6 hours ago, KJP said:

The data by itself doesn't say what's causing this but it is very interesting and worth looking into and analyzing over an extended period.

 

EDIT: while persons commuting from the Akron, Canton and Youngstown MSAs is probably the biggest source, could some be the result of people relocating here for jobs but not yet updating their residency (driver's licenses, tax records, utility bills, etc.) information?

I wonder if health care training is a big reason for that. The Clinic and UH employ thousands of people who are here just for research, training and/or continuing education. Some are here for months, some years. You have a sizable chunk that stay here permanently but I know plenty who consider this a temporary stop and move on. 

Dougal--interesting comparison, thanks. As metro Cleveland extends into, at the very least, Summit and Portage counties, can you re-run your Cleveland number as the full 7-county area? 

@Dougal What's the timeframe of this data?

11 hours ago, Pugu said:

Dougal--interesting comparison, thanks. As metro Cleveland extends into, at the very least, Summit and Portage counties, can you re-run your Cleveland number as the full 7-county area? 

 

No, the data I'm using are aggregated at the MSA level, although they probably are available at the county level if I looked harder. Interestingly, however, the Akron/Canton MSA has a negative number running 10-15,000 all year, compared to Cleveland's positive 60,000. 

 

8 hours ago, KJP said:

@Dougal What's the timeframe of this data?

 

November, 2018.  I looked back five years and the Cleveland MSA was consistently positive but the number grew throughout the period with one small hiccup in 2016.

Nov 2013 - positive 4,600

Nov 2014 - positive 21,000

Nov 2015 - positive 49,000

Nov 2016 - positive 36,000

Nov 2017 - positive 41,000

Nov 2018 - positive 60,000

 

Edit:  I'm using numbers from:  https://www.bls.gov/regions/home.htm

 

On 1/6/2019 at 12:34 AM, Mwd711 said:

I wonder if health care training is a big reason for that. The Clinic and UH employ thousands of people who are here just for research, training and/or continuing education. Some are here for months, some years. You have a sizable chunk that stay here permanently but I know plenty who consider this a temporary stop and move on. 

That wouldn't matter would it? If they are living here, even if only for a few years, they are living here and counted in the MSA and CSA numbers. When they leave, they are no longer counted. The trend though shows the number increasing, so if they are leaving then more people are moving in to replace them. Even if only temporarily.

Can't say Cleveland doesn't have jobs. Unexpected and pleasant surprise. Encouraging!

*Are these unfilled positions?

 

Edited January 7, 20196 yr by Mildtraumatic

12 hours ago, Dougal said:

 

No, the data I'm using are aggregated at the MSA level, although they probably are available at the county level if I looked harder. Interestingly, however, the Akron/Canton MSA has a negative number running 10-15,000 all year, compared to Cleveland's positive 60,000.

 

 

I think this further proves that what freefourur was getting at is correct (and also shows how the MSA boundaries for Cleveland and Akron are inaccurate).  Many people likely live in the Akron MSA but work in the Cleveland MSA, which is probably a big factor in these numbers being so far positive for Cleveland yet negative for Akron.  In reality, many of the people living in the Akron MSA and working in the Cleveland MSA live in one of the suburbs many of us consider to be Cleveland suburbs that happen to lie within Summit or Portage Counties.

20 minutes ago, jam40jeff said:

 

I think this further proves that what freefourur was getting at is correct (and also shows how the MSA boundaries for Cleveland and Akron are inaccurate).  Many people likely live in the Akron MSA but work in the Cleveland MSA, which is probably a big factor in these numbers being so far positive for Cleveland yet negative for Akron.  In reality, many of the people living in the Akron MSA and working in the Cleveland MSA live in one of the suburbs many of us consider to be Cleveland suburbs that happen to lie within Summit or Portage Counties.

There definitely needs to be more research on this to get to the bottom of it. Be very worthwhile. Wonder what these numbers look like historically going back decades?

 

Edited January 7, 20196 yr by Mildtraumatic

On 1/7/2019 at 2:13 PM, Mildtraumatic said:

There definitely needs to be more research on this to get to the bottom of it. Be very worthwhile. Wonder what these numbers look like historically going back decades?

