16 minutes ago, mrnyc said:

i knew austin was a-boomin, but i had no idea it had passed peak cleveland population -- yeow!:

 

austin city: 964,254 (July 1, 2018 estimate) - source: US Census Bureau

peak cleveland:   914,808  1950

 

Ya, at 297 square miles of land mass compared to Cleveland's 77. But to be fair, adding over 120,000 to a region that quickly is pretty substantial no matter how it is added.

I don't even think to compare city population differences when it comes to such varied political borders. That's what metros are for. City population is arbitrary in a way.

 

But as noted, no matter how you slice it, Austin is boomin'.

Edited July 31, 20195 yr by ohpenn

Here's a fun stat on Austin.  Its MSA has almost the same exact population as Cleveland's MSA...with about 2.5 times the land area.

Edited August 1, 20195 yr by jam40jeff

oh right yeah how could i forget everything in texas is big, including the area of the cities? lol.

 

btw i saw a 2019 estimate that puts austin over 1m for 2019: 1,001,104.

 

 

On 6/17/2019 at 12:08 PM, X said:

Shall we get back to Cleveland Population Trends?

^Sorry didn't see that. 

Is the East side just hemorrhaging people? Idk how Cleveland is losing population when people (many of whom from elsewhere) have moved to Downtown, Ohio City, D-S, and Tremont in the last 3-4 years.  

6 minutes ago, YABO713 said:

Is the East side just hemorrhaging people? Idk how Cleveland is losing population when people (many of whom from elsewhere) have moved to Downtown, Ohio City, D-S, and Tremont in the last 3-4 years.  

 

Downtown is adding population because it had none to begin with. The near west was replacing population, oftentimes with smaller household sizes, which resulted in a decrease in population. With new construction happening that may be changing. Overall these areas represent a very small portion of the city. Most of the east side continues to lose population. Also not talked about too often but the west side is also losing population in the less desirable neighborhoods. Unfortunately we will probably see decline pick up in several of these neighborhoods as the population continues to age, houses sit vacant, decay, attract crime, etc. 

8 minutes ago, YABO713 said:

Is the East side just hemorrhaging people? Idk how Cleveland is losing population when people (many of whom from elsewhere) have moved to Downtown, Ohio City, D-S, and Tremont in the last 3-4 years.  

 

Short answer: Yes.

 

Fairfax, Glenville (even now), Collinwood, Euclid-Green, Hough, Union-Miles, Mt. Pleasant, Buckeye, even Lee-Harvard (which eould be the most stable of the bunch) have all seen massive disinvestment over the past 10 years. Theres still approximately 3000 vacant homes left in the city which need to be demoed- the huge majority of which are on the east-side. I feel as though the losses are being offset at this point by the gains on the west-side and the improving regional economy, so population loss should be slowing significantly. But the 60 year slide of the east-side is definitely continuing.

10 minutes ago, Oldmanladyluck said:

 

Short answer: Yes.

 

Fairfax, Glenville (even now), Collinwood, Euclid-Green, Hough, Union-Miles, Mt. Pleasant, Buckeye, even Lee-Harvard (which eould be the most stable of the bunch) have all seen massive disinvestment over the past 10 years. Theres still approximately 3000 vacant homes left in the city which need to be demoed- the huge majority of which are on the east-side. I feel as though the losses are being offset at this point by the gains on the west-side and the improving regional economy, so population loss should be slowing significantly. But the 60 year slide of the east-side is definitely continuing.

This is backed up by the ACS which shows the city losing roughly 4k in African American population and gaining smaller numbers of every other demographic. 

1 hour ago, YABO713 said:

Is the East side just hemorrhaging people? Idk how Cleveland is losing population when people (many of whom from elsewhere) have moved to Downtown, Ohio City, D-S, and Tremont in the last 3-4 years.  

