I was having this conversation with a few friends in relation to last week's execution(s) and was curious if anyone else brings weapons with them when downtown.  Of the people I spoke to on Saturday (all of whom live either downtown or in Ohio City), both girls have some kind of mace-like spray, I carry a small switchblade, and the two other guys don't have anything.  I was surprised that no one has a concealed firearm since they are permitted in Ohio.

 

I kind of feel a poll would be in bad taste, but I am curious what people carry with them and if they feel strongly for/against carrying some kind of weapon with them. 

 

Also, I only carry my knife when I'm either working very late or out clubbing, and I've only taken it out once, which occurred in Philly after being accosted by several potentially dangerous characters.  Very very very very scary incident, and I think it may have saved my life.

I don't have one now, but I plan to soon and I plan to get a carrying permit.

I'm armed with mace as well as my eyes, ears, and brain.  I mostly only carry the mace, though, when I'm alone.

I have not, but I plan on getting my conceal & carry as soon as possible. 

 

However, the problem with the C&C is that if you don't feel like breaking the law, you pretty much have to drive downtown, which I don't always do.  You can't get on the RTA w/ a C&C (at least I don't think).

 

Also, you can't go into any bars or schools with it, either.

 

My biggest concerns are not the bar scene, it's when I am walking to and waiting at a corridor platform, or if I have to walk to TC to catch the Rapid. 

Try going to court with one!  That's a really good point, the fact that individual businesses can ban guns means that CC is only of value if you're literally out walking around.

I know it is illegale to carry a gun in Cleveland city limits - even though Ohio law permits it.

It's a tough tradeoff.  You definitely don't want angry drunken guys waving guns at each other after a bar, and if bars permitted firearms then I wonder if there would be incidents like that.  But yeah, what's the point of a permit if you can't realistically carry it with you into private businesses.

 

That's part of the reason I use a blade.  It's sort of a tradeoff and since it's potentially saved my life once, then i say it's worht it

I know it is illegale to carry a gun in Cleveland city limits - even though Ohio law permits it.

 

That's wrong.

 

I can see not being able to carry it into a bar, because there is alcohol and bouncers.  However, not having it on the RTA?  What sense does that make?

I don't feel the need to carry a weapon, but I based on where I'm going and what time it is, my alpine knife is usually in my man bag. Stereotypical PR right?  LOL  :P

 

I carry mace as well, but I'm not entirely sure I would use it as I would probably mace myself.  :-[

 

Forgetting I had it in my bag, a knife or four of mine has been confiscated at Hopkins.  :o

^No way, you've contributed to the display of articles confiscated at Hopkins?  I've always wondered how in the hell someone could "forget" they had a knife.  Now I see.

I got my C&C when I was working for FannieMae doing foreclosures.  I was going in and out of pretty much every abandon house in Cleveland alone doing maintenance and trash outs.  Never once was I threatened or even had my truck messed with or ANYTHING stolen.  Most people just wanted to see if I was hiring.  After 3 years of doing that I am pretty convinced that 99.99% of violent crime that happens in Cleveland is either drug related or domestically related.  I have never once felt unsafe in Downtown. 

 

I have a feeling more is going to come out about that E12 murder than they are reporting.

I don't carry a gun.  As a rule I don't get myself in situations where a gun is necessary.  Or a knife.  Or mace.  Not to sound silly, but I just don't make myself a target.  And certainly this is easy for me to say as a man.  But it all seems like a false sense of security.  I learned as a kid about firearms, but most of what I learned is that using them is an absolute last resort.  If I am ever in a situation where having a gun for protection is my final line of defense, I have already lost everything I can lose.   

I once tried to design a samurai sword with integral stun gun.  That would have been sweet.

I don't carry a gun. As a rule I don't get myself in situations where a gun is necessary. Or a knife. Or mace. Not to sound silly, but I just don't make myself a target. And certainly this is easy for me to say as a man. But it all seems like a false sense of security. I learned as a kid about firearms, but most of what I learned is that using them is an absolute last resort. If I am ever in a situation where having a gun for protection is my final line of defense, I have already lost everything I can lose.

 

I understand what you're saying, but I disagree.  I think there are tons of situations where one would never imagine something happening. 

I have a feeling more is going to come out about that E12 murder than they are reporting.

 

I also think there is more to the story.

 

In one of the PD articles (sorry, no link - this was a few days ago), there was a teeny tiny paragraph that said the victims may have been trying to buy marijuana, so perhaps they followed the suspects behind a wall to complete the transaction.