 

I'm not going to do all the work, but here's a sampling as far back as the database goes (1990):

Cleveland MSA nonfarm jobs minus laborforce (November for all years):

2010 - positive 41,000

2005 - negative 5,000

2000 - positive 43,000

1995 - negative 21,000

1990 - positive 6,000

 

So the number went negative in the mid-aughts and the mid-ninties. Also numbers under 10,000, about 1%,   probably represent near-equilibrium and can be ignored

 

The absolute numbers are also interesting. For example, the workforce in 1990 was only 3,200 more than in 2018 despite a much larger population.  I guess we can conclude that a greater share of the population is  working now - or does this confirm the idea that households are the same except today we have fewer children per household?   An expert is needed if you want to draw conclusions.  Thus my friend's comment that Cleveland's current huge difference is a real fact and a population lure; but it's hard to make much predictive of it without looking at lots more comparative city data. 

People living in Twinsburg and working in Solon would count as being outside the MSA.

 

i tried using the measuring tool in Google Earth, and it may only be 15 miles or less from downtown Cleveland to the closest MSA boundary, where Sagamoe Hills juts into Cuyahoga County.

 

all this means is the Cleveland MSA is in reality meaningless

But that doesn't account for all of Cleveland's 60,000 surplus or Akron/Canton's 10,000 deficit.

No, not all 60,000.  I was just trying to illustrate how meaningless the Cleveland MSA borders are.

 

 

I didn't mean for this to turn into another discussion about combining MSAs. I think Akron and Cleveland have separate MSAs but they just happen to overlap.

I don't think it has. We're trying to pull apart the numbers to figure out what they mean and what's driving them.

The thing about that 60,000 number: it's net.  The MSA workforce includes about 44,000 unemployed within the region, so the MSA is pulling more like 100,000 people from Ashtabula, Youngstown, Sandusky, Medina, etc.  Undoubtedly some of the 44,000 unemployed are prevented from working by lack of transportation to suburban jobs (Meijer hiring 900 for jobs ringing Cuyahoga county, for example).  If Opportunity Corridor is going to work bringing jobs closer to people who need them, we should see some industrial construction announcement this year - if we don't, then maybe the OC won't do what was hoped.

I think these numbers show that Cleveland is a much bigger draw for jobs for people living outside the MSA than vice versa.  For instance, Ashtabula is not part of the MSA anymore.  But I personally know many people who live in Ashtabula and work in either Mentor or Cleveland.  I don't know a single person who lives in the Cleveland MSA and works in Ashtabula.

 

As mentioned before, I'm pretty certain many more people living in the Akron MSA in areas we consider to be Cleveland suburbs work in the Cleveland MSA than vice versa.

 

Places like Erie and Huron counties also likely contribute substantially more workers to the Cleveland MSA than jobs to workers that live in the Cleveland MSA.

 

This all adds up to numbers that make it look like there are 60,000 unfilled positions, when likely almost all of them are probably filled by people living outside of the Cleveland MSA, with very little jobs outside of the Cleveland MSA filled by residents of the metro area.

 

This phenomenon is probably more pronounced here than it is in other cities because those cities don't have an Akron 40 miles away which contributes more workers than jobs.

Edited January 10, 20196 yr by jam40jeff

All true, but the data shows that the net between Cleveland and the Akron/Canton MSAs is still a positive 50,000 nonfarm jobs. So what's the story? Could it be that some of those 50,000 jobs haven't been filled, but some have and that the people who have moved to the area in the last few months to grab those jobs haven't changed their addresses/taxes/utility records/etc and thus aren't counted yet as residents? Is there a lag between people moving into an MSA and the government's accounting/reporting of it?

Edited January 10, 20196 yr by KJP

18 minutes ago, KJP said:

All true, but the data shows that the net between Cleveland and the Akron/Canton MSAs is still a positive 50,000 nonfarm jobs. So what's the story?

 

It's not even close to 50,000.

