4 hours ago, mrnyc said:

 

 

they were all combined for awhile as of 1999-ish in the cbsa era as cleveland-akron-canton.

 

i guess that is what i was thinking of.

 

 

https://www2.census.gov/geo/maps/metroarea/stcbsa_pg/Feb2013/cbsa2013_OH.pdf

 

https://www.census.gov/history/www/programs/geography/metropolitan_areas.html

 

Kind of, yes. They were, and are, a part of the same Combined Statistical Area, which is a group of adjacent metro areas that have high levels of interaction. They are all a part of the Cleveland-Akron-Canton CSA. CBSAs are just an inclusive term to cover both Metropolitan and Micropolitan Statistical Areas.

22 hours ago, freefourur said:

Wasn't Ashtabula County once considered a part of the Cleveland MSA?

 

Not according to the old Census books I have.

21 hours ago, eastvillagedon said:

I don't understand the term "census designated place." What in the world is it and when did it start?? Every place in the US would already seem to be part of a particular city, town, municipality or township (etc.) with borders that were clearly defined when they incorporated, which, I assume, would be the basis of how the census counts the population. The whole concept of census designated place just sounds like a bunch of residents that make up a certain community wishing to separate from a larger one to enhance their image for some special purpose. Your guess is as good as mine what that might be. And how would that be a legal basis for compiling official census data?

 

CDPs were created exclusively for statistical compilation and comparison. Not all areas are part of an incorporated place. As mentioned by the other poster, not all states even have townships. And even in states that do have townships, sometimes historically established communities cross township lines, or a township has multiple distinct "places" that residents have always identified with separately.

 

So like in the Cincinnati burbs you might know the place you live as Dent or Monfort Heights, even though you live in Green Township, so the Census wants to collect data on those places and not just on the township. On the Kentucky side, there are no townships. There are cities, and if you don't live in one, then the county provides all of your services. Burlington, the county seat of Boone County, is not actually incorporated, so to get statistical information about Burlington, the Census has to create a boundary.

Likewise, Silver Spring, Maryland, in the DC burbs, has 81,000 people but it has not ever actually been incorporated. Residents know their community as Silver Spring, but services are all provided by the county and it isn't clear where Silver Spring actually ends. So the Census has tried to create a boundary that represents consensus and then reports data for that boundary. There boundaries, again, or just for statistical counting and reporting.

 

One final example would be Ardmore, PA, in the Philly burbs. Ardmore was a community created by the Pennsylvania Railroad. Today, residents will say they live in Ardmore, but it actually straddles two townships (Lower Merion and Haverford) in two different counties (Montgomery and Delaware). Your local government is provided by the township and the county, but residents know Ardmore as one community--so the Census wants to be able to report statistical information about Ardmore, as well as the two townships.

^thanks for the info. I just don't remember this term being used at all before 2010 (and even more so in the 2020 census). I didn't realize a place as large as Silver Spring is a census designated place, but I just looked on a list and found that roughly 75% (maybe more) of the places in Maryland are classified like this!  It just seems distinctions like this add more confusion when comparing census data of cities and states than providing clarification for the "outside," majority non-census world who rely on this information when making personal choices on where to live or business decisions based on demographics.  

42 minutes ago, eastvillagedon said:

^thanks for the info. I just don't remember this term being used at all before 2010 (and even more so in the 2020 census). I didn't realize a place as large as Silver Spring is a census designated place, but I just looked on a list and found that roughly 75% (maybe more) of the places in Maryland are classified like this!  It just seems distinctions like this add more confusion when comparing census data of cities and states than providing clarification for the "outside," majority non-census world who rely on this information when making personal choices on where to live or business decisions based on demographics.  

 

Yea, Maryland has A LOT of unincorporated areas because they don't have townships and they have a strong county government. I don't think it causes confusion though. When most people are looking to relocate they don't really pay attention what kind of municipality it is (or whether it is one at all). The CDP designation is just so there is a relatively uniform way to compare data. More confusing is the different types of municipalities in each state. Pennsylvania "boroughs," Ohio "villages," New England "towns," etc.

Most populated Census Designated Place in the USA - Paradise, Nevada, home to the "Las Vegas" Strip which is technically outside of the the City of Las Vegas proper. The  big casino owners resisted annexation way back in the day so it's really just unincorporated Clark County from a services perspective. The Census refers to it as Paradise.

