Millennials flock to Cleveland citing job market, affordable housing

Maggie Thomas | Special to the CJN Aug 10, 2016  (0)  ... Their studies indicate that over the next 10 years, an estimated 49,000 manufacturing jobs will be created in Cleveland, setting up the manufacturing industry for notable growth.

MORE:

http://www.clevelandjewishnews.com/news/local_news/millennials-flock-to-cleveland-citing-job-market-affordable-housing/article_5e00a276-5f28-11e6-a2a2-5b9e5de10ea7.html

 

Nice to see her recognize Constant Aviation. That company and Kenn Ricci's other aviation interests (Sentient, Directional, Nextant, Flight Options, etc.) add up to another almost secret billion-dollar-sales Cleveland group of companies run from offices at Cuyahoga County Airport.

 

***THIS.  See all my posts on the BKL thread. .  Why the City of Cleveland doesn't offer land deals to aviation businesses at Burke is beyond me....

Millennials flock to Cleveland citing job market, affordable housing

Maggie Thomas | Special to the CJN Aug 10, 2016  (0)  ... Their studies indicate that over the next 10 years, an estimated 49,000 manufacturing jobs will be created in Cleveland, setting up the manufacturing industry for notable growth.

MORE:

http://www.clevelandjewishnews.com/news/local_news/millennials-flock-to-cleveland-citing-job-market-affordable-housing/article_5e00a276-5f28-11e6-a2a2-5b9e5de10ea7.html

 

Nice to see her recognize Constant Aviation. That company and Kenn Ricci's other aviation interests (Sentient, Directional, Nextant, Flight Options, etc.) add up to another almost secret billion-dollar-sales Cleveland group of companies run from offices at Cuyahoga County Airport.

 

***THIS.  See all my posts on the BKL thread. .  Why the City of Cleveland doesn't offer land deals to aviation businesses at Burke is beyond me....

 

Because no one thought of it, most likely.  Or they steered it to Hopkins.

Historical map of red-lining in Cleveland. The most troubled parts of the city today. #owningrace ht @BenRossTransit https://t.co/9p3XoBstop https://t.co/SljNKz8t1j

Given the regular announcements of small to medium sized housing projects planned and building around town, is it fair to say that Cleveland is currently building at a better-than-replacement rate? Will the number of available units increase as these projects are completed?

 

Or am I just too eager to think that the population losses are about over?

Aren't 2015 estimates coming out in a few weeks?

In the first half of this decade Cleveland lost an average of around 1,750 people/year. There's a lot of construction happening, but not enough to make up for that yet. But it'll definitely be slowing to a crawl and hopefully will eventually turn back towards population gains soon.

But it'll definitely be slowing to a crawl and hopefully will eventually turn back towards population gains soon.

 

I'm trying to pretend we're already at that tipping point. I know there is still a demolition backlog, but looking at new construction, it seems we are building at least as fast as older properties are being added to the demo list.

Does new construction really indicate population growth?

I don't know if there's more demolitions than new housing permits citywide. But the amount of vacant housing in Cleveland and some of its inner-ring suburbs is appalling.

7000+ vacant homes need demo'd in cle, 1000 in east cle & 1000 in the suburbs according to this:

 

http://www.policymattersohio.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/Blight-final1.pdf

Are these properties really in that much shape that they can't be rehabbed? A good amount of these properties are probably unique homes that give an identity. I live on the east side and see my fair share of abandoned homes. On the outside a good amount look fine. The inside though could tell a different story.

I remember when I was at Sun Newspapers and I reported in 2005 or 06 on a volunteer mass-rehab project on the city's west-side for qualifying disadvantaged homeowners. There were probably 10-15 homes that were part of the program. For most homes, this involved new exterior paint. Others required interior plaster work, minor foundation improvements, landscaping etc. I was able to get inside the homes and interview some of the residents. It wasn't pretty....

 

The volunteer repairmen admitted that some of those stone foundations were crumbling, leaking and needed to be sealed or even sections replaced. The wood siding on many homes hadn't been taken care of so the paint wouldn't buy the homeowner much time (one of the repairmen joked that the new paint should hold up the house for at least a few more years). From within the basements, you could see some of the homes had termites or the wood floors were rotting from the wet basements below.

