I'll believe this project when the crane is raised.

 

As if you're saying something new.  ::)

 

I dont like to speak for the group, but I would think it is safe to say, that is exactly how how most of us feel.

I'll believe this project when the crane is raised.

 

Instead of....?

 

Most planned projects never happen, regardless of city. But we love to talk about them, nonetheless.

I love the look of this building, just wish the whole thing looked like the first couple floors:

 

 

MTS agrees.  Shocking!

Well, after a little digging here is what I came up with...  Bialosky is no longer involved with the project.  So I wouldn't put too much stock in or waste too much time discussing their renderings.  As someone already mentioned they are just part of their portfolio at this point up on their website as conceptual work.  Further I don't think much has changed since the last time there was any real news posted on here, which essentially is that they have some tennants lined up and are making some progress... I'm sure we will all know when something really newsworthy happens  :)

Well, after a little digging here is what I came up with...  Bialosky is no longer involved with the project.  So I wouldn't put too much stock in or waste too much time discussing their renderings.  As someone already mentioned they are just part of their portfolio at this point up on their website as conceptual work.  Further I don't think much has changed since the last time there was any real news posted on here, which essentially is that they have some tennants lined up and are making some progress... I'm sure we will all know when something really newsworthy happens  :)

...........and Im hoping you, Mr. Mayor, will be the first to tell us.  ;)

Just to chime in, this part of the city will still need parking. I have lived in the WHD for 3 years and I have never known a single person who lives around me without a car. My GF and I share one, which is a good intermediate step. I use mine a LOT less, but while I am not using it, it has to be near my condo waiting for a trip to my favorite store: WAL*MART.

 

Developments like this won't get rid of parking, they'll add it by creating multilevel parking garages.  And since downtown needs density, this is a good thing.

No surface lots...decks, ok.

does anyone know what is going on at west 6 and superior?  there is a small parking garage on the north side that also housed a check cashing store - both have been closed for many weeks now. 

 

is this the first stage to demoing and rebuilding at this corner or is there some kind of structural problem with the parking deck?

No transfers of ownership have been made according to the auditor's site, yet.

^^ For those that are new around here, somewhere buried deep in the Pesht thread there's an interesting discussion on the Check-Cashing building. Believe it or not, that bastardized structure is actually one of the oldest (or _the_ oldest) building standing downtown.

That's one of the ugliest structures downtown, IMO, old or not. It was renovated many years ago and hasn't been touched since and it looks like it. I know nothing of what is going on there, though, or of anything about to happen.

^^ For those that are new around here, somewhere buried deep in the Pesht thread there's an interesting discussion on the Check-Cashing building. Believe it or not, that bastardized structure is actually one of the oldest (or _the_ oldest) building standing downtown.

 

Yes, it dates from the 1830s. When I told Bob Stark about that, he was considering saving some bricks from it for use somehow in his version of the development. But now that he's no longer involved I don't know if Tony Asher has a similar interest in reusing the bricks, such as for pavers or other streetscaping element.

^KJP- have you spoken with Weston about his plans for the project?  It would be great if the bricks could be saved from this structure and used in some type of way. 

Yes the bricks should be used. (At the very least!! , save the bricks!)

I didn't know about this building. I almost wish I didn't...

 

I know this is a pipe dream... but the right (and smart) thing to do would be to save the building and try to incorporate it into the overall redevelopment.

The same should be done with the Cambridge Building, which is now shrouded in a ridiculous 1960s/70s facade a la Schofield Building. At the corner of West 3rd and St. Clair , a renovated Cambridge could really be a terrific entrance to the WD. And as a corner building it could be relatively easy to "fit" into a larger development, almost like a keystone.

 

Unfortunately, neither will probably be done.

Where is the HWD on these matters??? Especially when it comes to the Cambridge.

 

Beam me up Scotty!

While the building with the check cashing store is indeed the oldest building in downtown, and i believe 2nd oldest in the city behind Dunham Tavern... it's been destroyed.  The original facade was completely destroyed at some point.  It be pretty pointless now to incorporate the building with as grotesque of a facade as it has.  The cambridge building is a different story...

^ Thanks for the info.

It'll make it easier for me to accept its eventual demise...

 

I hope the Cambridge does not meet the same fate.

 

It's almost 2010, we're supposed to be less likely to use the wrecking ball in the WD (or the whole city for that matter)... Less happy with the wrecking ball than ~1970 when , for example , this neighbor of the Cambridge Building (NW corner of W. 3rd and St. Clair) came tumbling down.

 

It would be great if we still had this

Wow, what a great building.

 

They should find whoever authorized the demo of this building and "fine" them a hefty sum of money (in addition, make it retroactive to the day the demolition began and top it off with a 10% interest).

 

That is just painful

That's just scratching the surface... someone really should start a thread dedicated to pictures of buildings that once populated the warehouse district....

No thanks. I already did one on all the steel mills that once existed in Youngstown. I will do only one wrist-slitting thread like that every five years or so.

That's just scratching the surface... someone really should start a thread dedicated to pictures of buildings that once populated the warehouse district....

 

That may finally drive me to full-time drinking  :laugh:

bump...  the garage is still closed at the corner.  anybody have info on the plans for the site?

