Worth noting that bringing back trolleys is gaining some momentum in other cities.

NEW YORK TIMES

January 15, 2006

Urban Tactics

A Desire Named Streetcar

By JENNIFER BLEYER

 

ARTHUR MELNICK shifted gears on his boxy white Nissan, skirted past Fulton Ferry Landing and described his vision for the future of Brooklyn.

 

"Look at this!" he said, pointing at the nearly desolate ribbon of Furman Street. Traffic on the Brooklyn-Queens Expressway screamed overhead, and the old docks and industrial buildings along the East River showed no hint of the expanded Brooklyn Bridge Park, which is expected to be developed there.

 

.......

 

 

  http://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/15/nyregion/thecity/15trol.html

they did not name them the brooklyn dodgers for nothing, the nickname came from brooklynites having to dodge all the trolleys all the time. melnick has been trying to get this red hook to downtown brooklyn trolley going for a long time now, the mta has been very cool about it, but it looks like consensus is growing. good luck to him.

I like Peabody's idea in the Chinatown pictures thread of having trolleys connect Chinatown and St. Clair-Superior to downtown.  I think that would make a lot of sense if the warehouses in the neighborhood were converted into housing.

 

I think the connection is a great idea, however, I think using trolleys is a bad use of equipment.  Currently the waterfront line should be extended to AT LEAST 55 street but on Hamilton or lakeside running right thru these various neighborhoods.

 

Now, a trolley line on Hough, to me is a better use of the equipment and hits a historical note, since the first trolley line in Cleveland ran on Hough.  This line could be connected to downtown via Payne which is pretty wide.

When I first arrived in Brooklyn in 2002, fresh off the airplane from Portland, Oregon, I got involved with the Brooklyn Historic Railway for a hot minute.  A friend of a friend told me about it and I was so enthusiastic about the possibilities after seeing the Portland Streetcar built and christened the year I was there.  I met with them a couple times, toured their facilities in Red Hook, looked at lots of maps, but nothing ever really materialized. 

 

The warehouse was an amazing place, with old streetcars jammed in and antique, donated equipment in the back that was being used for bending rails and mending old streetcar machinery.  The track that ran down the dock to the garage was all screwed up because some boat had rammed into the pier, making the transportation into or out of the garage impossible, without serious work on the pier being done first.  Also, their stock in the Navy Yard was clearly visible from public roads around its exterior.  In fact, the place first caught my eye one day as I passed and saw an old RTA train, with its shades of rusty orange stripes, sitting amongst the others. 

 

Alas, the operation didn't seem to be "rolling along" as smoothly as it should have been and funding was pulled.  I only hope that the salvage operation sold those historic cars to another collector...

Currently the waterfront line should be extended to AT LEAST 55 street but on Hamilton or lakeside running right thru these various neighborhoods.

 

I like that idea, MTS, but is anyone exploring it?  It does seem like the East Shoreway Boulevard concept has been scrapped and the potential to develop Burke is too muddled to predict right now.  Besides, there's no reason why another branch can't spin off in that direction when the whole thing happens.  Why not try to run the WFL up into St. Clair-Superior? 

 

Is there any way we can use the existing rail right-of-way that moves along this route?  Would tying this into the innerbelt project be a possibility?  ODOT's really got to work a little harder to ameliorate its standing with the locals...this may help!

Currently the waterfront line should be extended to AT LEAST 55 street but on Hamilton or lakeside running right thru these various neighborhoods.

 

I like that idea, MTS, but is anyone exploring it?  It does seem like the East Shoreway Boulevard concept has been scrapped and the potential to develop Burke is too muddled to predict right now.  Besides, there's no reason why another branch can't spin off in that direction when the whole thing happens.  Why not try to run the WFL up into St. Clair-Superior? 

 

Is there any way we can use the existing rail right-of-way that moves along this route?  Would tying this into the innerbelt project be a possibility?  ODOT's really got to work a little harder to ameliorate its standing with the locals...this may help!

 

The reason I say use Hamilton, is its the one street that crosses over the innerbelt, IIRC.

Check out Portland Tri-Met's new website, including its streetcar site....

