Well I met one who did defend a person involved in the case and what I mean is that it's a shame when excuses are made for people directly involved in the shooting of a 4 year old.

 

As for the rest of us, and the community, I mean the social mores of the hood, snitches get stitches etc. Some of these things are tolerated in the hood and that needs to change if change is to occur.  I've seen enough of this sort of behavior to become somewhat callous to the entire situation.  YMMV.

 

 

 

"The hood"?  Where you live is not indicative of who you are as a person/individual or family?  I have several relatives that live in what some people would refer to as "the hood" and they are are college educated people that are in very nice positions.

Yeah, I get it. 

 

I'm gonna wander off because we are not going to connect on this.

 

I related a story about people I work with.  I work with inner city people on a daily basis.  We can do semantics all day long but thats not getting us anywhere. 

 

I have no idea how to fix this situation but I get sick when I see people tacitly condoning accessories to attempted murder because of <insert  reason here that I dare not attempt to describe>.

 

 

^ Like two ships passing in the night.

^that's okay, I understand. MTS is more fair and balanced.

 

I have no idea what point you're trying to make about relatively tiny and marginally diverse Painesville, however I will make this observation: When I look at a map at the borders between Painesville City Schools and Riverside Local Schools, it seems unlikely to be a coincidence that they look like a jigsaw puzzle.

 

I'll also say this, Painesville is isolated enough in distance from any other pockets of diversity in Greater Cleveland that I don't find it surprising that you haven't really seen these "flash mob" problems there that have occurred in the eastern suburbs of Cleveland.  And beyond that, I'd be skeptical about the fact that there haven't been other issues in Painesville similar to what MTS and Hts were speaking about earlier in SH and CH.

^that's okay, I understand. MTS is more fair and balanced.

 

I have no idea what point you're trying to make about relatively tiny and marginally diverse Painesville, however I will make this observation: When I look at a map at the borders between Painesville City Schools and Riverside Local Schools, it seems unlikely to be a coincidence that they look like a jigsaw puzzle.

 

I'll also say this, Painesville is isolated enough in distance from any other pockets of diversity in Greater Cleveland that I don't find it surprising that you haven't really seen these "flash mob" problems there that have occurred in the eastern suburbs of Cleveland.  And beyond that, I'd be skeptical about the fact that there haven't been other issues in Painesville similar to what MTS and Hts were speaking about earlier in SH and CH.

I'm not sure what you mean by "marginally diverse"(?) Painesville is probably more diverse than many larger cities in Ohio, and certainly more so than any city or town in similar size (20K) in the state. With its sizable Hispanic population (and I used "Hispanic" because that's what Mexicans preferred to be called) it's certainly more of a microcosm of the overall population of the United States than it is of the population of Ohio. And yes, the fact that it's a small town and far away enough from Cleveland, it's escaped many of the racial problems that exist there and in its surrounding suburbs; which doesn't mean there aren't any. Like any community with a diverse population, there are conflicts. However, Painesville has had a history of diversity going back many decades before any Cleveland suburb. My point is that the affluent residents of places like SH and CH (originally of course 100% white) take a very patronizing, holier-than-thou attitude toward diversity (wow, look how "progressive" we are!), like they invented the concept, when it's been happening outside their gilded ghettos for a long time.

Gilded ghettos?  Wow.  Just wow.

 

FWIW, residents of SH and CH don't talk nearly as much about their diversity as do the people who hate SH and CH for their diversity.  We actually don't think about it that much, which seems to perturb a certain segment of the population for whatever reason.  Yes, those cities are extremely diverse, not just racially, but ethnically, economically, religiously, etc.  Even politically to a lesser degree.  The haters constantly commenting on the racial diversity accuse us of turning a blind eye to 'what is happening' and they are right to the point that many people in the Heights do make a conscious effort to turn a blind eye to color and refuse to indict an entire 'racial community' for the actions of a few.  Why that bothers people who don't live in the communities so much is troubling to say the least.

Haha "gilded ghettos"

Haha "gilded ghettos"

 

okay, if Shaker Heights has lost its cachet, so be it. (don't tell mts)

Haha "gilded ghettos"

 

okay, if Shaker Heights has lost its cachet, so be it. (don't tell mts)

 

It hasn't darling!