 

That being said, many CDPs refer to colloquial names for unincorporated towns. You see it less in Northeastern Ohio than in the rest of the state, such as in Hamilton County where a lot of the suburbs are still unincorporated.

1 hour ago, DEPACincy said:

 

Yea, Maryland has A LOT of unincorporated areas because they don't have townships and they have a strong county government. I don't think it causes confusion though. When most people are looking to relocate they don't really pay attention what kind of municipality it is (or whether it is one at all). The CDP designation is just so there is a relatively uniform way to compare data. More confusing is the different types of municipalities in each state. Pennsylvania "boroughs," Ohio "villages," New England "towns," etc.

 

One interesting thing I noticed when living in Columbus is that people have no idea where they live. 

 

School District can be different than City/Township which can be different from a third designation we haven't mentioned yet - mailing address. Confusion is much more rare in Cuyahoga County where the dividing lines for all three typically are the same. But in Columbus you have people who have no literally have no idea what jurisdiction they fall into. The realtors say things like this house has "Columbus taxes, Gahanna schools" etc. 

 

I also knew a Cincy westside guy in college, Elder grad. He was from Delhi Township and he swore he was from Cincinnati because of the mailing address. I tried to explain to him that he wasn't actually from Cincinnati, he was from a suburb, but he didn't want to hear it.

Edited October 22, 20213 yr by mu2010

20 hours ago, DEPACincy said:

 

Yea, Maryland has A LOT of unincorporated areas because they don't have townships and they have a strong county government.

Maryland doesn't actually like any municipality not named Baltimore.  The laws are quite restrictive for what municipalities can do, except for Baltimore. Lots of town names are just post offices. "Chevy Chase", for example, is actually 7 different small municipalities plus one or two special taxing districts, total population about 7,500.  Bethesda, right next door, is about 68,000 but is unincorporated. But both locations have Montgomery County schools.  Interestingly, most of the Chevy Chases have lower taxes because 1) the county reduces their tax by the county's cost of providing duplicative services and 2) the Chevy Chases do it cheaper - their tax being less than the county taxes forgiven for the same services.  The county is a perfect example of diseconomy of scale.

Edited October 23, 20213 yr by Dougal

17 minutes ago, Dougal said:

Maryland doesn't actually like any municipality not named Baltimore.  The laws are quite restrictive for what municipalities can do, except for Baltimore. Lots of town names are just post offices. "Chevy Chase", for example, is actually 7 different small municipalities plus one or two special taxing districts, total population about 7,500.  Bethesda, right next door, is about 68,000 but is unincorporated. But both locations have Montgomery County schools.  Interestingly, most of the Chevy Chases have lower taxes because 1) the county reduces their tax by the county's cost of providing duplicative services and 2) the Chevy Chases do it cheaper - their tax being than the county taxes forgiven for the same services.  The county is a perfect example of diseconomy of scale.

 

Learn something new every day.

11 minutes ago, KJP said:

 

Learn something new every day.

I used to be chairman of one of the CC's councils.  My little stint in public office.  🙂

some discussion via ssp -- cle census results vs chicago and buffalo:

 

 

 

like all rust belt cities, cleveland is dealing with a very stiff black flight demographic headwind, but as i mentioned earlier, unlike some rust-belters it also still saw some significant white flight as well.

Cleveland demographic changes 2010-2020:

black: -31,395 (-15.1%)
white: -13,163 (-9.9%)
latino: +9,165 (+23.2%)
asian: +3,177 (+44.0%)
other: +8,025 (+87.7%)
_______________________

total: -24,191 (-6.1%)


now, it did see very strong percentage growths in the other demos, but they were starting from such relatively small bases that they weren't able to overcome the 1 - 2 punch of both continued black and white flight.

in chicago's case, we too experienced a large amount of black flight (-85K, -9.7%), but it was more than off set by positive gains in all the other groups (+135K, +7.4%), to more than make up the difference with a net gain of +50K, +1.9%.

i believe chicago and buffalo were the only two major rust-belt central cities that saw population growth last decade. buffalo is a bit of an outlier because it actually saw a very modest gain in its black population, but also experienced some continued white flight. very strong gains in latinos, asians, and others powered it to the best city-proper growth of the major rust-belters (+6.5%)

Cincinnati had its first population growth since the 1950s in the newest Census results as well. Up approximately 4%

Edited November 16, 20213 yr by OliverHazardPerry

yes, i think cinci, buffalo and chicago were the only three growth cities around the rust belt. or rust belt fringes i guess.