 

http://trimet.org/index_new.htm

I may not agree with some of you on other topics...but when it comes to public transportation and light rail, you all have some great ideas..ideas that I have thought about myself.  The question is, can you(we) somehow get the general public involved?  get opinions by potential riders?  And most importantly, get these opinions and ideas to RTA in a way that they have to address our concerns and thoughts?  You should all bombard RTA with your plans and ideas, your concerns....keep hammering them with these thoughts, the ideas, and the things other cities are doing...until you MAKE them respond.  Maybe we should all go to their public forum meetings and hammer them there.  Also, it would be nice if you would send these ideas to the ....gulp....PD by either letters to the editor or just as a story that would have public backing.....maybe I am just dreaming, but it would be nice to see these ideas brought more public than just on urbanohio.com.com.  Keep up the great work people!

To bring this to a development-oriented discussion, if an extension of the Waterfront Line east along the lakeshore is pursued, it should not be considered as the end product. That was the failing of the (Phase I) Waterfront Line. The community built the rail line and said "the project is completed." That's wrong. They should have said "The foundation has been poured. The next step is a comprehensive effort to spur high-density, walkable urban neighborhoods along this transportation line, which will sew these neighborhoods together." Only by accident is this now starting to happen along the Waterfront Line (Wolstein's Flats East Bank, Shaia's Front Street Lofts, and possibly Ferchill's and Stark's projects et al).

 

If the city and RTA want to pursue an eastward extension of the Waterfront Line, I would also involve the port authority to acquire land and prepare it for construction. A lot of this land is already in city hands and should be buildable as is -- but it's not on the market nor is it packaged with a future transit investment to brand the package. The rest of the land at key locations has complications (see the area around East 55th, East 72nd/or MLK and possibly at East 105th). All of these locations and others would make terrific station sites but have underutilized structures in their area which complicate development. But imagine the TIF potential of this for funding the rail extension.

 

If I were running "the show" I would do the following:

> Create a joint partnership of the city, RTA, port authority and affected CDCs, calling it something like "Waterfront East Corridor"

> Create a more specific land use plan for the corridor, based on the city's Creating Connections lakefront plan (perhaps done simultaneously with the next item);

> RTA, with community inputs, develops cost/benefit, ridership and environmental impact analyses of rail line extension, possibly done in phases to as far east as Euclid (endpoint less important since it would fall under later phases);

> Based on the land use plan and RTA study, the city enacts zoning changes (such as transit supportive code overlays), creates enterprise zones (with various tax, land-preparation and port-authority financing incentives) and establishes TIF districts -- all of these within a half-mile to 1-mile concentric circle of each station location ID'd in the RTA study;

> Let the game begin!

 

That's my rough draft

Saw this in the PD today.

 

Warehouse sought for trolleys

 

An empty warehouse on the Cleveland docks could be the temporary home to 40 trolley cars. The Cleveland Planning Commission is recommending the city agree to an 18-month lease, with a possible six-month extension, with Lake Shore Electric Railway Inc. The nonprofit group includes the Brookins family, which ran Trolleyville U.S.A. in Olmsted Township. The group must leave that site by summer and would like temporary use of the Dock 32 warehouse, north of the Great Lakes Science Center and the Steamship William G. Mather Museum. The group is raising money to build a trolley barn east of the municipal lot off East Ninth Street, south of the East Shoreway. A group called Flats Industry objects to the plan, saying the warehouse might be needed.

I just spoke this week with a guy who's son's rigging company (the move heavy stuff) will be moving the Trolleyville trolleys.  The irony (he told me) is that when he was a young man, he was among the crew that helped build Trolleyville: laying the rails, setting the poles and stringing the electrical wire.  All of that will now be recycled and (hopefully) re-used.

At last Friday's Planning Commisionmeeting, an agenda itme was passed that will allow the owners of the trolley's to place the trains temporarily in the warehouse at Dock 32 for a period of 18 - 24 months, or until capital is raised that will allow the move of the collection to its permanent location at the end of the Waterfront Line near the Municipal Parking Lot.

Jim Cox opposed the resolution.

Here is the context of the meeting with the entire letter submitted by cox (cross posted from Cleveland vs. The World http://clevelandplanner.blogspot.com/)

 

Ordinance #xxx1-o6

Legislation to be introduced to allow a lease agreement between the city and Lake Shore Electric Railway to store a trolley collection inside the Dock 32 Warehouse for 18 months (introduced on March 20th).