 

When a low-income family of five moves from the east side of Cleveland to Maple Heights or Cleveland Heights and is replaced by a single, young professional moving from Rochester, NY or Champaign, IL into Ohio City, that's a significant net loss population-wise.

^Anecdotally of course, but..

 

My street in old Brooklyn runs basically between Pearl and Fulton. When I bought my house in 2009, there were roughly 20 houses in that 6 block stretch that were foreclosed/abandoned/whatever. Slowly but steadlily these houses have been reclaimed by the landbank and sold, or the banks unloaded them. There has been one house torn down, and that was only because my neighbor complained to the councilman weekly about the house. Every other house and double has been rehabbed and is fully occupied. By my estimates my street alone has 50 more people than it did in 2009.

 

From nifht time walks, much of the neighborhood seems to have gone the same way. I can't believe there hasnt been a few thousand person bump in neighborhood population.

6 hours ago, originaljbw said:

^Anecdotally of course, but..

 

My street in old Brooklyn runs basically between Pearl and Fulton. When I bought my house in 2009, there were roughly 20 houses in that 6 block stretch that were foreclosed/abandoned/whatever. Slowly but steadlily these houses have been reclaimed by the landbank and sold, or the banks unloaded them. There has been one house torn down, and that was only because my neighbor complained to the councilman weekly about the house. Every other house and double has been rehabbed and is fully occupied. By my estimates my street alone has 50 more people than it did in 2009.

 

From nifht time walks, much of the neighborhood seems to have gone the same way. I can't believe there hasnt been a few thousand person bump in neighborhood population.

Let me put it this way. There are probably less people from the sheer fact that there aren't three child households anymore, but I'll be my life that Old Brooklyn has a higher median income than it did. The big game changer to make neighborhoods have more people again is replacing a couple houses or old industrial plants with these 50 plus unit apartment buildings like we are seeing in Ohio City/Hingetown. That is the kind of construction you need to increase population just because household size isn't what it used to be. 

No I get that, that's why im talking the last 10 years, not 50.

It's still happening in these neighborhoods, not just 50 years ago.

1 minute ago, Mendo said:

It's still happening in these neighborhoods, not just 50 years ago.

Without large numbers of new housing units, there will not be a population increase.  I see this where I live in lakewood.  The newer residents around me seem to be slightly more affluent than they were when I first moved here 15 years ago. However, it's young couples moving in and replacing families that moved to Avon and other places further west. 

If you are attracting new low-skill (and often low-wage) jobs, how are those employees supposed to pay the high price of newly constructed units...

3 hours ago, freefourur said:

Without large numbers of new housing units, there will not be a population increase.  I see this where I live in lakewood.  The newer residents around me seem to be slightly more affluent than they were when I first moved here 15 years ago. However, it's young couples moving in and replacing families that moved to Avon and other places further west. 

 

Exactly right. The number of units built over the last 10 years is far lower than the loss from smaller households. Though I wouldn't be surprised if it bottomed out in handful of neighborhoods in recent years.

On 8/4/2019 at 9:56 PM, Mildtraumatic said:

^Sorry didn't see that. 

 

 

without dwelling on it too much, i think at last a liitle bit of notice to cities that are passing cleveland's peak population is on topic and interesting.

 

austin being noted --- as of 2019 these other cities are on deck to pass it next:

 

11AustinTexas1,001,104790,3901.80%1,205/km²30.30/-97.75831

12JacksonvilleFlorida920,984821,7841.48%476/km²30.34/-81.661,936

13Fort WorthTexas913,939741,2062.23%1,023/km²32.78/-97.35893

14San FranciscoCalifornia897,536805,2351.00%7,388/km²37.73/-123.03121

15ColumbusOhio890,228787,0331.14%1,572/km²39.98/-82.98566

16CharlotteNorth Carolina889,019731,4241.79%1,121/km²35.21/-80.83793

17IndianapolisIndiana863,771820,4450.33%923/km²39.78/-86.15936

 

of course all of them except sf are much larger area-wise, so its a cheat, but still, it is what it is.