Maybe Cleveland next time?

welp, in order for that to happen the clev has to stop the white and black flight.

 

otherwise, seems its doing pretty well.

 

i do wonder if most of the black/white flight was earlier in the decade than later, so maybe its already slowed up?

 

i dk, but i would hope so.

On 11/16/2021 at 12:48 PM, mrnyc said:

welp, in order for that to happen the clev has to stop the white and black flight.

 

otherwise, seems its doing pretty well.

 

i do wonder if most of the black/white flight was earlier in the decade than later, so maybe its already slowed up?

 

i dk, but i would hope so.

That's the info I'd like to know, even for the Metro numbers. That would help indicate what the trajectory looks like now given the very modest metro growth numbers we had.

 

Did the bleeding stop somewhere in the mid or late 2010s and we are now on a positive trajectory? That's the info I'd like to see.

On 10/22/2021 at 5:55 PM, mu2010 said:

 

One interesting thing I noticed when living in Columbus is that people have no idea where they live. 

 

School District can be different than City/Township which can be different from a third designation we haven't mentioned yet - mailing address. Confusion is much more rare in Cuyahoga County where the dividing lines for all three typically are the same. But in Columbus you have people who have no literally have no idea what jurisdiction they fall into. The realtors say things like this house has "Columbus taxes, Gahanna schools" etc. 

 

I also knew a Cincy westside guy in college, Elder grad. He was from Delhi Township and he swore he was from Cincinnati because of the mailing address. I tried to explain to him that he wasn't actually from Cincinnati, he was from a suburb, but he didn't want to hear it.

 

 

yes, columbus has (or had, way back when we lived there) something called win-win with the surrounding suburbs, where taxes and schools are split on the shared borderline fringes. for example, the two southernmost schools in westerville school district are actually in columbus city, in minerva park and huber ridge neighborhoods. this kind of thing was a bit weird, but it seemed to work.

 

ohio is weird in general for all its varied school districts vs the rest of america. i think there are, or were, like a dozen types of school districts, whereas most states have only a few. and btw its not, or wasn't, if has been streamlined over the years, a bad thing. ohio has a very strong history of local school rule, so neighboring cities, or often rural areas, will group schools together as they see fit.

On 10/22/2021 at 5:50 PM, mu2010 said:

Most populated Census Designated Place in the USA - Paradise, Nevada, home to the "Las Vegas" Strip which is technically outside of the the City of Las Vegas proper. The  big casino owners resisted annexation way back in the day so it's really just unincorporated Clark County from a services perspective. The Census refers to it as Paradise.

 

 

that is interesting. i would imagine the opposite, given it's hotels. are the hotel occupants counted as residents or something?

 

can someone explain how temporary residents are counted? like in college towns, hospitals and jails?

^Paradise, NV is a much larger area than just the strip. It is considered an "unincorporated town" under Nevada state law. There's actually another unincorporated town between Paradise and the City of Las Vegas, known as Winchester.

 

 

The census counts people where they are living as of census day (April 1st), so someone living in a college dorm or jail would be counted there. I imagine someone staying in a hospital should still be counted at home unless it is a long-term care situation. 

5 minutes ago, ink said:

^Paradise, NV is a much larger area than just the strip. It is considered an "unincorporated town" under Nevada state law. There's actually another unincorporated town between Paradise and the City of Las Vegas, known as Winchester.

 

 

The census counts people where they are living as of census day (April 1st), so someone living in a college dorm or jail would be counted there. I imagine someone staying in a hospital should still be counted at home unless it is a long-term care situation. 

 

 

but what does where they are living mean? because unless you get a random census worker visit, you designate where you live.

 

i mean college dorm kids would put their hometown down as where they live. or mostly would. people in jail and hospitals are also temporary, so they would put their home for the census. and what about the hotels? that would be significant in a place like vegas if counted. these situations seem seems ripe for double dipping.

^Dorms and jail responses are made by the institution, not the resident.

 

Theoretically the census bureau has processes to eliminate counting the same person twice.

2 minutes ago, ink said:

^Dorms and jail responses are made by the institution, not the resident.

 

Theoretically the census bureau has processes to eliminate counting the same person twice.

 

 

what about the vegas hotels then?

