This seemed strange from the get-go, and is why newspapers have no business engaging in "19 Action News"-style jump-to-conclusions reporting.

So.... do inner ring liberals actually LIKE being held up at gunpoint in diner parking lots? Or jumped and beaten coming home from the library...? Or robbed of their iPhone or computer on the way home from school, in broad daylight?  And when they do - how do they describe the culprits --- as old, white ladies? Well, that's the way it sounds - since suburban conservatives are being called out as alarmist, scared, racist whiners who are making something of nothing...

 

There are valid concerns and criticisms to be made.  Then there are comments like these (right on cue) that are a bit ridiculous:

 

Sounds like CH is turning into East Cleveland...

^^^That must be devastating 'news' to that Ferrise guy

 

Back in the days when places like Parma, northern(?) Euclid and west Maple Heights (yes, Maple Heights) were aggressively all white, there was probably a perception among some that the relative success of Shaker Heights and Cleveland Heights in absorbing a middle class black population was held up as somewhat idealistic refutation of the concern that integration would bring in the kinds of problems that, well....it more or less led to. 

 

I know many people hold this view, but I disagree.  There definitely are more problems in Cleveland Heights and Shaker Heights than "back in the good old days," but I don't see why people think historical integration had anything to do with it.  There has been an "outflux" of crime from the city everywhere for quite a while now.  Obviously, cities like Maple Heights, Garfield Heights, Euclid, Bedford, Parma, East Cleveland, etc. have seen the effects of it, and it's not like they were known for historical integration.  I would say that if anything, CH's and SH's willingness to integrate staved off problems for longer, as the increased demand from people with jobs and money (both black and white) kept the neighborhoods stable much longer than the suburbs where the white people fled at first sight of a black person, causing property values to instantly fall and neighborhoods to decay.  Unfortunately, sprawling development has made increased blight almost inevitable in all inner ring and inner city areas.  Some have just fought it off better than others, and I'd put CH and SH in the "fighting it off fairly well" category.

 

Where's MTS with his "ding, ding, ding, ding... we have a winner folks!"

Obviously, cities like Maple Heights, Garfield Heights, Euclid, Bedford, Parma, East Cleveland, etc. have seen the effects of it, and it's not like they were known for historical integration.  I would say that if anything, CH's and SH's willingness to integrate staved off problems for longer, as the increased demand from people with jobs and money (both black and white) kept the neighborhoods stable much longer than the suburbs where the white people fled at first sight of a black person, causing property values to instantly fall and neighborhoods to decay.  Unfortunately, sprawling development has made increased blight almost inevitable in all inner ring and inner city areas.  Some have just fought it off better than others, and I'd put CH and SH in the "fighting it off fairly well" category.

 

I think a city's willingness to accept or encourage integration is only loosely connected to the level blight it faces today.  I think a bigger factor is more straight-forward: Cleveland Heights and Shaker Heights remain relatively stable as compared to the other suburbs in question because CH and SH were built for the wealthy (and have the existing attractive housing stock as a result) and are in close proximity to some of the region's biggest assets (particularly in University Circle).  The inherent advantages that have shielded CH and SH from blight in the past few decades will likely do so for the foreseeable future, though I do expect both to continue to deteriorate around the "edges" if current trends continue. 

CH and SH were built for the wealthy (and have the existing attractive housing stock as a result) and are in close proximity to some of the region's biggest assets (particularly in University Circle).

 

I agree with the rest of your post,  but I would say that this part also historically applied to  East Cleveland,  which clearly suffered a much different fate than the  Heights  communities

^Different circumstances.  EC was 'historically' rich in the sense that it includes a stretch of Euclid and particularly JDR's contribution to Millionaire's Row..... specifically, a 250 acre estate (more than 1/10 of the entire city if my math is correct).  Millionaire's Row disappeared (for whatever reason) well before EC went down the toilet.  The vast majority of EC was not built for the wealthy.  It doesn't have the sizeable chunks of real estate you will find in CH and SH which would set a new modern day nationwide precedent if it ever spiraled into a ghetto.

CH and SH were built for the wealthy (and have the existing attractive housing stock as a result) and are in close proximity to some of the region's biggest assets (particularly in University Circle).