 

Here are the numbers:

 

Cleveland - (58,900)

Akron - 11,900

Canton - 22,700

 

Thus, if you only take Cleveland, Akron, and Canton into account, the surplus is 24,300 jobs.  I would bet that Ashtabula, Youngstown, and Sandusky would account for most of that.  (Youngstown alone has 18,500 more people in the labor force than jobs, but their residents who work outside the MSA are likely split between multiple MSA and non-MSA areas.)

 

Sources:

https://www.bls.gov/regions/midwest/oh_cleveland_msa.htm

https://www.bls.gov/regions/midwest/oh_akron_msa.htm

https://www.bls.gov/regions/midwest/oh_canton_msa.htm

https://www.bls.gov/regions/midwest/oh_youngstown_msa.htm

Edited January 10, 20196 yr by jam40jeff

^ And you have to consider the jobs that are at the edge of the Cleveland MSA like Lake County.  Many people commute from Ashtabula to Lake county to work.  

1 hour ago, KJP said:

All true, but the data shows that the net between Cleveland and the Akron/Canton MSAs is still a positive 50,000 nonfarm jobs. So what's the story? Could it be that some of those 50,000 jobs haven't been filled, but some have and that the people who have moved to the area in the last few months to grab those jobs haven't changed their addresses/taxes/utility records/etc and thus aren't counted yet as residents? Is there a lag between people moving into an MSA and the government's accounting/reporting of it?

 

People casually refer to the data showing "jobs," but I'm pretty sure it's counting headcount.  So unfilled jobs aren't really part of the mix.  And the source of the "jobs" data is a survey of firms, so any data errors won't have anything to do with individual people not changing their personal records.  

 

There are three very obvious explanations for the gap between employed workforce and "jobs": One is commuters from outside the MSA, as several people have suggested. Another is part time jobs, meaning one person in the workforce might correspond to multiple "jobs."  And the third is a persistent and uniform bias in one of the two data sets. Both sets are based on survey samples (one of people, the other of employers) so have fairly large margins of error.

Thanks!

Maybe this explains all those Steelers jerseys we see around here.  We're absorbing Pittsburgh's huddled masses yearning to be free.

The latest, most interesting out-of-state license plate I've seen...

 

What are the source of those numbers? I'm a little confused by them. Have the areas covered by the CDCs changed between those time? If the physical land area hasn't changed, and the total population has decreased (ex Little Italy) how has the density increased?

 

Also, am I assuming that for the areas overlapping, such as Gateway and Downtown, the Gateway numbers are included in the Downtown numbers?

 

Edit: I was told the boundaries of the CDCs have changed between the two samples taken. In that case, it is misleading to compare population and density changes if the areas being measured are not the same. Still interesting to see the numbers of people represented, but the numbers should be taken with an asterisk.

Edited January 29, 20196 yr by PoshSteve

For what it's worth:

 

My wife and I recently toured Cleveland Clinic Fairview Hospital maternity ward for our upcoming kiddo. 

 

Six couples were on the tour, and we had our group introductions.  Five of the six couples had relocated to the Cleveland area within the past 9 months -- no joke!  A couple were boomerangs (including us), but they were also returning with +1 or +2 or +3 back to the metro area.  And a few were completely new to the area.

 

The nurse even made a comment about how all her recent tours have been mostly newcomers...or something to that effect. 

 

----

 

We can probably put this in the same bucket as out-of-town license plates...but it seemed like too odd of an experience not to report back here.

Edited February 4, 20196 yr by MuRrAy HiLL

^Congrats on the kiddo!

 

@PoshSteve I'm interested in the source of that data as well, and I'm pretty sure the service area of the CDCs changed in 2014 (and I think census tracts/block groups changed from 2000 to 2010), so comparing the numbers for these areas could be very misleading.

6 minutes ago, andrew0816 said:

@PoshSteve I'm interested in the source of that data as well, and I'm pretty sure the service area of the CDCs changed in 2014 (and I think census tracts/block groups changed from 2000 to 2010), so comparing the numbers for these areas could be very misleading.

