I was lucky enough to gobble up two tickets to this previous weekends subway tours put on by the Over-The-Rhine foundation. Seeing the subway is a rare experience. Many don't even know that the city of Cincinnati has an abandoned subway right beneath their feet.

 

There are many other photographs on the internet, but most people just used the standard flash on their camera. I used a tripod, long exposures and light painting to try and make these work.

 

The photos:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

My personal favorite:

 

 

 

That's right Cincinnati has a subway!

 

...it was just never completed. :p

 

To see even MORE PICTURES, read about the tour and my previous attempts to get into the subways, check out my latest update at www.queencitydisco.com

 

 

 

Very cool images!  The different lights you see give a cool affect.  I'm up for doing the tour sometime, although I kind of want to see it myself so people aren't in the photos, but I'm not sure how the locals would react to that.  In Detroit, police and even some building owners turn a blind eye to photographers doing this stuff.

These are great.  It would really be a waste if we just let these tunnels sit there unused.  Light rail here we come.

Well done!

.. perhaps .. one of the biggest mistake of Cincinnati .. not to built a subway ..

Thanks for the replies everyone, glad you enjoyed the photographs.

 

One of the things I could see happening for the tunnels beneath Central Parkway is the tunnels being used for streetcar. Run the streetcar line through the tunnels then out of the portals near I-75. Have the lines join up with the Western Hills Viaduct then head out west.

 

I don't know about this, maybe jmecklenborg will chime in with a more informed opinion, but with the streetcars being smaller than typical subway trains....they could possibly run parallel streetcar lines without disturbing the water main.

Streetcars should not be used in tunnels.  The point of streetcars is to operate as neighborhood circulators.  They want and need to be on the street and visible to be successful.  People need to hop on and off as they wish with stops every two blocks or so.

 

Light rail sees the benefits of grade separation through the increased travel speeds, safer travel to city neighborhoods, and works well with the relatively infrequent stops in the tunnel.

 

The physical differences between light rail and streetcars are minimal, but how they operate in a sociological way as they relate to human behaviors and patterns are completely different.  Think of the differences between streets like Stratford Avenue in CUF and Columbia Parkway.  They serve two completely different purposes even though they are both roads at first glance.  To take it a step further, high-speed rail would be the interstate/highway equivalent.

Well I'm not saying keep the streetcars underground for good, just use existing infrastructure if it would possibly help keep costs down. The line would emerge eventually outside and be visible outside all the way to the west.

 

Keep in mind the Subway beneath Central Parkway was designed with the intent to not only support subway rail cars, but the streetcars and interurban railroads.

 

We have the CPKWY tunnels and the riverfront transit center...I think once these first phases of streetcars are successful we'll begin making baby steps towards light rail. Charlotte is a great example of mixed light rail and streetcars, as you pointed out in your recent post Rando.

These are excellent photos. Painting with light reveals a lot more detail and distance than a flash, and presents the area more realistically.

 

I'm glad you were able to do this. I've heard previous reports that they didn't allow photography on the tours.

We have the CPKWY tunnels and the riverfront transit center...I think once these first phases of streetcars are successful we'll begin making baby steps towards light rail. Charlotte is a great example of mixed light rail and streetcars, as you pointed out in your recent post Rando.

 

You could use them for streetcars, but I'm not sure you minimize any costs, and I also think you damage the intent of what streetcars do for an urban area by putting them underground.

 

The tunnels alone will cost an estimated $115 million just to be brought back up to rail standard given you build them to light rail specs as done in Charlotte.  There are 2.2 miles of tunnels underneath Central Parkway...if you break out the $115 million that's about $52.3 million per mile.  Streetcar construction costs about half of that ($25 million per mile).  Light rail construction costs average around $40 million per mile making it more similar to the tunnel rail costs, and like I said before, light rail actually sees the benefits of grade separation that streetcars don't...thus making it more reasonable to use the $30-40 million asset we have beneath Central Parkway.

I have always wondered how much work was done on the Cincinnati subway before it was abandoned. From these pictures, I see that work was well advanced. It's sad to think about what could have been.

 

Of course there is nothing in the US like the NYC subway system, but I love the subway lines in the smaller cities, such as Pittsburgh and Buffalo, where you would not expect to find trains running underground.

 

Oh well. Cincinnati is still a great place, even without its subway, and its best days, I'm sure, are yet ahead.

These are excellent photos. Painting with light reveals a lot more detail and distance than a flash, and presents the area more realistically.

 

I'm glad you were able to do this. I've heard previous reports that they didn't allow photography on the tours.

 

Thank you Rob! After trying out photographs in other tunnels, I was hoping using light painting and a tripod would work down here and I think it paid off well. You're correct about previous tours. Last year the Historical Society was putting on tours and made a point about how no cameras were allowed. On Flickr, one user posted a photo from that tour with the caption: "This is the only picture I was able to take inside the subway before the security team tackled me to the ground. Actually, they didn't seem to care, and this made me wonder whether I should have tried taking more shots inside (it's technically forbidden)."