 

i wonder if there is a projection for a date when columbus population will pass peak cleveland or get to 1M?

 

3 hours ago, mrnyc said:

 

 

without dwelling on it too much, i think at last a liitle bit of notice to cities that are passing cleveland's peak population is on topic and interesting.

 

austin being noted --- as of 2019 these other cities are on deck to pass it next:

 

11AustinTexas1,001,104790,3901.80%1,205/km²30.30/-97.75831

12JacksonvilleFlorida920,984821,7841.48%476/km²30.34/-81.661,936

13Fort WorthTexas913,939741,2062.23%1,023/km²32.78/-97.35893

14San FranciscoCalifornia897,536805,2351.00%7,388/km²37.73/-123.03121

15ColumbusOhio890,228787,0331.14%1,572/km²39.98/-82.98566

16CharlotteNorth Carolina889,019731,4241.79%1,121/km²35.21/-80.83793

17IndianapolisIndiana863,771820,4450.33%923/km²39.78/-86.15936

 

of course all of them except sf are much larger area-wise, so its a cheat, but still, it is what it is.

 

i wonder if there is a projection for a date when columbus population will pass peak cleveland or get to 1M?

 

 

These numbers are so smushed together without spaces or explanation of what each figure is. Can you explain or at least put some spaces in?

On 8/7/2019 at 12:55 PM, edale said:

 

These numbers are so smushed together without spaces or explanation of what each figure is. Can you explain or at least put some spaces in?

It appears to go 2018 Population : 2010 Population : Growth %/year : Density in Square Kilometers : Coordinates

 

Not sure why they chose those to put those figures together; especially in the context of passing peak Cleveland population.

5 hours ago, aderwent said:

It appears to go 2018 Population : 2010 Population : Growth %/year : Density in Square Kilometers : Coordinates

 

Not sure why they chose those to put those figures together; especially in the context of passing peak Cleveland population.

 

Yeah, I don't get the significance of the comparison either, considering Columbus takes up 3 times the land area Cleveland ever did.  If Cleveland merged with Cuyahoga County, it would have 1.3 million residents.  So what?

If you still believe the BLS anymore, Greater Cleveland's workforce in July surpassed 1,070,053. In other words, it reached its highest level since August 2009.  https://www.bls.gov/eag/eag.oh_cleveland_msa.htm

 

What would be interesting to know:  How many Baby Boomers have retired in the past 10 years? How many of them have maintained a primary residence in Greater Cleveland since retiring?

 

The answers could indicate how much the region's population has grown.

I am a boomer who retired 2 years ago from the Clinic. Still live in RR with no plans to move.

A feel good story on Puerto Rican nurses getting a second chance in Cleveland:

 

Nurses displaced by Hurricane Maria get chance to work in Cleveland

Posted: 10:53 PM, Aug 16, 2019

 

CLEVELAND — It's been two years since hurricane Maria devastated Puerto Rico forcing tens of thousands to flee their homes. Since then, Northeast Ohio has been a popular destination. Among those seeking refuge here, many are professionals, including nurses.

 

An emotional ceremony was held Friday night as a handful of nurses who survived the storm got a second chance to take care of others in a community they now call home.

 

The first round of 17 graduates are already in high demand.

 

"Every hospital in Ohio has told me we have a need for Hispanic nurses because there's not enough of them," Vargas said.

 

https://www.news5cleveland.com/news/local-news/cleveland-metro/nurses-displaced-by-hurricane-maria-get-chance-to-work-in-cleveland

"SEPT. 26, 2019 — The U.S. Census Bureau today released its most detailed look at America’s people, places and economy. New state and local statistics on income, poverty and health insurance are available in briefs, detailed tables, data profiles and more. The American Community Survey (ACS) also produces statistics for more than 40 other topics."