 

Not sure how the CDCs, census tracts, and SPAs are all interconnected. but the city SPAs definitely changed from 2010 to 2014:

 

2010: http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/2010census/downloads/SPAs.pdf

2014: http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/2010census/downloads/All_SPAs_2014.pdf

 

2014 are the current SPA borders according to the city website.

Edited February 4, 20196 yr by MuRrAy HiLL

@MuRrAy HiLL The city city aggregates census tracts into their SPAs.

 

And I looked at the tweet further and saw that he got his information from http://progressindexcle.org which is a data tool created by Cleveland Neighborhood Progress and the Center on Urban Poverty and Community Development at Case Western Reserve University. Their website says that they use the city's SPAs and that "CDC service areas are defined by the City of Cleveland’s Department of  Community Development. Yearly, Cleveland Neighborhood Progress facilitates any updates or modifications to the service area  definitions."

 

But I still don't understand why there are options for DCA, Gateway, and Flats Forward as the service areas for some of those overlap either with each other or with the city's SPAs. And their mapping tool seems to be inaccurate. Their CDC map shows the Hough Development Corp including parts of Downtown and then doesn't show a service area for Downtown Cleveland Alliance (try this link to see what I mean). Also, the mapping tool had the 2006-2011 and 2011-2016 data sets but the population tool had data for 2007-2011 and 2012-2016. And the website has options for neighborhood level data and CDC level data, which might not align with each other since some CDCs have service areas that don't align with neighborhood boundaries.

 

As an example I'm going to look at Bellaire-Puritas:

• Neighborhood Level
  • 2007-2011: 13,914
  • 2012-2016: 14,569
• Bellaire Puritas Community Dev. Corp. (service area is larger than the Bellaire-Puritas neighborhood boundaries)
  • 2007-2011: 25,160
  • 2012-2016: 24,341
• Trivisonno Post:
  • Same as the CDCs numbers, but he lists the dates as 2006-2011 and 2011-2016, maybe that's a typo?

Speaking of being confused, I’ve seen various references to Cleveland’s metropolitan population, with one article sourced in the Forum saying that it had fallen to the 3rd largest in the state, behind Columbus and Cincy, which alarmed me. However, when including Akron- Canton in the metro, Cleveland is as high as the 14th or 15th biggest in the country. (See thoughtco.com)  What is most commonly considered the Cleveland Metropolitan area? 

20 minutes ago, CleveFan said:

Speaking of being confused, I’ve seen various references to Cleveland’s metropolitan population, with one article sourced in the Forum saying that it had fallen to the 3rd largest in the state, behind Columbus and Cincy, which alarmed me. However, when including Akron- Canton in the metro, Cleveland is as high as the 14th or 15th biggest in the country. (See thoughtco.com)  What is most commonly considered the Cleveland Metropolitan area? 

 

According to the official US metro areas/definitions, Cleveland has fallen to 3rd place behind Cincinnati and Columbus. 

 

As of 2017

Cincinnati - 2,179,082 +3.05%

Columbus - 2,078,725 +9.29%

Cleveland - 2,058,844 −0.89%

 

I'm not here to get into a size war over City/MSA/CSA and what city is what and that whole can of worms, technically in terms of officially designated metros in for the 3C's, Cleveland is the 3rd largest. Do not shoot the messenger. 

49 minutes ago, CleveFan said:

Speaking of being confused, I’ve seen various references to Cleveland’s metropolitan population, with one article sourced in the Forum saying that it had fallen to the 3rd largest in the state, behind Columbus and Cincy, which alarmed me. However, when including Akron- Canton in the metro, Cleveland is as high as the 14th or 15th biggest in the country. (See thoughtco.com)  What is most commonly considered the Cleveland Metropolitan area? 

 

Yeah it's pretty much how you want to look at it:

 

NEO has something like 4.5 million people.

 

Cleveland MSA is 2.1 million 

Cleveland CSA is 3.6 million

 

When you go by TV markets, Cleveland by far the largest in Ohio ranking at roughly 17th. 

 

https://www.stationindex.com/tv/tv-markets

 

I've always thought it weird Cleveland can't count bordering counties in its MSA (Summit and Portage).