Gilded ghettos?  Wow.  Just wow.

 

FWIW, residents of SH and CH don't talk nearly as much about their diversity as do the people who hate SH and CH for their diversity.  We actually don't think about it that much, which seems to perturb a certain segment of the population for whatever reason.  Yes, those cities are extremely diverse, not just racially, but ethnically, economically, religiously, etc.  Even politically to a lesser degree.  The haters constantly commenting on the racial diversity accuse us of turning a blind eye to 'what is happening' and they are right to the point that many people in the Heights do make a conscious effort to turn a blind eye to color and refuse to indict an entire 'racial community' for the actions of a few.  Why that bothers people who don't live in the communities so much is troubling to say the least.

 

Wow, you must live in an utopia!  Sounds like everyone loves everybody else, there is no hate or bigotry and all criminals must come from Painesville!

Haha "gilded ghettos"

 

okay, if Shaker Heights has lost its cachet, so be it. (don't tell mts)

 

It hasn't darling!

I'm relieved to hear that

Gilded ghettos?  Wow.  Just wow.

 

FWIW, residents of SH and CH don't talk nearly as much about their diversity as do the people who hate SH and CH for their diversity.  We actually don't think about it that much, which seems to perturb a certain segment of the population for whatever reason.  Yes, those cities are extremely diverse, not just racially, but ethnically, economically, religiously, etc.  Even politically to a lesser degree.  The haters constantly commenting on the racial diversity accuse us of turning a blind eye to 'what is happening' and they are right to the point that many people in the Heights do make a conscious effort to turn a blind eye to color and refuse to indict an entire 'racial community' for the actions of a few.  Why that bothers people who don't live in the communities so much is troubling to say the least.

 

Wow, you must live in an utopia!  Sounds like everyone loves everybody else, there is no hate or bigotry and all criminals must come from Painesville!

actually a lot of them do :wink:

Not really related to this current discussion, but I feel like for some reason every time Cleveland Heights has a crime committed Shaker Heights is somehow dragged into the discussion of Cleveland Heights going downhill. Anyone who spends anytime in the Heights clearly knows Cleveland Heights is still a great place and their popular commercial districts and surrounding residential areas are still doing great. But I do notice that when another crime story is written on Cleveland.com, commenters, even on UO, somehow drag Shaker Heights into it.

Wow, you must live in an utopia!  Sounds like everyone loves everybody else, there is no hate or bigotry and all criminals must come from Painesville!

 

Try reading again, chief.  I said nothing about Painesville.  Absolutely nothing.  Even though I do have some personal opinions based on experiences there.  But as far as a utopia, far from it.  I said 'many people' make conscious efforts to live color blind.  I stand by that statement.  "Many" does not equate to all..... it doesn't even necessarily imply half.  There are over 75,000 people that live in these two communities.  Please be considerate enough to take the time to understand a post before responding to it.

 

BTW, it is "a utopia" not "an utopia."  Don't focus on the vowel.  Focus on the sound.  Utopia is pronounced with a "y" sound at the start

^that's okay, I understand. MTS is more fair and balanced.

 

I have no idea what point you're trying to make about relatively tiny and marginally diverse Painesville, however I will make this observation: When I look at a map at the borders between Painesville City Schools and Riverside Local Schools, it seems unlikely to be a coincidence that they look like a jigsaw puzzle.

 

I'll also say this, Painesville is isolated enough in distance from any other pockets of diversity in Greater Cleveland that I don't find it surprising that you haven't really seen these "flash mob" problems there that have occurred in the eastern suburbs of Cleveland.  And beyond that, I'd be skeptical about the fact that there haven't been other issues in Painesville similar to what MTS and Hts were speaking about earlier in SH and CH.

