Why is it always young teens doing this? Some of them aren't even old enough to drive. It it some kind of gang initiation ritual? Are they using the stolen vehicles to commit other crimes?   

11 hours ago, LibertyBlvd said:

Why is it always young teens doing this? Some of them aren't even old enough to drive. It it some kind of gang initiation ritual? Are they using the stolen vehicles to commit other crimes?   

Probably all of that and more.  They are getting younger and younger.  Aren't even young enough to drive?  The killing of a 14-year old in Maple Heights last month was committed by two youths:  a 12 and 13-year old.  Many of these teenagers are the ones behind the carjackings.  This becoming so commonplace.  I don't want to know what is going on in the heads of these kids.  I also wouldn't want to be a police officer making split-second decisions that involve these situations either.

 

Many of violent teens, especially the earlier teens, are not jailed.  When they are awaiting trial, they are kept under "house arrest".  There have been judges that will loosen restrictions if the teens basically "promise" to behave to let them go to school (like the ones who are committing carjackings are worried about missing school).  They use their new "freedom" to commit more crimes.  Sentences that amount to no more than scoldings or hand-slaps make it easy for these would be repeat offenders to do more of the same. 

Edited December 8, 20213 yr by LifeLongClevelander

Whoa!

 

And

 

Hopefully no injuries.

On 12/7/2021 at 9:26 PM, LifeLongClevelander said:

Probably all of that and more.  They are getting younger and younger.  Aren't even young enough to drive?  The killing of a 14-year old in Maple Heights last month was committed by two youths:  a 12 and 13-year old.  Many of these teenagers are the ones behind the carjackings.  This becoming so commonplace.  I don't want to know what is going on in the heads of these kids.  I also wouldn't want to be a police officer making split-second decisions that involve these situations either.

The upside (if there can possibly be one) to the last murder spree of the early 1990s was that almost an entire generation of major and minor thugs killed each other and twenty years of relative peace followed. Now another generation is growing up and I guess we need to learn that lesson over again.

Edited December 23, 20213 yr by Dougal

Suburban Cleveland homicides rose in 2021, data shows

 

CLEVELAND, Ohio – Suburban Cleveland homicides rose last year compared to 2020 and included incidents such as the beating death of a 5-year-old Parma boy, the killing of a bouncer and patron at a Parma bar, the shooting death of an 18-year-old man during an East Cleveland police chase and the first homicide in Broadview Heights since 1979.

 

As of late 2021, there were 71 homicides in the suburbs, according to statistics from the Cuyahoga County Medical Examiner. A total of 48 homicides were reported in the suburbs in 2020, the statistics shows.

 

https://www.cleveland.com/crime/2022/01/suburban-cleveland-homicides-up-this-year-from-2020-data-shows.html

On 12/7/2021 at 9:26 PM, LifeLongClevelander said:

Probably all of that and more.  They are getting younger and younger.  Aren't even young enough to drive?  The killing of a 14-year old in Maple Heights last month was committed by two youths:  a 12 and 13-year old.  Many of these teenagers are the ones behind the carjackings.  This becoming so commonplace.  I don't want to know what is going on in the heads of these kids.  I also wouldn't want to be a police officer making split-second decisions that involve these situations either.

 

Many of violent teens, especially the earlier teens, are not jailed.  When they are awaiting trial, they are kept under "house arrest".  There have been judges that will loosen restrictions if the teens basically "promise" to behave to let them go to school (like the ones who are committing carjackings are worried about missing school).  They use their new "freedom" to commit more crimes.  Sentences that amount to no more than scoldings or hand-slaps make it easy for these would be repeat offenders to do more of the same. 

 

The juvenile judges that allow this cannot be held accountable because records are sealed.   But the friends and relatives of the miscreants that do vote know who they are.

I have a friend who teaches at Milkovich Middle School in Maple Heights.   One of the kids who is accused of the murder threatened her life earlier on.   There was plenty of cause to confine him before this took place.

1 hour ago, Clefan98 said:

Suburban Cleveland homicides rose in 2021, data shows

 

CLEVELAND, Ohio – Suburban Cleveland homicides rose last year compared to 2020 and included incidents such as the beating death of a 5-year-old Parma boy, the killing of a bouncer and patron at a Parma bar, the shooting death of an 18-year-old man during an East Cleveland police chase and the first homicide in Broadview Heights since 1979.

 

As of late 2021, there were 71 homicides in the suburbs, according to statistics from the Cuyahoga County Medical Examiner. A total of 48 homicides were reported in the suburbs in 2020, the statistics shows.

 

https://www.cleveland.com/crime/2022/01/suburban-cleveland-homicides-up-this-year-from-2020-data-shows.html

 

The gangs operate out there too, as does the drug trade.   

40 minutes ago, E Rocc said:

 

The gangs operate out there too, as does the drug trade.   

Criminal activity knows no borders.  With the known lack of pursuit within Cleveland, the criminal elements have taken there activities beyond Cleveland's borders and have their escapes planned to get them "home free".  As for various suburban places that have seen increases in crime, drugs and homicides, if one didn't know where they were at, there is little differentiation between the crime-riddled neighborhoods of Cleveland and some of the suburbs.

22 minutes ago, LifeLongClevelander said:

Criminal activity knows no borders.  With the known lack of pursuit within Cleveland, the criminal elements have taken there activities beyond Cleveland's borders and have their escapes planned to get them "home free".  As for various suburban places that have seen increases in crime, drugs and homicides,

 

If your theory is true (hint: it isn't) why would anyone leave the city to commit a crime?

 

What logically makes sense is criminals living inside AND outside of the city limits are using the lack of pursuit within Cleveland to their advantage. A recent example of this is the suburban cop killing carjackers from two days ago.

 

It's time for suburbanites to realize that most of their issues are coming from their own backyards.

Edited January 2, 20223 yr by Clefan98

1 hour ago, Clefan98 said:

 

If your theory is true (hint: it isn't) why would anyone leave the city to commit a crime?

 

What logically makes sense is criminals living inside AND outside of the city limits are using the lack of pursuit within Cleveland to their advantage. A recent example of this is the suburban cop killing carjackers from two days ago.

 

It's time for suburbanites to realize that most of their issues are coming from their own backyards.

 

Because they believe they can hit targets outside the city and evade pursuit by getting back into the city, as he explained.

 

Felony and juvenile crime are countywide issues because they are tried at county courts.    At least with the former, the judges can theoretically be held accountable.

Edited January 2, 20223 yr by E Rocc

1 hour ago, Clefan98 said:

 

If your theory is true (hint: it isn't) why would anyone leave the city to commit a crime?

 

What logically makes sense is criminals living inside AND outside of the city limits are using the lack of pursuit within Cleveland to their advantage. A recent example of this is the suburban cop killing carjackers from two days ago.

 

It's time for suburbanites to realize that most of their issues are coming from their own backyards.

Then why do suburban police departments break off pursuit when the criminals cross over into Cleveland?  It is very well documented that that is STANDING suburban chase policy.  It has been stated that suburban and/or out-of-county police officers know very well that they will not get any support from CPD.  They are on their own on unfamiliar streets.  Only in rare instances do pursuits continue once they cross over into Cleveland.  It is also well documented the CPD is so short-staffed, they cannot even respond in a timely matter on most normal and/or minor calls.

 

Regarding criminals leaving the confines of Cleveland to commit their crimes, it just a matter of expanding their territories and perhaps getting better "pickings".  There are still many suburbanites who still feel safer in their communities, regardless of where the criminals originate from.  This plays a large part in the recent carjackings that has been happening in Lakewood near W. 117th Street.

 

As for your statement regarding the shooting of a CPD officer and the ensuing chase, that is such an exception, any reasonably thinking individual would know better than to make it.  When ANY law enforcement officer is shot, almost all rules are out the window.

 

The homicide rate within Cleveland in 2021 was 0.456 per 1000 residents.  In the suburbs it was 0.080 per 1000 residents.  Those numbers show the problems are much worse in Cleveland.

 

 

Edited January 2, 20223 yr by LifeLongClevelander

53 minutes ago, LifeLongClevelander said:

It is also well documented the CPD is so short-staffed, they cannot even respond in a timely matter on most normal and/or minor calls.

I get the sense that there is a lot of union foot dragging happening within the CPD ranks.   My interactions with officers on minor issues (like a neighbor's car getting hit while parked on the street) made it clear that they don't want to do any paperwork.   

 

In the CPD killing of Timothy Russel and Malissa Williams, a backfire mistaken a gunshot somehow led to 60 patrol cars in pursuit.  I found this fact astounding, thinking there wasn't even 60 patrol cars on the streets of Cleveland at any one time.  Where did they all come from?  

 

 

they weren't all cleveland cops

9 hours ago, Cleburger said:

I get the sense that there is a lot of union foot dragging happening within the CPD ranks.   My interactions with officers on minor issues (like a neighbor's car getting hit while parked on the street) made it clear that they don't want to do any paperwork.   

 

In the CPD killing of Timothy Russel and Malissa Williams, a backfire mistaken a gunshot somehow led to 60 patrol cars in pursuit.  I found this fact astounding, thinking there wasn't even 60 patrol cars on the streets of Cleveland at any one time.  Where did they all come from?  

 

 

We are super short staffed now. Back when that happened we had about 200 more officers on the road. And as the above said, it wasn't all Cleveland, and also I believe Detective cars were involved as well. 

10 hours ago, LifeLongClevelander said:

Then why do suburban police departments break off pursuit when the criminals cross over into Cleveland?  It is very well documented that that is STANDING suburban chase policy.  It has been stated that suburban and/or out-of-county police officers know very well that they will not get any support from CPD.  They are on their own on unfamiliar streets.  Only in rare instances do pursuits continue once they cross over into Cleveland.  It is also well documented the CPD is so short-staffed, they cannot even respond in a timely matter on most normal and/or minor calls.

 

Regarding criminals leaving the confines of Cleveland to commit their crimes, it just a matter of expanding their territories and perhaps getting better "pickings".  There are still many suburbanites who still feel safer in their communities, regardless of where the criminals originate from.  This plays a large part in the recent carjackings that has been happening in Lakewood near W. 117th Street.

 

As for your statement regarding the shooting of a CPD officer and the ensuing chase, that is such an exception, any reasonably thinking individual would know better than to make it.  When ANY law enforcement officer is shot, almost all rules are out the window.

 

The homicide rate within Cleveland in 2021 was 0.456 per 1000 residents.  In the suburbs it was 0.080 per 1000 residents.  Those numbers show the problems are much worse in Cleveland.

 

 

This is a fallacy. Suburban cars have full blown chases all the time in the fourth for things as simple as a traffic stop where the driver fled. We do assist them when it's a felony traffic stop  situation and we assist them in other ways too by being in the area and calling out directions without getting involved in the pursuit. But ya, we aren't going to get involved if it's a misdemeanor, risk doesn't equal the potential collateral. 

2 hours ago, KFM44107 said:

We are super short staffed now. Back when that happened we had about 200 more officers on the road. And as the above said, it wasn't all Cleveland, and also I believe Detective cars were involved as well. 

 

An old friend's husband was the dispatcher commander, I believe county sheriff and OHP got involved as well.    At least.

2 hours ago, KFM44107 said:

This is a fallacy. Suburban cars have full blown chases all the time in the fourth for things as simple as a traffic stop where the driver fled. We do assist them when it's a felony traffic stop  situation and we assist them in other ways too by being in the area and calling out directions without getting involved in the pursuit. But ya, we aren't going to get involved if it's a misdemeanor, risk doesn't equal the potential collateral. 

 

I know for a fact that Euclid will chase people into Cleveland.

2 hours ago, E Rocc said:

 

I know for a fact that Euclid will chase people into Cleveland.

Parma also.

5 hours ago, KFM44107 said:

We are super short staffed now. Back when that happened we had about 200 more officers on the road. And as the above said, it wasn't all Cleveland, and also I believe Detective cars were involved as well. 

I understand this is a problem with staffing, however, when the officers determine something is worthy of their attention, they seem to crawl out of the woodwork.   For us "regular citizens" in need, ehhh "take a number pal...we're too busy."    

 

This reminds me of an anecdotal incident.  Last summer there was a bad wreck on the Edgewater Parkway with a fatality.  There was no less than 12 zone cars blocking the westbound entrances (About 7 at Clifton and 5 at Lake Ave).   All the officers were parked in a row with their windows down talking to each other.   It may take me months to see 12 cars in my neighborhood in normal circumstances, but somehow 12 were available to block a road that could have been done with 2 cars?   I guess the weather was nice and these guys wanted to catch up on gossip.... 

4 hours ago, Cleburger said:

I understand this is a problem with staffing, however, when the officers determine something is worthy of their attention, they seem to crawl out of the woodwork.   For us "regular citizens" in need, ehhh "take a number pal...we're too busy."   

Imagine if they put forth the same energy they did on new year's for every car jacking and shooting, not just one involving an off duty officer.

11 hours ago, KFM44107 said:

This is a fallacy. Suburban cars have full blown chases all the time in the fourth for things as simple as a traffic stop where the driver fled. We do assist them when it's a felony traffic stop  situation and we assist them in other ways too by being in the area and calling out directions without getting involved in the pursuit. But ya, we aren't going to get involved if it's a misdemeanor, risk doesn't equal the potential collateral. 

Well, there have been numerous media reports that taint the situation on chases.  Perhaps it is an attempt to shift the blame and that is unfortunate that they are casting blame on CPD when they shouldn't.

2 hours ago, originaljbw said:

Imagine if they put forth the same energy they did on new year's for every car jacking and shooting, not just one involving an off duty officer.

Well if we had citizens who actually provided us with good Intel instead of always going, I didn't see anything (when I can hear you talking on the phone in the corner to your buddy about jumping said suspect later) we could put in effort on every run. Unless we have cameras and a willing victim it's tough. Trust me. If someone gives us a good lead every available officer is following that lead. Usually it's the victim screaming at me to solve the crime but not providing any info. We do solve crimes at the zone car level more than you would imagine, just doesn't make a good media story. 

 

I had a really good GTMV recovery last week because the guy had his iphone in the car, knew who took it and knew were they hung out. Unfortunately said suspect wasn't in the car at time of recovery but we got the car back in like fifteen minutes. 

 

Only reason we had so much luck with Bartek was one, the chopper was up because of the Cavs game, it's usually never up. Two because his phone was in the car which usually the suspect is smart and tosses that out, and three other fellow officers were sharing their location with him on Google maps. We were also lucky enough to know that it was his car because an officer who was in my class identified it on camera and we keep all of our license plates on file at the district. 

 

And ya, he's one of us. So every blue moon when someone decides to kill an officer we go full stop and find them because I think you could imagine how emboldened people would get if they could just kill police at will. And because it happens so infrequently it's easier to put resources to it. 

 

I think in your head you just picture all these Cleveland patrol cars ignoring runs to go look for this guy. In reality specialized units who were doing targeted crime enforcement in areas I won't name shifted their priority to finding that guy.  Once they spotted the car in the fourth anyone not on priorities looked for it. Then the suburbs found it ten minutes later and we'll we all know they've got nothing going on and they knew they had free reign to chase and a Cleveland chopper assisting so they cornered it in Euclid (by the way Orange called off their pursuit). 

 

It took like ten minutes after the suspect was apprehended for the first Cleveland car to show up, which was an undercover. A few marked fifth district cars showed up. Otherwise it was all suburbs or specialized units. 

 

Edit: Ignore my grammar mistakes I'm typing this on my phone. 

Edited January 3, 20223 yr by KFM44107

6 hours ago, Cleburger said:

I understand this is a problem with staffing, however, when the officers determine something is worthy of their attention, they seem to crawl out of the woodwork.   For us "regular citizens" in need, ehhh "take a number pal...we're too busy."    

 

This reminds me of an anecdotal incident.  Last summer there was a bad wreck on the Edgewater Parkway with a fatality.  There was no less than 12 zone cars blocking the westbound entrances (About 7 at Clifton and 5 at Lake Ave).   All the officers were parked in a row with their windows down talking to each other.   It may take me months to see 12 cars in my neighborhood in normal circumstances, but somehow 12 were available to block a road that could have been done with 2 cars?   I guess the weather was nice and these guys wanted to catch up on gossip.... 

I made a super long reply to this but for some reason it didn't post. Long story short is on fatalities we stack officers because alot of times families or friends show up in crowd like situations in a highly emotional state. People try to contaminate the scene in their anguish and alot of times fights break out. One time I had a guy shoot off a gun into the air and drive away after we kicked him off the scene. So ya we usually overreact to these and look funny with a ton of officers. 

 

Also one man cars who only respond to accidents and report runs with no suspect on scene usually do the tows and block traffic. If nothing is going on they typically coagulate to the scene.

14 minutes ago, KFM44107 said:

I made a super long reply to this but for some reason it didn't post. Long story short is on fatalities we stack officers because alot of times families or friends show up in crowd like situations in a highly emotional state. People try to contaminate the scene in their anguish and alot of times fights break out. One time I had a guy shoot off a gun into the air and drive away after we kicked him off the scene. So ya we usually overreact to these and look funny with a ton of officers. 

 

Also one man cars who only respond to accidents and report runs with no suspect on scene usually do the tows and block traffic. If nothing is going on they typically coagulate to the scene.

Thank you for your informed responses on these posts.    I don't want to come off as anti-police, because I'm not.  I'm just part of the frustrated citizenry caught up in the politics vs reality of the situation.  

34 minutes ago, Cleburger said:

Thank you for your informed responses on these posts.    I don't want to come off as anti-police, because I'm not.  I'm just part of the frustrated citizenry caught up in the politics vs reality of the situation.  

It's all good. Sometimes I sit here and overreact in my head to people's replies but then I remember that I was just a normal citizen like you two years ago who had the same thoughts and questions about policing. I wasn't some police die hard. In fact it was kind of the opposite, which is why I joined. 

 

In fact, the first dead body scene I went to I thought the same thing, why are there a million officers here? Ten minutes later when a family fight broke out on scene I figured it out. 

 

Two years later I realize there's alot of things wrong with the job, but most of the reasons aren't what I thought they were prior to joining.

 

 

Edited January 3, 20223 yr by KFM44107

19 minutes ago, KFM44107 said:

Two years later I realize there's alot of things wrong with the job, but most of the reasons aren't what I thought they were prior to joining.

Would love to hear about it--probably needs it's own thread though!  

3 hours ago, Cleburger said:

Would love to hear about it--probably needs it's own thread though!  

One day I'll write a book. Haha. 

13 hours ago, KFM44107 said:

It's all good. Sometimes I sit here and overreact in my head to people's replies but then I remember that I was just a normal citizen like you two years ago who had the same thoughts and questions about policing. I wasn't some police die hard. In fact it was kind of the opposite, which is why I joined. 

 

In fact, the first dead body scene I went to I thought the same thing, why are there a million officers here? Ten minutes later when a family fight broke out on scene I figured it out. 

 

Two years later I realize there's alot of things wrong with the job, but most of the reasons aren't what I thought they were prior to joining.

 

 

 

One of the frustrations on here in the past was if we had any LEOs, either active duty or retired, they were lurkers or incognito.  So there was no one to speak of the role in practical terms.  I know a little from all those years of bouncing, more than most people I suspect.   But it's enough to know what I don't know, really.   We had a good relationship with Bedford PD and could always call on them if needed without askance.

I'm seeing more and more posts like the below from my suburban friends. My buddy had his house broken into two nights ago. They found his car keys and stole it right out of his garage. This happened in Streetsboro, at night, while they were asleep. Scary stuff. 

Woman shot dead in McDonald’s parking lot in Sheffield Village, police say
 

https://www.cleveland.com/crime/2022/01/woman-shot-dead-in-mcdonalds-parking-lot-in-sheffield-village-police-say.html

10 hours ago, Clefan98 said:

Woman shot dead in McDonald’s parking lot in Sheffield Village, police say
 

https://www.cleveland.com/crime/2022/01/woman-shot-dead-in-mcdonalds-parking-lot-in-sheffield-village-police-say.html

It's been a bad time to be grabbing fast food in the burbs!  

 

Woman shot near drive-thru of Elyria Taco Bell: police

ELYRIA, Ohio (WJW) — Police in Elyria are investigating a shooting that happened near the drive-thru of a Taco Bell restaurant.

According to a release from police, on Wednesday at about 10:21 p.m., officers responded to the area of Taco Bell — located at 117 West Ave. — for a report of shots fired.

 

https://fox8.com/news/woman-shot-near-drive-thru-of-elyria-taco-bell-police/

That's the Taco Bell in downtown Elyria, so not really the suburbs.

1 hour ago, Cleburger said:

It's been a bad time to be grabbing fast food in the burbs!  

 

Woman shot near drive-thru of Elyria Taco Bell: police

ELYRIA, Ohio (WJW) — Police in Elyria are investigating a shooting that happened near the drive-thru of a Taco Bell restaurant.

According to a release from police, on Wednesday at about 10:21 p.m., officers responded to the area of Taco Bell — located at 117 West Ave. — for a report of shots fired.

 

https://fox8.com/news/woman-shot-near-drive-thru-of-elyria-taco-bell-police/

 

There's speculation that the two Lorain County shootings may be connected.