 

I agree with the rest of your post,  but I would say that this part also historically applied to  East Cleveland,  which clearly suffered a much different fate than the  Heights  communities

 

You know, it's funny, as I've been developing this "hypothesis," East Cleveland is indeed the one outlier that I cannot entirely explain.  My suspicion is that while East Cleveland had several incredibly wealthy "big name" residents call the suburb home in the late 1800s/early 1900s, it seems to never have had the widespread, vast swaths of upscale wealth and associated residences that ended up being built in CH and SH later on in the early 1900s.  EC did have its stretch of "Millionaire's Row," but because little evidence of these structures survive to this day, my reading on this topic leads me to believe that this was a very isolated and limited stretch of housing that was developed and then demolished during a time that the Heights 'burbs were peaking.

If you look at the streets in East Cleveland, the houses are typical of what you would see in a lot of Cleveland neighborhoods.

 

The wealthier portions of Cleveland Heights and Shaker Heights are completely different.

 

I cant even imagine Fairmount or Shaker Blvd and surrounding streets as a "ghetto". Like Hts121 said, that would definilty be something new for the nation and a true sign that something is very wrong with society! These places are far to beautiful and grand to abandoned. You cant duplicate them elsewhere. You cant even duplicate the trees!

 

 

Obviously, cities like Maple Heights, Garfield Heights, Euclid, Bedford, Parma, East Cleveland, etc. have seen the effects of it, and it's not like they were known for historical integration.  I would say that if anything, CH's and SH's willingness to integrate staved off problems for longer, as the increased demand from people with jobs and money (both black and white) kept the neighborhoods stable much longer than the suburbs where the white people fled at first sight of a black person, causing property values to instantly fall and neighborhoods to decay.  Unfortunately, sprawling development has made increased blight almost inevitable in all inner ring and inner city areas.  Some have just fought it off better than others, and I'd put CH and SH in the "fighting it off fairly well" category.

 

I think a city's willingness to accept or encourage integration is only loosely connected to the level blight it faces today.  I think a bigger factor is more straight-forward: Cleveland Heights and Shaker Heights remain relatively stable as compared to the other suburbs in question because CH and SH were built for the wealthy (and have the existing attractive housing stock as a result) and are in close proximity to some of the region's biggest assets (particularly in University Circle).  The inherent advantages that have shielded CH and SH from blight in the past few decades will likely do so for the foreseeable future, though I do expect both to continue to deteriorate around the "edges" if current trends continue. 

 

Your right on the money here.  I think many people here forget the role the housing stock plays.  This is why with the shifting poverty in the county (and overabundance of housing) you can basically draw a map of the next areas to go down hill based on property values alone (connected to the types of housing in those communities).  Certainly we choose the area of the east side that we thought would hold on the longest, but I must say, beyond that it seems almost hopeless as far as a sense of sustainability.   

The differences in the housing stock matter a ton.  In 1960, when East Cleveland was still all white, its rents and housing values were only slightly higher than across the border in the City of Cleveland. That's not at all the case for much of Cleveland Heights and SH, then or now.  For those interested in these issues, I highly recommend Dennis Keating's "The Suburban Racial Dilemma," a great 1994 scholarly book discussing the history of east side racial change and efforts to promote sustainable integration.

 

Also, some of the dimwitted Cleveland.com commentariat seems to have a very strange notion that it's city policy in Cleveland Hts (and maybe SH) to specifically attract black residents, and that this ongoing "diversity policy" is backfiring (to paraphrase, "serves your right dumb liberals!"). This is total mythology. The pro-integrative efforts in the Heights were primarily aimed at attracting and retaining white resident to transitioning neighborhoods in an effort to prevent re-segregation of these areas.

Considering that we are now apparently posting on each and every crime the PD features, it's odd that there hasn't been any mention on here today of the Bratenahl road rage incident in which the South Euclid woman was beaten by the other driver and then run over by his truck.  She is currently in critical condition.  The suspect is still on the loose.