 

We'll find out eventually I guess. 

 

 

^No way, you've contributed to the display of articles confiscated at Hopkins?  I've always wondered how in the hell someone could "forget" they had a knife.  Now I see.

 

It's as simple as forgetting.  Since I don't carry any luggage and only have my manbag, I sometimes forget what's in there right up until I get to the Airport Train station, then I have that "ahh ha" moment!  :weird: :weird:

 

I couple of times I've buried my knife in a potted plant and once I taped it to the sink in the bathroom since I knew I would be back home the next day and could retrieve it.

 

Once when going between chicago and LGA it go through security at both airports.  :wtf:

 

As a man I don't feel I need it, but some days I'm traveling very early in the AM or late at night and I'm half sleep.  After having a guy stick a gun in my face on the subway and attempt to take my bag, I started carrying a knife.

Note to pot buyers-- don't buy it there at 3am.  Just deal with your hangover.

the victims may have been trying to buy marijuana

 

I assume it was something like that.  The suburban kids were probably flashing money around and trying to buy pot, not saying they are at fault, but it sounds like they put themselves in a dangerous situation. 

 

Again, I firmly believe in my 99.99% rule. 

Note to pot buyers-- don't buy it there at 3am.  Just deal with your hangover.

the victims may have been trying to buy marijuana

 

I assume it was something like that.  The suburban kids were probably flashing money around and trying to buy pot, not saying they are at fault, but it sounds like they put themselves in a dangerous situation. 

 

Again, I firmly believe in my 99.99% rule. 

 

This is the part of the story I believe will come out later.  If they were trying to buy weed, they were wrong, but definitely didn't deserve to die.

 

As Jar3232 states, when you put yourself in dangerous situation (and lets face it any drug deal can go bad) something as tragic as being shot or killed can happen.

You can probably thank Bernie Goetz for why C&C isn't allowed on RTA.

 

I don't carry anything. But then, at 6'6" 270 lbs, maybe I'm a bad example. That said, I've walked through many sketchy neighborhoods back in NYC, and I've found that just keeping your eyes open (and your nose clean) will prevent you from getting into bad situations most of the time.

 

I'm down with non-lethal defensive weapons (mace, or even a stun gun), but truthfully,  I think whipping a knife out or a gun these days is asking for an escalation that many people aren't prepared for.  Plus, candidly, my guess is that the last time that someone with a C&C actually used it outside of a target range is never. Your more likely to shoot your foot off, or even worse, end up having it stolen, than you are to successfully defend yourself.

 

But hey, if it makes someone feel more secure, then go for it.

Some drug deals are more likely to go bad than others.  This one, for instance.  Most of us here, if were were with those guys that night, would have told them to forget about the damn pot.  Sounds too much like a setup.

Was there a 911 call with a girl screaming "it's my fault?"  If so, maybe they were buying (if they were buying it) for some girl?  A stupidly generous act?  No idea. 

No guns for me.  I've got my manos de piedra.  :wink:

 

I've got a friend who has a C&C and somehow I feel less safe when I am with him.  Go figure.

When I was a regular DT club-goer, I carried a knife.  I always had a gun when I lived in LA but not here.

Yikes.

You can probably thank Bernie Goetz for why C&C isn't allowed on RTA.

 

I don't carry anything. But then, at 6'6" 270 lbs, maybe I'm a bad example. That said, I've walked through many sketchy neighborhoods back in NYC, and I've found that just keeping your eyes open (and your nose clean) will prevent you from getting into bad situations most of the time.

 

I'm down with non-lethal defensive weapons (mace, or even a stun gun), but truthfully,  I think whipping a knife out or a gun these days is asking for an escalation that many people aren't prepared for.  Plus, candidly, my guess is that the last time that someone with a C&C actually used it outside of a target range is never. Your more likely to shoot your foot off, or even worse, end up having it stolen, than you are to successfully defend yourself.

 

But hey, if it makes someone feel more secure, then go for it.

 

Well I'm 6'4" and I think it all about knowing your environment.

 

I'm guilty of cutting Through the PJs to get to my crib, but then again, I know who's who.  If I don't see or "sense" something then I walk on 125 street.

 

My cousin tell me to stay of Vine street and John Cort when I go between their homes, but I don't feel like walking around.  However, not knowing the neighborhood, I have to listen to them.