 

 

Edited February 4, 20196 yr by MuRrAy HiLL

Can we leave this alone?  Not to be That Guy (again)... but there's a couple of things going on here that can't be ignored, as population growth follows job growth:

 

1)  Cleveland's regional population has been stagnate, at best, for going on 50 years.  Time stands still for no one, not even Cleveland.  Columbus and Cincinnati haven't had the same constraints economically as Cleveland and continued their growth trajectory.  Cleveland did not.

 

2)  Cleveland's economy for generations was centered on manufacturing, which began declining locally during the 60s.  

 

3)  Cleveland is JUST NOW beginning to see the fruits of transitioning away from manufacturing and into an Eds and Meds centered economy.  Though manufacturing will always be a cornerstone of Cleveland's economy, the region is not as dependent on it, which is a good thing.  Manufacturing is much more prone to contraction when the national and world economy contracts.

 

4)  Statistics point to the region growing economically and finally getting to the point were we could (if the next recession doesn't wipe away everything... and it won't since the region's restructured economy isn't based primarily on manufacturing) pass our 2002 employment numbers within the next year or so.  That's close to 20 years of trying to play catch-up while other regions haven't had the same issues.  

 

5)  Other regions do not have the same history as Cleveland's.  That will never change.  Cleveland's history is diverse, rich, and colorful and is something we can all be proud of REGARDLESS of which region is now the largest in the state.  Again, we've had to play catch-up due to how the region's economy was structured.  Cleveland is better positioned now more than at any time within a generation for growth now and in the future.

 

Maybe Cleveland will see some growth both in the city and the region as a whole during the next census, though that growth will be minimal due to just replacing the population that left.  Just traveling around town one can see the decline the region has faced.  We have a long way to go, but we'll get there.  

Edited February 4, 20196 yr by Oldmanladyluck

Anecdotal story on Cleveland population: I have a friend who is one of those highly educated but insular Bostonians. While he is far more accomplished than me I'm way more traveled than him. "Why should I leave New England? It has everything I need." Anyway, he did manage to visit me awhile back and we hit all the usual CLE sites. I'll sum up his impression in two sentences. "Cleveland is different, more interesting than I expected." and "Where's all the people." Yeah, I think he nailed it. 

That "where are all the people" sentiment is something I've heard about midwestern cities from Californians and people from the big East Coast cities pretty frequently. I had a friend who's an LA native who attended grad school at Wash U in St. Louis, and when I asked her how she liked the city she said "it's nice, there is some great architecture and the people tend to be friendly, but it feels so empty." I've been told similar things by people I've toured around Cincinnati. Great city, but where is everyone? Anymore, when I come home to Cincinnati, I increasingly feel the same way. It's odd to be driving at night (like 10 PM) and be one of the only cars on the street, even in dense or popular areas. 

I personally believe boomerangs bring great potential as they hope to start a family. I'm currently in college at OU and I know one friend has a sibling in Brooklyn waiting to come back to Cleveland. She now has two kids and they're just waiting on Deloitte to transfer her husband's position. Also, I have some nursing friends from all over the country that specifically chose OU because of their partnership with Cleveland Clinic. Many want to work for CC when graduated and these are people from Connecticut, South Carolina, and Maryland!

On ‎2‎/‎4‎/‎2019 at 5:29 PM, edale said:

That "where are all the people" sentiment is something I've heard about midwestern cities from Californians and people from the big East Coast cities pretty frequently. I had a friend who's an LA native who attended grad school at Wash U in St. Louis, and when I asked her how she liked the city she said "it's nice, there is some great architecture and the people tend to be friendly, but it feels so empty." I've been told similar things by people I've toured around Cincinnati. Great city, but where is everyone? Anymore, when I come home to Cincinnati, I increasingly feel the same way. It's odd to be driving at night (like 10 PM) and be one of the only cars on the street, even in dense or popular areas. 