 

I was at least expecting to hear some gripes about the PD describing the suspect as a brown-haired, medium build man..... with no mention of his race.  http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2013/12/man_beats_runs_over_woman_in_b.html#incart_river_default#incart_m-rpt-2

 

Some other media sources reported that it was a white man.... so, contrary to the suggestions otherwise, the PD does not discriminate in its much-debated policy.  Another point of interest is that the police are actually now saying that there are some mixed reports on the man's 'description.'  Not sure if that means there is some discrepency about his race, but that would not surprise me...... and such common confusion is indeed exactly one of the reasons why journalists are hesitant to report the race of a suspect.  I think if it was up to me, I might be inclined to allow reporting of skin tone (fair-skinned, dark-skinned, etc.), but not to guess about race/ethnicity.

Oh yeah.... one nuggett from the rumor mill I heard over the weekend.  All of this is just scuttlebutt, of course, so take it FWIW.  Remember those incidents of the ipads getting stolen from students in CH.  Some believe that the students were filing false police reports after illicitly selling the ipads themselves.  One kid got away with it and it spiraled from there.  It's sh!te like this (if true) that really pisses me off because it gives such a blatantly false perception.

Considering that we are now apparently posting on each and every crime the PD features, it's odd that there hasn't been any mention on here today of the Bratenahl road rage incident in which the South Euclid woman was beaten by the other driver and then run over by his truck.  She is currently in critical condition.  The suspect is still on the loose.

 

I was at least expecting to hear some gripes about the PD describing the suspect as a brown-haired, medium build man..... with no mention of his race.  http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2013/12/man_beats_runs_over_woman_in_b.html#incart_river_default#incart_m-rpt-2

 

Some other media sources reported that it was a white man.... so, contrary to the suggestions otherwise, the PD does not discriminate in its much-debated policy.  Another point of interest is that the police are actually now saying that there are some mixed reports on the man's 'description.'  Not sure if that means there is some discrepency about his race, but that would not surprise me...... and such common confusion is indeed exactly one of the reasons why journalists are hesitant to report the race of a suspect.  I think if it was up to me, I might be inclined to allow reporting of skin tone (fair-skinned, dark-skinned, etc.), but not to guess about race/ethnicity.

 

There's also the shooting in North Ridgeville...

Oh yeah.... one nuggett from the rumor mill I heard over the weekend.  All of this is just scuttlebutt, of course, so take it FWIW.  Remember those incidents of the ipads getting stolen from students in CH.  Some believe that the students were filing false police reports after illicitly selling the ipads themselves.  One kid got away with it and it spiraled from there.  It's sh!te like this (if true) that really pisses me off because it gives such a blatantly false perception.

 

 

Occam's Razor supports this in a big way, because it's not all that hard to put a tracer in an iPad that is a hell of a lot harder to remove than on an iPhone.

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2013/12/man_20_robbed_at_gunpoint_of_c.html

 

Buried in the story:  Cleveland Heights is on pace to have fewer armed robberies in 2013 than 2012.  An average of one a week still seems like a lot though.

Anyone not see this coming?

 

http://www.cleveland.com/beachwood/index.ssf/2014/01/crime_at_beachwood_place_mall.html#incart_river

The most offensive crime at BPM are the prices.  It's been at least a year for me now since I set foot in that place and I'm better off for it.

Anyone not see this coming?

 

http://www.cleveland.com/beachwood/index.ssf/2014/01/crime_at_beachwood_place_mall.html#incart_river

 

The mall's reaction or the crime?  That there is occasional crime is hardly a surprise.

Anyone not see this coming?

 

http://www.cleveland.com/beachwood/index.ssf/2014/01/crime_at_beachwood_place_mall.html#incart_river

 

The mall's reaction or the crime?  That there is occasional crime is hardly a surprise.

 

Actually, I was surprised that it's been 3 years since a violent crime has happened there, considering the number of visitors and the perception that there are a lot of problems.

 

Anyone not see this coming?

 

http://www.cleveland.com/beachwood/index.ssf/2014/01/crime_at_beachwood_place_mall.html#incart_river

 

The mall's reaction or the crime?  That there is occasional crime is hardly a surprise.

 

Actually, I was surprised that it's been 3 years since a violent crime has happened there, considering the number of visitors and the perception that there are a lot of problems.

 

 

The story is lost here.