29 minutes ago, mrnyc said:

 

 

what about the vegas hotels then?

 

The Census form isn't sent to hotels. It's only sent to residences. It says "count the people who live and sleep here most of the time." It also says "do not count anyone living away from here, either in college or the armed forces" and "do not count anyone in a nursing home, jail, prison, detention facility, etc." Those people are counted by the institutions they are currently residing at. 

 

EDIT to add: If I fill out the form for my address and my kid in college also tries to fill out the form for my address there will be a follow up by the Census Bureau to rectify the count and make sure that people are counted at the right place. Kids who are in college but live off campus should get a form at their residence and fill it out to reflect where they live. There is definitely some undercounting in college towns, but colleges and towns typically have campaigns to make sure everyone gets counted because it is important to them. And of course Census workers follow up to addresses that don't return the form (or fill it out online).

Edited November 18, 20213 yr by DEPACincy

59 minutes ago, DEPACincy said:

 

The Census form isn't sent to hotels. It's only sent to residences. It says "count the people who live and sleep here most of the time." It also says "do not count anyone living away from here, either in college or the armed forces" and "do not count anyone in a nursing home, jail, prison, detention facility, etc." Those people are counted by the institutions they are currently residing at. 

Interesting. So when cities talk about their local populations, do they include people in jails, prisons, detention facilities? I'd always assumed they do i.e. Cleveland's downtown population includes those jailed at the Justice Center and Fairfax counts those jailed at the Juvenile Detention Center.

 

If so, then the census metrics seem to oppose local ones.

1 hour ago, DEPACincy said:

The Census form isn't sent to hotels. It's only sent to residences. It says "count the people who live and sleep here most of the time." It also says "do not count anyone living away from here, either in college or the armed forces" and "do not count anyone in a nursing home, jail, prison, detention facility, etc." Those people are counted by the institutions they are currently residing at. 

Do they distinguish between nursing home and assisted living?  My mom is in an assisted living facility.  They sent a census form to her which I completed on her behalf.

40 minutes ago, TBideon said:

Interesting. So when cities talk about their local populations, do they include people in jails, prisons, detention facilities? I'd always assumed they do i.e. Cleveland's downtown population includes those jailed at the Justice Center and Fairfax counts those jailed at the Juvenile Detention Center.

 

If so, then the census metrics seem to oppose local ones.

 

The census includes people in jails. They are not included in the "population in households" number but they are included in the overall population number. So the census number for downtown Cleveland includes the people in the jail. They are counted as "population in group quarters."

14 minutes ago, LibertyBlvd said:

Do they distinguish between nursing home and assisted living?  My mom is in an assisted living facility.  They sent a census form to her which I completed on her behalf.

 

It's a little hazy. Most assisted living facilities are not considered "group quarters" like nursing homes are. So most likely she is not included as "group quarters" and is instead included as a household of one. 

 

However, even people in group quarters will get a census form (including students in dorms). Because even though the institution is reporting that you live there, they want you to fill out the form to get your other statistical information. However, if you don't fill out the form you are still counted since the institution has reported that information.

I should add, there are remote circumstances where someone's address may be a hotel. The Census Bureau makes an effort to track down everyone, including transient and homeless people without a permanent address. In those cases, they are counted where they sleep most of the time, based on their own recollection. So if I don't have a home but I usually sleep at the Motel 6 in North Olmsted, then that's where I'll be counted.

 

Another hypothetical would be someone who lives in Cleveland eight months out of the year, but has a condo in Florida where they stay four months out of the year. Even if they are at their Florida condo on April 1st, they are instructed to report their Cleveland address, because that is where they live most of the time. However, there are certainly some number of people who don't follow directions very well and would report their Florida address since they are there at that moment. If you got a form at both addresses and tried to fill them both out then someone from the Census Bureau would follow up to rectify the situation.

ha, i figured these issues were nothing new to the census bureau, even if they are to some of us.

 

what seems straightforward is not so easy as it seems.

 

thx for explaining!

Regarding some of the above discussion, it's important to add that question phrasing changed with the 2020 census, so a significant percentage of the "black flight" is really just people who identified as black in 2010 identifying as "other" in 2020. That explains the enormous growth in the "other" category. With this in mind, I believe the data shows most of the black flight is just to suburbs, not out of the metro.

