^That's the same story with 99.9% of bars/clubs where incidents occur.  It's not the bar, but the crowd it targets on any given night.  If you schedule these types of bands, be prepared...... same as if you were to schedule one of those 18&over promotion events where the majority of our problems occur.

 

I get where you're coming from Heights, but in this instance I'd have to say it's not a reoccurring instance of the same club week in and week out.  If it became that, well then certainly there would be a similar sort of demand for action.

 

It also wasn't some single idiot with a gun outside the bar at closing time firing shots because some girl dissed him.  This was orchestrated to be planned chaos..... probably before the night even began.  Machetes, shanks, brass knuckles, baseball bats, and knives?  When is the last time you heard about that kind of mass riot here in Cleveland? 

 

Hts it STARTED in Cleveland. The machete wielding idiots came to Lakewood.

^That's the same story with 99.9% of bars/clubs where incidents occur.  It's not the bar, but the crowd it targets on any given night. 

 

Not exactly on point.

 

The danger of going to Now That's Class isn't the patrons, at least not up until Sat. Every crime I've heard of - or experienced - involving NTC has to do with the patrons being robbed or assaulted by other folks after leaving, or having their cars broken into.

 

^That's the same story with 99.9% of bars/clubs where incidents occur.  It's not the bar, but the crowd it targets on any given night. 

 

Not exactly on point.

 

The danger of going to Now That's Class isn't the patrons, at least not up until Sat. Every crime I've heard of - or experienced - involving NTC has to do with the patrons being robbed or assaulted by other folks after leaving, or having their cars broken into.

 

 

This is more akin to the incidents at Cocktails (25 blocks away) than the Castle bar or the Maple Leaf (each with 2 serious incidents within a couple weeks), let alone the Xecutive with multiples.  Outside people attacking rather than stuff brewing on the premises. 

^I see a difference in the orchestration of the chaos.  Fights happen at nearly any venue where liquor is served.  At certain clubs/bars, those fights are not contained and sometimes escalate into a shot being fired or somebody being stabbed.  However, I've never heard of a large group going to those events armed to the tooth with the specific purpose of causing this kind of mayhem.

 

When is the last time you heard about that kind of mass riot here in Cleveland? 

 

Hts it STARTED in Cleveland. The machete wielding idiots came to Lakewood.

 

Fine.  When is the last time anything remotely analogous (pack of thugs with these kinds of weapons attacking another group) happened in either City?

^I see a difference in the orchestration of the chaos.  Fights happen at nearly any venue where liquor is served.  At certain clubs/bars, those fights are not contained and sometimes escalate into a shot being fired or somebody being stabbed.  However, I've never heard of a large group going to those events armed to the tooth with the specific purpose of causing this kind of mayhem.

 

When is the last time you heard about that kind of mass riot here in Cleveland? 

 

Hts it STARTED in Cleveland. The machete wielding idiots came to Lakewood.

 

Fine.  When is the last time anything remotely analogous (pack of thugs with these kinds of weapons attacking another group) happened in either City?

 

Never. This is some unprecedented Game of Thrones type sh_t.

I'm sure those Boston "thugs" were not expecting the Lakewood OH Police response time in their planning.    Knowing Lakewood they probably had about 10 cars there within 2 minutes of the first call.   

Has there been confirmation that the arrested individuals were all from Boston?  My understanding is that FSU has gone nationwide, to a certain extent.  And I thought I also read that this was all instigated by some pre-event trash-talking with a rival group out of Youngstown.

(Pounds fist on desk) where is Mayor Jackson on this?!?!?!  Where are our leaders?!?!?!  Why are they tolerating this inexcusable behavoir?!?!

 

And why does the "white community" allow these things to happen?

The Lakewood police twitter said several were from out of state, and zero Lakewood residents.

 

Seriously, who plans a gang war for 7:00 in the evening while the shows were going on? This wasn't soccer practice we are talking about...

The PD is reporting that police said "most" of the 23 arrested were from outside of NEO.

 

http://www.cleveland.com/lakewood/index.ssf/2014/04/brawl_in_lakewood_saturday_tha.html#incart_river_default

(Pounds fist on desk) where is Mayor Jackson on this?!?!?!  Where are our leaders?!?!?!  Why are they tolerating this inexcusable behavoir?!?!

