High school (or post high school, non college)  "house parties" were a different matter entirely.[/color]

 

Exactly. Show up uninvited? That's when my friends and I would start shooting!

 

Seriously though, there were hundreds and hundreds of fights where I grew up. Not once did it ever lead to someone shooting or even stabbing another person.

I can't even imagine just showing up at someone's house party like that.  How are you not inviting a fight by doing that?

I'm not sure a person who shows up uninvited would equate to a fight.  Unwanted attention, sure. 

 

I'm from a different generation, if someone showed up, uninvited, at my parents house (when I lived with them) or my apartment I would NOT let them!  I'd probably make a comment on proper etiquette, but I damn sure would not let them in!  Nor would I think about going to a party I was not formally invited to.

High school (or post high school, non college)  "house parties" were a different matter entirely.

 

Exactly. Show up uninvited? That's when my friends and I would start shooting!

 

Seriously though, there were hundreds and hundreds of fights where I grew up. Not once did it ever lead to someone shooting or even stabbing another person.

Where did you grow up?

Based on the location of this house and my knowledge of the area, my guess is that these were not JCU students, despite the age of those involved.

http://www.newsnet5.com/news/local-news/oh-cuyahoga/kyle-moss-dead-in-shooting-in-maple-heights

 

http://fox8.com/2014/06/25/police-man-arrested-for-shooting-neighbor-during-argument/

 

Two in 24 hours within a mile or two of each other along the Maple Heights - Bedford Heights border.

Just heard that Colony on Lee Road in Cleveland Heights was robbed today and the owner was shot.  Terrible.

Wow.  That is an odd choice for a Monday afternoon robbery.  How do deposits work in the bar business?  Are they not completed until the following day? (yes, I'm paging you, E Rocc)

 

Here's all that I could find right now - http://www.19actionnews.com/story/25905980/man-shot-at-bar

I wonder if the cameras caught anything. Such a weird story though. Risky location and time of day. I wonder how it escalated to shots actually being fired.

FWIW, the story I posted (which is very bare bones reporting) said nothing about a robbery.  It's possible that there was a dispute which turned into gunplay.  Still very weird either way.

^^ I assume you mean the cameras on the street?  Hopefully they had cameras inside too.  Most restaurants deposit the weekend take on Mondays.  I'm hearing streets around meadowbrook are blocked off and there are a lot of cops - maybe they have the person cornered??  Also hearing the shooting was in the basement office and might not a robbery but the owner was targeted.  Disgruntled patron or employee?  <- this is all pure speculation.

Now I'm hearing attempted robbery as well as other rumors so I'll stop speculating and let the facts come out.

My sister says she was driving on Taylor near Meadowbrook and saw someone standing outside a cop car with an assault rifle style weapon.  Sounds like SWAT was called in and, given the placement, it would seem to be the strategy they would use if they had a suspect boxed in.

Wow.  That is an odd choice for a Monday afternoon robbery.  How do deposits work in the bar business?  Are they not completed until the following day? (yes, I'm paging you, E Rocc)

 

Here's all that I could find right now - http://www.19actionnews.com/story/25905980/man-shot-at-bar

 

I know how we do it (and am not saying, no offense to the regulars).  I also "know" anecdotally that other places do it completely differently.  Much depends on the nature of your crowd, and hence your cash flow.. A heavy lunch crowd plus an owner or manager that doesn't like to be up early could mean afternoon deposits. 

 

Key word there is "cash flow".  If your lunch crowd spends $$$ and your evening crowd uses plastic, afternoon makes a ton of sense.  If it's the other way around, mornings do.

 

A smart owner keeps this a secret, for this exact reason.  Of course a smart owner doesn't "treat the cash like cash", and many many do.  So my guess is something leaked.

The Colony is not open for lunch on Mondays, FWIW.

 

EDIT: The article on Channel 5's website makes it sound as if it just happened near the Colony (and possibly unrelated to the restaurant):

 

http://www.newsnet5.com/news/local-news/oh-cuyahoga/shooting-reported-on-lee-road-at-silsby-road-in-cleveland-heights-suspect-at-large

 

EDIT: Cleveland.com is reporting that it was the owner who was shot:

 

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2014/06/owner_of_brennans_colony_in_cl.html#incart_m-rpt-1

The Colony is not open for lunch on Mondays, FWIW.

 

EDIT: The article on Channel 5's website makes it sound as if it just happened near the Colony (and possibly unrelated to the restaurant):

 

http://www.newsnet5.com/news/local-news/oh-cuyahoga/shooting-reported-on-lee-road-at-silsby-road-in-cleveland-heights-suspect-at-large

 

EDIT: Cleveland.com is reporting that it was the owner who was shot:

 

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2014/06/owner_of_brennans_colony_in_cl.html#incart_m-rpt-1

Then he might start late on Monday and be making his weekend deposits in the afternoon.

Unfortunately, I am hearing that he has passed away.  Wow, what a tragedy.

Wow.

Terrible.  I'm guessing that this was not a random incident.  Someone planned this robbery and, in these types of situations, the police should be looking first and foremost at current and former employees.

Is crime really getting worse in the Heights (as it seems) or is this increased attention the product of the Northeast Ohio Media Group's restructured reporting scheme?  Do we have statistics on this?  How about those who live in the Heights - does crime seem to be better, worse or about the same to you?

Wow.

 

I agree...Wow

^^Local crime data is pretty unreliable (especially if the city has been egregiously mislabeling some crimes, as was the case in CH), and it's very difficult to separate signal from noise for sample sizes this small, but FWIW: http://www.city-data.com/city/Cleveland-Heights-Ohio.html

 

 

And of course, Adam Ferrise and the Plain Dealer already have a poll up asking if you still feel safe visiting Lee Road. Pathetic

This has always been one of my favorite low-key bars, very typical of what now exists up and down Lee Road, and probably the prototype for the vast majority of watering holes in that area.  I've never felt unsafe around there, and this won't change things for me, but I have to believe that it's time for the city and residents to wake up and realize that they need to perhaps rethink some of its policies.

Is crime really getting worse in the Heights (as it seems) or is this increased attention the product of the Northeast Ohio Media Group's restructured reporting scheme?  Do we have statistics on this?  How about those who live in the Heights - does crime seem to be better, worse or about the same to you?

 

I don't feel it's any worse than it was in the mid-2000s when I moved back to the area, but I don't really hang out in the areas where I suspect that it may have gotten worse (i.e. along the northern border--think Noble-Monticello area when there seems to be bar disturbances every few months).

I know we've discussed this about city neighborhoods (lack of it), but does Cleveland Heights have police designated to the popular commercial districts? Seems like a cop or two in Coventry, Cedar Fairmount, and Cedar Lee would be beneficial.

May not be the time or place but much is made of the CLE Heights section 8 situation (seemingly referenced above)... I perhaps haven't lived in town long enough to know what the situation. us.... So.... What did CLE Heights do to promote/embrace this type of housing and why and when?

May not be the time or place but much is made of the CLE Heights section 8 situation (seemingly referenced above)... I perhaps haven't lived in town long enough to know what the situation. us.... So.... What did CLE Heights do to promote/embrace this type of housing and why and when?

 

Where is it referenced?

^^Nothing.  It's a red herring canard uninformed people moronically trumpet.

 

[edited with improved word choice]

I know we've discussed this about city neighborhoods (lack of it), but does Cleveland Heights have police designated to the popular commercial districts? Seems like a cop or two in Coventry, Cedar Fairmount, and Cedar Lee would be beneficial.

 

They're ubiquitous in Coventry, but I haven't noticed their presence as much around Lee Road.

 

May not be the time or place but much is made of the CLE Heights section 8 situation (seemingly referenced above)... I perhaps haven't lived in town long enough to know what the situation. us.... So.... What did CLE Heights do to promote/embrace this type of housing and why and when?

 

I think that some city policy over the past few decades has been too lenient and accommodating to people that have in turn brought, um, stress to the community and its resources.  However I also believe that much of the demographic change in CH was inevitable as it happened in just about every other eastern inner-ring suburb.  Now what the city can do moving forward?  I have some ideas, but they'd probably offend quite a few people and they'd also likely be cost prohibitive...though the city has seemed to have found money over the years for things like tax abatements for condo development.

And of course, Adam Ferrise and the Plain Dealer already have a poll up asking if you still feel safe visiting Lee Road. Pathetic

 

Typical low-brow, vulture/irresponsible PD.  This kinda crap overshadows the few great writers they have, like Michelle and Steve Litt.

Violent teenagers... If these two should be in jail for other crimes but aren't, there should be an outrage by both residents and the media.

 

http://www.newsnet5.com/news/local-news/oh-cuyahoga/shooting-reported-on-lee-road-at-silsby-road-in-cleveland-heights-suspect-at-large

 

I know we've discussed this about city neighborhoods (lack of it), but does Cleveland Heights have police designated to the popular commercial districts? Seems like a cop or two in Coventry, Cedar Fairmount, and Cedar Lee would be beneficial.

 

I see police patrolling down Coventry all the time.

 

I know we've discussed this about city neighborhoods (lack of it), but does Cleveland Heights have police designated to the popular commercial districts? Seems like a cop or two in Coventry, Cedar Fairmount, and Cedar Lee would be beneficial.

 

I see police patrolling down Coventry all the time.

 

My personal OPINION of Cleveland Heights police after spending almost a decade in that area is that they only care about getting money from speeding and parking tickets.  I hardly ever see a cop not on traffic duty.

My personal OPINION of Cleveland Heights police after spending almost a decade in that area is that they only care about getting money from speeding and parking tickets.  I hardly ever see a cop not on traffic duty.

 

Whether that's reality or not (and I think it's really only a small piece of what they're doing), it does seem to be the perception that many people both inside but especially outside of the community have on Cleveland Heights.  This is potentially something that needs to be addressed.  I really have no problem with them going after those committing traffic violations as they cruise along Fairmount Boulevard/Cedar Road/Mayfield Road, who are only using the city as a pass-through on their way to/from downtown.  However the city probably does need to do something to make the business districts more accommodating for those who are spending their money at CH businesses.

 

 

But let me also add this: I think the discussion of the police is mostly a red herring.  The real issue is changing demographics on the eastside of Cleveland, in East Cleveland, and in parts of Cleveland Heights itself.  Close proximity to areas that have changed for the worse have increased the chances (and actual occurrences) of these types of crimes in Cleveland Heights' otherwise safe neighborhoods.

But let me also add this: I think the discussion of the police is mostly a red herring.  The real issue is changing demographics on the eastside of Cleveland, in East Cleveland, and in parts of Cleveland Heights itself.  Close proximity to areas that have changed for the worse have increased the chances (and actual occurrences) of these types of crimes in Cleveland Heights' otherwise safe neighborhoods.

 

Here's the million dollar question: How do we control this?

Now what the city can do moving forward?  I have some ideas, but they'd probably offend quite a few people and they'd also likely be cost prohibitive...though the city has seemed to have found money over the years for things like tax abatements for condo development.

 

A city doesn't 'find money' for tax abatements on new construction.  You're better than that.

 

The violent crime does seem to have picked up in CH this past year.  It seems that way because it probably has to a degree, and that degree, however large or small, is being purposefully amplified because the Chief pissed off a vindictive local beat crime reporter.

 

Assuming Brennan was there to pick up the weekend deposits, this particular incident seems too opportunistic to be totally random.  It's the apparent rise in random violence which has me more concerned.

Sorry if this was discussed earlier, but how do you know the beat reporter is upset with the Chief? Is that just speculation from the high number of CH crime reports lately?

Sorry if this was discussed earlier, but how do you know the beat reporter is upset with the Chief? Is that just speculation from the high number of CH crime reports lately?

I suppose it's speculation, but he wrote a pretty scathing article about the CHPD last December when they gave him a redacted police report about a high school student bring robbed.

A city doesn't 'find money' for tax abatements on new construction.  You're better than that.

 

Sorry, while you and I may disagree on what exactly to call it, there's little doubt that CH and the other Heights suburbs have created situations where municipal/school district budgets must be planned while taking into consideration the lost revenue from tax abatements.

 

The violent crime does seem to have picked up in CH this past year.  It seems that way because it probably has to a degree, and that degree, however large or small, is being purposefully amplified because the Chief pissed off a vindictive local beat crime reporter.

 

Yep, Ferrise has a hard-on for Cleveland Heights.

 

Assuming Brennan was there to pick up the weekend deposits, this particular incident seems too opportunistic to be totally random.  It's the apparent rise in random violence which has me more concerned.

 

I agree on both points.  My concern is that there are lots of seemingly more lucrative targets in other suburbs.  What is it about Cleveland Heights that makes it such a magnet and how can we change that?

But let me also add this: I think the discussion of the police is mostly a red herring.  The real issue is changing demographics on the eastside of Cleveland, in East Cleveland, and in parts of Cleveland Heights itself.  Close proximity to areas that have changed for the worse have increased the chances (and actual occurrences) of these types of crimes in Cleveland Heights' otherwise safe neighborhoods.

 

Here's the million dollar question: How do we control this?