For those of you not on Reddit someone posted on the sub about I’d people might move back to Cleveland due to lower cost of living and people now permanently working from home and the post already has over 100 people commenting many saying they have moved back from CA and NY and places like that now that they can permanently work from home.

57 minutes ago, cle_guy90 said:

For those of you not on Reddit someone posted on the sub about I’d people might move back to Cleveland due to lower cost of living and people now permanently working from home and the post already has over 100 people commenting many saying they have moved back from CA and NY and places like that now that they can permanently work from home.

 

The 2020 Census results are questionable from covid messing up things where people would normally be to the shenanigans by the Trump administration. I would love see a mid-decennial census on April 1, 2025---as by then (hopefully) Covid movements will have settled including any lasting work from home patterns. We could then have a better picture of how things really are in the city. Even if 2020 was accurate, 2025 may be a very different city given the development between 2020 and 2025 and from the longer-term effects of covid. We had a Special Census in '65 of certain neighborhoods done by the Census Bureau, so a mid-Census census of the city is not unprecedented.

 

EDIT:   I just looked for and found it. Here's a copy of the Special Census if anyone is interested:  https://www2.census.gov/library/publications/1967/demographics/p23-021.pdf

Edited December 1, 20213 yr by Pugu

Is there a copy of neighborhood censuses? Id love to see tremonts most info i found from a cursory search was outdated.

I sure hope cleveland turns around. So much is left to preserve and if people keep leaving much more will inevitably be demolished. Though i believe university circle will be one of the greatest catalysts for the surrounding areas in a long time.

People are no longer leaving as a net change. Poor families are being replaced by young professionals without children. That's why the number of occupied housing units has actually gone up but the population has fallen. So if we talk about the changes and population let's be more accurate about what's happening here.

1 hour ago, KJP said:

People are no longer leaving as a net change. Poor families are being replaced by young professionals without children. That's why the number of occupied housing units has actually gone up but the population has fallen. So if we talk about the changes and population let's be more accurate about what's happening here.

A more important data set that is going to hold more weight than population change is going to be median income. If that increases significantly in the next decade with housing units still increasing then we are in good shape. 

Edited December 2, 20213 yr by KFM44107

I recently started a new job, and over the last few weeks I've been amazed at the number of people I've met who have just moved here from out of state. A few of them are in tech and moved here as they are now working remotely. One was here to open a second office for his IT business. One of my coworkers even moved here a few months ago from Tuscan (she absolutely loves it here). It's definitely not like the days of old when people only moved out of Cleveland with no one moving in.

1 hour ago, PoshSteve said:

I recently started a new job, and over the last few weeks I've been amazed at the number of people I've met who have just moved here from out of state. .... One of my coworkers even moved here a few months ago from Tuscan (she absolutely loves it here). 

Hi @PoshSteve No doubting your veracity... but I wonder a lot how is it even possible to adjust to the NE Ohio climate if one moves from a high desert Southwest city such as Tucson?     My guess is that either you need to be a one tough cookie or have a family connection here to do so.   Hopefully, she is still feeling positive in the middle of February.🤒

10 minutes ago, DO_Summers said:

Hi @PoshSteve No doubting your veracity... but I wonder a lot how is it even possible to adjust to the NE Ohio climate if one moves from a high desert Southwest city such as Tucson?     My guess is that either you need to be a one tough cookie or have a family connection here to do so.   Hopefully, she is still feeling positive in the middle of February.🤒

Probably the same way people adjust to moving from the Northeast to a climate like the high desert in May-September honestly.

Its definitely not the a simple two-way juxtaposition as you might imagine @Mov2Ohio.  Because of its high elevation, the night time temperatures in the summer months are quite pleasant.  All I meant was climate differences - not a quality of life comparison.      

1 hour ago, DO_Summers said:

Hi @PoshSteve No doubting your veracity... but I wonder a lot how is it even possible to adjust to the NE Ohio climate if one moves from a high desert Southwest city such as Tucson?     My guess is that either you need to be a one tough cookie or have a family connection here to do so.   Hopefully, she is still feeling positive in the middle of February.🤒

 

I really don't think weather is such a big deal as some make it out to be. Yes, when you're 90 you feel the cold more, so you move south. But younger people move by the millions from warm places to the north as the north is more developed than the south. How many Dominicans in NYC or Mexicans in Chicago or Africans in France or England? It happens every day and its not a big deal. Yeah its cold for a few months but overall lives are better. I think many in Cleveland make it a bigger deal than do the people who actually make such moves.