 

This isn't a story about crime at BPM or in Beachwood in general.  It's a story about the coordination of Police Services with the Mall owners/managers.

Anyone not see this coming?

 

http://www.cleveland.com/beachwood/index.ssf/2014/01/crime_at_beachwood_place_mall.html#incart_river

 

The mall's reaction or the crime?  That there is occasional crime is hardly a surprise.

 

Actually, I was surprised that it's been 3 years since a violent crime has happened there, considering the number of visitors and the perception that there are a lot of problems.

 

 

The story is lost here.

 

This isn't a story about crime at BPM or in Beachwood in general.  It's a story about the coordination of Police Services with the Mall owners/managers.

 

More about the reaction of the city to the way security is being handled at the mall.

 

This probably wouldn't be a good time to talk about running one of the rapid lines there....

It doesn't look like the fish are biting today, E.  You might have better luck in one of the Transportation threads.

Lessons can sometimes be learned from tragedies.  I very loosely knew the guy who died yesterday from injuries sustained from a bar fight on Mayfield Rd. in South Euclid.  The (non-PD) story is that a fight occured and the victim was punched and briefly lost consciousness when he hit his head on a table.  He got up fairly quickly, went home, and then days later had to be rushed to the hospital where it was found that he had swelling in his brain that had gone untreated.  The fight happened on December 30.  He was taken to the hospital on January 3 and died yesterday.

 

This is why they say you shouldn't go to sleep unmonitored after hitting your head.  So, folks, anytime you get a concussion, go to the hospital to get cleared.  You can't see a bruise on your brain and this type of tragedy can result.

 

Wow that is tragic.  Also goes to show you while some people and alcohol don't mix.  Imagine the charges that are going to be brought against this guy's opponent in the fight.  And I'm sure it was over some important matter!

^He was charged with felonious assault.  That was before the other guy died.  I'm sure the charges will be amended to include some form of homicide.  But it will be a tough case, especially if it can be considered mutual combat.  From what I heard, it sounded more like a fight than an unprovoked attack.  And it isn't one of those situations where a fight happened and the suspect just kept on beating the other guy once he was down.  The deceased got punched during the course of a fight and hit his head as he fell.

^He was charged with felonious assault.  That was before the other guy died.  I'm sure the charges will be amended to include some form of homicide.  But it will be a tough case, especially if it can be considered mutual combat.  From what I heard, it sounded more like a fight than an unprovoked attack.  And it isn't one of those situations where a fight happened and the suspect just kept on beating the other guy once he was down.  The deceased got punched during the course of a fight and hit his head as he fell.

 

That's unpredictable.

 

There was a case a few years back where an off duty cop was working security at Randall Mall and went to arrest a crackhead for shoplifting.  Crackhead resists, and ends up hitting his head.  Similarly, he did not get treatment until it was too late.  Crackhead's family had political pull (particulary with the Village of North Randall), and the cop did time for manslaughter.

Political pull will get you nowhere with a jury and that was a vastly different scenario.  That cop was found guilty (for using excessive force) because he took a much smaller suspect, picked him up, and slammed him headfirst into a concrete floor.  The shoplifting suspect was thrown into the floor so hard that he broke bones and fractured his skull.  This was confirmed by several witnesses who saw the incident.  The cop claimed he slipped, but the jury didn't believe him and convicted him after several days of deliberation of involuntary manslaughter.  The verdict was affirmed upon appeal.  The cop (now ex-cop), btw, had a long history of excessive force incidents.

Is that the incident that happened at Dillard's...which shortly after Dillard's finally decided to throw in the towel at RPM?

Is that the incident that happened at Dillard's...which shortly after Dillard's finally decided to throw in the towel at RPM?

 

That's about the time a lot of places gave up on RPM.  The victim was part of the (House of) Wills family and some witness statements were allegedly shall-we-say "influenced".  This connection wasn't well known and the case was interpreted by stores in general as "aw crap, now we can't even detain shoplifters?".  This was one of the final straws in the demise of the mall.

The world would be a better place if we could still chop off their hands.  It would certainly be more civilized than cracking their skulls.

Is that the incident that happened at Dillard's...which shortly after Dillard's finally decided to throw in the towel at RPM?