I'm not sure what you mean by "marginally diverse"(?) Painesville is probably more diverse than many larger cities in Ohio, and certainly more so than any city or town in similar size (20K) in the state. With its sizable Hispanic population (and I used "Hispanic" because that's what Mexicans preferred to be called) it's certainly more of a microcosm of the overall population of the United States than it is of the population of Ohio. And yes, the fact that it's a small town and far away enough from Cleveland, it's escaped many of the racial problems that exist there and in its surrounding suburbs; which doesn't mean there aren't any. Like any community with a diverse population, there are conflicts. However, Painesville has had a history of diversity going back many decades before any Cleveland suburb. My point is that the affluent residents of places like SH and CH (originally of course 100% white) take a very patronizing, holier-than-thou attitude toward diversity (wow, look how "progressive" we are!), like they invented the concept, when it's been happening outside their gilded ghettos for a long time.

 

I've read a ton on Cleveland area history (admittedly mostly limited to Cuyahoga County, though) and I don't think it's a stretch to say that there isn't another suburb or neighborhood in this county that at any point in the past century did as much to try to peacefully integrate as Cleveland Heights or Shaker Heights.  I've never claimed to know how Painesville became integrated, but I can tell you that CH and SH are unique amongst SIMILAR suburbs in Cuyahoga County and they've both garnered statewide and national attention over the years for their integration efforts.  So to some degree, yes, residents in these suburbs do have some things of which to be proud.

Lighten up Francis. It was just a joke at both yours and EVD's expense.  At least he can recognize it as such.  Then after chastising me, you poke fun at him!

 

Oh, by the way, I'm not a chief.

Not really related to this current discussion, but I feel like for some reason every time Cleveland Heights has a crime committed Shaker Heights is somehow dragged into the discussion of Cleveland Heights going downhill. Anyone who spends anytime in the Heights clearly knows Cleveland Heights is still a great place and their popular commercial districts and surrounding residential areas are still doing great. But I do notice that when another crime story is written on Cleveland.com, commenters, even on UO, somehow drag Shaker Heights into it.

In my mind, CH and SH are like Siamese twins, you can't discuss one without discussing the other. 

 

They are both great cities, with solid schools, great amenities, very good city services and amazing historical housing stock any city would die to have.

Lighten up Francis. It was just a joke at both yours and EVD's expense.  At least he can recognize it as such.  Then after chastising me, you poke fun at him!

 

Oh, by the way, I'm not a chief.

 

I'd rather be called chief than Francis.  At least I wouldn't hesitate to call you chief to your face...... a good test when thinking of saying something behind a keyboard.

Its a quote from a popular movie.  You need to get out more.

 

The word chief is also considered derogatory in some circles.  I'm surprised you would use a racial slur.  Francis is just a common name.

The word chief is also considered derogatory in some circles.

 

What circles?

Its a quote from a popular movie. 

 

Stripes came out in 1981, it might be before his time.  :evil:

As entertaining as this is, Francis and Chief should take this to a PM!

I know the line.  Fail to see how "getting out more" equates to TV...... that's not the way it works in my utopia.  Carry on...

 

Its a quote from a popular movie. 

 

Stripes came out in 1981, it might be before his time.  :evil:

 

Shirley, you can't be serious

I wanted to post this in the suburban thread but was unable to for some reason. I received this flyer yesterday. I'm only posting it here because it's time sensitive and wanted to give people a heads up in case someone felt like attending. Unfortunately I'm unable to make it next week.

 

 

Patrick Cooley ‏@NEOhioCrimeNews  32m

http://www.cleveland.com/fairview-park/index.ssf/2014/08/realtor_interrupts_burglars_pi.html … A realtor interrupted two would-be burglars in Fairview Park @clevelanddotcom @FairviewParkOH

In Lakewood Park?!

 

Suspected armed robber steals hats in Lakewood

http://www.cleveland.com/lakewood/index.ssf/2014/08/suspected_armed_robber_steals.html#incart_river

 

Lakewood cops seem to be pretty good.  Based on anecdotes I've heard, they have been able to catch people pretty quickly.

That wasn't in the park. It was down on Clifton by Summit. Weird.He must of really liked the hats.

 

LWPD tells you to not chase a criminal away, but to call first because there average response is under 2:00.

 

 

Bay Village teens accused of dumping urine, feces on special-needs classmate

 

http://www.cleveland.com/bay-village/index.ssf/2014/09/bay_village_teens_accused_of_d.html#incart_river

^thugs

Considering they tricked him instead of strong arming him, I'd say they're FBLA.

^What a bunch of sicko, losers... Throw their sorry asses in juvy.

Those criminals really need to be doxxed

Did they just want to use "rash" and "groin" in the same headline?

 

http://www.cleveland.com/maple-heights/index.ssf/2014/09/one_shot_in_maple_heights_robb.html

Cleveland Heights posts crime stats on city website

CLEVELAND HEIGHTS, Ohio – The Cleveland Heights Police Department now posts crime stats online.

 

The number of murders, robberies, assaults and other crimes dating back to 2011 went live Monday. There is no cost to the city to publish the information, also known as the FBI's Uniform Crime Reports.

 

"People are reading the newspaper and hearing this and hearing that and I want them to know exactly what's going on in the city," Chief Jeffrey Robertson said. "I want them to be able to ask questions and I want to be able to tell them what's going on –- good and bad."

 

http://www.cleveland.com/cleveland-heights/index.ssf/2014/09/cleveland_heights_posts_crime.html

 

 

Link to statistics here: http://www.clevelandheights.com/index.aspx?page=1683

It's football season, so theirs an uptick in yellow collar crime out in the burbs:

 

WILLOUGHBY, Ohio – A man was arrested after police said he urinated on patrons at the Willoughby Brewing Company early Sunday.

 

http://www.cleveland.com/willoughby/index.ssf/2014/09/man_urinates_on_customers_at_w.html#incart_river

 

I am glad I live in the city away from the scourge that is the Uri-Nation. :wave:

 

 

It's football season, so theirs an uptick in yellow collar crime out in the burbs:

 

WILLOUGHBY, Ohio – A man was arrested after police said he urinated on patrons at the Willoughby Brewing Company early Sunday.

 

http://www.cleveland.com/willoughby/index.ssf/2014/09/man_urinates_on_customers_at_w.html#incart_river

 

I am glad I live in the city away from the scourge that is the Uri-Nation. :wave:

 

 

 

I was shocked that they transported him to jail instead of the hospital.  Pretty mellow place I guess....

Raise your hand if you're surprised. Anyone? Anyone?

 

The Katz Club Diner Arson: The Big Story

http://www.cleveland.com/cleveland-heights/index.ssf/2014/10/the_katz_club_diner_arson_the.html

Raise your hand if you're surprised. Anyone? Anyone?

 

The Katz Club Diner Arson: The Big Story

http://www.cleveland.com/cleveland-heights/index.ssf/2014/10/the_katz_club_diner_arson_the.html

 

Please take your commentary to cleveland.com. 

Raise your hand if you're surprised. Anyone? Anyone?

 

The Katz Club Diner Arson: The Big Story

http://www.cleveland.com/cleveland-heights/index.ssf/2014/10/the_katz_club_diner_arson_the.html

 

Why do you imply this was to be expected? (honest question)

^hate to say it but he's right. I don't think he implied that the FIRE was to be expected, but once the fire occurred, the fact that it was arson didn't surprise me at all. There's alot of trouble taking place in Cleveland heights right now, I would have been surprised if it WASNT arson.

Interesting that the info provided by the police department shows crime actually decreasing over the last three years, but there's been an increase in the amount of coverage of crime in Cleveland Heights by Cleveland.com.  This can lead to shifting perceptions of the city, which can lead to people not wanting to invest in the city, leading to a whole other set of negative factors.  IMO of course.   

Raise your hand if you're surprised. Anyone? Anyone?

 

The Katz Club Diner Arson: The Big Story

http://www.cleveland.com/cleveland-heights/index.ssf/2014/10/the_katz_club_diner_arson_the.html

 

Why do you imply this was to be expected? (honest question)

 

Coming from KJP, I read it as the coverage from Cleveland.com was to be expected, not the crime itself.    The fact there there are so many questions here makes it clear, that this was not clear!

Ah I see.  I thought there may have been a specific backstory regarding Katz's that would have explained this.

Raise your hand if you're surprised. Anyone? Anyone?

 

The Katz Club Diner Arson: The Big Story

http://www.cleveland.com/cleveland-heights/index.ssf/2014/10/the_katz_club_diner_arson_the.html

 

Why do you imply this was to be expected? (honest question)

 

Coming from KJP, I read it as the coverage from Cleveland.com was to be expected, not the crime itself.    The fact there there are so many questions here makes it clear, that this was not clear!

 

I don't care who it's coming from.  This is a message board, sarcasm doesn't come across in text unless indicated.  As far as I can tell he is 100% serious and should take his commentary to cleveland.com with all the other losers.

 

Interesting that the info provided by the police department shows crime actually decreasing over the last three years, but there's been an increase in the amount of coverage of crime in Cleveland Heights by Cleveland.com.  This can lead to shifting perceptions of the city, which can lead to people not wanting to invest in the city, leading to a whole other set of negative factors.  IMO of course.   

 

Bingo.  This witch hunt by cleveland.com can do serious damage to the city and as someone who is actively involved in making CH a better place, it infuriates me.

Interesting that the info provided by the police department shows crime actually decreasing over the last three years, but there's been an increase in the amount of coverage of crime in Cleveland Heights by Cleveland.com.  This can lead to shifting perceptions of the city, which can lead to people not wanting to invest in the city, leading to a whole other set of negative factors.  IMO of course.   

 

The Cleveland Heights police department has a history of misreporting and downplaying crime that occurs in the city.  I'd take their statistics with as big a grain of salt as any other source.  That said, I really doubt CH has that much more crime than other comparable east side suburbs. 

 

I'm inclined to agree with others on here who have pointed to both the "click bait" nature of those stories and cle.com's increased scrutiny of crime in Cleveland Heights owing to the aforementioned problems with their police reporting.

You guys have all misread me. When I hear of a fire at a restaurant, any restaurant, I automatically think arson. Why? Restaurants usually don't succeed financially and that failure comes pretty quick. Some restaurateurs have put their live savings into their dream and when it goes bad, as most restaurants do, they panic. Obviously most don't turn to arson, but I'm not surprised when they do.

 

But this arson was either amateur hour (among all the accelerants present everyday in a restaurant, you use one that doesn't belong there??) or the accelerant was chosen because it would so obviously be an arson that it was intended to send a message to the owner (ie: "screw you for firing me" or "you screwed my wife and now I'm going to screw you" or "this is what you get when you don't pay your gambling debts" etc).

^hate to say it but he's right. I don't think he implied that the FIRE was to be expected, but once the fire occurred, the fact that it was arson didn't surprise me at all. There's alot of trouble taking place in Cleveland heights right now, I would have been surprised if it WASNT arson.

 

There is a lot of trouble being REPORTED in CH right now.  As we have repeated numerous times on here, there is a reason for that and there is some legitimate debate on whether the higher ups in the police department deserve the resulting flack they are getting (and they are getting a lot of flack for it).  But, regardless, even if you buy into the click-bait fluff/narrative NEOMG is putting out, arson is not your typical street crime.  It is either the result of the type of criminal mischief you could easily find in any corner of the country or it is what KJP alluded to.

^ This. I think every diner in NJ has burned down at least twice.  Good heavens just google "New Jersey" "diner" "fire" and you'll be amazed.

^Restaurants also have open flames, tons of electrical appliances, and many employees of varying skill levels.  The vast majority of restaurant fires are not arson (https://www.usfa.fema.gov/downloads/pdf/statistics/v12i1.pdf).

Raise your hand if you're surprised. Anyone? Anyone?

 

The Katz Club Diner Arson: The Big Story

http://www.cleveland.com/cleveland-heights/index.ssf/2014/10/the_katz_club_diner_arson_the.html

Raise your hand if you're surprised. Anyone? Anyone?

 

The Katz Club Diner Arson: The Big Story

http://www.cleveland.com/cleveland-heights/index.ssf/2014/10/the_katz_club_diner_arson_the.html

 

Why do you imply this was to be expected? (honest question)

 

Coming from KJP, I read it as the coverage from Cleveland.com was to be expected, not the crime itself.    The fact there there are so many questions here makes it clear, that this was not clear!

 

My first thought, coming from KJP, is that there's some serious back story here.