 

To be fair, only Chicago in the Midwest doesn't pretty much die after a certain time of night.  There are very few cities in the US that are like that- New York and LA being the only real others, with a few more cities having much smaller levels of 24-hour activity.  I've lived in a city of literally 22 million that had nearly 30,000 people for every square mile... for like 800 square miles.  Talk about making everything feel smaller. 

Edited February 6, 20196 yr by jonoh81

Once again, we seem to be an outlier 

Interesting map.  Would be helpful to see the exact net-migration numbers instead of those arbitrary buckets, and an income filter would be interesting too. 

 

Anecdotally, it partially lines up with what I've seen: after college, lots of people spend a few years in the "Big City" (NYC, Chicago, LA, DC, Boston, etc.) before moving elsewhere to settle.   Now I've also seen a lot of those people boomerang to Cleveland, but perhaps it's not enough to make up for outflow to sun belt and tech hubs. 

1 hour ago, ML11 said:

Interesting map.  Would be helpful to see the exact net-migration numbers instead of those arbitrary buckets, and an income filter would be interesting too. 

 

Anecdotally, it partially lines up with what I've seen: after college, lots of people spend a few years in the "Big City" (NYC, Chicago, LA, DC, Boston, etc.) before moving elsewhere to settle.   Now I've also seen a lot of those people boomerang to Cleveland, but perhaps it's not enough to make up for outflow to sun belt and tech hubs. 

 

The sources article dives a bit more in to the numbers but nested within the article are download links to the full tables.

 

Article Link

https://www.brookings.edu/research/how-migration-of-millennials-and-seniors-has-shifted-since-the-great-recession/

 

A quick glance and it breaks down as follows:

Focusing on the Midwest, the amount of Millennials gained or lost from 2012 - 2017 

 

Columbus +4,682 (Largest Gain)

Minneapolis +4,168

Kansas City +2,621

Indianpolis +2,569

Detroit +1,521

Cincinnati +1,143

Louisville -17

St Louis -92

Cleveland -1,021

Milwaukee -2,213

Chicago -13,757 (Largest Drop)

 

The tables also go into the percentage gained or lost that are college grads as well. It's also interesting that the article highlights that Ohio

overall has a net loss of -3,318 millennials over that time period. 

 

 

7 minutes ago, DevolsDance said:

 

The sources article dives a bit more in to the numbers but nested within the article are download links to the full tables.

 

Article Link

https://www.brookings.edu/research/how-migration-of-millennials-and-seniors-has-shifted-since-the-great-recession/

 

A quick glance and it breaks down as follows:

Focusing on the Midwest, the amount of Millennials gained or lost from 2012 - 2017 

 

Columbus +4,682 (Largest Gain)

Minneapolis +4,168

Kansas City +2,621

Indianpolis +2,569

Detroit +1,521

Cincinnati +1,143

Louisville -17

St Louis -92

Cleveland -1,021

Milwaukee -2,213

Chicago -13,757 (Largest Drop)

 

The tables also go into the percentage gained or lost that are college grads as well. It's also interesting that the article highlights that Ohio

overall has a net loss of -3,318 millennials over that time period. 

 

 

Note that those are annual figures, not total.

 

Strange to see Chicago losing 13,757 per year. The homers over on Skyscraperpage will assure you that Chicago is losing population overall, but it's because baby boomers are leaving and being replaced by fewer millennials and/or college educated young people. And that that is actually good for them.

 

Their tax and pension problems are really starting to come to a head, and I feel the three Cs can capitalize.

 

Looks like Cleveland is starting to turn things around, with Cinci doing well and Columbus way ahead of its peers here. But man, Akron-Canton, Youngstown, Dayton, and Toledo must really be losing their young people for Ohio to be losing that many per year when the three Cs combine to gain 4,804 per year. That means the other big cities and rural Ohio are combining to lose 8,122 millennials every year outside of Ohio. Ouch!

7 minutes ago, aderwent said:

Note that those are annual figures, not total.

 

Strange to see Chicago losing 13,757 per year. The homers over on Skyscraperpage will assure you that Chicago is losing population overall, but it's because baby boomers are leaving and being replaced by fewer millennials and/or college educated young people. And that that is actually good for them.