 

does anyone know what is going on at west 6 and superior?  there is a small parking garage on the north side that also housed a check cashing store - both have been closed for many weeks now. 

 

is this the first stage to demoing and rebuilding at this corner or is there some kind of structural problem with the parking deck?

I haven't heard anything, and the property hasn't changed hands. The auditor's database still has it listed under the same owners as it has since 1988.

I believe the owners of that lot are the developers this time around...

But it still has Kersdale Limited Partnership (aka Ed Kowit) as the owner of the check-cashing biz with a taxpayer address of 4626 Northfield Rd, Cleveland, OH 44128. And "Superior West 6th Partnership" is listed as owner of the parking deck. Their taxpayer address is 31000 Aurora Rd, Solon, OH 44139-2769.

 

The rest of the block -- bounded by Superior, West 6th, West 3rd and Frankfort -- is owned by West 3rd & Superior LTD whose taxpayer address is listed under the name: IMG Center BRE-Bellwether RE Capital LLC. But they don't yet own the parking deck/check cashing biz, unless they bought the companies that own them.

I can't believe these prime spaces have remained surface lots for so long....

$$$

Go out to the sunset strip in LA.  You'd think there wouldn't be any surface lots on that prime real estate, but the parking restrictions on surrounding streets (local residents only), no "cruising" laws and the ability to charge a small mortgage payment for a spot on Saturday night, along with minimal maintenance and other costs, gives the land owners absolutely no reason to build over the asphault.  Here in cleveland, the relative success of w. 6th has made those lots nearly 24 hrs of gold.

 

But I do know that weston wants to develop nonetheless and swing for the fences.  Financing is the issue.  So, whatever angle you look at it from, it is all about $$$

I can't believe these prime spaces have remained surface lots for so long....

 

All those surface lots are tied to the core of Cleveland's lack of density...  lots of surface lots generate alot of cash, next to no maintenance...  enables people to drive downtown to work & party...  no need to live downtown when there is easy parking, able to still commute from the suburbs...  no need to take public transit either...

Except this topic isn't about why the parking lots are there. It's about what's being done to build on them. There may be something afoot, but we're still trying to figure who/what/where.

Nothing is happening now because Weston Inc was not able to get financing (their plans stalled in early 2009).  Weston still wants to develop these lots into a mixed use concept, but there is no way to finance such a deal in this current environment.

 

Hopefully the credit market will thaw or there will be some governmental funding to jump start things over the next few years.

 

 

Understood. But what's not understood is why the parking deck and check cashing biz are both shut down. Is this a sign of something happening?

All those surface lots are tied to the core of Cleveland's lack of density... lots of surface lots generate alot of cash, next to no maintenance...   enables people to drive downtown to work & party... no need to live downtown when there is easy parking, able to still commute from the suburbs...   no need to take public transit either...

 

 

I understand all that because we've largely become auto controlled---built lives around needs of cars and not pedestrians. However, even if we are going to have all this parking...Please...No surface lots... decks better with some street level usable business/retail space. But surface lots...  Blahhhh!!! Where is the interest to develop this space? I'm just saying you'd think such spots would be approached more aggressively.

There is a TON of interest in developing these lots... there is currently no money available from lenders for such a project.  If you've got a spare $300m to $1b lying around, please feel free to contact Weston, Inc.  Otherwise just be patient and wait for the credit markets to thaw a little.  They have tennants that want to be here, but there isn't much they can do right now.

Here in cleveland, the relative success of w. 6th has made those lots nearly 24 hrs of gold.

 

So what if a developer that wants to turn a surface lot into a mixed use development tells the parking lot owners: "Look, you let me build on your lot and you will own all the parking spaces in the new parking garage that will be park of this development."

 

Because if a parking lot is successful, that means people need it.  You can't (or shouldn't) just get rid of 300 parking spaces.  But if you get rid of 300 surface lots and build UP with a new development and parking garage, you can ADD spaces.

 

So the parking lot owner would get even MORE spaces (which means more revenue) in a brand new facility and the developer gets his land.

 

Or what am I missing here?

You're probably missing the fact that unless the developer gets the very value land absolutely free the project would not work because, for his numbers to work, he would be depending on revenue from the parking garage he builds as part of the development

Parking garages also cost much, much more to operate and maintain than surface lots.  But I don't think buying the lots is an issue, is it?  I thought Weston/Gilbane/Whatever either owned that land or had an option to buy.

Anyone have any update on this project? Is it confirmed to be on hold or has it been ****canned?

ccars, let me refer you to McCleveland's sage advice:

by the way just as a side note... on a board like urban ohio, there really isn't ever a need to post something like "has anyone heard about anything going with this project?"  I mean... if news breaks on a 500m to 1b project involoving corporate headquarters, apartments, condos, and retail... someone will let us know about it.  ;)

by the way... when I say "someone will let us know about it"... that includes a project being "canned".  that's how threads end up in the abandoned projects section.  believe it or not it's just really, really difficult to make large scale projects happen right now.

Sorry...just trying to get a feel for what's going on...

no problem... just like I said... honestly, if anyone here knows anything that they are allowed to divulge... you'll know it without having to ask.