 

And why does the "white community" allow these things to happen?

 

I don't know if you guys are simply picking a fight with another forumer, but this behavior is disgusting. Anyone who buys a machete for the purpose of cutting some other person deserves to be permanently removed from society. It effing pisses me off to know that a majority of the perpetrators have not been caught. Who knows if the people arrested were instigators or merely defending themselves from these effing scumbags. We obviously need more jails.

(Pounds fist on desk) where is Mayor Jackson on this?!?!?!  Where are our leaders?!?!?!  Why are they tolerating this inexcusable behavoir?!?!

 

And why does the "white community" allow these things to happen?

 

Who said they are allowing it?  Plenty of innocent bystanders coming forward, identifying the guilty, giving statements to police.  More than what typically happens when some violent assault/shooting happens in a black community.  And you know this, man

I'm not sure why this has to be a white/black thing. I'm sensing antagonism between forumers and I'm not sure origin or of the purpose. If you're a violent metal head or violent wannabe gangsta, or violent fan of the Cleveland Orchestra it doesn't matter, you suck as a human being and don't deserve to be a free person.

 

My community - the place where this happened -  is white and black along with just about every other color you can imagine.

 

Just to clarify, I was being sarcastic...poking fun at comments about "the black community" needing to take care of its problems when something violent happens involving a black person (which happens mainly on cleveland.com).  Ease up, folks.

Just to clarify, I was being facetious.  Jeff was being sarcastic.  GP was being antagonistic. 

FYI, only ONE of the 23 persons arrested was from Northeast Ohio.

Just to clarify, I was being facetious.  Jeff was being sarcastic.  GP was being antagonistic. 

 

Maybe I skim read too fast lol. you guys need to use "/s" sarcasm alert (facetiousness alert?) so careless readers, like myself, can "get your drift" as the kids say now.

(Pounds fist on desk) where is Mayor Jackson on this?!?!?!  Where are our leaders?!?!?!  Why are they tolerating this inexcusable behavoir?!?!

 

And why does the "white community" allow these things to happen?

 

Who said they are allowing it?  Plenty of innocent bystanders coming forward, identifying the guilty, giving statements to police.  More than what typically happens when some violent assault/shooting happens in a black community.  And you know this, man

 

Plus, the speed of the police response suggests that they were tipped off in advance.  Which is highly likely.  When you are on the FBI's "street gang" list they actively recruit informants and when you make the "domestic terrorist" list they will try to plant undercover agents.

 

The most important thing now that many of the perps have been caught is defending the venue.  There always seems to be opportunists looking to shut a place down.  It's a responsible business.  The owner (Billy Morris of The Breakfast Club) is an absolute staple of the local rock and roll scene.

 

Plus, the speed of the police response suggests that they were tipped off in advance.  Which is highly likely.  When you are on the FBI's "street gang" list they actively recruit informants and when you make the "domestic terrorist" list they will try to plant undercover agents.

 

The most important thing now that many of the perps have been caught is defending the venue.  There always seems to be opportunists looking to shut a place down.  It's a responsible business.  The owner (Billy Morris of The Breakfast Club) is an absolute staple of the local rock and roll scene.

 

You've obviously never lived in Lakewood.  You could call about a teenage kid breaking your window with a baseball and three cruisers would be there within 4 minutes.  Of all the issues in Lakewood, police response is not one of them!

 

An undercover agent?  I doubt it.  I think in this case Lakewood caught wind of the gang moving down Detroit from Now Thats Class as the calls were coming in from bystanders.  By they time they crossed into Lakewood and formed up at the Foundry, Lakewood PD were in full tactical response mode.   

 

As I mentioned upthread, the Boston "toughs" were probably thinking it would be like Boston there in Cleveland.  Had they stayed on the Cleveland side of the line, it may very well have ended up that way (although Lakewood might have responded to help out CPD).

Who knew that anti-racists were so violent

The Observer has a list of names and mugshots on the observation deck (their forum), no one from Boston was arrested. However, some were from out of state, Indiana specifically. The majority seem to be from the Toledo area. One guy is from my hometown, Lake Milton (keepin' it classy) but I didn't recognize the last name. As somebody pointed out this group represented those not organized enough to get away, so who knows where the other people were from.