 

a) Aggressively crack down on Section 8 and other slumlords by all legal means possible.

b) Aggressively pursue a policy of demolishing as many vacant and decaying homes as possible, including entire neighborhoods if necessary (Superior Triangle, for instance).

c) Become zero tolerance on crime, and that includes moving officers away from parking enforcement and putting pressure on the court system to stop cutting breaks for violent offenders.

d) Put up barriers, cul-de-sacs, and other means of separation of traffic along as much of the East Cleveland border as possible. (I don't care what signal this sends, Shaker Heights did this in the 1980s along its border with Warrensville Heights and I truly believe most of the riff-raff in CH is coming in from EC.)

 

Cleveland Heights' problems stem directly from the fact that it has taken on more of the burden, proportionally, for a troubled segment of the population, than it ever should have.  Because of this, city and school resources have become spread far too thin and too much of a burden has fallen on the rest of the city's residents.  Cleveland Heights has always prided itself on being a peacefully and well-planned integrated suburb, and to a large extent I think it's true that that process played out in CH as well as it did in just about any suburb nationwide.  But it seems like now that tolerant attitude has gone too far and it's putting the city's assets in jeopardy.  This thing is in danger of collapsing under its own weight unless action is taken.

I mainly agree with you Cleve17.  A number of years ago I never would have condoned such policies, but the realities have sunk in.  It would certainly be a huge mistake to continually act as though everything is always random when there are real issues and real threats which will only lead to further destabilization.  I'm hoping if nothing else that the events today will shake things up a bit and lead to a lower tolerance of such nonsense. 

 

And of course crime has gotten worse in the eastern suburbs.  Heck there are robberies in Shaker Heights now. 

It just goes with the territory.  Of all the years of statistical analysis I have had to do for my DC job I have never seen a situation where the type of demographic shifts that the east side suburbs have experienced hasn't also lead to higher instances of crime.  Equally there is that danger when so much of your housing becomes rental and certainly with large amounts of section 8.  Without a doubt it it de-stabilizes things. 

 

Where I disagree with you Cleve17 is on the tax abatement front.  I think Cleveland Heights has to do everything in its power to bring new housing products to the market in areas such as Cedar Lee and Taylor etc.(its about maintaining a balance).    They have to do everything they can to compete with what is happening in places like Lakewood as opposed to being left behind.  Impressions are very important here as well, but it really is vital to hold onto mixed incomes, otherwise things will only continue to deteriorate and property values will only continue to go down.             

Where I disagree with you Cleve17 is on the tax abatement front.  I think Cleveland Heights has to do everything in its power to bring new housing products to the market in areas such as Cedar Lee and Taylor etc.(its about maintaining a balance).    They have to do everything they can to compete with what is happening in places like Lakewood as opposed to being left behind.  Impressions are very important here as well, but it really is vital to hold onto mixed incomes, otherwise things will only continue to deteriorate and property values will only continue to go down.             

 

CH already has a great variety of unique and attractive housing options.  If you believe, as I do, that tax abatements do hit the budget (maybe not on a dollar for dollar basis, but in some regard), then what I'm saying is that that money would be better spent on getting under control dilapidated and nuisance properties.  I see this as addition by subtraction: freeing up city resources to be used elsewhere, cutting down on housing supply, making the neighborhoods/schools more attractive and livable, etc.  It doesn't how matter many new condos you build in Cedar-Fairmont or Severance, if you don't do something to stop the spread of the problem southward from East Cleveland, those shiny new units will depreciate in value faster than a new car the moment it's driven off the lot.

Ultimately you need to do what you can to keep housing values up.  When values drop below a certain level it often only makes sense as rental housing, which is what has been happening to the east side in general.  This has certainly opened the door to additional diversity, but also leads to decline.     

 

I think all of the things you mention come into play, but I do think that they need some contemporary and modern housing in areas like Cedar Lee (in the empty lots), to keep the district relevant and viable.   

 

I would not on the other hand advocate subsidizing the Turkey Ridge proposal, as that is not where I would worry about new housing, certainly not subsidizing its construction (yet there would be a demand there). 

But I really think Cedar Lee needs to be built upon and made to be a better connected district, more continuity and a more viable business environment.     

Terrible.  I'm guessing that this was not a random incident.  Someone planned this robbery and, in these types of situations, the police should be looking first and foremost at current and former employees.

 

Yep.  If it was his policy to do his accounting on Monday afternoon (and not being open for lunch on Monday would point to this), and someone knew this, they'd know this was the best time to rob the place.