 

And then there's the issue that's a problem with many old homes in Cleveland -- they're tiny! Most of their rooms are very small. They have no open floor space. People didn't have much leisure time 100+ years ago. The man worked long hours at the factory while the wife was in the kitchen cooking, doing the laundry, making/repairing clothing, or she was out shopping for food or clothing materials or in a quilting group with her friends. When the man came home from work, he showered in the basement and washed off the soot and grime from the factory, ate dinner and if he wasn't too tired, he read the newspaper or, in later years, listened to the radio. On the weekend evenings they went to the Polish Workingman's Club or the Italian-American Club. The kids played in the park, the yard, front porch, or in their rooms. There was no big refrigerator or big screen TV or sofa (maybe they had a love seat). Beds were assembled in the home.

 

Take a tour of the Christmas Story House sometime, especially the upstairs--the downstairs has had a couple of walls knocked out so crowds can maneuver around (But that also shows how old homes' interiors can be modernized to offer open-floor concepts; tour: http://tinyurl.com/hn45tqj). This is a typical factory worker's home, and the style is repeated throughout Cleveland. The ubiquitous Cleveland Double that came later in the 1900-30 period has more open floor space but less square footage per housing unit.

 

For example... Check out the new home at 4509 Franklin Blvd, in Ohio City: http://tinyurl.com/j5atnkh This home was part of the Ohio City Home Tour when it was built 15 years ago. It looks like an old home from the outside. It's not very large, but the amount of open floor space inside is amazing. It suits modern interior needs. Imagine if older homes could/would be opened up like this. Would it be more cost-effective to demolish them and replace them? BTW, this house was built for less than $160,000 in 2000. No way you could do that in Ohio City today, but it might be possible in some neighborhoods that haven't re-emerged....

 

IMG_0096 by Ken Prendergast, on Flickr

 

IMG_0097 by Ken Prendergast, on Flickr

Unfortunately, a lot of vacant homes that look intact from the outside have had their mechanicals stripped, making them much more expansive to rehab. And given the meager rents most houses and units in the City of Cleveland can command, every bit of additional expense makes a rehab materially less feasible. Any property *can* be rehabbed with enough money, but it's relatively few for which it makes financial sense or for which there's enough subsidy.

 

Also, the population drain in Cleveland isn't really from demolition per se, but vacancy and abandonment which are a bit harder to spot with the naked eye. Would be interesting to see some high quality vacancy data (there's a data set from the USPS, for example) to see how the number of occupied units has been trending.

And then there's the issue that's a problem with many old homes in Cleveland -- they're tiny!

 

I live in a 110 year old house in the Wash DC area that's very much like a Lakewood house - 2 stories plus basement and attic, wooden with a big front porch. We've added on to it; but the old part of the house has small bedrooms and even smaller closets. The other problem is it's a maintenance nightmare. "The only thing that works in an old house is the owner." Truer words ... etc.

 

 

Unfortunately, a lot of vacant homes that look intact from the outside have had their mechanicals stripped, making them much more expansive to rehab. And given the meager rents most houses and units in the City of Cleveland can command, every bit of additional expense makes a rehab materially less feasible. Any property *can* be rehabbed with enough money, but it's relatively few for which it makes financial sense or for which there's enough subsidy.

 

Also, the population drain in Cleveland isn't really from demolition per se, but vacancy and abandonment which are a bit harder to spot with the naked eye. Would be interesting to see some high quality vacancy data (there's a data set from the USPS, for example) to see how the number of occupied units has been trending.

Well I spoke of the rehabs simply because according to these population stories on Cleveland.com. Cleveland's population can grow again if it can meet housing demand. Depending on the condition of the home I assumed that rehabbing and preserving these unique structures could allow the housing stock to keep up with demand and still keep the unique characteristics of the neighborhood..........potentially.

Unfortunately, a lot of vacant homes that look intact from the outside have had their mechanicals stripped, making them much more expansive to rehab. And given the meager rents most houses and units in the City of Cleveland can command, every bit of additional expense makes a rehab materially less feasible. Any property *can* be rehabbed with enough money, but it's relatively few for which it makes financial sense or for which there's enough subsidy.

 

Also, the population drain in Cleveland isn't really from demolition per se, but vacancy and abandonment which are a bit harder to spot with the naked eye. Would be interesting to see some high quality vacancy data (there's a data set from the USPS, for example) to see how the number of occupied units has been trending.

Well I spoke of the rehabs simply because according to these population stories on Cleveland.com. Cleveland's population can grow again if it can meet housing demand. Depending on the condition of the home I assumed that rehabbing and preserving these unique structures could allow the housing stock to keep up with demand and still keep the unique characteristics of the neighborhood..........potentially.