 

I haven't had time to explore the data yet, except for one set. But it is all here:  https://www.census.gov/programs-surveys/acs/guidance/subjects.html

 

The one set I did look at was on citizenship to see the number of non citizens and naturalized foreign born to get a sense of ethnic diversity of Cleveland.  Our numbers are really low, unfortunately--only 5.7% of the city at 22,000 people.  I then also added PR (US citizens) which contribute to the diversity and helped our numbers a bit.

 

 

 

I am amazed at the diversity in my son's school here in Lakewood. When we first registered my Ukrainian son for preschool, he spoke no English. I asked if the school could help with that, and they responded "We have children speaking 47 different languages in the Lakewood schools. I'm sure we can find someone who speaks Russian." Then, one of my wife's friends from Ukraine settled in Lakewood. Her first apartment building here we called it the United Nations. I think one of the 12 apartments had an American native living in it. Everyone else was from somewhere else. So while Cleveland and Cuyahoga County are below the national average in ethnic diversity, it seems Lakewood might be above it.

https://www.cleveland.com/metro/2019/11/cleveland-rises-in-national-rankings-immigrants-ability-to-join-community.html

The one thing I noticed driving around Cleveland the last couple months is that it seems like there are quite a few homes for sale (in the nicer neighborhoods)  compared to what I have seen in Columbus and Cincinnati. I was in Avon Lake and Bay Village recently and Chagrin a few weeks back and considering it was the slow time, there was quite a bit of inventory on the market which I found a bit odd for this time of year. I have not seen that as much down in Cincinnati or in some of the Columbus neighborhoods, at least to the extent it stood out in Cleveland.

I imagine alot of it is boomers downsizing and there not being a  huge market to fill those big, more expensive houses. The bigger houses in Shaker are sitting longer too I've noticed. Compare that to "middle neighborhoods" like South Euclid where houses are more affordable. Houses which have been updated are selling in under a week, and even the ones that haven't been are being scooped up by rehabbers quick. All I hear about is the lack of inventory and people asking leads on finding houses. The Cleveland housing market as a whole is very robust right now, its just the upper end that is sluggish.

13 minutes ago, PoshSteve said:

I imagine alot of it is boomers downsizing and there not being a  huge market to fill those big, more expensive houses. The bigger houses in Shaker are sitting longer too I've noticed. Compare that to "middle neighborhoods" like South Euclid where houses are more affordable. Houses which have been updated are selling in under a week, and even the ones that haven't been are being scooped up by rehabbers quick. All I hear about is the lack of inventory and people asking leads on finding houses. The Cleveland housing market as a whole is very robust right now, its just the upper end that is sluggish.

Homes in Lakewood, Fairview, West Park, and Rocky River have been selling quickly. The moderately priced homes in Shaker and Cleveland Hts. have also been selling fast too.

47 minutes ago, freefourur said:

Homes in Lakewood, Fairview, West Park, and Rocky River have been selling quickly. The moderately priced homes in Shaker and Cleveland Hts. have also been selling fast too.

That’s likely a lot of young families putting down roots with some young professionals mixed in.

2 hours ago, freefourur said:

Homes in Lakewood, Fairview, West Park, and Rocky River have been selling quickly. The moderately priced homes in Shaker and Cleveland Hts. have also been selling fast too.

 

The market has slowed down to more traditional market conditions, according to my realtor who lists my Lakewood condo flips. Showings of my condos have slowed to a trickle in the last couple of months. My realtor is hopeful the market will pick back up after the holidays.

