The op-ed below prompted me to ask this question. It was sent to me by friend in Baltimore. I don't know if I am sick of defending my choice to live in the city as I am sick of the feeling that I am compelled to feel like I should defend it. I don't know why I feel like lower taxes and "higher rated" school districts are apparent reasons to live somewhere and aren't to be questioned but walkibility, diversity and quality older housing (IMO) are not. Oh and shorter commutes and proximity to downtown too. I guess I would apply this to Ohio and our regions too. I don't want to give everybody a big middle finger when they question where I live but I want to be able to gush about great it is without feeling like I need to defend my city and my choice.

 

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/opinion/oped/bal-op.viewpoint05mar05,0,827043.story

 

Viewpoint: Baltimore doesn't need me to defend it

By Seth Sawyers

March 5, 2009

I'm tired of defending Baltimore.

 

Not long ago, I overheard a buddy of mine, a guy I work with who lives in D.C., saying of my city, "It's OK, if you like boarded-up houses." He's got a point. From where I live near downtown, if you walk east or west, pretty soon you'll come to places in which you won't want to be - whole blocks with little life but plenty of what life looks like after it's left: houses missing roofs, graffiti on walls, hundreds of stenciled notices for numbers to call if something living gets trapped inside a dead place. ....

I share you sentiment, but I'm afraid the defending is still necessary.  We'll know when it no longer is.

I view defending Williamsport as a challenge that only makes me stronger in my debate.  What I get sick of is the blatant negativity and ridicule some people have without even taking time to see the good things.  That's when I get frustrated. But then I'm on a warpath and it's a fun challenge.  Sometimes I sway them and sometimes I don't, but I know I leave thoughts in their minds.  It's up to them to decide.

I was with the guy until he said he liked the potholes.  I don't care where I am.  I don't like the potholes.

 

Otherwise, I mostly agree with his sentiments.  I've lived in Cincinnati my whole life, and while I plan on leaving relatively soon, I'll always love this town.

 

Myself, I love that I can walk to a park that overlooks a river valley (Eden Park).  I love that I have no shortage of truely great locally owned businesses to offer my patronage.  I love the hills of the city, even if science tells me it's horrible for my gas mileage.  I love that I can get a six-pack of great beer for under $15, and a six-pack of this'll-do-beer for $5.  And I certainly love that I can afford a huge apartment for a fraction of what I would I would pay for a much smaller one in some larger cities. 

Tell me about it. I just try to positively promote it when I can.

Trust me, it an't easy defending Dayton, especially out in OUR OWN SUBURBS, WHICH CANNOT SEE ANY BENEFIT OF THE CITY WHATSOEVER!!!!!

 

It's honestly ridiculous and dispicable, and most suburbanites actually have a strong, pent-up hate toward the center city, like it was their ex-girlfriend or something. I don't get it.

Trust me, it an't easy defending Dayton, especially out in OUR OWN SUBURBS, WHICH CANNOT SEE ANY BENEFIT OF THE CITY WHATSOEVER!!!!!

 

It's honestly ridiculous and dispicable, and most suburbanites actually have a strong, pent-up hate toward the center city, like it was their ex-girlfriend or something. I don't get it.

 

Your avatar gets it.

As negative as people say Clevelanders are about their city, I found that the time I was in LA I was much more regularly and vehemently defending Cleveland than I ever have to another Clevelander here in town.  Same goes for visiting out of state friends who used to live here.  Nobody is more down on Cleveland than people who used to live here and left it seems, except for me when I lived in LA.  I think there are things to love and hate about living wherever you live, but I missed quite a bit of Cleveland when I lived in LA.  I miss those LA things that I loved still to this day, but there aren't as many, and when I visit I'm mostly relieved that I don't live there any longer, though it would be nice to have access to the things I miss. 

 

People were so, so denigrating of our town who had never even been to the state before.  It was terrible.  And while Clevelanders bitch to each other about things they hate here, I feel they can quickly come up with a whole positives when put in a position to come up with them, such as when defending the area to outsiders.

Trust me, it an't easy defending Dayton, especially out in OUR OWN SUBURBS, WHICH CANNOT SEE ANY BENEFIT OF THE CITY WHATSOEVER!!!!!