 

When I was a regular DT club-goer, I carried a knife.  I always had a gun when I lived in LA but not here.

I thought you lived in Malibu.  You were straight ballin'!  You might have to change your name to Annie Oakley!  :)

I lived in Beverly Hills but I went a LOT of places where you would really feel more comfortable with a gun, not the least of which was on my daily commute into downtown.  As I avoided the freeways and took surface streets, I went through some fairly dicey areas to and from each day.  I mean, I didn't take my gun if I was just going into town to go to the drug store or whatever, but if I was leaving west LA, I took it.

Unless you really know how to use a weapon (been trained by a professional), and have the mindset to maim or kill another human without hesitation, you're better off without one.

 

Most law-abiding people will hesitate, if only for an instant. That's all it takes for someone who's street-hardened and not encumbered by compassion or conscience to take the weapon away from you and use it on you. I read someplace that seventy percent of all crime-related shootings are done with the victim's own weapon.

 

If you're going to carry a firearm for protection, you'd best be capable and mentally prepared to pull it out and blow a hole in your assailant before he even has time to register the notion that you're holding it. Then, the burden will be on you to prove that it was self-defense. It's not a place I want to go; I'd prefer to use common sense about sketchy situations and places, and if someone does demand my money, just give it up and hope for the best.

70%?  I don't have anything to counter that, but what kind of ninja training are these muggers getting?

I lived in Beverly Hills but I went a LOT of places where you would really feel more comfortable with a gun, not the least of which was on my daily commute into downtown.  As I avoided the freeways and took surface streets, I went through some fairly dicey areas to and from each day.  I mean, I didn't take my gun if I was just going into town to go to the drug store or whatever, but if I was leaving west LA, I took it.

 

Yeah!!!  now I totally agree.  Let me guess, you were on Wilshire or Olympic.  LOL

70%?  I don't have anything to counter that, but what kind of ninja training are these muggers getting?

 

It ain't an action-hero movie! Everyday life is a tough survival-training camp for some people, and the coursework is based on Darwinian concepts.

I feel a lot better with my blade, no question about it  I'm obviously not trying to seek out trouble, if anything I'm trying to avoid it even more because I (a) don't want to get escalate a bad situation should one be unavoidable and (b) don't want to get arrested for stabbing someone.  I don't even know the proper way to use a knife in a fight, how to hold it, etc, but I'm convinced it still saved me. 

 

Last year I was approached by a few gangbangers (or wannabees, I don't know) who ordered me to slow down and were speed walking to intercept me.  It happened very fast and was very scary, even though I wasn't drunk, it was night but not pitch black night, and there were even a few cars on the road (I was near my hotel in Philly, don't exactly remember what street).  They got close to me and spread out a little so it would've been hard for me to get past anyone of them unless I completely turned around or brushed against them to get by.  It was happening so fast I knew I wouldn't even have enough time to get out my cell, call 9-1-1, and report the problem so I took out my knife and popped the blade.  This COMPLETELY startled them and they let me cross as I got out my phone and pretended to talk to someone. 

 

I was completely ready to stab the one guy nearest me and kill him, and I could tell he knew it.  There was no question about it, and I was gripping onto the base so tight that I don't know how easy it would have been for him and his friends to knock it out of my hands.  The whole situation probably happened in under 30 seconds, and as I walked away really fast while looking over my shoulder ever few seconds until I got close enough to my hotel.

 

Having a weapon damn near saved me from a mugging and possibly my life, as these guys looked like they had just come straight from some federal prison.  And I had just gotten it a few months before from my cousin, so I'd hate to think what would've happened had she not given it to me or had I left it at the hotel.  At best, I would've been mugged and beaten up. 

 

 

"I read someplace that seventy percent of all crime-related shootings are done with the victim's own weapon."

 

That statement is bogus.

 

I don't care how tall, tough, or ripped you are.  If I have a gun, and you do not, I will win 99.9% of the times.

 

 

 

Unless you really know how to use a weapon (been trained by a professional), and have the mindset to maim or kill another human without hesitation, you're better off without one.

 

 

I completely agree with this.  Personally, I was trained by several professionals and maintain my shooting skills by regularly going to the range with a former police detective who is now in the FBI.  I've also been trained in personal defense maneuvers, which in many ways can be much more important than just whipping out a weapon, as a heightened awareness of your surroundings and people everywhere can help you avoid a confrontration to begin with, or get out of one before it's even begun.

