14 minutes ago, JaceTheAce41 said:

1. Why is having a turnaround at Findlay, Race, Elder block so bad? With signal priority it shouldn't be a big deal and you can share the Findlay Market station. 

 

Are you thinking Vine Street would be a separate route?  I suppose whether it's separate or just an extension of the loop it's still going to be confusing since there will be streetcars going in the same direction at Race/Findlay Market that will either continue south or turn and head north up Vine.  Regardless, the Elm/Henry/Race/Elder/Vine route is a big time suck going northbound, more so if you have to transfer at Race/Findlay Market.  If you're just going from Music Hall to UC that's one thing, but I'm thinking downtown or The Banks to UC and I would find that very frustrating. 

The original plan is that it would be a single route. This would allow a 1-seat ride from The Banks to UC, or UC to The Banks. The only "confusing" thing would be that people would need to pay attention when they're boarding at the Findlay Market-Race stop. They would need to check whether it's a UC-bound or Banks-bound streetcar, which shouldn't be that confusing to anyone with experience riding transit.

The March 2017 study did consider the possibility of putting both directions on Findlay Street which would have eliminated the detour to Henry Street.

24 minutes ago, jjakucyk said:

 

Are you thinking Vine Street would be a separate route?  I suppose whether it's separate or just an extension of the loop it's still going to be confusing since there will be streetcars going in the same direction at Race/Findlay Market that will either continue south or turn and head north up Vine.  Regardless, the Elm/Henry/Race/Elder/Vine route is a big time suck going northbound, more so if you have to transfer at Race/Findlay Market.  If you're just going from Music Hall to UC that's one thing, but I'm thinking downtown or The Banks to UC and I would find that very frustrating. 

 

If it were me, I'd have two different routes. The uptown streetcar and the downtown streetcar. It wouldn't be too confusing for passengers and if you had short headways between streetcars it wouldn't be too much of a problem waiting for another streetcar.

9 minutes ago, JaceTheAce41 said:

 

If it were me, I'd have two different routes. The uptown streetcar and the downtown streetcar. It wouldn't be too confusing for passengers and if you had short headways between streetcars it wouldn't be too much of a problem waiting for another streetcar.

The issue there is that with the exception of people getting off at Findlay Market, you're basically asking everyone taking the streetcar from Uptown to Downtown to transfer. One seat rides are way more accessible to people, especially in a city where taking transit isn't second nature to most people (yet).

 

It should be two routes, one that's the current loop and one that does the current loop + Uptown. That way there's higher headway in the current loop which is great for free movement Downtown and in OTR, and the lower demand route to Uptown has dedicated one seat rides.

Edited December 16, 20204 yr by jmicha

1 hour ago, jmicha said:

The issue there is that with the exception of people getting off at Findlay Market, you're basically asking everyone taking the streetcar from Uptown to Downtown to transfer. One seat rides are way more accessible to people, especially in a city where taking transit isn't second nature to most people (yet).

 

It should be two routes, one that's the current loop and one that does the current loop + Uptown. That way there's higher headway in the current loop which is great for free movement Downtown and in OTR, and the lower demand route to Uptown has dedicated one seat rides.

Or just do a gondola from Findlay Playground to Classen Park.

 

If you do a relatively slow (would be 4 minutes travel time in the air), cheap 15 person gondola but run them on 1-2 minute headways you could still be competitive. Would also be a tourist attraction and a huge boost for cycling, you could essentially eliminate the hill between UC and downtown and "flatten" the city. 

 

If you could do that for $35m, you might have a decent project you could build quickly with only local funds. 

^and say you're "restoring the inclines" if this one is successful add another to Price Hill and Mt. Adams or to Newport from the Banks

22 hours ago, jjakucyk said:

 

Are you thinking Vine Street would be a separate route?  I suppose whether it's separate or just an extension of the loop it's still going to be confusing since there will be streetcars going in the same direction at Race/Findlay Market that will either continue south or turn and head north up Vine.  Regardless, the Elm/Henry/Race/Elder/Vine route is a big time suck going northbound, more so if you have to transfer at Race/Findlay Market.  If you're just going from Music Hall to UC that's one thing, but I'm thinking downtown or The Banks to UC and I would find that very frustrating. 

 

This drawing needs a second circle on 12th between Vine and Elm.  That's an additional 900 feet of track that isn't heading toward UC. 