Grey days are harsh. Depressing. Unhealthy. And clearly weather is a factor for a lot of people of varying ages. I wouldn't undersell it.

Edited December 3, 20213 yr by TBideon

3 hours ago, PoshSteve said:

I recently started a new job, and over the last few weeks I've been amazed at the number of people I've met who have just moved here from out of state. A few of them are in tech and moved here as they are now working remotely. One was here to open a second office for his IT business. One of my coworkers even moved here a few months ago from Tuscan (she absolutely loves it here). It's definitely not like the days of old when people only moved out of Cleveland with no one moving in.

We’ve had several similar out of state hires where I work as well.  In the past 2 months, we’ve hired people from Chicago, Asheville, Philadelphia, and Missouri.  All have relocated to the near westside or are in the process.  And one new hire from Texas moved to Lakewood.

Two weeks ago we hosted a family in the process of relocating here from Nashville. The wife recently accepted a job with SHW downtown and her hubby does web design remotely. 
 

First impressions were they were blown away by the city, park system and also couldn't believe we have beaches!
 

Before leaving town they put in an offer, which was accepted, on a new build in Battery Park. 

It's so friggin' cool meeting people from all over the country and hearing such positive feedback. 

 

 

Edited December 3, 20213 yr by Clefan98

8 hours ago, TBideon said:

Grey days are harsh. Depressing. Unhealthy. And clearly weather is a factor for a lot of people of varying ages. I wouldn't undersell it.

I wouldn't oversell it either.
 

I have friends in phoenix considering a move back here due to the extreme heat. They can't even run outside at 4am in the summers anymore. Energy costs for cooling is another drag, and the water situation sure as hell ain't getting any better out west. 
 

But sure, go whine and complain over three chilly months. 

9 hours ago, Pugu said:

Yeah its cold for a few months but overall lives are better. I think many in Cleveland make it a bigger deal than do the people who actually make such moves.

 

I wish our local meteorologists would stop making every snow event sound like the storm of the century.  

10 hours ago, DO_Summers said:

Its definitely not the a simple two-way juxtaposition as you might imagine @Mov2Ohio.  Because of its high elevation, the night time temperatures in the summer months are quite pleasant.  All I meant was climate differences - not a quality of life comparison.      

I get what you're saying, and yes it does cool off at night somewhat in the high desert.

 

I was just saying much the same way as we up here can't spend as much time outside December through March because of the cold, people in the desert can't spend as much time outside May through August or so because of the heat.

 

Pleasant weather averages out between both areas through the other seasons. That's all.

 

She came here in early March of this year, so she's already seen some snow and gloomy weather. Doesn't bother her at all. She said she's enjoying the neighborhoods and quality of life here better, and the weather isn't a problem when there are things to do. 

 

And as another example, we had someone else new start today too. She and her husband just moved here from Los Angeles. Her husband went remote with his work, and she was ready for a change. She specifically said one of the reasons they chose Cleveland was the prices and cost of living. Before anyone brings up the weather again, the girl from Tuscan asked her what she thinks of of. She said she is excited for the snow and brought up the "24 inches in one storm last year" (I'm in Shaker and don't remember anything near like that last year) that she wants to experience lol.

Last March had only one or two overcast days in Cleveland. However awful climate change is becoming, it's likely to become a boon for the Great Lakes region -- aside from record-high lake levels and shoreline erosion which hopefully we'll guard against. 

I don’t think the weather is close to the biggest factor in people moving south. Over the last ten years, a huge chunk of the relocations to TX and AZ have been from CA. And I don’t think there are many people out there who prefer most TX or AZ weather to most CA weather. It’s about standard of living, and the kids of folks who move to Phoenix and Las Vegas today will be NOPE!-ing right out in 25 years when they’re faced with $500 a month water bills. 
 

To bring this back to Cleveland, the census data shows pretty clearly that the population loss is coming from impoverished neighborhoods like Kinsman and Mt Pleasant. Making those neighborhoods (at least most of them) into livable places that residents don’t feel the need to flee is probably the biggest key to unlocking growth.

^ to piggyback off this… investment into the city’s east side outside of UC is so desperately needed. To keep the residents already there is so crucial and overlooked. Hope Bibb, his team, and others can pick up the chaos left from Frank.