Unless you really know how to use a weapon (been trained by a professional), and have the mindset to maim or kill another human without hesitation, you're better off without one.

 

Most law-abiding people will hesitate, if only for an instant. That's all it takes for someone who's street-hardened and not encumbered by compassion or conscience to take the weapon away from you and use it on you. I read someplace that seventy percent of all crime-related shootings are done with the victim's own weapon.

 

If you're going to carry a firearm for protection, you'd best be capable and mentally prepared to pull it out and blow a hole in your assailant before he even has time to register the notion that you're holding it. Then, the burden will be on you to prove that it was self-defense. It's not a place I want to go; I'd prefer to use common sense about sketchy situations and places, and if someone does demand my money, just give it up and hope for the best.

 

Depending on the situation I don't want to just "give up" my things.  I know some think that stupid and you could be killed but I refuse to just be robbed.  People work hard for their things and I believe a criminal is going to have to work to take it from me.  It not machismo, it just pisses me off, that some people think they can get away with this.  I'm a man and I'm going to stand up for myself, because I don't want someone else who is weaker to be a victim.

 

I'm pissed of just thinking about this.  My pressure is all up and things!

^It's not just an ego thing.  If some guy gets your wallet and cell, just think about all the information about you, your family, and your friends he is now privy to.  You're also protecting them by fighting back

70%? I don't have anything to counter that, but what kind of ninja training are these muggers getting?

 

It ain't an action-hero movie! Everyday life is a tough survival-training camp for some people, and the coursework is based on Darwinian concepts.

 

True that, but I do think the 70% number sounds crazy.  If that were true, it would suggest that the muggers these people are encountering are usually unarmed.  Why go to the trouble of getting their gun (risky even for Bruce Willis) if you already have one? 

"I read someplace that seventy percent of all crime-related shootings are done with the victim's own weapon."

 

That statement is bogus.

 

I don't care how tall, tough, or ripped you are.  If I have a gun, and you do not, I will win 99.9% of the times.

 

 

 

 

Well as a person who had a gun in his face, I told the guy he better make sure he kills me because if he doesn't I'm gonna kick his @ss. 

 

Some people react differently.  I got pissed, not scared.  I guess back then the adrenaline and caffeine gave me nerves of steel.  LOL

 

^It's not just an ego thing.  If some guy gets your wallet and cell, just think about all the information about you, your family, and your friends he is now privy to.  You're also protecting them by fighting back

Great point I didn't think about that.  But that is why I don't carry my work blackberry outside of the office, I'm afraid I'll lose it. Oooohhh the thought of the contacts in that thing getting out.

 

My personal phone is locked and most stuff is blocked as private so I'm less worried about that.

Depends on the day. Sometimes I go with the baseball bat. Other days I wield the battle axe.

Depends on the day. Sometimes I go with the baseball bat. Other days I wield the battle ax.

 

LMAO!  LMAO!! 

 

You're going to have to change your name to Joe Clark now!

I have carried a knife on occasion, though I doubt it does much good.  When I used to have to go into abandoned houses and buildings for work, I would carry a "D" cell Maglite, which was necessary for illumination but doubles as a nice billy club.  I never had to use it as such, but I noticed that the homeless people that lived in some of these places occasionally had things like metal poles or fire pokers stashed in convenient places, so I figured I ought to have something as well.

I've never even considered carrying a weapon.  I've been mugged at gun point (not in Cleveland) and even if I had a weapon, it wasn't going to do me any good in that situation.

FWIW, I didn't carry a weapon to avoid being mugged.  If someone held me up and demanded my money or wallet, I'd give it to them.  As a female, there are plenty of other reasons to carry a weapon for protection. I would NOT be letting someone drag me away and rape me, I can assure you of that, it would have to be a whole group of people. 

70%? I don't have anything to counter that, but what kind of ninja training are these muggers getting?

 

It ain't an action-hero movie! Everyday life is a tough survival-training camp for some people, and the coursework is based on Darwinian concepts.

 

WTF?

 

Darwinian concepts?  They created gun-powder in China like hundreds of years ago. 

 

I repeat, the 70% number is completely wrong and anti-gun propoganda.

70%? I don't have anything to counter that, but what kind of ninja training are these muggers getting?

 

It ain't an action-hero movie! Everyday life is a tough survival-training camp for some people, and the coursework is based on Darwinian concepts.

 

WTF?