Violent teenagers... If these two should be in jail for other crimes but aren't, there should be an outrage by both residents and the media.

 

http://www.newsnet5.com/news/local-news/oh-cuyahoga/shooting-reported-on-lee-road-at-silsby-road-in-cleveland-heights-suspect-at-large

 

Odds are good these aren't a couple of honor students trying to raise the tuition to go to Harvard, but frequent flyers (emeritus?) in the juvenile justice system.  Where, of course, there is no accountability because the records are sealed.  Judges gain no votes by being tough, but potentially pick them up from the families of "good boys that made a couple mistakes". 

 

This needs to change. 

To be clear, the Cleveland Heights Municipal Court handles all adult misdemeanors and traffic offenses.  ALL felonies go to the county court system and ALL juvenile offenses go to the county's juvenile court system.

 

As for the county judges, the next time a judge runs for election on something other than being "tough on crime" will probably be the first.  Sentencing guidelines and state budgetary constraints are the bigger concerns, especially when the latter is being used up needlessly on non-violent offenders.  THAT needs to change.

To be clear, the Cleveland Heights Municipal Court handles all adult misdemeanors and traffic offenses.  ALL felonies go to the county court system and ALL juvenile offenses go to the county's juvenile court system.

 

As for the county judges, the next time a judge runs for election on something other than being "tough on crime" will probably be the first.  Sentencing guidelines and state budgetary constraints are the bigger concerns, especially when the latter is being used up needlessly on non-violent offenders.  THAT needs to change.

 

True, but with juvenile judges there's currently no way to verify they are truly being tough.

Ultimately you need to do what you can to keep housing values up.  When values drop below a certain level it often only makes sense as rental housing, which is what has been happening to the east side in general.  This has certainly opened the door to additional diversity, but also leads to decline.     

 

I think all of the things you mention come into play, but I do think that they need some contemporary and modern housing in areas like Cedar Lee (in the empty lots), to keep the district relevant and viable.   

 

I would not on the other hand advocate subsidizing the Turkey Ridge proposal, as that is not where I would worry about new housing, certainly not subsidizing its construction (yet there would be a demand there). 

But I really think Cedar Lee needs to be built upon and made to be a better connected district, more continuity and a more viable business environment.   

 

There are lots of suburbs with housing stock that is inferior to CH but home values that are much higher.  The difference?  It's almost always better-perceived schools and safety.  Cleveland Heights is an urban suburb, so there's a limit to what can be done.  But one thing that might really go a long ways towards improving both of those things would be limiting the supply of low-income rental properties.

 

Look, the issue of poverty and its related symptoms (including crime) is not a local problem, not a state problem, it's a national problem.  Cleveland Heights and its residents have done more than its share to try to help fix the situation, but it's becoming too burdensome for the community like this are becoming more frequent as a result (not to mention all of the lower-profile crime occurring elsewhere in CH).  New condos are basically lipstick on a pig and do nothing for the average homeowner in the Heights.

^They do a helluva lot more for the community than empty lots.  Keep in mind that new condos with tax abatements are built on non-revenue generating lots.  In 10 years, DUE TO THE ABATEMENTS, those lots will be very lucrative in terms of revenue.  And also consider that tax abatements don't apply to RITA, so there is still that income.  One of my closest friends is a developer in the City and I can GUARANTEE you beyond a shadow of a doubt that the abatements were absolutely necessary for the condos to be built in the first place.  It wouldn't have happened without the abatements..... which would have risked the lots going into a land bank and being open to purchase by developers who sought to build 'less desirable' housing options.

 

To be clear, the Cleveland Heights Municipal Court handles all adult misdemeanors and traffic offenses.  ALL felonies go to the county court system and ALL juvenile offenses go to the county's juvenile court system.

 

As for the county judges, the next time a judge runs for election on something other than being "tough on crime" will probably be the first.  Sentencing guidelines and state budgetary constraints are the bigger concerns, especially when the latter is being used up needlessly on non-violent offenders.  THAT needs to change.

 

True, but with juvenile judges there's currently no way to verify they are truly being tough.

 

Or that they are not being tough.  Juvenile judges, even moreso than common pleas judges, are handcuffed by the law.  The problem I see is not so much with the juvenile courts as it is with the juvenile detention facilities.  Kids are coming out worse than they are going in, and the more time they spend in there, the worse off they seem to be.  Indeed, Cleveland was never a really big gang city, but we now have one (Heartless Felons) that started in the juvenile facility which would rank up there in terms of violence with any west-coast gang