 

LWPD response is quick. Really quick, so I am in agreement that they were called as the mob moved down Detroit towards the Foundry.

Who knew that anti-racists were so violent

 

Is this sarcasm or are you being serious?

Both - the two groups were part of feuding "anti-racist" gangs, the Friends Stand United and Swing on Sight Family.

Both - the two groups were part of feuding "anti-racist" gangs, the Friends Stand United and Swing on Sight Family.

 

I know the outcome isn't funny, but just reading this reminds me of Monty Python "The Meaning Of Life."  Where are the "People's Front of Judeah?"

They may be "anti-racist" but that really doesn't mean they are all about brotherly love.

 

I just meant the anti-skinhead groups have a long history of being violent too. That's why I asked if it was sarcasm. It's a gang mentality regardless of what they are preaching. 

^They prefer the term "crew"

 

^^^The anti-racist thing is a bit overblown.  These guys fight whomever.  They are all "like to fight" guys.  But at metal concerts, the easiest people to entice into a brawl are the skinheads and neo-nazis.

 

The police did not get there until the fight had already started.  According to witnesses who called the police, the two groups were making quite a scene before the fighting started, brandishing their weapons (knives, bats, etc.) and yelling at each other in the parking lot for a few minutes.  If you watch the dash-cam, the cops are dispatched when the fighting has already begun and shots had been fired.  It doesn't look at all like they were tipped off in advance no matter what 'cultural' assumption you want to make.

 

And why does the "white community" allow these things to happen?

 

Who said they are allowing it?  Plenty of innocent bystanders coming forward, identifying the guilty, giving statements to police.  More than what typically happens when some violent assault/shooting happens in a black community.  And you know this, man

 

All of the witnesses were white?  I wasn't aware.  But this gives me comfort to know that the other 30-50 combatants will be rounded up in short order when the community comes forward and identifies them.... particularly the shooter and the ones who were doing the stabbing.

You know, I was basing my suspicion of an informant on LPD being quick enough to catch the aggressors (FSU).  But having been a “drunksitter” for eleven years and having a three year old with cousins reminds me that all too often it’s the responder, not the aggressor, who gets caught.  They should be able to tell from clothes and tattoos which side each of the arrestees was on.  It could be that the people who marched down from Cleveland managed to escape by the same route.

 

Supposedly there were FBI as well as police interviewing people at NTC.

^FSU is on the FBI's gang watchlist.  There involvement in this incident probably has something to do with a larger probe and/or the transportation of weapons across state lines.

The Observer has a list of names and mugshots on the observation deck (their forum), no one from Boston was arrested. However, some were from out of state, Indiana specifically. The majority seem to be from the Toledo area. One guy is from my hometown, Lake Milton (keepin' it classy) but I didn't recognize the last name. As somebody pointed out this group represented those not organized enough to get away, so who knows where the other people were from.

 

LWPD response is quick. Really quick, so I am in agreement that they were called as the mob moved down Detroit towards the Foundry.

 

I often call LPD when I see signs of trouble in the neighborhood, and they respond quickly. I am always thanking them for their quick response.

 

The fact is that police station is on Detroit Avenue at the east end of the city, near to The Foundry. It's no surprise LPD got there in a hurry and in force.

^ speaking of quick response, I saw a police cruiser doing maybe even 70 mph down Detroit. I was like wtf is happening?

 

Boy this corner of Lakewood has been having a rough couple weeks. As I was driving west on Detroit about 20 minutes ago, just as I was passing the 5 o'clock tavern the top wall of the building directly to the south collapsed onto the sidewalk and street. I'm not sure what it's called, but it was the "decorative" wall on top of the roof (not actual living space). I stopped as there was one guy riding his bike that was hit and laying down. A few more bricks dropped and he jumped up and ran away so he seemed relatively okay.

That's bizarre!