 

It's not just that the streetcars will have to turn south to eventually go north.  They will first travel 2 blocks west and then 1 block east before then going 2 blocks south and another block east before turning north approximately 1,000 feet south of where they turned south. 

 

As I already mentioned, it's not possible for "the" streetcar to have priority at 12th & Race, since the two directions meet there in a cross.  If signals are prioritized, who gets the priority?  Then the route ends up crossing itself again, with the exact same problem a second time, if there is a branch built at Liberty, Green, or Findlay to head over to Vine and avoid the southward movement. 

 

 

34 minutes ago, jmecklenborg said:

This drawing needs a second circle on 12th between Vine and Elm.  That's an additional 900 feet of track that isn't heading toward UC. 

 

I don't follow.  Those are just fit points to force the route. 

22 minutes ago, jjakucyk said:

 

I don't follow.  Those are just fit points to force the route. 

 

The southward movement on Race is more mentally egregious, but the east/west lateral movements on 12th, Henry, and Elder are still adding route distance and little in the way of ridership that the line wouldn't attract if it took a more direct route. 

 

I still think the whole idea of traveling through the 5-points intersection is a bad one because the thing is much slower today than it was before Vine St. was turned 2-way.  There is no way to prioritize streetcars AND buses because buses are traveling through the intersection in all directions. 

Sure there is a way to prioritize the streetcar and/or busses. You just have to give the streetcar a dedicated signal at that intersection.

I like how everything is way too complicated for Cincinnati. 

33 minutes ago, JaceTheAce41 said:

Sure there is a way to prioritize the streetcar and/or busses. You just have to give the streetcar a dedicated signal at that intersection.

I like how everything is way too complicated for Cincinnati. 

Make a transit-only lane on Vine that is shared by both busses and the streetcar. The timing would be complicated but it can be done. It can be bi-directional if you get rid of street parking, though of course that's probably not politically feasible.

It's not a hard technical problem to solve. We just need to get rid of the dinosaurs at DOTE who don't believe in prioritizing transit vehicles and get some city leadership that wants to do it.

^The situation would be simplified if southbound bus routes all continued south on Vine and then diverged to Race/Walnut at Liberty.  That way a "transit" phase in the lights would allow all buses or streetcars to travel through the intersection, albeit not on the routes that some currently use.  

 

The Vine/Clifton interchange would need to be interlocked to maximize the benefit. 

Each streetcar that's running right now is showing up twice in the Transit app. This happens all the time. Apparently this is because TransDev has left both transmitters (the one at the front and back of each streetcar) turned on. It's just so disappointing that such basic problems are still occurring with this system. Maybe our next Mayor and City Manager will hire a Streetcar CEO who cares about the streetcar.

 

 

I didn't know we had three-block-long streetcars.  Talk about capacity!  

So far in January, ridership is down -23% which is likely best in the country for non-legacy streetcar systems. Ridership per hour of operations is up 5%. Ridership per hour is up every single weekday.

 

*Note- All ridership comparisons are made to the same day of the week as the previous year except New Years, which is compared to the New Years of the previous year. 

 

Still performing the best out of the country's new streetcar systems in terms of percentage of pre-pandemic ridership retained. November is the most recent data in the FTA's National Transit Database. 

 

Were there any problems with the streetcar in this morning's ice?

 

Police shut down the Vine and W. Clifton hills.  I assume that the #31 was also diverted as the McMillan hill between Central Parkway and Hughes High School was closed.  I have no idea where the buses were diverted to, but no doubt some people aren't getting to work this morning.  

 

Weather events like this highlight why a streetcar expansion going uptown on a surface street is a risky proposition and why a bored tunnel would be transformative so far as speed AND reliability in poor weather.  

Thing is this wasn't a "weather event" in the sense of something unexpected or severe.  it's a minor 1-inch snowfall.  The city just didn't do anything.  No pre-treatment that I could see, and many streets haven't been touched more than 12 hours later.  It's like they didn't think they needed to roll any trucks because...reasons?  

On 1/28/2021 at 9:12 AM, jjakucyk said:

Thing is this wasn't a "weather event" in the sense of something unexpected or severe.  it's a minor 1-inch snowfall.  The city just didn't do anything.  No pre-treatment that I could see, and many streets haven't been touched more than 12 hours later.  It's like they didn't think they needed to roll any trucks because...reasons?  

https://public.tableau.com/profile/cincystat#!/vizhome/SnowVehicles/SnowPlowTrackerLive The tracking website shutdown on Wednesday night because... they didn't want people to see that no one was plowing all night.