 

The problem, which is what I think KJP was alluding to, is that a lot of this housing stock is out of date. So regardless of whether it can be rehabbed or not, some of these homes need to be demolished anyway because there's no demand for them. And if the rehab is abnormally expensive (for example because the house has been exposed to the elements or it's been stripped) on top of that, it's better to just tear it down

if the housing has to go maybe the upside is there is a lot of room for the city to patch together land for neighborhood square parks and community gardens and the like and set up the forms that will help entice developers to rebuild around them.

Adding greenspace is not the answer.  That leads to more maintenance cost and less tax base, while making neighborhoods less walkable.  If we need to rebuild, what we build needs to be at least as dense as before.

Unless you have kids or want to make a neighborhood more family-friendly, in which case more parks and playgrounds will attract more residents and thus more taxbase. Even here in Lakewood, I'm surprised at how few really good playgrounds are within a five minute walk of where I live. My wife says there were more playgrounds in her city of Cherkassy, Ukraine, including several large indoor playgrounds, than exist in Cleveland/Lakewood. But American cities and developers define urban success by revenues generated, not by quality of life metrics.

Families with children are a huge drain on taxbase.  Look at the parks and playgrounds you're saying they need.  Costs $$$.  And schools, pfft- $$$$$.  Not saying amenities aren't nice, not saying families and children have no place in a city, but they are the most expensive demo to attract.

Families with children are a huge drain on taxbase.  Look at the parks and playgrounds you're saying they need.  Costs $$$.  And schools, pfft- $$$$$.  Not saying amenities aren't nice, not saying families and children have no place in a city, but they are the most expensive demo to attract.

 

That's may be true, but at some point you'll have to start attaching them. All the millenials in those new downtown apartments currently have few good options when it comes to safe stable neighborhoods in the city proper, and near zero options when it comes to good schools.

 

I think having the city put together parcels of vacant property is a great idea. That way developers could save on cost while redeveloping the city into the neighborhoods that peopleven want to live in.

 

These blocks with a few houses on them have got to go as maintaining those barely used streets, utilities etc with no return has got to be more expensive than building the public amenities that will then attract tax paying residents.

Families with children are a huge drain on taxbase.  Look at the parks and playgrounds you're saying they need.  Costs $$$.  And schools, pfft- $$$$$.  Not saying amenities aren't nice, not saying families and children have no place in a city, but they are the most expensive demo to attract.

 

Just saying that now that I have a kid, I'm now spending very little of my free time in the city. For just one example, google "indoor playgrounds, Cleveland, OH" sometime and you'll see what I mean. Cleveland is a desert for that kind of stuff, and that's just one amenity. I'm no longer the single guy looking for a hard drink, a great meal and some epic talent/scenery. Addressing that will help Cleveland retain some of its young adult population.

Lakewood does well attracting and retaining families with kids, without having to replace any of its dense neighborhoods with greenspace.  I can think of 3 playgrounds/rec centers withing walking distance of my place, 2 in Lakewood and 1 in Cleveland.  So it's not like we don't have those things already. While we can always do better, I don't think lack of greenspace is keeping many folks away.  Maybe a few, but are those the new residents we're going after, the ones who think it's too urban here?  Better off being the best city we can be and attracting residents who prefer that lifestyle, for themselves and their kids.  Cleveland and its inner ring will never be able to compete with the exurbs on exurban benefits.  But remaining distinctly urban allows us to offer something they don't.

^But why is Greenspace looked at as unurban? I don't think any one is talking about creating huge Luke Easter Park sized Greenspaces, just relatively small community spaces spread throughout the neighborhoods. Maybe a ball park and a playground or a field. These types of spaces can be engrained in the urban fabric.

 

The biggest thing keeping families away is the crime and schools. Poor city services don't help either. Maybe the tax increase will help with that.

Families with children are a huge drain on taxbase.  Look at the parks and playgrounds you're saying they need.  Costs $$$.  And schools, pfft- $$$$$.  Not saying amenities aren't nice, not saying families and children have no place in a city, but they are the most expensive demo to attract.

 

Just saying that now that I have a kid, I'm now spending very little of my free time in the city. For just one example, google "indoor playgrounds, Cleveland, OH" sometime and you'll see what I mean. Cleveland is a desert for that kind of stuff, and that's just one amenity. I'm no longer the single guy looking for a hard drink, a great meal and some epic talent/scenery. Addressing that will help Cleveland retain some of its young adult population.