^ granted this is the off season for real estate too. spring and summer are ideal

Finally, Cleveland is on the right track in terms of population

 

https://www.cleveland.com/letters/2019/12/finally-cleveland-is-on-the-right-track-in-terms-of-population.html

1 hour ago, KJP said:

Finally, Cleveland is on the right track in terms of population

 

https://www.cleveland.com/letters/2019/12/finally-cleveland-is-on-the-right-track-in-terms-of-population.html

 

Uh oh...relatedly:

 

https://www.cleveland.com/business/2019/12/report-cleveland-had-highest-rent-growth-among-top-100-cities-in-2019.html

On 12/5/2019 at 7:12 AM, KJP said:

Finally, Cleveland is on the right track in terms of population

 

https://www.cleveland.com/letters/2019/12/finally-cleveland-is-on-the-right-track-in-terms-of-population.html

 

 

Only losing 1,700 people over one year doesn't sound like the right track to me.  That's still a pretty significant decline- I thought we would be doing better than this by now.

2 minutes ago, X said:

 

 

Only losing 1,700 people over one year doesn't sound like the right track to me.  That's still a pretty significant decline- I thought we would be doing better than this by now.

I agree, but its better than the 10,000 or so we experienced in the past.  It's a false positive.  ?

34 minutes ago, MyTwoSense said:

I agree, but its better than the 10,000 or so we experienced in the past.  It's a false positive.  ?

I almost guarantee you the income difference of those moving in opposed to the greater number moving out is significant. 

9 hours ago, KFM44107 said:

I almost guarantee you the income difference of those moving in opposed to the greater number moving out is significant. 

 

Higher income does not equate to being a better or good citizen.  That is classist and elitist.  And I'M WRITING this!

 

 

6 hours ago, MyTwoSense said:

 

Higher income does not equate to being a better or good citizen.  That is classist and elitist.  And I'M WRITING this!

 

 

I never said it did. But it does equate to higher tax revenue. 

4 hours ago, KFM44107 said:

I never said it did. But it potentially equate to higher tax revenue. 

 

4 minutes ago, Terdolph said:

It equates to more income taxes that could potentially be spent on benefits for the less fortunate.

 

Who could be against that?

 

Im all for that, but what I dont like or agree with is that each person that moves is a better citizen, outside of financial status, then someone else.

 

Now having said that, with tax loopholes, you never know what a person is paying for their home or their income.  

Just now, Terdolph said:

We assume that they are working in a city that has an income tax.

 

So, inherently if the person moving in has a higher income than the person moving out how can you say that might not be a benefit?

They may not be a good citizen.

 

Just because a person make more money that does not translate into a person who involved in the community.

meh, cle doesn't need good persons, poor persons, wealthy persons, etc..

 

it just needs persons. 

 

and it looks likes its getting them at last and people have been staying.

 

that is, if around 1700 loss is really true.

 

remember 30k losses per year used to happen.

 

so by any measure the bottom has been reached and the reversal is in effect.

 

that is very good news.

48 minutes ago, Terdolph said:

I'm out. 

 

You just don't want to get it.

 

It is not elitist. 

 

Poor people need rich people or the whole thing doesn't work.

 

 

 

So you need me?

^ for sure cle could use a few gay, former crackhead hooker bazillionaire tv personalities.

 

geraldo is kind of a poor man's version vs king-maker oprah, but he's a pretty good get.

18 minutes ago, mrnyc said:

^ for sure cle could use a few gay, former crackhead hooker bazillionaire tv personalities.

 

geraldo is kind of a poor man's version vs king-maker oprah, but he's a pretty good get.

True but Geraldo doesn't live in Cleveland proper.

 

1 minute ago, MyTwoSense said:

True but Geraldo doesn't live in Cleveland proper.

 

 

True, but he does spend a lot of time and $$$ in Cleveland proper.

2 minutes ago, Clefan98 said:

 

True, but he does spend a lot of time and $$$ in Cleveland proper.

Please give examples or a source.  Not trying to be an ass, but that is easy to write without any context.

Just now, MyTwoSense said:

Please give examples or a source.  Not trying to be an ass, but that is easy to write without any context.

 

One example out of many:

https://fox8.com/2019/01/25/radio-host-geraldo-rivera-buying-drinks-for-furloughed-workers-at-cleveland-bar/