...thus making it more reasonable to use the $30-40 million asset we have beneath Central Parkway.

 

Rando one day I'm going to buy/rent those tunnels from the city and create my own subway line down there, except I'll be driving my van up and down the line, transporting passengers and you have to listen to 700 WLW as you ride. :)

 

Oh well. Cincinnati is still a great place, even without its subway, and its best days, I'm sure, are yet ahead.

 

I couldn't agree more, and once the streetcars prove to be a success, I feel Cincinnati will be on it's way to finally getting light rail

 

Rando one day I'm going to buy/rent those tunnels from the city and create my own subway line down there, except I'll be driving my van up and down the line, transporting passengers and you have to listen to 700 WLW as you ride. :)

 

Count me in.

 

Again, these are great shots that really show the detail of the place that I haven't been able to see in any of the photos that are popular online already. 

 

It really, really resembles the NYC subway.  Finish the platforms and walls with some tile and it's dead on.

Ya, those are some really fricken awesome looking photographs there GordonBombay!

I borrowed a book from the library about two years ago that had a picture of a nearly-completed above-ground subway station. It didn't list the location or the year the photo was taken, but the photo was clearly old. Does anyone know about it? Does it still exist?

>One of the things I could see happening for the tunnels beneath Central Parkway is the tunnels being used for streetcar. Run the streetcar line through the tunnels then out of the portals near I-75. Have the lines join up with the Western Hills Viaduct then head out west. One of the things I could see happening for the tunnels beneath Central Parkway is the tunnels being used for streetcar. Run the streetcar line through the tunnels then out of the portals near I-75. Have the lines join up with the Western Hills Viaduct then head out west.

 

>I don't know about this, maybe jmecklenborg will chime in with a more informed opinion, but with the streetcars being smaller than typical subway trains....they could possibly run parallel streetcar lines without disturbing the water main.

 

That's actually a pretty interesting idea.  The individual tubes are quite wide, about 13ft., but I doubt the FTA would allow it even if it's technically possible.  There is also such thing as a suicide track but that offers no operational advantage over single track in this situation.

There's also the prospect of single-track express running, or single-track running with a station or stations where trains can wait for clear track.   

Or one track in the tunnel, one track on the surface!  In Portland there are two stretches of single-track and neither seem to cause any operational problems because they are close to the south end of the line.  So trains at the south end of the line are staged until the time's right to make a run for it.  Actually the section of single track closest to the South Waterfront is where they reach their top speed for about 500ft. 

 

The greater issue here is that new longer modern streetcars are being produced which have the advantages of light rail's high capacity but can run on modern streetcar track.  In short they're able to manufacture more powerful motors and robust chassis from lighter materials and this avoids the need for utilities to be reconstructed for in-street running for light rail. It also reduces material costs for overpasses. 

 

Also, the photos look a lot better than the last time I shot digital in the subway, with a D70.  The D70 took terrible night photos and totally misinterpreted sunlight as green when white balanced for tungsten.  Also, it could not handle the "halo" caused by all the kicked up dust. 

 

 

 

We have the CPKWY tunnels and the riverfront transit center...I think once these first phases of streetcars are successful we'll begin making baby steps towards light rail. Charlotte is a great example of mixed light rail and streetcars, as you pointed out in your recent post Rando.

 

You could use them for streetcars, but I'm not sure you minimize any costs, and I also think you damage the intent of what streetcars do for an urban area by putting them underground.

 

The tunnels alone will cost an estimated $115 million just to be brought back up to rail standard given you build them to light rail specs as done in Charlotte. There are 2.2 miles of tunnels underneath Central Parkway...if you break out the $115 million that's about $52.3 million per mile. Streetcar construction costs about half of that ($25 million per mile). Light rail construction costs average around $40 million per mile making it more similar to the tunnel rail costs, and like I said before, light rail actually sees the benefits of grade separation that streetcars don't...thus making it more reasonable to use the $30-40 million asset we have beneath Central Parkway.

 

I'm just dying for more info from council on a plan to use these tunnels for a light rail system.  I keep hoping that something is in the works and that we'll find out eventually.

The key question is if a downtown > subway > Camp Washington > Northside line makes any sense IF metro starts turning buses around at Knowlton's corner.  The number of buses that converge at Knowlton's Corner, then head downtown is a bit insane.  Light rail leaving every 10 minutes from that corner could reduce an awful lot of buses and spur redevelopment in Camp Washington, coinciding with reconstruction of the Hopple St. interchange.  I think there is potential for Camp Washington to become a viable location for new offices due to its highway visibility, kind of like all the stuff that has sprouted up along I-71 between Evenston and Kenwood. 

I think jmecklenborg makes an excellent point about Camp Washington being the place for new office development. Wasn't there talk recently of taking the old Crosley Radio Factory and turning it into an office building?

I can think of no better use for Light Rail in Cincinnati in the short term that collecting a bunch of dt-headed Metro routes and taking them off the streets and instead using the subway into dt. The collection potential for that spot would be massive and you could probably catch a fair number of folks who would hop on in Clifton Gaslight and ride a bus down the hill to catch light rail instead of taking the bus through OTR - the streetcar obviously would catch those closer.

