has more problems than it can count. Geez Monte. Yes, Dayton has its fair share of problems, but as someone who works in the Dayton area, you do have a vested interest in the success of greater Dayton. And as such, I invited you get involved in an organization such as Grassroots Greater Dayton who is promoting responsible growth and urban redevelopment. Many people view OTR as a place that has "more problems than it can count" and would like to see it bulldozed. You, I, and everyone else on this board know that that is just preposterous. Although work needs to be done, there are great things that can come from working together to improve OTR. And the same can be said for Dayton. Before you write off Dayton as a place that has "more problems than it can count," I invite you to be a part of the solution Although I don't want to speak for Jeff, I believe the point about Canal Street Tavern that he was making was that popular music venues have been quite successful in bringing people from all part of Dayton together. While the same can be said about Cincinnati, the talk about the Cincinnati Symphony Orchestra's slight chance of moving and Oscar Treadwell's comments caused him to question that in Cincinnati. However, as he pointed out, the Arnoff Center was built downtown, and not in Blue Ash. All that being said, I certainly hope the Cincinnati Symphony Orchestra stays at Music Hall, as I believe they will. I have very much enjoyed going to Music Hall for few performance that I have seen there. Agreed. Very classy post. It's also disheartening to see mod say it as well. Tsk tsk. "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
April 20, 200619 yr I just don't like Dayton because it's small :laugh: Edit: Ok, I'll rephrase that "smaller".
April 20, 200619 yr You do know how to test the Forum Administrator, eh? ;) "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
April 20, 200619 yr If there was no support in the donor and patron base, would the Aranoff have been built where it was? As I recall, the Aronoff was built with alot of State money, thus it being named after Stanley Aronoff, our state senator. It could not have been built with private money. At the time, many people were worried that it would mean the doom of Music Hall, because it would draw patrons away. It was seen as a way to help save that part of downtown, and I would have to say it has succeded pretty well. From talking to a handful of musicians and real classical music patrons, I find that they all know about and talk about the issue of "moving north, closer to our base of patrons". Some have real misgivings about it, others couldn't care less about the building and just want a convenient place to hear music. Although not likely to happen in the next few years, it is a murmur that could grow into a chorus, if changes aren't made. Sorry about bringing the unrelated jazz and Dayton talk to this thread. I always liked Oscar Treadwell and respect his opinion on music and race. Ideally, the patrons of Music Hall would feel comfortable walking in the neighborhood, and nearby clubs could possibly be a part of that. Unfortunately, I don't know if OTR will ever get there.
April 20, 200619 yr Geez Monte. Yes, Dayton has its fair share of problems, but as someone who works in the Dayton area, you do have a vested interest in the success of greater Dayton. And as such, I invited you get involved in an organization such as Grassroots Greater Dayton who is promoting responsible growth and urban redevelopment. Dfly that is just it, I work in Dayton but my passion is for Cincinnati so when I have time to volunteer and get involved in grass roots organizations it is in Cincinnati. Sorry that is the way it is, I wish Dayton great success but it is my place of employment and that is it. I can't imagine that I will keep up this pace as I want to live and work in downtown Cincinnati but the job has keep me traveling and busy so I haven't had the desire to make the jump to another employer yet except for those selfish desires to work & live in Cincy. My comment that you quoted might have come across harsher than I intended. Maybe it is the tone of Jeff's comments toward Cincinnati that rubbed me wrong. I have noticed his subtle comparisons with Cincy & Louisville too. I see the constant need to try and boost these smaller cities at the expense of a larger one. I could be reading into it but I sense a hidden agenda.
April 20, 200619 yr You shouldn't, as Jeff has been equally critical (if not, by far) towards Dayton than Cincinnati. "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
April 20, 200619 yr As I recall, the Aronoff was built with alot of State money, thus it being named after Stanley Aronoff, our state senator. It could not have been built with private money. At the time, many people were worried that it would mean the doom of Music Hall, because it would draw patrons away. It was seen as a way to help save that part of downtown, and I would have to say it has succeded pretty well. Ah..I was wondering who Aranoff was...I had guessed a wealthy local philanthropist. The Aranoff is actually pretty sensitive to its urban context. Too often these highbrow cultural centers are aggressively modernist monuments (like that Disney concert hall in LA), while the Aranoff "fits in" reall well into the streetscape around it (and I like how they have that restaurant on on corner, too) How does the performing arts insitutions deal with these two halls..the Aranoff and Music Hall...do they share the spaces or alternate venues? Or is, say, the Ballet, based mostly at Aranoff and the Orchestra at Music Hall?
April 20, 200619 yr It's stupid to name a building after a senator, a living senator at that. They named the DAAP building after him too. Mr. Aronoff's ego must be through the ceiling. I don't know the history of the project but I'm assuming it would have been a way better idea to sell naming rights and save everyone a lot of money. It doesn't make sense to me to name the halls after corporations, yet the building isn't. It should be the other way around. Ppl recognize the name of the facility--Aronoff more than they do p&g, 5/3rd, and jarson-kapplan halls.
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