 

This area of Lakewood needs a big-time shot in the arm. The ex-Fairchild Chevy's vacant lots where later phases of the Rockport Square development were supposed to be built are a lingering eyesore, as are the empty storefronts nearby. I think this is contributing the real/perceived safety issues here. If the rest of Rockport Square is completed with market-rate apartments, I'll bet the storefronts will fill up again. Rockport Square was and is Forest City Enterprises' project. If this project isn't enough of a moneymaker to finish and keep their Wall Street shareholders happy, then they need to sell the property to someone who is interested in improving their own community and who can do it for a smaller, non-Wall Street profit margin. These vacant lots are dragging down the Detroit Avenue corridor at the east end of Lakewood. Either sh*t or get off the pot.

 

Boy this corner of Lakewood has been having a rough couple weeks. As I was driving west on Detroit about 20 minutes ago, just as I was passing the 5 o'clock tavern the top wall of the building directly to the south collapsed onto the sidewalk and street. I'm not sure what it's called, but it was the "decorative" wall on top of the roof (not actual living space). I stopped as there was one guy riding his bike that was hit and laying down. A few more bricks dropped and he jumped up and ran away so he seemed relatively okay.

 

Is that what all of the police and fire trucks were blocking Detroit for?

^Yes. It was a fairly substantial amount of rubble. As it was happening my first thought was "huh that's weird they'd be demolishing a building with people driving by" lol

That's bizarre!

 

This area of Lakewood needs a big-time shot in the arm. The ex-Fairchild Chevy's vacant lots where later phases of the Rockport Square development were supposed to be built are a lingering eyesore, as are the empty storefronts nearby. I think this is contributing the real/perceived safety issues here. If the rest of Rockport Square is completed with market-rate apartments, I'll bet the storefronts will fill up again. Rockport Square was and is Forest City Enterprises' project. If this project isn't enough of a moneymaker to finish and keep their Wall Street shareholders happy, then they need to sell the property to someone who is interested in improving their own community and who can do it for a smaller, non-Wall Street profit margin. These vacant lots are dragging down the Detroit Avenue corridor at the east end of Lakewood. Either sh*t or get off the pot.

 

That's everywhere.  The old Bedford Target/Topps complex is now completely empty except for a couple restaurant outbuildings, and Northfield Plaza right down the street from the Rocksino is pretty underutilized.  At this point towns are competing with each other pretty heard, and negative "incentives" aimed at current property owners are more likely to backfire.

 

When did Fairchild close in Lakewood?

Fairchild Chevy closed their Lakewood site about 2000-2002 and moved it to Westlake. Car dealerships were (and probably still are) being encouraged to relocate along interstates.

Sorry I'm dwelling on the macabre this morning....

 

Two shot after group crashes University Heights house party

"UNIVERSITY HEIGHTS, Ohio — Two teenagers suffered gunshots wounds Friday after a group of people crashed a house party, police said.

Someone shot a 19-year-old man from Cleveland Heights and another 19-year-old from Beachwood in the stomach and chest, University Heights Police Chief Steven Hammett said"

 

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2014/06/two_shot_after_group_crashes_u.html#incart_river_default

 

This is disturbing considering I grew up around this general area and crashed plenty of house parties in Beachwood, Cleveland Heights, University Heights, etc only a couple of years ago.  The possibility that someone would have ended up shot at the end of the night would have been totally unfathomable.  This is a nice, desirable area.  This kind of gun violence here is mind blowing.

^I don't know about unfathomable.  It wouldn't have been unfathomable during my time of house parties 20 years ago..... that was during the 90's when gun violence was at its peak, of course.  It still would've been pretty shocking, as I'm sure it is today.

http://www.cleveland.com/parma/index.ssf/2014/06/three_men_charged_in_connectio.html#incart_river

Sorry I'm dwelling on the macabre this morning....

 

Two shot after group crashes University Heights house party

"UNIVERSITY HEIGHTS, Ohio — Two teenagers suffered gunshots wounds Friday after a group of people crashed a house party, police said.

Someone shot a 19-year-old man from Cleveland Heights and another 19-year-old from Beachwood in the stomach and chest, University Heights Police Chief Steven Hammett said"

 

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2014/06/two_shot_after_group_crashes_u.html#incart_river_default

 

This is disturbing considering I grew up around this general area and crashed plenty of house parties in Beachwood, Cleveland Heights, University Heights, etc only a couple of years ago.  The possibility that someone would have ended up shot at the end of the night would have been totally unfathomable.  This is a nice, desirable area.  This kind of gun violence here is mind blowing.