 

You're absolutely right. We will never get the population growth and retention that we want if we don't make a concerted effort to be more family friendly. Don't get me wrong: I love downtown. I love Ohio City. I love those places. But if we don't have places to retain these new people currently living down there, we're gonna lose them.

^But why is Greenspace looked at as unurban? I don't think any one is talking about creating huge Luke Easter Park sized Greenspaces, just relatively small community spaces spread throughout the neighborhoods. Maybe a ball park and a playground or a field. These types of spaces can be engrained in the urban fabric.

 

The biggest thing keeping families away is the crime and schools. Poor city services don't help either. Maybe the tax increase will help with that.

 

Crime and schools are clearly important but it's more than that. If our housing stock isn't conducive to what people want now, that's a problem. If there aren't enough things for your kids to do in the city (and there isn't), that's another problem. You have to create places that people want to live in. Yes it has to be safe. Yes the schools have to be good, but it also has to be inviting to people with children. And few of our neighborhoods currently are that

The biggest thing keeping families away is the crime and schools. Poor city services don't help either. Maybe the tax increase will help with that.

 

Here in Wash DC, the population grows while crime is up and public schools are still terrible.  City services are so-so. Telling fact: charter and private school enrollment has surpassed the public schools. It all seems to be about better-than-minimum wage jobs and the possibilities for advancement. Washington's lesson for Cleveland is Patrick Moynihan's "benign neglect' theory - don't waste too much time and resources on the poor. They're better at surviving than you think.  Cynical, I know, but it seems to work.

I grew up in the burbs and had a similar complaint:  nothing to do.  Other kids my age were too spread out and everything was designed for cars, so it was a hassle just getting around.  City living eliminates some of the biggest hurdles kids face.  In many ways, walkability means more to them than to anyone. 

 

And greenspace, especially little bits of it smattered everywhere, works against walkability by creating pedestrian dead zones and reducing population density.  Less population density means less ability to provide the distinctly urban amenities and experiences that give cities a chance to compete.  Cities cannot compete with suburbs in providing suburban lifestyles, which emphasize open space.  Seeking more open space is the core premise of suburban sprawl design principles.

I have three kids and we are contemplating buying a new house.  Right now, we live in a vey inner-ringish type neighborhood.  The houses are not on top of each other, but they are close enough for my older children to easily walk up and down the block to their friends' homes.  I personally have always wanted a bit more land (*ducks*), yet I honestly think the kids would hate that kind of set up. 

^But why is Greenspace looked at as unurban? I don't think any one is talking about creating huge Luke Easter Park sized Greenspaces, just relatively small community spaces spread throughout the neighborhoods. Maybe a ball park and a playground or a field. These types of spaces can be engrained in the urban fabric.

 

The biggest thing keeping families away is the crime and schools. Poor city services don't help either. Maybe the tax increase will help with that.

 

Crime and schools are clearly important but it's more than that. If our housing stock isn't conducive to what people want now, that's a problem. If there aren't enough things for your kids to do in the city (and there isn't), that's another problem. You have to create places that people want to live in. Yes it has to be safe. Yes the schools have to be good, but it also has to be inviting to people with children. And few of our neighborhoods currently are that

 

^This. It doesn't have to be perfect, but you have to have stuff to do that's nearby, inviting to children, with decent PUBLIC schools and a relatively under control level of crime.

and KJP is right about playgrounds, both indoor and outdoor. There is such a dearth of them that all my suburban mom and dad friends post when a new one is coming and will drive an hour to take their kids there. I'm already planning on taking my kid to the one in Solon that opened recently. It looks a lot like Amazone in Brunswick where we already go, but he's bored from repeated visits there and this will be a new place. We drove 45 minutes twice to go to Fun & Stuff in Macedonia this year. Kids need a place to be ACTIVE and be with other kids and with our weather as crappy as it is for so much of the year, we could use a lot more indoor play spaces. And I wish they were half the cost that they were.

and KJP is right about playgrounds, both indoor and outdoor. There is such a dearth of them that all my suburban mom and dad friends post when a new one is coming and will drive an hour to take their kids there. I'm already planning on taking my kid to the one in Solon that opened recently. It looks a lot like Amazone in Brunswick where we already go, but he's bored from repeated visits there and this will be a new place. We drove 45 minutes twice to go to Fun & Stuff in Macedonia this year. Kids need a place to be ACTIVE and be with other kids and with our weather as crappy as it is for so much of the year, we could use a lot more indoor play spaces. And I wish they were half the cost that they were.