 

It's honestly ridiculous and dispicable, and most suburbanites actually have a strong, pent-up hate toward the center city, like it was their ex-girlfriend or something. I don't get it.

 

Yeah, that's a tough one.  I don't know how I'd even begin defending Dayton. 

I am not tired of defending my city.  Actually, it's one of my favorite topics (why I love Cleveland, that is) - in fact, I just took my mother-in-law out to lunch at Great Lakes and told her all that I know about Ohio City and the many wonderful things in the neighborhood.  She loved the neighborhood, the architecture, the houses, the age.  "We don't have anything old in Florida, other than people", she said.  "I think its good for kids growing up to see character in their neighborhoods" (hinting towards the when will you be having kids theme).

 

I do get a little tired of Cleveland giving me reasons to have to defend it, but I won't get tired of telling people how much I love it.

I really think that media (our own and national) really play to people perceptions about Ohio and her cities. I believe C-dawg has a rant somewhere on the forum. Like I said earlier, I just want to get to the point where I don't feel the need to defend my decisions and gush about the good things, without feeling that I to put an asterisk on my statement about crime or higher taxes.

 

RR,

You are right it is amazing the people who have never been to ohio and  slag off Cleveland (probably from talking to the legions of ex-ohians) but I am also always amazed at the number of people who are blown away and love the city when they visit. My personal favorite is when I have friends sort of question why we live were we live and then go on and on how they love my street and the wood work and details of my house. It's funny.

 

"We don't have anything old in Florida, other than people",

 

That's awesome.

 

RR,

You are right it is amazing the people who have never been to ohio and slag off Cleveland (probably from talking to the legions of ex-ohians) but I am also always amazed at the number of people who are blown away and love the city when they visit.

 

I agree with this.  It's easier to get people from other Midwestern areas to visit than someone from one of the coasts though.  I usually start with housing prices and after some quick discussion on that front, they often shut up.  And then I talk about how much cheaper the food costs and usually put the final blow in when discussing car insurance and registration (at least when I talk to CA people).  When I lived in CA I have a 5 year old, nothing-special Ford and it cost me close $900 just to register it.  Part of that was a one-time fee I had to pay when registering an out of state car, but still, I think the regular registration was $600.  I bet everyone here shuts the hell up next time they go to the BMV to renew their registration, won't they? :)  I cannot even remember the ridiculous amount my car insurance cost, and I was only there a year and a half and was of course in a fender bender in that time and my insurance went up after that.  When you drive everywhere and there are that many people on the road, you're going to get in some kind of trouble be it a ticket or a fender bender or whatever.  It's incredibly expensive to just exist in a place like that because so many things cost so much more.  Gas, food, lodging, meals out, clothing, etc.  Yes, you make more $, but IMO it's not a proportionate rise. So cost of living is usually a great argument.

Nobody is more down on Cleveland than people who used to live here and left it seems, except for me when I lived in LA.

 

Whenever I meet another Clevelander (or any other midwesterner for that matter) here in NYC, I have to feel them out to see where they fall on the spectrum between (1) I am living here but still love/respect Cleveland and (2) thank god I got the f%^* out of that place and found civilization here.  The people towards the (2) extreme usually know very little about Cleveland are essentially comparing Brunswick to the East Village in their head which is, needless to say, incredibly infuriating.

Demanding respect is far more effective than begging for it.  We also need to do more to earn it, or neither one will do much good.

Nobody is more down on Cleveland than people who used to live here and left it seems, except for me when I lived in LA.

 

Whenever I meet another Clevelander (or any other midwesterner for that matter) here in NYC, I have to feel them out to see where they fall on the spectrum between (1) I am living here but still love/respect Cleveland and (2) thank god I got the f%^* out of that place and found civilization here. The people towards the (2) extreme usually know very little about Cleveland are essentially comparing Brunswick to the East Village in their head which is, needless to say, incredibly infuriating.

 

I agree.  I actually run into a lot of people electronically or on the phone via aspects of my job who live in other states who are originally from somewhere in Ohio, and by and large, those who live anywhere else EXCEPT CA or NY seem to have positive things to say.  I have no friends in NY who have anything positive to say about the fact that they grew up in Ohio.  I think it's a "new yorker" thing, and that there's a similar snobbery in CA.

