The 18th century London Coffee House was a refuge from a very socially stratified city.

 

There were rules in the coffee house. If it was your first time there, the rules were explained to you by the bartender. No spitting on walls, no fighting (London was crazy) but most importantly - anyone is allowed to walk up and impede on your conversation or refute what you're saying. That's because it was a place for public discussion and debate. If there were any rank of authority or any moderation, arguments would be inhibited and it would be counter-productive.

 

I thought this was interesting because London was very socially stratified - at least in different ways. You didn't wear clothing out in public that didn't correspond to your socio-economic class. In fact, I think it was illegal. But inside the coffee house, people were equals. They didn't talk about personal issues, they talked about public affairs and the topics discussed rarely indicated who the person was anyway.

 

The coffee house was a breeding ground for intellectual activity. They contained artists, politicians, merchants, business men, journalists, etc.

 

 

The eighteenth century london coffeehouse was not just a place to get some coffee.  Every important event that took place in Britain in the eighteenth century occurred in - or at least was discussed ad infinitum in - a coffeehouse.

Within their walls, scientific experiments were performed, classic pieces of literature were written, conspiracies hatched, companies formed and wars planned...*

 

Those patronizing the coffeehouses of eighteenth century London were merchants and artisans of differing wealth and status in search of a good time, information, business connections, and new mechanical instruments.

 

The patrons came to see the displays of pyrotechnics and water works, and would actively seek lecturers that had dazzling displays and intricate machines.  The merchants enjoyed the opportunity to understand Newtonian physics.  The coffeehouse also let the patrons network with other merchants with the same business interests.  The wealthier patrons of the coffeehouse often searched for practical devices such as the water pump to purchase to use in mines or for irrigational purposes.

 

Thus there were a variety of patrons in the coffeehouses due to its many attractions, but there were also those that disliked the coffeehouse.  The most amusing opponents of the coffeehouses were the wives of the patrons.  In The Women’s Petition Against Coffee they complain that the coffee makes the men impotent and reduces their libido.

 

The coffee house culture declined because they were transformed into more exclusive men's clubs where 'polite' conversation could take place.  I.e. people felt more comfortable being around similar people (reminds me of the formation of the suburbs).

 

I was thinking about how that kind of open communication came back with the internet and message boards like this.

 

My question is: Would it be possible for a coffee house like this to exist today?

 

I'm looking forward to Dmerkow and Riverviewer's thoughts since they are historians.

i've done my london city research over the last few years. the coffeehouses were mostly clustered around covent garden. they're all gone now. the advent of newspapers killed them off.

 

however, what you suggest lives on in private clubs and a few public bars too. at least they are trying to foster a civilized atmosphere like that and encourage conversation, even if it's for members or in the public places in a hipsterized fashion. for example, here are the posted milk&honey/little branch house rules:

 

 

No name-dropping, no star f*cking.

 

No hooting, hollering, shouting or other loud behaviour.

 

No fighting, play fighting, no talking about fighting.

 

Gentlemen will remove their hats. Hooks are provided.

 

Gentlemen will not introduce themselves to ladies.

Ladies, feel free to start a conversation or ask the bartender to introduce you. If a man you don't know speaks to you, please lift your chin slightly and ignore him.

 

Do not linger outside the front door.

 

Do not bring anyone unless you would leave that person alone in your home. You are responsible for the behaviour of your guests.

 

Exit the bar briskly and silently. People are trying to sleep across the street. Please make all your travel plans and say all farewells before leaving the bar.

 

http://www.mlkhny.com/houserules/

i've done my london city research over the last few years. the coffeehouses were mostly clustered around covent garden. they're all gone now. the advent of newspapers killed them off.

 

 

I don't see why newspapers would kill them off. Journalists apparently went there to get and relay information. All else equal, there should still be a market for it. I'd love to go to a place like that. I think it was just part of the decline of public life in general.

 

Fixed prices were another indication. It made people passive consumers, as opposed to wheeling and dealing, interacting with a merchant who set up shop in a public square or on the street or wherever.

Jurgen Habermas probably did more with a bunch of guys sitting around drinking coffee and chatting than anyone else. I actually think the real problem is the democratization of knowledge and literacy. I also think the geography of the city makes a vibrant coffee-house culture unlikely. In the 18th century, the specificity of place was far more important than today and the community of intellectuals was small enough that everyone could maybe know everyone of importance. The internet could mitigate this changes in the way that popular newspaper, radio, and tv didn't, since they were most one way (esp. after the 1870s or so).

I also think the geography of the city makes a vibrant coffee-house culture unlikely. In the 18th century, the specificity of place was far more important than today and the community of intellectuals was small enough that everyone could maybe know everyone of importance.

 

Good point. I don't think people realize how small London and Paris really were. The population at that time period was 600k-900k. Even though they were mega cities, London and Paris were essentially metro Dayton today lol

And they lived in an area probably not much bigger than Dayton proper (that is just a random guess, but the cities were infinitely more compact).

i've done my london city research over the last few years. the coffeehouses were mostly clustered around covent garden. they're all gone now. the advent of newspapers killed them off.

 

however, what you suggest lives on in private clubs and a few public bars too. at least they are trying to foster a civilized atmosphere like that and encourage conversation, even if it's for members or in the public places in a hipsterized fashion. for example, here are the posted milk&honey/little branch house rules:

 

 

No name-dropping, no star f*cking.

 

No hooting, hollering, shouting or other loud behaviour.

 

No fighting, play fighting, no talking about fighting.

 

Gentlemen will remove their hats. Hooks are provided.

 

Gentlemen will not introduce themselves to ladies.

Ladies, feel free to start a conversation or ask the bartender to introduce you. If a man you don't know speaks to you, please lift your chin slightly and ignore him.

 

Do not linger outside the front door.

 

Do not bring anyone unless you would leave that person alone in your home. You are responsible for the behaviour of your guests.

 

Exit the bar briskly and silently. People are trying to sleep across the street. Please make all your travel plans and say all farewells before leaving the bar.

 

http://www.mlkhny.com/houserules/

 

I like it.  Sounds like someplace I would hang out.  And I wish the bars below me would institute the last rule.

i've done my london city research over the last few years. the coffeehouses were mostly clustered around covent garden. they're all gone now. the advent of newspapers killed them off.

 

 

I don't see why newspapers would kill them off. Journalists apparently went there to get and relay information. All else equal, there should still be a market for it. I'd love to go to a place like that. I think it was just part of the decline of public life in general.

 

Fixed prices were another indication. It made people passive consumers, as opposed to wheeling and dealing, interacting with a merchant who set up shop in a public square or on the street or wherever.

 

well it went like this -- i read before newspapers the london coffeehouses rose as a means for people to get together and share information. it just so happened that prosperity and leisure time increased and coffee became popular so it made the first covent garden coffeehouses popular gathering spots. it didnt last long because the advent of newspapers took away a reason to hang out there and of course other fads and distractions came along. i really dk, but as i say that's just what i read in the guidebooks about them. makes some sense i guess.

 

i wish there were more gathering spots like that today too --- that fostered creativity and discussion. it would be tough tho as in public people seem too tied to their laptops, facebook, headphones, etc. -- maybe nowadays it only happens on online communities...like uo?

Stock markets were essentially begun in the same way.