 

And prices would drop if there were MORE OF THEM. Going right back to the point you and I have been making. We need more of them

If people's kids are bored with playgrounds that you're driving an hour and paying admission for... God Bless.  Most of this region's population can't afford any such thing. That's why it's important to have good public parks & rec, but we already do (Lakewood sends out a nice magazine about it), and we all know that no amount of spending will ever fully satisfy children.  That can't be the benchmark.

If people's kids are bored with playgrounds that you're driving an hour and paying admission for... God Bless.  Most of this region's population can't afford any such thing. That's why it's important to have good public parks & rec, but we already do (Lakewood sends out a nice magazine about it), and we all know that no amount of spending will ever fully satisfy children.  That can't be the benchmark.

 

Great, let's aspire to the lowest common denominator. Not having enough things for kids to do is why many kids get into trouble and why many families will never live in certain places. BTW, try to get your kid into the few programs that Lakewood offers. It's not enough. Nor are the parks/playgrounds very good. My wife/kid had better playgrounds (including several well-equipped indoor playgrounds provided by the government) in a much poorer Ukraine. Maybe one day you will have a kid of your own. If/when that happens, you wouldn't be writing the things you're writing. I used to think like you did because I didn't have the experience as a parent to know any better. But by all means, continue to have an opinion.

I have to admit, when friends visit me in CLE I can easily plan a week or longer, no problem.

 

When they bring kids, well, I run out of ideas pretty quickly. The place where I grew up, in contrast, has so many more options for young people you can't even compare. Also, many of those options cost little or nothing at all.

 

If you guys want to get a Kickstarter going to rebuild Euclid Beach Park or something similar I'm sure many, many people would be willing to help out.

If people's kids are bored with playgrounds that you're driving an hour and paying admission for... God Bless.  Most of this region's population can't afford any such thing. That's why it's important to have good public parks & rec, but we already do (Lakewood sends out a nice magazine about it), and we all know that no amount of spending will ever fully satisfy children.  That can't be the benchmark.

 

Great, let's aspire to the lowest common denominator. Not having enough things for kids to do is why many kids get into trouble and why many families will never live in certain places. BTW, try to get your kid into the few programs that Lakewood offers. It's not enough. Nor are the parks/playgrounds very good. My wife/kid had better playgrounds (including several well-equipped indoor playgrounds provided by the government) in a much poorer Ukraine. Maybe one day you will have a kid of your own. If/when that happens, you wouldn't be writing the things you're writing. I used to think like you did because I didn't have the experience as a parent to know any better. But by all means, continue to have an opinion.

 

We're all very proud of you.  When I was younger I played outside and explored the town I lived in.  Occasionally went to a park.  Didn't feel deprived.  I did enjoy the playground at my grade school, which alas is gone now.  But my childhood hardly revolved around that-- it revolved around my local community as a whole.

You're trying to impress an opinion of what its like to be responsible for a child based on your experiences as a child? So what's next, you telling what the experience of a teacher should be because of your experience as a student? Or the experience of a corporate executive because you worked for one once? Good luck with that.

You're trying to impress an opinion of what its like to be responsible for a child based on your experiences as a child? So what's next, you telling what the experience of a teacher should be because of your experience as a student? Or the experience of a corporate executive because you worked for one once? Good luck with that.

Or posting about trains if you're not a conductor?

Or posting about trains if you're not a conductor?

 

That's odd, I didn't realize that conductors were the only jobs involved with the railroad...

 

But thanks for trying to make a relevant comment. You almost did.

 

So, to actually bring this back to the purpose of this thread... Kids may know (but most don't because of their limited experiences) what they want from their playtime. But they don't get to decide where they live. Only parents do and that's what impacts population trends.

Some people are just clueless to the needs and desires of a demographic group outside of their own

The thing is there are a lot of neighborhoods that have playgrounds/green space, I live 2 minutes from one. The problem is the playground suffers from a lack of investment and upkeep. The swings, basketball court/hoops, jungle gym etc. are at least 20 years old. This is a common theme throughout the city. The same goes for recreation centers, there are a TON. I know people in Akron who go to recreation centers all the time and it's the same few, when asked why they said there aren't many (their words not mine). With a quick glance at the city's website there are TWENTY THREE recreation centers, many haven't been redone in YEARS. Who wants to go to outdated and aging facilities? It's like a high school graduate picking a college to attend, they are naturally drawn to the school with the shiny new toys and nice facilities, I know I was. The same goes for families looking for a place to lay roots in a neighborhood. If the neighborhood has a park that is there but looks outdated and sketchy, why would I send my child there? If the park looks like it is enjoyable, clean and safe the parent(s) would be much more willing to go.