Exposure to the City as a youth makes a big difference. So many kids grow up not knowing Cleveland that they don't even consider living in the City when they graduate from college. They are trading Westlake for Chicago or NYC. They don't even realize that we've got some nice urbanism going on here as well.

Exposure to the City as a youth makes a big difference. So many kids grow up not knowing Cleveland that they don't even consider living in the City when they graduate from college. They are trading Westlake for Chicago or NYC. They don't even realize that we've got some nice urbanism going on here as well.

 

I completely agree.  When I moved back to Cleveland, I intially moved back in with my parents (in suburbia....it's like the darkness is light...suburbia, am I scaring you tonight? suburbia, ain't used to what you like, suburbiaiaiaiaaaa.....) while I figured out where I wanted to live.  When I eventually chose downtown as a permanent residence some people - life long Northeastern Ohioans - looked at me with alien eyes. 

 

"How are you going to walk your dogs?"

"Uh...outside?  On a leash?"

 

Of course, they come over to hang out and explore the area and while I am not sure what they were expecting, of course their opinion changes and they love it.

While I defend Cleveland to the Nth degree, there is a battle that rages in my heart and mind every so often.  For the most part, Pro-Cle wins out.  But every so often, I wonder if I am fighting to save a sinking ship.

 

When outsiders speak negatively of Cleveland, I almost get the same rage I feel when someone outside of my family speaks poorly of my family.  Like that woman from Broadway and that travel writer who suggested that St. Clair Superior ain't the best neighborhood (no sh!t). 

 

People who move away and then turn around and speak negatively are the worse, however.  I find them usually to be insecure, and thus if it's "cool" to rip on Cleveland, they'll rip on Cleveland.  I worked with 7 early 20 somethings this past summer, and here is how they felt:

 

DC: snickered derisively whenever Cleveland was mentioned

Boston: open-minded about it, but did not understand the crime issues

Alaska: only knew of RRHF

Philly: had friends who rep'd the city well

LA: open-minded, wanted to visit; thought it would be too cold

Kentucky: loved driving thru Cle on the way to Buffalo.  Would always stop at UC & downtown.  It was one of the happier moments of my life.

That's 6, and 5 of them seem neutral-to-positive.

Trust me, it an't easy defending Dayton, especially out in OUR OWN SUBURBS, WHICH CANNOT SEE ANY BENEFIT OF THE CITY WHATSOEVER!!!!!

 

It's honestly ridiculous and dispicable, and most suburbanites actually have a strong, pent-up hate toward the center city, like it was their ex-girlfriend or something. I don't get it.

 

Yeah, that's a tough one. I don't know how I'd even begin defending Dayton.

 

I do, have done it, and will continue to lay the smack down on any city that messes with the Hunnid Spokes.

Every time I mention to someone in my family (well, the ones on my step dad's side, most of whom are suburb lovers) that I went to Cleveland or want to live in Cleveland they always ask me why and then make comments about the 'crime' and how there is nothing to do. I then give them my reasons for loving the city and then they eventually admit that they haven't been to the Cleve (except for games) in like 20 years.

While I defend Cleveland to the Nth degree, there is a battle that rages in my heart and mind every so often.  For the most part, Pro-Cle wins out.  But every so often, I wonder if I am fighting to save a sinking ship.

 

When outsiders speak negatively of Cleveland, I almost get the same rage I feel when someone outside of my family speaks poorly of my family.  Like that woman from Broadway and that travel writer who suggested that St. Clair Superior ain't the best neighborhood (no sh!t). 

 

People who move away and then turn around and speak negatively are the worse, however.  I find them usually to be insecure, and thus if it's "cool" to rip on Cleveland, they'll rip on Cleveland.  I worked with 7 early 20 somethings this past summer, and here is how they felt:

 

DC: snickered derisively whenever Cleveland was mentioned

Boston: open-minded about it, but did not understand the crime issues

Alaska: only knew of RRHF

Philly: had friends who rep'd the city well

LA: open-minded, wanted to visit; thought it would be too cold

Kentucky: loved driving thru Cle on the way to Buffalo.  Would always stop at UC & downtown.  It was one of the happier moments of my life.