 

They are currently working to raise funds for construction of a new storage and viewing at the end of the Waterfront near the Municipal Parking Lot.

Mark R (from Marous Brothers – I forget his last name): The cars have to be off of the Olmstead Falls property by mid-June or the current owner ill lose the trains to the new owner.

Jim Cox (Flats Industry Association, Executive Director):

Submitted letter to the Commission

Today I am here to advocate for the ‘highest and best use’ for Dock 32 at the Port of Cleveland. Dock 32’s last tenant was FedMar Terminals, which paid $175,000 annually in rent as well as more than $100,000 in dockage and wharfage fees. FedMar handled 100,000 tons of cargo valued at $35 million.

The Port, through its Memorandum of Understanding with the previous administration, surrendered its lease of Dock 32. Returning the dock to the city so that the property would become an integral part of the City’s “Lakefront Plan.’

Using this invaluable dock wharf and warehouse space for the storage of trolleys, even if only or 18 months, is not the ‘highest and best use’ of this maritime infrastructure.

As the …Northeast Ohio Research Consortium’s Jan. 2006 Brief … indicates, the predominant workforce segment of the economy of Cleveland and Northeast Ohio is still manufacturing. To retain and reinforce that industry and the many jobs it generates, Flats Industry believes Dock 32 should be restored to the highest and best use, even if only for 18 months. It should not be another parking lot generating zero revenues fr the city. Flats Industry believes Dock 32 should be restored to the highest and best use, for maritime activity, even for a minimum of 18 months.

Maritime use will guarantee jobs and will guarantee a substantial income to the city’s general fund. Thank you.

 

Bob Brown:

The lease was terminated by the City with an understanding that there would be no problems

 

Mark:

The trolley will remain inside… there should be room on the outside of the warehouse for emergency storage.

There is a plan B that will utilize storage at a warehouse at Mitel Steel – not our first choice… would not be accessible to those who want to see the trains.

 

Jim Cox:

The Steel needs to be inside a warehouse, not outside.

 

Maybe I missed this somewhere else, but has anyone noticed that there are a number of old trolleys sitting below Tower City along some of the auxiliary rail segments?  I was coming home on the Red Line the other night and I was up front and had the benefit of seeing the tracks ahead with headlights from the train...I noticed a set of tracks veering off to the right upon our westbound approach and saw at least a half-dozen old trolley cars in there!  What's the deal???

RTA is storing them there as we all wait for Trolleyville to build them a permanent home.  I remember KJP mentioning this somewhere. 

That is correct, wimwar. Trolleyville had the old streetcars, interurbans and trolleys trucked on flatbeds from Olmsted Township to RTA's Brook Park shops near the airport. They were placed on the RTA's tracks and towed in the middle of the night (so as not to interfere with Red Line trains) by an RTA diesel switcher downtown to Tower City. The moves were done over a number of nights. The historic rail cars are being kept on the tracks in the pre-1990 Shaker Rapid station. RTA is providing police security and storage, but I don't know if it's for a small fee or not.

 

Trolleyville had to be off the Olmsted Township property by last month, according to lease terms with the property owner. Trolleyville had nowhere else to go locally. There was a big risk of losing these historic cars to other museums and collections. RTA deserves a big thanks for agreeing to store them on their tracks and keeping the cars in town while funding for a permanent storage facility is secured.

I see, the other day, that Mayor Jackson is heating up talks w/ the Crawford Museum about, once again, relocating at the old Aviation HS at E. 40th & the Shoreway (an idea I thought was dead).    And why not combine the Crawford with the proposed Trolleyville downtown relocation since, in fact, Crawford wants to expand to encompass a "transportation museum?"  Therefore, wouldn't it make sense to at least extend the RTA Waterfront Line to this point? -- esp since running the antique cars over RTA is apparently a part of the plan...

It would makes sense. Just as it would to have to raise money for one larger museum, rather more money for two separate museums. But I guess these guys never got that whole "economies of scale" part in their econ 101 classes back in the day.

Photos from the collection:

 

<A HREF="http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php?topic=13142.msg191605#msg191605">Trolleyville: Lake Shore Electric Railway</A>

Always good to see yourself in a picture on urbanohio.  :-D

What's the latest on this? 

 

I don't ride the east side rails very often, but I've noticed a bunch of old rail cars inside Tower City.  Are these able to be restored, or will they be trashed eventually?