 

For the summer in addition to the 23 recreation centers the city also has 21 outdoor swimming pools, many which are outdated and neglected. Some pools can't even stay open the entire summer due to old equipment that keeps breaking down. I've seen it myself. FINALLY when it comes to parks and playgrounds there is an ABUNDANCE of them over 100+ (I stopped counting after 100, I skipped recs and pools as well) of different shapes, sizes and functions on all sides of the city.

 

The problem isn't having an availability of parks, playgrounds, rec centers and pools, it's being able to properly fund and maintain them over the years. How can we invest in new park and playgrounds when the ones that exist are in dire need of renovation? Some may argue "well many aren't in a desirable neighborhood", well make it a desirable neighborhood. If you build it they will come, there are neighborhoods with TONS of potential that sit untouched for years, some are on the outskirts of booming neighborhoods. So no when it comes to parks, playgrounds, recs and pools for families Cleveland has plenty.

^^Agreed.  Unfortunately I don't think the Mayor's new tax increase will go to any upgrades in these facilities.  Maybe at the least we'll get another 100 full time parks and rec employees to maybe mow the grass more than 1x a summer....

 

 

^^Agreed.  Unfortunately I don't think the Mayor's new tax increase will go to any upgrades in these facilities.  Maybe at the least we'll get another 100 full time parks and rec employees to maybe mow the grass more than 1x a summer....

 

 

 

Go to silde 11:

 

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2016/08/clevelands_income_tax_increase_1.html#0

^^Agreed.  Unfortunately I don't think the Mayor's new tax increase will go to any upgrades in these facilities.  Maybe at the least we'll get another 100 full time parks and rec employees to maybe mow the grass more than 1x a summer....

 

 

 

Go to silde 11:

 

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2016/08/clevelands_income_tax_increase_1.html#0

 

Great...so the grass will continue to go unmowed....

^^Agreed.  Unfortunately I don't think the Mayor's new tax increase will go to any upgrades in these facilities.  Maybe at the least we'll get another 100 full time parks and rec employees to maybe mow the grass more than 1x a summer....

 

 

 

Go to silde 11:

 

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2016/08/clevelands_income_tax_increase_1.html#0

 

Great...so the grass will continue to go unmowed....

 

Ok, now to go slide 14.

We needed to spend that maintenance money on bus stops for Public Square, and "closed" signs to hang on the bus stops.

One of the things I like about my neighborhood on the west side of Cleveland is that there are several parks to walk to. Having nearby parks does not necessarily mean less density since families could have smaller yards if there is a nearby park for kids to play in. I met someone in my neighborhood who said he and his wife bought a house near Halloran Park because of the recreation at the park and the ability of his children to walk a block and catch a bus. 

I'm glad we have the parks we have.  Who isn't?  It's the Forest City.  The question was whether we needed to add more as the city's older housing is replaced.  I think that would have a negative effect on Population Trends.

At the risk of this thread turning into a City of Cleveland Parks thread, I wonder if any serious consideration could be given to turning the entire parks and rec operation over to the Metroparks.  I can't stop congratulating them on the turn around they've achieved at Edgewater.    I wonder what they could do if given the money and resources to at least maintain and operate Halloran, Luke Easter, etc....

At the risk of this thread turning into a City of Cleveland Parks thread, I wonder if any serious consideration could be given to turning the entire parks and rec operation over to the Metroparks.  I can't stop congratulating them on the turn around they've achieved at Edgewater.    I wonder what they could do if given the money and resources to at least maintain and operate Halloran, Luke Easter, etc....

 

We would go to Edgewater Park more often if it had a playground. A park of that size should have a playground at least comparable to the old playground at Lakewood Park, let alone the new one that's under construction. But I'd love to have a playground like that within walking distance of my home (or better still, something indoor -- the Fifth Church would have been perfect for it, but playgrounds don't make enough money to be sustained privately). It's why my wife misses the children's amenities she had in Ukraine (and that most were free and within a short walk). Everything here seems so far away to her -- driving 20 minutes for anything just blows her mind. Good thing we don't live in an outer suburb....