 

I'm moving to this block in a couple days. It looks like such a well-kept and peaceful (i.e. boring) suburb.

^It is

Sorry I'm dwelling on the macabre this morning....

 

Two shot after group crashes University Heights house party

"UNIVERSITY HEIGHTS, Ohio — Two teenagers suffered gunshots wounds Friday after a group of people crashed a house party, police said.

Someone shot a 19-year-old man from Cleveland Heights and another 19-year-old from Beachwood in the stomach and chest, University Heights Police Chief Steven Hammett said"

 

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2014/06/two_shot_after_group_crashes_u.html#incart_river_default

 

This is disturbing considering I grew up around this general area and crashed plenty of house parties in Beachwood, Cleveland Heights, University Heights, etc only a couple of years ago.  The possibility that someone would have ended up shot at the end of the night would have been totally unfathomable.  This is a nice, desirable area.  This kind of gun violence here is mind blowing.

 

I'm moving to this block in a couple days. It looks like such a well-kept and peaceful (i.e. boring) suburb.

 

My parents have a rental home near this and I've never seen any "crime" like this outside of the Warrensville/Cedar area and the adjacent JC area.  If you were to ask my Mom, the only intruders you have to worry about are deer!  I can't see this being a repeat or frequent situation, but stranger things can happen.

Thanks. I'm not terribly worried, just taking it as a lesson as this crap can happen anywhere. Damn guns.

 

Apparently the occupants at the house it happened at are were packed and planning to move in a week anyway (unrelated to the incident). Guessing some kids let a goodbye house party get out of control.

 

Sorry I'm dwelling on the macabre this morning....

 

Two shot after group crashes University Heights house party

"UNIVERSITY HEIGHTS, Ohio — Two teenagers suffered gunshots wounds Friday after a group of people crashed a house party, police said.

Someone shot a 19-year-old man from Cleveland Heights and another 19-year-old from Beachwood in the stomach and chest, University Heights Police Chief Steven Hammett said"

 

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2014/06/two_shot_after_group_crashes_u.html#incart_river_default

 

This is disturbing considering I grew up around this general area and crashed plenty of house parties in Beachwood, Cleveland Heights, University Heights, etc only a couple of years ago.  The possibility that someone would have ended up shot at the end of the night would have been totally unfathomable.  This is a nice, desirable area.  This kind of gun violence here is mind blowing.

 

Did you crash them intending to get into a fight, though?  Good chance that's what happened here.

^No, my crew and I were definitely not fighters.

^^What makes you say that they crashed with that intent?  It sounds more like they showed up at a party uninvited, which is probably increasingly more likely with social media, and they got into an argument with people who were there.  The argument led into a fight.  The argument could've been over a girl or simply the fact that they were uninvited.  There is nothing in the article to suggest that the crashers were the instigators or even the ones who fired the shots.

I can't even imagine just showing up at someone's house party like that.  How are you not inviting a fight by doing that?

I can't even imagine just showing up at someone's house party like that.  How are you not inviting a fight by doing that?

 

Kind of my point.  That's what it sounds like, especially with the shooting involved.

 

As Hts says, much depends on what side did the shooting.  But by definition, if you show up uninvited you can be considered an "instigator".

I can't even imagine just showing up at someone's house party like that.  How are you not inviting a fight by doing that?

 

I did it my first year or so in college quite a bit.  If we got into a fight, I can't remember it ever being because we weren't invited.  I suppose those parties were intended to be open to anyone who wanted to come.  Still.... it is the same age range..... 18-19

I can't even imagine just showing up at someone's house party like that.  How are you not inviting a fight by doing that?

 

I did it my first year or so in college quite a bit.  If we got into a fight, I can't remember it ever being because we weren't invited.  I suppose those parties were intended to be open to anyone who wanted to come.  Still.... it is the same age range..... 18-19

 

My experience was that parties in college, particularly fraternity parties, were basically open. 

 

High school (or post high school, non college)  "house parties" were a different matter entirely.