 

AMEN Polyester Man, AMEN.

 

At work whether it be general and especially in sports, I have no problem defending CLE.  Luckily I'm the boss...so I always have the last word! ;)

Surprised the cincy guys haven't come by yet. They have it pretty hard up from their north metro at times.

 

That's 6, and 5 of them seem neutral-to-positive.

 

Ha.  I'm undercover UO at work right now.  Thus, I did not mean to lump in anti-Clevelanders with my fellow employees. 

 

I also forgot to add that my friends who have moved to NYC are usually the worst about hating on their hometown. 

nah... Cincy doesn't need to be defended... it's a gem, and thats known in the business world, especially from it's strong fortune 1000 presence. A distinct local flavor that's matched by none in the midwest.

^I don't think Cincy has as negative a national rep as the CLE. 

I see the set up.  This isn't directed at you Polyester Man, but I sincerly hope that this thread does not turn into a pissing match.

What was the set up?

 

Oh, the Cincy is world-renowned comment...

Nobody is more down on Cleveland than people who used to live here and left it seems, except for me when I lived in LA. 

 

Whenever I meet another Clevelander (or any other midwesterner for that matter) here in NYC, I have to feel them out to see where they fall on the spectrum between (1) I am living here but still love/respect Cleveland and (2) thank god I got the f%^* out of that place and found civilization here.  The people towards the (2) extreme usually know very little about Cleveland are essentially comparing Brunswick to the East Village in their head which is, needless to say, incredibly infuriating.

 

This drives me crazy.  One of my HS friends moved to Chicago last year.  When you talk to him now, he's always talking about how great his new neighborhood (Lincoln Park) is compared to where he lived in NEO before he moved (and therefor how much better Chicago is than Cleveland).  I want to scream "Of course it is, you lived in a cluster home off of Bagley Rd west of Berea!"

What do I think of Cincinatti?

I don't think of it.

 

Let it begin...

Nobody is more down on Cleveland than people who used to live here and left it seems, except for me when I lived in LA. 

 

Whenever I meet another Clevelander (or any other midwesterner for that matter) here in NYC, I have to feel them out to see where they fall on the spectrum between (1) I am living here but still love/respect Cleveland and (2) thank god I got the f%^* out of that place and found civilization here.  The people towards the (2) extreme usually know very little about Cleveland are essentially comparing Brunswick to the East Village in their head which is, needless to say, incredibly infuriating.

 

This drives me crazy.  One of my HS friends moved to Chicago last year.  When you talk to him now, he's always talking about how great his new neighborhood (Lincoln Park) is compared to where he lived in NEO before he moved (and therefor how much better Chicago is than Cleveland).  I want to scream "Of course it is, you lived in a cluster home off of Bagley Rd west of Berea!"

 

Why don't you?  I think you should, that would shut him up.  I love it how people will move from the 'burbs to another city and then trash their home city/region.  Yet when they lived in their home town they did nothing to try to improve it.

I think what Palijandro said is objectively true, Cleveland has a much bigger problem with this than Cincy does.  That's why the posts here are what they are.  And I don't think the Peachtree fellow was being facetious about Cincy being in a different tier as far as businesses are concerned. 

 

In my opinion, Cleveland needs to step up its efforts on defending itself.  Ignoring the stream of hate that constantly flows our way ends up giving it credibility.  We can't stick our heads in the sand about it, nor can we just open a few restaurants and say TA-DA and expect the rest of the country to smile and say they were just kidding around this whole time.

That drives me crazy about Cleveland suburbanites.  They never give a thought to living in the city, yet once they move out, they say how much better Lincoln Park, etc is.  Why more of the youth don't grow up with the idea of living in the city kind of perplexes me.  Hell, I was one of them.  I never thought of it until I started grad school. 

People who move away and then turn around and speak negatively are the worse, however.  I find them usually to be insecure, and thus if it's "cool" to rip on Cleveland, they'll rip on Cleveland. 

 

I think that most people who move away by choice will always say that they like their new city better because if they don't then they'd have to admit they made a mistake.

I think what Palijandro said is objectively true, Cleveland has a much bigger problem with this than Cincy does.  That's why the posts here are what they are.  And I don't think the Peachtree fellow was being facetious about Cincy being in a different tier as far as businesses are concerned.  In my opinion, Cleveland needs to step up its efforts on defending itself.  Ignoring the stream of hate that constantly flows our way ends up giving it credibility.  We can't stick our heads in the sand about it, nor can we just open a few restaurants and say TA-DA and expect the rest of the country to smile and say they were just kidding around.

 

I disagree.  This is not meant as slander to any one Ohio community.  Most of the people I know, Cleveland, Ohio.  They know Ohio State is located in Columbus, but the majority couldn't tell you anything about Dayton, Toledo, Cinci, etc.

 

327, I agree that Cleveland needs a PR campaign and those of you who have been here for a while, know that I've been vocal about that for years.

 

However, the "negativity" is from within our own borders.  Most people outside the region have a favorable opinion of Cleveland/NE Ohio.

It's the difference between the US and Europeans... most euros are proud and love their home towns... most americans don't.

 

But again, from an outsiders view, Cincy very seldom gets bad press, or word of mouth.

 

No city in the midwest has a:

 

Roebling Bridge, Music Hall, Union Terminal, Over the Rhine, Mt Adams, local dominent bank, grocer, department store, convenience store, pizza parlor and chili chain etc that dominate the local landscape. Most of the midwest has been bastardized with a national presense.

 

Cincy is very lucky... the bigiest enemy of Cincy is the locals who have no knowledge of what Cincy is all about...

You guys in Dayton and Cleveland have nothing on us here in Youngstown! Even living in the suburbs and small towns you have to defend yourself to friends and classmates who have moved away. People are always telling me that the Youngstown area sucks and they will never move back.

 

My brother moved to Snead's Ferry, NC (pop. 2,500) near Jacksonville, NC and he had the nerve to tell me there is more to do there than there is back home. I ended up winning that argument. He has to drive 2 hours to the airport, 4 hours for NBA or NFL, no MLB, closest nice mall is an hour away, so on and so forth. His one argument back was, "well, i have a jet ski here!" I told him he could have a jet ski where we live too. Mosquito Lake is 5 minutes down the road. Grrr!!!!

 

What gets me the most is when people say, "Cortlandgirl, there are no jobs in the Mahoning Valley or Northeast Ohio, you need to move to Columbus or down south". That pisses me off to no end! First of all, no offense to anyone here, but i despise Columbus. I also don't care for the southern heat and humidity and i actually like the snow. I"m so sick and tired of other people's parents telling me i need move because "This area is dead". Most of their kids never even bothered to look for a job here, they just assumed that there were none.

 

Another thing that bothers me is when someone says something bad about Northeast Ohio and everyone else in the conversation piles on. When someone starts bashing the Mahoning Valley, Northeast Ohio or Ohio in general I speak up and make it known that i like it here and I don't plan on moving. Usually if i say that someone else will speak up and say they like it too.

 

If they say there is nothing to do there i ask them what they like and then give examples of all the great things there are to do here. I can't believe so many people that grew up here don't have a clue on what there is to do.

However, the "negativity" is from within our own borders. Most people outside the region have a favorable opinion of Cleveland/NE Ohio.

 

That hasn't always been apparent.  I'm not well-travelled enough to form a clear personal view; mine is based on national media snippets which seem to trend derogatory.  Even the positive ones are usually backhanded.

The national media portrays Cincy as incredibly racist.  See OTR riots, Bill Cunningham, etc.  Not saying it's true, but that's what I see.

That drives me crazy about Cleveland suburbanites.  They never give a thought to living in the city, yet once they move out, they say how much better Lincoln Park, etc is.  Why more of the youth don't grow up with the idea of living in the city kind of perplexes me.  Hell, I was one of them.  I never thought of it until I started grad school. 