 

Their tax and pension problems are really starting to come to a head, and I feel the three Cs can capitalize.

 

Looks like Cleveland is starting to turn things around, with Cinci doing well and Columbus way ahead of its peers here. But man, Akron-Canton, Youngstown, Dayton, and Toledo must really be losing their young people for Ohio to be losing that many per year when the three Cs combine to gain 4,804 per year. That means the other big cities and rural Ohio are combining to lose 8,122 millennials every year outside of Ohio. Ouch!

 

I haven't looked into Chicago's numbers too deeply, but I do know that all racial groups are growing in the city except non-Hispanic blacks, who are leaving at a greater rate than all others moving into the city combined.  Not sure about age groups. 

 

As for Ohio losing younger people,  it's part of the general trend of rural America dying, I think.  The cities in the state doing relatively well are seeing growth, but the rest isn't.  Columbus and Cincinnati can only capture so many on their own.

11 minutes ago, aderwent said:

Note that those are annual figures, not total.

 

Strange to see Chicago losing 13,757 per year. The homers over on Skyscraperpage will assure you that Chicago is losing population overall, but it's because baby boomers are leaving and being replaced by fewer millennials and/or college educated young people. And that that is actually good for them.

 

Their tax and pension problems are really starting to come to a head, and I feel the three Cs can capitalize.

 

Looks like Cleveland is starting to turn things around, with Cinci doing well and Columbus way ahead of its peers here. But man, Akron-Canton, Youngstown, Dayton, and Toledo must really be losing their young people for Ohio to be losing that many per year when the three Cs combine to gain 4,804 per year. That means the other big cities and rural Ohio are combining to lose 8,122 millennials every year outside of Ohio. Ouch!

 

Nah, the dudes over on SSP will assure you the Chicago is losing population overall, but it's just poor black people, so no cause for alarm. They're seriously messed up over there.

 

Without seeing year over year data, it's hard for me to accept that Cleveland is starting to turn things around in regard to millennial retention when they lost over 1,000 in a year. Based on these numbers, one could make the case that Louisville and St. Louis are starting to turn things around, but a loss of 1,000 young people is still pretty bad. 

17 minutes ago, edale said:

 

Nah, the dudes over on SSP will assure you the Chicago is losing population overall, but it's just poor black people, so no cause for alarm. They're seriously messed up over there.

 

Without seeing year over year data, it's hard for me to accept that Cleveland is starting to turn things around in regard to millennial retention when they lost over 1,000 in a year. Based on these numbers, one could make the case that Louisville and St. Louis are starting to turn things around, but a loss of 1,000 young people is still pretty bad. 

 

Well, to be fair, they're right in that the city did only lose that one racial demographic, but it's definitely a problem. 

41 minutes ago, edale said:

 

Nah, the dudes over on SSP will assure you the Chicago is losing population overall, but it's just poor black people, so no cause for alarm. They're seriously messed up over there.

 

Without seeing year over year data, it's hard for me to accept that Cleveland is starting to turn things around in regard to millennial retention when they lost over 1,000 in a year. Based on these numbers, one could make the case that Louisville and St. Louis are starting to turn things around, but a loss of 1,000 young people is still pretty bad. 

 

That's 1,000 over 5 years.

5 minutes ago, X said:

 

That's 1,000 over 5 years.

It's the annual average over 5 years. 

34 minutes ago, jonoh81 said:

 

Well, to be fair, they're right in that the city did only lose that one racial demographic, but it's definitely a problem. 

I can see that for the city of Chicago, but these are metro numbers.

Plus, this data set ends with 2017. I didn't start noticing a rise in the number of out-of-state license plates in Cleveland (west side and Lakewood) until about mid-2017. Since then, it's become a joke in my family -- e.g. "oh look, another New York car..."

I have to wonder how much 2016 changed perceptions of Cleveland to the younger population. Since that study Cleveland's economy began to turn a corner and hasn't slowed down. I would like to see this study again, maybe for 2017-2022.

Edited February 12, 20196 yr by Oldmanladyluck