Those are to be auctioned. It's part of the same collection as noted in this article:

 

http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2009/08/cleveland_trolley_car_collecti.html

This morning I saw what I believe was one of these old trolleys being hauled on a flat bed truck down E 9th. Sad.

Probably sold off, heading to points unknown......

On lunch break - I saw a semi going down w. 25th street with a yellow train car (trolley) on its bed - wonder if this was from the defunct Train Museum

On lunch break - I saw a semi going down w. 25th street with a yellow train car (trolley) on its bed - wonder if this was from the defunct Train Museum

 

Was it a yellow shaker rapid?

See also the pictures of the old streetcar at:

http://media.cleveland.com/metro/photo/euclid-avenue-streetcar-exteriorjpg-a90e482488277c66_large.jpg

 

http://media.cleveland.com/metro/photo/euclid-avenue-streetcar-interiorjpg-18ef7b89fc6561af_small.jpg

 

University Circle will display restored 1914 streetcar the operated on Euclid Avenue

By Karen Farkas, The Plain Dealer

December 27, 2009, 8:50PM

 

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- A 95-year-old streetcar that once traveled along Euclid Avenue to the turnaround at East 107th Street -- giving University Circle its name -- is coming home.

 

Car No. 1218 will be restored by the Greater Cleveland Regional Transit Authority, then displayed at that turnaround in front of the Cleveland Children's Museum, said Chris Ronayne, president of University Circle Inc., and Mark Ricchiuto, spokesman for Lake Shore Electric Railway Inc.

 

Preserving an important part of Cleveland's history provides some solace to the nonprofit rail group, which had dreams of establishing a trolley rail loop into the Flats and a museum near the lakefront, Ricchiuto said. Those plans were dashed when the recession affected fund raising, the Flats East Bank commercial and retail development project stalled and debts mounted.

 

READ MORE AT:

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2009/12/university_circle_will_display.html

 

 

ALSO NOTE THERE IS A SECOND ARTICLE AT THE SAME LINK ABOVE, BEGINNING WITH:

 

Northern Ohio Railway Museum in Chippewa Lake gets working trolleys at auction

 

CHIPPEWA LAKE, Ohio -- The Northern Ohio Railway Museum had lots of trolleys but none that could be operated.

 

Now it has several, including a 1924 streetcar that brought Santa Claus to Shaker Square and a 1970 Pullman car that took travelers to Cleveland Hopkins International Airport.

 

The southern Medina County museum acquired five cars in October from the Lake Shore Electric Railway Inc. auction and traded for one other rare Cleveland car with a museum in Maine.

Well, at least many will remain in the state....  Not what I feared happening when I first learned of this auction.

It's a shame they were unable to find a location for these in Cleveland.  I thought the Powerhouse would have been a good place for a trolley museum.  We got an aquarium instead. I did get a chance to see them and ride on one at the old Trolleyville USA in Olmsted Township many years ago.

Another location for a trolley museum might have been the lower level of the Detroit Superior bridge, depending on its condition.

Does anyone know if trolleys ever ran over the hope memorial bridge or if it's designed to take that kind of load? I'm doing some crayonista stuff and am trying to be a bit realistic with it.  

1 hour ago, Henryefry said:

Does anyone know if trolleys ever ran over the hope memorial bridge or if it's designed to take that kind of load? I'm doing some crayonista stuff and am trying to be a bit realistic with it.  

The bridge superstructure was designed to handle streetcars on the lower level with two track right-of-ways; however, the lower level was never constructed and therefore never carried streetcars.  If you look at the underside of the bridge from the Lake Link bike trail you can see where it was designed to allow streetcars to pass through the support structure.  It would be much more expensive to add a lower level streetcar to the Lorain bridge than it would be to run them on the lower level of the Detroit Superior bridge. 

14 hours ago, Boomerang_Brian said:

The bridge superstructure was designed to handle streetcars on the lower level with two track right-of-ways; however, the lower level was never constructed and therefore never carried streetcars.  If you look at the underside of the bridge from the Lake Link bike trail you can see where it was designed to allow streetcars to pass through the support structure.  It would be much more expensive to add a lower level streetcar to the Lorain bridge than it would be to run them on the lower level of the Detroit Superior bridge. 

Thanks, this is pretty much entirely just a what if map, so cost isn't my primary concern.