 

That's about the time a lot of places gave up on RPM.  The victim was part of the (House of) Wills family and some witness statements were allegedly shall-we-say "influenced".  This connection wasn't well known and the case was interpreted by stores in general as "aw crap, now we can't even detain shoplifters?".  This was one of the final straws in the demise of the mall.

 

Ohhhh, so dramatic and sensational.

http://www.wkyc.com/story/news/2014/04/02/overnight-euclid-shooting/7192513/

 

Can it get anymore stereotypical of an urban area incident involving a gun?

http://www.ohio.com/news/break-news/former-navy-seal-shot-in-bath-township-parking-lot-police-seek-suspects-1.477215

 

Can it get any more un-stereotypical?

What's the difference?  Argument in a parking lot results in the victim getting shot.... or at least that is all that can be inferred from the reports.  Seems like the same story, albeit the media will give more than a passing mention to the Bath Twp incident given the identity of the victim.

http://www.cleveland.com/maple-heights/index.ssf/2014/04/maple_heights_man_killed_as_he.html#incart_river

 

They were known for not being very careful with their security doors there.  Apparently the perp just walked in there, shot him, and then robbed the place.

Apparently the was a mini-riot and stabbing on the East End of Lakewood last night in the streets in front one of the concert clubs for a metal show. It's a really bizarre situation From what I have read on the Observer. Apparently it involves rival groups from Boston and Y-town and people driving in from out of state for the shows.Preliminary reports said that shots were fired.

 

Here's  a link  run down. A certain editor of the observer weighs in early on being helpful as usual. I try to stay away from the observation deck as a rule usually, but this pieces it together pretty well.

 

http://www.lakewoodobserver.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=12598

Apparently the was a mini-riot and stabbing on the East End of Lakewood last night at one of the concert clubs for a metal show. It's a really bizarre situation From what I have read on the Observer. Apparently it involves rival groups and people driving in from out of state. Preliminary reports said that shots were fired, but apparently there wasn't. I'll try to find a link.

 

None of the fighting was done in the clubs--it all happened in the streets.  Sounds like a very brazen group of so-called "tough guys" from Boston.  I wonder how tough they'll be in the country lock up with their "sexy" little accents? ;)

Sorry I fixed it in the  original post. This should be an interesting one once the police sort it all out.

A violent hardcore gang against skinheads and drug dealers.  Ok.

 

All i can say to that is back in the day I never liked the straightedge guys, they were always righteous and violent, and full of crap.

Apparently the was a mini-riot and stabbing on the East End of Lakewood last night in the streets in front one of the concert clubs for a metal show. It's a really bizarre situation From what I have read on the Observer. Apparently it involves rival groups from Boston and Y-town and people driving in from out of state for the shows.Preliminary reports said that shots were fired.

 

Here's  a link  run down. A certain editor of the observer weighs in early on being helpful as usual. I try to stay away from the observation deck as a rule usually, but this pieces it together pretty well.

 

http://www.lakewoodobserver.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=12598

 

The lead singer in my brother's band knows the people who run the Foundry and we were posting back and forth about it on Facebook even though I was working in Bedford and they were playing in Geneva.  The Observer is getting props in 'net circles because unlike the rest of the media (other than WMMS) they had it exactly right.  Channel 19 and their ilk didn't dig at all, it was all "Foundry" this and "Foundry" that like they are the Castle or the Xecutive Ultra Lounge.  Cleveland.com's comments section was better than the story as a known CPD officer had some comments. Blaming the Foundry is like blaming the Boston Marathon committee for the bombings.

 

There was a "hardcore" festival with about 15-20 bands playing over three venues over two days.  One Boston band played at Now That's Class, they were affiliated with a "crew" called FSU that is militantly "straight edge" and "anti-racist".  They are actually on the FBI's "domestic terrorist" list, because the "straight edge" movement has its own Taliban like wing and they are on the vanguard.

 

One of the bands playing at the Foundry has a bitter rivalry with the NTC band, so FSU gathered a bunch of their partisans together and went storming down Detroit Avenue with baseball bats and machetes.  Someone supposedly had a gun, but the gun may have belonged to one of their intended victims because once it was fired they scattered. 

 

Their strategic error:  not being from around here, they didn't realize they were crossing from the domain of the Cleveland Police to the much more aggressive Lakewood Police.  LPD (probably forewarned) pounced and caught over twenty of these guys, nearly half the crew, before they could get back into Cleveland.

I live in Lakewood, so I've been following this pretty closely. When it was first reported, and I heard about where the stabbing was, I called that it probably involved the Phantasy or the Foundry. I had no idea it would be this crazy.

 

I'll be curious how many of the arrested guys are from out of rtown. I was talking to a out of state friend in Baltimore about it, once he read Boston, his reaction was Massholes, say no more. Now I believe it.

Are these fools the same people who attend those concerts across the street from the Stephanie Tubbs Center. Whenever I'm at that station, I always see some neo-nazi'esque/biker types hanging out. I'm thinking, what is this, Ashtabula in the 70s?

 

 

(Pounds fist on desk) where is Mayor Jackson on this?!?!?!  Where are our leaders?!?!?!  Why are they tolerating this inexcusable behavoir?!?!

(Pounds fist on desk) where is Mayor Jackson on this?!?!?!  Where are our leaders?!?!?!  Why are they tolerating this inexcusable behavoir?!?!

 

I get where you're coming from Heights, but in this instance I'd have to say it's not a reoccurring instance of the same club week in and week out.  If it became that, well then certainly there would be a similar sort of demand for action.

If a bands fans were in fact on a domestic terror list, it's pretty irresponsible then to book them at your venue. From the accounts it even sounds that if the gunshots weren't fired the melee would've continued and there could have been multiple deaths.

I've been to "Now That's Class" a dozen times probably.  Never struck me as an unsafe place or somewhere for people to congregate looking to do bad stuff.  Seemed like a casual dive bar/hipster hangout where people smoked some bud out back & drank cheap beers & listened to half-assed bands

^That's the same story with 99.9% of bars/clubs where incidents occur.  It's not the bar, but the crowd it targets on any given night.  If you schedule these types of bands, be prepared...... same as if you were to schedule one of those 18&over promotion events where the majority of our problems occur.

 

I get where you're coming from Heights, but in this instance I'd have to say it's not a reoccurring instance of the same club week in and week out.  If it became that, well then certainly there would be a similar sort of demand for action.

 

It also wasn't some single idiot with a gun outside the bar at closing time firing shots because some girl dissed him.  This was orchestrated to be planned chaos..... probably before the night even began.  Machetes, shanks, brass knuckles, baseball bats, and knives?  When is the last time you heard about that kind of mass riot here in Cleveland? 

It also wasn't some single idiot with a gun outside the bar at closing time firing shots because some girl dissed him.  This was orchestrated to be planned chaos..... probably before the night even began.  Machetes, shanks, brass knuckles, baseball bats, and knives?  When is the last time you heard about that kind of mass riot here in Cleveland? 

 

You don't.  But in Boston, it apparently happens every night (if you believe Hollywood or my many friends who hail from there....).

 

It also wasn't some single idiot with a gun outside the bar at closing time firing shots because some girl dissed him.  This was orchestrated to be planned chaos..... probably before the night even began.  Machetes, shanks, brass knuckles, baseball bats, and knives?  When is the last time you heard about that kind of mass riot here in Cleveland? 

 

You don't.  But in Boston, it apparently happens every night (if you believe Hollywood or my many friends who hail from there....).

 

 

HTS, still feels like a false equivalency.  I have no dog in this fight but in other instances where such a thing has happened there has been a track record, and they have been locals.

 

 

It's not a false equivolency when it only takes one incident for people to demand "action" from their leaders in other instances.  And I guarantee that if a hip-hop club or set of clubs, with no previous serious issues, had this type of incident occur with these types of weapons being brandished so brazingly out on the street, there would be such demands.  I get the realities, though.  I was not actually demanding any sort of action.

 

Personally, I don't care if its locals or not.  Nearly every crime you see reported by Farisse on cleveland.bomb about Cleveland Heights is not committed by a CH local.  That doesn't stop the comments section from being riddled with "how's that diversity thingy workin' out for ya?" comments.