 

I worked with a woman from Seven Hills, that raved about living on the NYC and how she hated Cleveland and it was nasty, dangerous and she can't do any of the things she does in NYC in Cleveland.  She claimed, The museums suck, there are no restaurants, she can't shop, no trains or buses that are run down, etc.  Everyone is stuck on 1985

 

All her statement where completely inaccurate.  I would ask her specific questions about the city and she would answer, "I don't know".  I'm like your from bitching and never ventured into the city, but cannot give a head to head comparison?  That makes a whole-hellova-lot-of-sense.  So I had to bring her down a notch, when I told said, "You should have tried to learn about the largest city in the region and what it has to offer, instead trashing Cleveland.  However, I guess you're living the New York dream in Newark, NJ so nobody can tell you anything!" 

 

It gave me great pleasure to fire her!

Cincy's biggest enemies are its own locals looking for affirmation on their choice to move to the burbs. On the national level ... not so much.

My two cities are Chicago and Louisville. 

 

Chicago needs no defense.  But I get tired of defending Louisville, which is a city people in this region particually like to put-down (in various subtle and not-so-subtle ways).  Among Louisvillians, though (both city people and suburbanites), there is a lot of civic pride.  I should say the other larger KY city, Lexington, is similar. 

I think anyone who moves away from the area they grow up has a negative opinion of their "home" area, else why would they have left.  I really see very little good in my home town and I would never move back there.  One tiny corner of cleveland has more going for it IMO than anywhere in my home town.  But then lots of people still live there and love it, because they never left.

RNR you have a point, it wasn't until I moved to London, that I truly appreciated Cleveland.

Now that I'm older, I'm convinced New York, LA, San Francisco, Boston, and Chicago function as their own worlds.

 

Chicagoland! It's own world.  (parts of Wisconsin as honorary member).

 

 

I think anyone who moves away from the area they grow up has a negative opinion of their "home" area, else why would they have left. I really see very little good in my home town and I would never move back there. One tiny corner of cleveland has more going for it IMO than anywhere in my home town. But then lots of people still live there and love it, because they never left.

 

Remember, there are lots of UO participants who have moved away but still love their hometown.  Sometimes folks who have established lives elsewhere for various reasons just aren't ready to move back...

Exposure to the City as a youth makes a big difference. So many kids grow up not knowing Cleveland that they don't even consider living in the City when they graduate from college.

 

That's the issue in Ohio, but the reasons are complicated. There is no denying that the job market in this state is tougher than other states. You can typically find a better job in some suburban dump like Phoenix or Dallas. I'd like to hope people are moving out more because of jobs, rather than just a hatred towards home, which if you're from a boring sprawl suburb is understandable I guess. I'd actually blame the parents more than the kids. The kid didn't choose to live in sprawl, the parent did. The blind worldview is sort of expected in suburbia I'm afraid. Parents need to think long and hard about where they raise a family, because it will affect them positively or negatively for the rest of their lives. Sprawl is not healthy for anybody, but it's probably worst on children. What I find most disturbing in Ohio is the decline of the inner ring and streetcar suburbs. These seem like good places to raise a family, but instead people opt for modern sprawlburgs.

 

I think the problem, most certainly for Columbus, is that inner-ring suburbs are $$$. So yes, Clintonville or Bexley or Grandview would be nice places to raise a family, but if you can't find something you can afford, there really isn't much to choose from and families generally aren't pioneers for gentrification. Downtown is safe, but nearby city schools don't have a good rep.

 

I was raised out in the burbs my whole life and it was going to OSU that really opened my eyes + living abroad in Spain, car-less. I always had an inclination for cities and preferred them to the dull, drab dime-a-dozen suburbs (Are we in Ohio or Massachusetts? Well, the Wal-Mart is on a hill, so MA).

I don't know if I'm sick of defending Youngstown, but I find it very tiring sometimes.  As Cortlandgirl mentioned above, so many people are ignorant of the good qualities of the area.  I try to show people the Youngstown that I see, but some people just aren't interested.

I think anyone who moves away from the area they grow up has a negative opinion of their "home" area, else why would they have left.  I really see very little good in my home town and I would never move back there.  One tiny corner of cleveland has more going for it IMO than anywhere in my home town.  But then lots of people still live there and love it, because they never left.

 

I disagree.  I left Cleveland to go to college, the only other choices in the state were Toledo, Ohio State, and Ohio Northern.  Given those choices, one can understand why I choose UC!  After 38 years, Cleveland is still home.