It is hilarious to me that Hudson has such an insane mayor.

 

https://www.cleveland.com/news/2022/02/hudson-mayor-suggests-ice-fishing-could-lead-to-prostitution-in-ice-shanties.html

HUDSON, Ohio -- Hudson Mayor Craig Shubert, whose baseless claims that school board members were peddling child pornography led to a rebuke from the Summit County prosecutor, is now garnering attention for suggesting ice fishing in the city could lead to prostitution.

I always wondered why in the world anyone would want to go ice fishing.... 😜

Guaranteed that imbecile has particular images and videos on his phone and computer. We all know those venomous types. 

7 hours ago, StapHanger said:

It is hilarious to me that Hudson has such an insane mayor.

 

https://www.cleveland.com/news/2022/02/hudson-mayor-suggests-ice-fishing-could-lead-to-prostitution-in-ice-shanties.html

HUDSON, Ohio -- Hudson Mayor Craig Shubert, whose baseless claims that school board members were peddling child pornography led to a rebuke from the Summit County prosecutor, is now garnering attention for suggesting ice fishing in the city could lead to prostitution.

It appears that Hudson's mayor started making these crazy comments within the last few months.  All joking aside, there may be a serious medical issue going on.  Family members need to get him evaluated to see if there is something going on that is triggering these comments.  For him, it may not be a laughing matter.

7 hours ago, LifeLongClevelander said:

It appears that Hudson's mayor started making these crazy comments within the last few months.  All joking aside, there may be a serious medical issue going on.  Family members need to get him evaluated to see if there is something going on that is triggering these comments.  For him, it may not be a laughing matter.

Or he's just cut from the same cloth as  bozo the trumper. 

41 minutes ago, Clefan98 said:

Or he's just cut from the same cloth as  bozo the trumper. 

Trump has a very long history of making outlandish statements.  If Hudson's mayor had no history of making bizarre and wacky statements until recently, then all of sudden he began making them, it shows something may have changed.  Only the people around him really know if these are new a new trend or not.   

11 minutes ago, LifeLongClevelander said:

.  If Hudson's mayor had no history of making bizarre and wacky statements until recently, then all of sudden he began making them, it shows something may have changed.  Only the people around him really know if these are new a new trend or not.   

Hudson’s mayor has an extended history of making whacky comments. Unfortunately this latest comment isn’t particularly surprising despite its impressive stupidity.

22 minutes ago, LifeLongClevelander said:

Only the people around him really know if these are new a new trend or not.   

Right...so why are you speculating then? 

9 hours ago, LifeLongClevelander said:

It appears that Hudson's mayor started making these crazy comments within the last few months.  All joking aside, there may be a serious medical issue going on.  Family members need to get him evaluated to see if there is something going on that is triggering these comments.  For him, it may not be a laughing matter.

 

It should be noted that, like most well run cities, Hudson has a city manager form of government and the mayor has primarily a ceremonial role.

17 minutes ago, Clefan98 said:

Right...so why are you speculating then? 

Just like others feel free to call him a nut job and compare him to Trump.  Why is it okay to refer to him in that matter, but not okay to question if there is something physically wrong?  If that has been his personality all along, then so be it.  If not, then it isn't "hilarious".  

1 minute ago, LifeLongClevelander said:

  If that has been his personality all along, then so be it.

 

Boom. No need for you to comment any further on this matter.

14 minutes ago, E Rocc said:

 

It should be noted that, like most well run cities

 

Hudson's an absolute mess right now, but go on...

 

https://www.beaconjournal.com/story/news/local/2022/02/07/hudson-council-meet-discuss-suspension-city-manager/6696255001/

 

 

https://www.thedailybeast.com/hudson-ohio-mayor-craig-shuberts-deluded-crusade-against-child-porn-in-classrooms-unravels

 

If this shanty is a rockin' don't come a knockin'!

35 minutes ago, Clefan98 said:

 

Boom. No need for you to comment any further on this matter.

And neither should you.

23 minutes ago, LifeLongClevelander said:

And neither should you.

 

It's all fun and games until it's a conservative, white boomer...amirite?

 

Edited February 10, 20223 yr by Clefan98

The ice shanty must be getting some national play...and I imagine not in a good way.  I woke up this morning to a text from a buddy of mine in Denver basically mocking Ohio in general.