 

Also all our cities salt was dumped on police officers: https://local12.com/news/local/cincinnati-salt-truck-driver-accused-of-dumping-salt-on-officers-leading-them-on-a-chase-reading-omar-armstrong-springfield-township

He's probably going to go to jail for years because it was a police officer (rightfully so). But someone who intentionally runs over a protester often gets away with murder because we don't want to punish drivers.

The guy has a mile-long rap sheet in Hamilton County alone, including a dozen or so traffic violations and a history of license suspension. Why'd the city give someone with such a poor driving record a job driving a truck?

On 1/29/2021 at 11:39 AM, ryanlammi said:

He's probably going to go to jail for years because it was a police officer (rightfully so). But someone who intentionally runs over a protester often gets away with murder because we don't want to punish drivers.

 

Defund snow plows.  We should have mental health professionals responding to snowfall.   

39 minutes ago, Ram23 said:

The guy has a mile-long rap sheet in Hamilton County alone, including a dozen or so traffic violations and a history of license suspension. Why'd the city give someone with such a poor driving record a job driving a truck?

 

I just looked him up.  Ho-lay.  Dozens and dozens of charges. Assault, menacing, domestic violence, trespassing, one traffic violation after another, even what appears to be jaywalking. 

8 hours ago, Ram23 said:

The guy has a mile-long rap sheet in Hamilton County alone, including a dozen or so traffic violations and a history of license suspension. Why'd the city give someone with such a poor driving record a job driving a truck?

Really?? Greg Landsman said that all of the city's public employees are the best in class and the best and brightest!! I cant see how that could ever happen since you know the city only hires the best and brightest. 

On 1/28/2021 at 9:12 AM, jjakucyk said:

Thing is this wasn't a "weather event" in the sense of something unexpected or severe.  it's a minor 1-inch snowfall.  The city just didn't do anything.  No pre-treatment that I could see, and many streets haven't been touched more than 12 hours later.  It's like they didn't think they needed to roll any trucks because...reasons?  

 

Wasn't there an article (Enquirer?) that noted half of the snow plow drivers are out sick or in quarantine?

11 hours ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

Greg Landsman said that all of the city's public employees are the best in class and the best and brightest!! I cant see how that could ever happen since you know the city only hires the best and brightest. 

I'm not sure what your policy suggestion is (increase funding for snow removal to hire better drivers? decrease funding?), but this line of argument seems based on the political tactic of reducing government funding -> complaining about poor services --> using poor service quality to justify additional cuts. I don't know the details of about how much we spend on snow removal, and if we are doing a "good" or "bad" job relative to other cities with similar size and climate. I'm not going to opine about whether we should spend MORE on snow removal (in which case the City could be more picky about who they hire) or less (in which case we hire less qualified workers). 

4 hours ago, jwulsin said:

I'm not sure what your policy suggestion is (increase funding for snow removal to hire better drivers? decrease funding?), but this line of argument seems based on the political tactic of reducing government funding -> complaining about poor services --> using poor service quality to justify additional cuts. I don't know the details of about how much we spend on snow removal, and if we are doing a "good" or "bad" job relative to other cities with similar size and climate. I'm not going to opine about whether we should spend MORE on snow removal (in which case the City could be more picky about who they hire) or less (in which case we hire less qualified workers). 

It was less about policy and doing anything, it was more about just moronic politicians throwing around stupid platitudes even in the case of glaring evidence to the contrary. It was about poking Landsman for saying something stupid that was all.  Sometimes mistakes happen in the process and things will slip through the cracks. In Landsmans case, it is ok to own it and not try and sugar coat over it by making an idiotic platitude about the quality of city worker.  

1 hour ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

It was less about policy and doing anything, it was more about just moronic politicians throwing around stupid platitudes even in the case of glaring evidence to the contrary. It was about poking Landsman for saying something stupid that was all.  Sometimes mistakes happen in the process and things will slip through the cracks. In Landsmans case, it is ok to own it and not try and sugar coat over it by making an idiotic platitude about the quality of city worker.  

 

This explains why you're always attacking politicians for calling the NYPD "New York's Finest".

31 minutes ago, ryanlammi said:

 

This explains why you're always attacking politicians for calling the NYPD "New York's Finest".

 

A municipal snow plow operator is a bouncer who works 10 events a year as compared to a full-time police officer.  

Final numbers in for January, overall ridership was down 19.7% which is likely the best in the country in terms of percentage of ridership retained from the previous year.

 

Ridership per hour of operation was 4% higher in 2021 compared to 2020. 

 

Ridership was higher per hour of operation on every single weekday and 25 of 31 total days. 

 

Fourth consecutive year of increased ridership per hour of operation for January. 

Edited February 2, 20214 yr by thomasbw
forgot description of chart

16 hours ago, ryanlammi said:

 

This explains why you're always attacking politicians for calling the NYPD "New York's Finest".

@ryanlammi it is the cynic in me. Many times, politicians just like to hear themselves talk. they will say anything and come out looking like an idiot in the process. This is one of those examples. Sometimes, you can knock the employee without knocking the whole organization. Does what happened mean the process is broken and needs a thorough 12 step review and open plan to make sure it does not happen again, OF COURSE NOT. Chalk this up to a bad egg getting in there and causing trouble. If it happens regularly, then you may have a process problem. This could happen to anyone. Landsman, just sounded ridiculous with his comment. Nothing against him personally or even politically. 

19 hours ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

It was less about policy and doing anything, it was more about just moronic politicians throwing around stupid platitudes even in the case of glaring evidence to the contrary. It was about poking Landsman for saying something stupid that was all.  Sometimes mistakes happen in the process and things will slip through the cracks. In Landsmans case, it is ok to own it and not try and sugar coat over it by making an idiotic platitude about the quality of city worker.  

Ok, thanks for clarifying. Across the political spectrum, public officials always speak in broad, general statements to praise public employees, even when they know there may be some bad apples. 

20 hours ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

It was less about policy and doing anything, it was more about just moronic politicians throwing around stupid platitudes even in the case of glaring evidence to the contrary.

 

A city council member complimented city workers. What a scandal!

3 hours ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

Many times, politicians just like to hear themselves talk. they will say anything and come out looking like an idiot in the process. 

Hmm.

1 hour ago, DEPACincy said:

 

A city council member complimented city workers. What a scandal!

Who said it was a scandal, those are your words. I just was pointing out a dumb statement by a politician. That is all it was. It is not like he is as bad as Chris Seelbach. Landsman just said something dumb. 

The Elm & Liberty apartment complex news, instead of being a celebration of the fact that the streetcar motivated a very large project on long-empty land along its route, and that the developer will pay a large sum of money directly to streetcar operations, was instead turned into a round of streetcar bashing by 700WLW.  Yesterday I heard a lengthy streetcar rant on the Scott Sloan show and then this morning Mike McConnell went on a 2-3 minute tangent.  I assume that Cunningham took a break from supporting Marjorie Taylor Greene at some point to bash the streetcar but I don't listen to the station 24/7.  

 

 

February data is in. Down 22% compared to 2020 (likely the smallest drop in the country) up 3% per hour, second consecutive month where ridership is up per hour

 

Now that the streetcar is fare free, the City needs to use that in their marketing. For example, something like this.

Cincinnati Bell Ridership per service hour is up 10% in January 2021 compared to January 2020. 

 

 

And the lowest overall ridership drop in the country among new streetcar systems. 

March is off to a great start- 

 

Streetcar boardings by hour and day. We're leaving a lot of ridership on the table on the weekends-

 

Ridership is trending in a positive direction. I could see overall ridership higher than pre-pandemic in April or May. 

33 minutes ago, thomasbw said:

Ridership is trending in a positive direction. I could see overall ridership higher than pre-pandemic in April or May. 

The fact that we are running up the score on weekdays since it has gone fare-free makes me think that there's a ridership boom waiting to happen when we actually have an office worker population downtown again.  It must be a popular option among those that are working downtown now.

Overall activity in OTR has been up in the past few weeks as the weather has gotten a bit warmer. Add that in to more people being vaccinated, FC Cincinnati and Reds games starting soon, and other outdoor events in Washington Park, etc. The streetcar will be breaking ridership records in no time.

All time ridership records by month

 

March-37,471. 

April - 49,996

May- 53,116

June- 61,326

July- 62,916

August- 55,049

Streetcar ridership for the first three weeks of March in 2021- 21,921. First three weeks in 2019- 21,227