 

Darwinian concepts? They created gun-powder in China like hundreds of years ago.

 

I repeat, the 70% number is completely wrong and anti-gun propoganda.

 

Chill out. 'Darwinian' refers to survival of the fittest. He's saying there's people out there with very ruthless instincts that are comfortable doing bad things to their 'prey' without a moment's hesitation. Unless you share that same unflinching resolve to use deadly force, you may find that your weapon is of no benefit.

 

It has nothing to do with how long gunpowder has been around. And his 70% was an off the cuff remark. If you have statistics that prove otherwise, post away.

Ah, so we're allowed to just throw out baseless numbers to prove an unfounded point.  Good to know.

 

When one's life is in danger, it's not an unflinching resolve to use deadly force.  Following the principles of Survival of the Fittest, it's merely a matter of doing whatever it takes to survive.  It's not some super human trait, it's basic survival. 

 

So I don't care if it's Jeff Dahmer trying to kill me.  If I have a gun, regardless of how despicable the human is, a bullet to their head will drop them. 

60% of convicted felons admitted that they avoided committing crimes when they knew the victim was armed. 40% of convicted felons admitted that they avoided committing crimes when they thought the victim might be armed. James Wright and Peter Rossi, “Armed and Considered Dangerous: A Survey of Felons and Their Firearms”, New York: Aldine, 1986.

 

When using guns in self-defense:

• 83% of robbery victims were not injured.

• 88% of assault victims were not hurt.

• 76% of all self-defense use of guns never involve firing a single shot.

National Crime Victimization Survey, 1979-1985; (a little outdated, but you get the point)

 

 

 

You are far more likely to survive a violent assault if you defend yourself with a gun. In episodes where a robbery victim was injured, the injury/defense rates were:

 

Resisting with a gun 6%

Did nothing at all 25%

Resisted with a knife 40%

Non-violent resistance 45%

 

British Home Office – not a “pro-gun” organization by any means

Ok, Paul Kersey. You're fine with your gun. For the rest of us that aren't used to being civilian avengers, we may actually find that we're not so quick on the draw when we have to 1) realize that we're being attacked, 2) decide how we want to respond to that attack and 3) draw the weapon to use it. Meanwhile, the attacker's already made their decisions and have begun acting.

 

Like I said upthread, I have no problem with people owning guns. I just think they're not as effective for protection as many would like to believe.

60% of convicted felons admitted that they avoided committing crimes when they knew the victim was armed. 40% of convicted felons admitted that they avoided committing crimes when they thought the victim might be armed. James Wright and Peter Rossi, “Armed and Considered Dangerous: A Survey of Felons and Their Firearms”, New York: Aldine, 1986.

 

When using guns in self-defense:

• 83% of robbery victims were not injured.

• 88% of assault victims were not hurt.

• 76% of all self-defense use of guns never involve firing a single shot.

National Crime Victimization Survey, 1979-1985; (a little outdated, but you get the point)

 

 

 

You are far more likely to survive a violent assault if you defend yourself with a gun. In episodes where a robbery victim was injured, the injury/defense rates were:

 

Resisting with a gun 6%

Did nothing at all 25%

Resisted with a knife 40%

Non-violent resistance 45%

 

British Home Office – not a “pro-gun” organization by any means

 

these statistics don't indicate whether or not/or how many of the perpetrators had guns; and of course there’s a difference between being threatened by a psychopath like Jeffery Dahmer and becoming the victim of a run-of-the-mill mugging. All the posturing I’m reading about fighting back when you have a gun pointed at you is just a bunch of pseudo-macho bluster—at least I hope it is! I was robbed at gunpoint once in an area considered “safe” (Noho--on Lafayette St) and not that late at night (10:30) by two kids (they looked about 17). I obediently gave them everything I had ($11.00), but they didn’t take my wallet. What amount of money or possessions is worth losing your life over !?!; although in my case I don’t wear Prada on the subway (or anywhere else, for that matter) like some people :wink:

When I used to have to go into abandoned houses and buildings for work, I would carry a "D" cell Maglite, which was necessary for illumination but doubles as a nice billy club.

 

I also use the D-Cell Maglite. I have it in my car and it doesn't even work right now. I have another, smaller LED Maglite if I need a flashlight. But the D-Cell and my razor sharp kershaw knife both ride with me whenever I'm in my car. I usually don't carry the knife, only when I am walking around some of the sketchy hoods in Williamsport, and that is usually rare for me.