 

 

Excellent photos... I've always been fascinated with Cincy's abandoned subway, and these are probably the best photos I've ever seen of it.

 

I have always wondered how much work was done on the Cincinnati subway before it was abandoned. From these pictures, I see that work was well advanced. It's sad to think about what could have been.

 

To see what could have been, head to Boston and ride their Red Line. Cincinnati's subway was designed by the same engineer, and built to the same specifications. The older stations in Cambridge especially bear a striking resemblance to the ones in Cincinnati. Here's a few images from this site:

 

Central Square:

 

Park Street:

 

Inside the Bombardier 01800-Series trains that run on the line:

 

As you can see, the tunnels were designed for heavy-rail subway trains with high-level platforms. They could probably be adapted for light rail use depending on how the trains are configured, but streetcars generally require low-level platforms, and the existing platforms would require extensive modifications, which impacts a lot of other things like stairway lengths, etc.

Thanks for the information and link, Living in Cin.

The stations would be rebuilt in any scenario for purposes of creating low platforms and ADA compliance.  Low floor boarding in the subway means station construction and ADA compliance is much simpler for surface stations.  It's predicted that there will be no such thing as high boarding light rail for new-start systems ever again.  It's also predicted that there will be no such thing as new-start heavy rail for any city that does not already have it.

 

Case in point is the Washington Metro, which must be expanded at great expense to heavy rail standards to suburban park & rides and Dulles Airport.  Light rail has the advantage of heavy rail capacity (in the case of Seattle's new light rail line, for example, where they built 400ft. platforms -- not in the case of Portland's MAX light rail, where they are limited to 200ft. trains due to short block lengths).  Washington has to build everything grade separated when light rail grade crossings in suburbs have proven to be successful.     

 

Downtown south of 7th St. has 400ft. blocks but they are shorter north of that point, limiting train lengths.  I'd assume that 200ft. trains could work from downtown to Northside, but larger trains would necessitate extension of the subway south from Central Parkway. 

Jake, I'm sure you get this question all the time, but if you don't mind just one more person asking it:

 

In your opinion what is the likelihood that the subway will ever be used? From the presentation Mr. Luginbill gave and after speaking with him at the tour I kind of got the impression that it's very unlikely, but you're more well versed on the subject than I am. He kind of made it seem like that the cost of removing and building a new water main is the key factor as to why it won't be used, that and the fact that the current stations down there, with the exception of Race St., aren't really "key points." If the streetcar is successful and we see a push for light rail in Cincinnati, do you think using these tunnels is a viable option or would we be more likely to see a new system utilizing the Transit Center?

If the streetcar is successful and we see a push for light rail in Cincinnati, do you think using these tunnels is a viable option or would we be more likely to see a new system utilizing the Transit Center?

.. forget this .. in Cincinnati  all development  is  wrong .. sorry about this ..  I miss the plan  and the direction for the next 50 years ...  and now it is to late ..

 

I have always wondered how much work was done on the Cincinnati subway before it was abandoned. From these pictures, I see that work was well advanced. It's sad to think about what could have been.

Of course there is nothing in the US like the NYC subway system, but I love the subway lines in the smaller cities, such as Pittsburgh and Buffalo, where you would not expect to find trains running underground.

Oh well. Cincinnati is still a great place, even without its subway, and its best days, I'm sure, are yet ahead.

.. no , no no ,  lol ... Cincinnati would be a very great place with a subway  and without parkingplaces und all this awfull garagbuildings ..

Cincinnati is one of the oldest city in the USa , but .. sorry .. the wrong townplan and the wrong municipal architects ...

please stop

Agreed,.!..,it...s...tiring.?.,."

I took a tour in 2005, I'm not a photog, and my editing skills are nil

 

From what I recall, a few of us took a long walk up the approach tunnel to the station we were at. You can see the tracks split.

 

Thanks for sharing Mr. Sparkle!

There are many other photographs on the internet, but most people just used the standard flash on their camera. I used a tripod, long exposures and light painting to try and make these work.

 

And work they do.  Nice shots, man.  Really great photos.

This image is from Forgotten Ohio (www.forgottenohio.com), I think it's also on Jake's site somewhere but you can see the bunting and decorations all put up to get it ready to open:

 

 

It just absolutely sucks the Metro Moves vote failed and it doesn't seem like anyone else is really pushing for light rail legislation currently.

The tunnels were indeed far along, but that bunting shown in the above picture seems a tad premature.  That should be the absolute last thing you worry about.  Look at the conditions...it looks no where near ready for people, much less a grand opening with bunting and all.

We should all take that picture as a warning . . . don't put up the bunting until the train is running.

I'm just speculating here, as the website the photo was from doesn't really state, but the bunting may just have been to celebrate a certain phase of construction being completed. Kind of like when they top off a new building or roller coaster they lift up the final piece with an American flag and a tree. The subway was built in segments with different contracts being awarded to different companies for  each section.

They took the roof off at Liberty to get some gear down there...I took these photos today from a helicopter: