An interesting letter to the editor in this mornings' Cincy Enquirer.  I think it illustrates that even among those of us who favor rail, there is a decided disconnect over modern streetcars versus what was in the past.  It also shows the failure to recognize that no one rail-based system is meant to stand alone, but rether can be the spark that grows a larger, more integrated system.  A downtown streetcar can be the "seed" that germinates the idea that a larger light rail system is needed and that it should also connect into an even larger system of commuter and intercity passenger rail.

 

Streetcars should be part of regional link

 

In "Cincinnati may get streetcars back" (Feb. 22), what in the world is our city thinking, not to mention the state of Ohio, if they allow the city to go through with it? Streetcars are not the answer to our transportation problem, especially since it won't help our city connect regionally. A rail system is the way to go.

 

I've heard comments saying that Seattle has a great public transportation with streetcars. However, they also have a light rail, commuter rail, and the first fully-operational monorail system in the country. They have a great transportation system because of rail lines since they connect the region, not just the city.

 

Cincinnati needs to get with the future, not the past. Streetcars don't need to come back to Cincinnati, a light rail system needs to get Cincinnati into the future.

 

Mark Altherr

 

Delhi Township

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070302/EDIT0202/703020337/1022/EDIT01

 

^He does have a point... Toronto has streetcars AND a subway.  San Fran has streetcars AND a subway AND light rail AND commuter rail.  Streetcars to be most effective as anything more than a mere novelty have the be intergrated with a more comprehensive network.  Alone they are a bit too limited to be the backbone of a transportation system.  One could argue that buses would get people to the streetcars... but does anyone really buy that people will take the BUS? 

This is all true, but you have to start somewhere on developing the system...and this is the easiest/least resistance route to take.  We have not forgotten about light rail, but the county citizens voted it down.  By building a streetcar system you can familiarize the public with rail transit.  That will help tremendously with light rail down the road.

The Stakeholder Working Group of the Cincinnati Streetcar Feasibility Study -- that's the exact title -- met for the first time at City Hall on Tuesday afternoon, and the meeting was heavily attended. It might be the most diverse group of people I've ever seen in one of these corridor studies -- definitely not the same old suspects involved. The presentation put on by the city staff and the consultants was first-rate, and the questions and answers were penetrating. There was a healthy amount of respectable debate. The process is off to a good start, and recommendations will be out in early May.

 

Here's the gist of what I learned:

 

* This won't go to Uptown or east or west from downtown in the first phase. They're going to recommend an initial segment bounded by McMicken on the north and I-75 and I-71 on the west and east.

 

* Everyone seem to accept the consultants' recommendation that the alignment use a couplet, i.e. run on parallel streets one block apart. Everyone seemed to understand the the system has to be legible.

 

* There was no interest in anything but a fixed rail system -- no gussied-up buses or anything like that.

 

* There was strong consensus that the route use Elm and Race to Findlay Market north of Central Parkway. In fact, there was no dispute by anyone in the room that Findlay Market should be the northern destination.

 

* Surprisingly, there wasn't much sentiment to continue south on Elm and Race to serve the Convention Center and the hotels. The director of the Convention and Visitors Bureau said that he didn't think tourists were the primary market, and that they wouldn't mind walking east if they wanted to use the streetcar.

 

* I made the point that connecting to the office core was essential because downtown workers are the most likely suspects to repopulate Over-the-Rhine. They have purchasing power, and they are downtown already -- they don't need to be sold on the prospect of urban living so much. They are the ones who might be willing to live in buildings there that don't have, nor ever will have parking. But they might live there anyway if they had frequent service to where they work. Plus a lot of them already have parking at work, and they could leave their cars there and drive them home on the nights they needed them. I said that a systematic solution to the permanent non-availability of parking in OTR is essential if that community is to succeed. Counterintuitive as this is, people seemed to accept the logic.

 

* There were about a hundred different opinions of where and why the streetcar should on different streets south of Central Parkway on the east side of downtown. The consultants recommended that it use Main Street as the northbound leg of the couplet. Quickly, the discussion focused on Vine Street as the symbolic heart of the city with the new Fountain Square the keystone of that. One person suggested banning cars from Vine Street and running the streetcar there, but that idea didn't get any traction.

 

* Using Sycamore Street as the southbound leg seemed to be a little out of the swim of things -- too far east -- so attention turned to Walnut as a possibility. It borders Fountain Square and several attractions like the Aronoff and the Public Library, and it is tangent to Government Square for people transferring to buses.

 

* The group was mixed with respect to whether the line actually had to cross south of Third into The Banks. Interestingly, the Cincinnati Reds spoke up in favor of this idea. One problem is that game day traffic will shut down the streetcar near the Great American Ball Park -- it won't be able to keep schedule working its way through game-day crowds. A consultant noted that the streetcar will only carry maybe 100 people, so that it really won't move than many people to and from the game. So service into The Banks was kind of left dangling for the next meeting; they seemed to want to think more about it. The consultants did note that the Walnut and Main Street bridges over Fort Washington Way were designed in 1998 to carry light rail, and that the ramp from Second Street to Broadway is also designed to carry light rail, so using Walnut and Main to get to Newport and Eastern Avenue seems to work.

 

It was probably the best first meeting I've ever attended on a transportation project, and I've attended just about all of them over the years. The group meets again in a couple of weeks.

 

This project has strong momentum. There's just a lot of will to get it done and not waste years talking about it. You should thank Chris Bortz for his leadership on this. He is the person who is making it happen. More later.

 

 

* This won't go to Uptown or east or west from downtown in the first phase. They're going to recommend an initial segment bounded by McMicken on the north and I-75 and I-71 on the west and east.

 

What are the longer term plans to expand the system, up the hill to UC?

 

*  There was no interest in anything but a fixed rail system -- no gussied-up buses or anything like that.

 

thank god.

 

* Using Sycamore Street as the southbound leg seemed to be a little out of the swim of things -- too far east -- so attention turned to Walnut as a possibility. It borders Fountain Square and several attractions like the Aronoff and the Public Library, and it is tangent to Government Square for people transferring to buses.

 

 

Is there any way to run the streetcar on the left side of the street?  that would prevent it from conflicting with the busses too much.  (since the cars are essentially custom built I would say it is possible, but traffic engineering won't allow it.

 

 

What are the longer term plans to expand the system, up the hill to UC?

 

Is there any way to run the streetcar on the left side of the street?  that would prevent it from conflicting with the busses too much.  (since the cars are essentially custom built I would say it is possible, but traffic engineering won't allow it.

 

I think -- and this is only my opinion based on bits and pieces I've heard -- that they want to serve the Calhoun/McMillan pair next, perhaps as a way to decrease the parking burden on the new condos there. They prefer to use Vine to get there, but they really need to figure out a way to get up Clifton with the larger streetcars. I'm sure they will be taking another look at this. The gain for Clifton Heights would be huge, and the loss for Vine Street would be nil.

 

Modern streetcars have three doors on each side, and they can dock on either side of the street. This is a huge advantage over buses. I doubt the traffic engineers would have a problem with this. In fact, it might reduce conflicts with buses.

Like Thomas, the idea of not laying the first track to Uptown is a little disappointing. As a used to be downtown resident, that would be a huge draw for me to invest my $ into downtown as a place to live.

Thanks for the update John. Good to hear that Findlay is the clear choice for the northern destination. I don't think that Vine is a good choice for the streetcar northbound. Main seems like a better fit and it's relatively uncongested.

 

thomasbw, do you mean running on the left side down Walnut? I can guess that traffic guys aren't going to want to have any more interference with the two left turn lanes onto 5th, especially since Govt Square just improved that situation.

This is a great update!  I like the idea of the Main/Walnut lines south of Central Pky.  That seems to make sense, but as the CVB guy said...he doesn't think that tourists will be opposed to walking a couple blocks to ride the streetcar, but going over to Main is starting to stretch it.  It would almost be easier for them to walk and/or drive to a place like Findlay Market.  Right now I'm on the fence, but I trust this groups judgement that they will select the best route!

Great report John!

 

After becoming a bit jaded from the ongoing drama over projects such as the banks, it was great to hear that the reasonable minds appear to be attached to this activity.  A nice change of pace!

 

Just curious, does anyone think there would be value in running an east/west bound loop as part of the initial run that ran down 5th, and then cut back on 4th before heading northbound again?

 

It would add the office workers at P&G and the various Western Southern companies to the mix as potential future downtown residents, as well as the Taft Theater and Taft Museum to the circuit (and go by my front door, but I'm thinking of everyone else.  Not me.  Honest!).

From my understanding that would really seem to slow down the overall route.  Say if you wanted to get to Findlay Market from the CBD you are now going to have to wait that much longer.  Whereas the other proposed routes are more straight shots so to speak.

 

Thinking down the road it would really discourage you from wanting to take it from say the CBD to the university and/or medical campus' Uptown.

 

But then again, the little I do know...I have learned from the likes of John Schneider, KJP, noozer, jmecklenberg, and so on.  So maybe wait to hear what they have to say  :laugh:

and go by my front door, but I'm thinking of everyone else.  Not me.  Honest!

 

Uh-huh, whatever!  ;) 

 

Just kidding, I understand!  I really want the streetcar to go down Walnut Street myself.  :D

keep it as simple and easy to understand as possible, straight lines

 

From my understanding that would really seem to slow down the overall route.  Say if you wanted to get to Findlay Market from the CBD you are now going to have to wait that much longer.  Whereas the other proposed routes are more straight shots so to speak.

 

I think that problem can be avoided as long as they keep the opposing tracks close to each other (I think someone said two blocks at most is the goal).  You then just catch the line that goes in the direction you want to go.  As long as there are a proportional number of additional cars on the line for the extra distance, it shouldn't make a difference.

 

If the opposing lines get too far apart, then you are correct.  It starts to look like the southbank shuttle route.

There are some great pictures of modern streetcars here if you want to check it out:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=403568

Can modern streetcars run in either direction? or do they have to turn around?

Can modern streetcars run in either direction? or do they have to turn around?

 

Yes, they can. The street cars have no front or back and they have doors on both sides. However, I'm pretty sure the plans here in cincy call for a continuous loop anyway. The trians will never need to change direction or turn around.

That's the beauty of streetcars.... versatility.

 

BTW:  Read my last post on the Downtown Columbus Streetcar thread.  It's an article by Scott Bernstein speaking to the economic development benefits of a streetcar line for Columbus, but you can apply much of it to Cincinnati as well.  Keep up the effort Cincy!

YP Sounding Sessions

 

Connect. Collaborate. Contribute.

 

Let your thoughts be heard on the downtown streetcar initiative!

 

Mayor Mark Mallory, City Councilmembers, City of Cincinnati Department of Transportation and Engineering, and GO Cincinnati, a diverse, multi-talented public-private commission formed to lead a comprehensive economic growth strategy for the City of Cincinnati, have all identified streetcar transit as a potential tool for improving local circulation, complementing other components of the local and regional transportation system, and supporting sustainable revitalization of urban neighborhoods. Based upon ongoing and continuing successes realized in other communities, the City of Cincinnati is taking a proactive approach in determining the feasibility of implementing a streetcar system within the central business district and immediately surrounding areas. To this end, the City has engaged HDR Engineering, Inc. (HDR), with additional support from Parsons Brinckerhoff (PB), to complete the Cincinnati Streetcar Feasibility Study.

 

The purpose of this initial feasibility study is to identify and evaluate a set of potential streetcar transit corridors and technologies, assess major engineering impacts related to traffic, parking and utilities, estimate transportation and economic development benefits, develop preliminary capital and operating cost estimates and identify a set of financing and implementation options. In general terms, the outcome of this feasibility study will be to validate and document whether the streetcar initiative should proceed beyond this initial study phase to the preliminary engineering and final design phases.

 

The Sounding Sessions will be hosted on the following date at a downtown location:

Tuesday, March 20, 2007

Wednesday, March 21, 2007

 

The first 100 people will be registered due to limited space. Registrants will receive a confirmation e-mail with the time and location of the session. If you do not make this Sounding Session and would like to learn about future YPWired Sounding Sessions please email [email protected] and provide your email and contact information.

 

YP Sounding Sessions, a volunteer initiative led by YPWired, are quarterly events offering young professionals the opportunity to discuss prevalent issues between civic leaders and organizations throughout the region. These relaxed after-work sessions are an opportunity for YPs to learn more about pressing issues facing our city, provide input and suggestions and become a

part of the positive change going on in Cincinnati.

 

YP Sounding Sessions are a product of the inaugural Bold Fusion held in 2004, which is an annual young professional summit hosted by the Cincinnati USA Regional Chamber and the YPCincy.com network.

 

Created in 2004, YPWired is a volunteer organization geared towards fostering interaction and dialogue between the leaders of today with the leaders of tomorrow. Once the sessions are over we strongly encourage participants and the organization to continue the involvement. Events are always relaxed and range from happy hours and town hall meetings, to Sounding Sessions© our signature program. Past speakers have included Steve Leeper, CEO of 3CDC and Tony Brown, CEO of Uptown Consortium, Bill Donabedian, managing director for Fountain Square Management LLC, Ellen van der Horst, president of the Cincinnati USA Regional Chamber, and Mayor Mark Mallory.

 

When? Tuesday, March 20, 2007, or Mar. 21, 6-8 p

Where? The 1st confirmation will list all sessions. The 2nd confirmation will be date and time specific,

^ I'll be there on Wednesday.  Another guy from our office will be there Tuesday.

I just tried to register and it is sold out.....both nights

that is great news

I just tried to register and it is sold out.....both nights

 

I bet if you asked them in a really nice way, they will put on extra Sounding Sessions. The two they scheduled for next week sold out the first day, so they know there's more demand than what they have provided for.

 

If you'd like to see Michael Moose's really excellent presentation, "The Case for a Downtown Streetcar", you could come to City Cellars, 908 Race, at 5:30p this evening. It will last until 7:00p. More than anything else, I think it's what convinced the city to undertake its study.

 

Space is limited. If you interested, please RSVP to me asap: [email protected]

I just tried to register and it is sold out.....both nights

 

I bet if you asked them in a really nice way, they will put on extra Sounding Sessions. The two they scheduled for next week sold out the first day, so they know there's more demand than what they have provided for.

 

If you'd like to see Michael Moose's really excellent presentation, "The Case for a Downtown Streetcar", you could come to City Cellars, 908 Race, at 5:30p this evening. It will last until 7:00p. More than anything else, I think it's what convinced the city to undertake its study.

 

Space is limited. If you interested, please RSVP to me asap: [email protected]

 

Thanks for the the invitation John.  We have seen the pitch from both Mike and Dan last year and I agree they are the true authors of this grass roots effort.  I am sure the information shared at the YP event will not be new data to anyone on this thread. However the sold out event clearly demonstrates the demand to learn more about this streetcar effort as well as the City of Cincinnnati's genuine interest in the YP care abouts.  Both good things!

I just tried to register and it is sold out.....both nights

 

I bet if you asked them in a really nice way, they will put on extra Sounding Sessions. The two they scheduled for next week sold out the first day, so they know there's more demand than what they have provided for.

 

If you'd like to see Michael Moose's really excellent presentation, "The Case for a Downtown Streetcar", you could come to City Cellars, 908 Race, at 5:30p this evening. It will last until 7:00p. More than anything else, I think it's what convinced the city to undertake its study.

 

Space is limited. If you interested, please RSVP to me asap: [email protected]

 

I am sure the information shared at the YP event will not be new data to anyone on this thread.

 

Actually, that's not exactly true. What Mike Moose, Dan Deering and I are doing is talking to groups about the "what and why" of a downtown streetcar in Cincinnati. The city's process involves the nitty-gritty "who, when and where" of a downtown streetcar in very specific terms -- a plan, if you will. Dan, Mike and I are using the Portland example to show in a very general way how an improvement like this might benefit Cincinnati. On the other hand, the Sounding Sessions are more about how a streetcar would really work here -- when it might be built, where it would run, how it might be paid for, etc. We don't presume to answer those questions. We're laying the groundwork. The city of Cincinnati is really doing the hard work. If you're really interested in this, I'd follow the city's process closely. The three of us are useful idiots in the city's process, necessary but not sufficient. See what I mean?

Interesting...I had always thought that this was an effort of the key people and that the city liked the idea and was won over.  But its reassuring that its the other way around and that the city is pushing this effort!

I just tried to register and it is sold out.....both nights

 

I bet if you asked them in a really nice way, they will put on extra Sounding Sessions. The two they scheduled for next week sold out the first day, so they know there's more demand than what they have provided for.

 

If you'd like to see Michael Moose's really excellent presentation, "The Case for a Downtown Streetcar", you could come to City Cellars, 908 Race, at 5:30p this evening. It will last until 7:00p. More than anything else, I think it's what convinced the city to undertake its study.

 

Space is limited. If you interested, please RSVP to me asap: [email protected]

 

I am sure the information shared at the YP event will not be new data to anyone on this thread.

 

Actually, that's not exactly true. What Mike Moose, Dan Deering and I are doing is talking to groups about the "what and why" of a downtown streetcar in Cincinnati. The city's process involves the nitty-gritty "who, when and where" of a downtown streetcar in very specific terms -- a plan, if you will. Dan, Mike and I are using the Portland example to show in a very general way how an improvement like this might benefit Cincinnati. On the other hand, the Sounding Sessions are more about how a streetcar would really work here -- when it might be built, where it would run, how it might be paid for, etc. We don't presume to answer those questions. We're laying the groundwork. The city of Cincinnati is really doing the hard work. If you're really interested in this, I'd follow the city's process closely. The three of us are useful idiots in the city's process, necessary but not sufficient. See what I mean?

 

Yep, I do and I certainly agree.  except the part about the idiots:)  The city is treating this like a campaign issue already, building it's support base if you will.  So far I am impressed with the effort and strategy.

Today the Downtown Cincinnati Stakeholder Group met and selected a specific route that connects Findlay Market with The Banks. The consultants had lots of findings which, when you put it all together, suggested a first among equals, even though any of the four alternative alignments might have worked reasonably well. It was a very analytical approach based on what is possible compared to what you'd like to do.

 

Using this alignment as a sort of testbed, the consultants will now examine the costs of building and operating the first phase of the streetcar, together with a compilation of the benefits derived from it. They will be back in town during the second week in April to talk about what they have learned.

 

 

Did the route include going on 12th and 13th for the east west part instead of Central Parkway?  I heard that was pushing up as an option to hit more of Vine Street etc.

Did the route include going on 12th and 13th for the east west part instead of Central Parkway?  I heard that was pushing up as an option to hit more of Vine Street etc.

 

I wish. 12th Street is in there, but not 13th.

I think the route that was chosen offers the highest potential for return on investment.  There are a LOT of vacant bldgs in that part of OTR, as well as, that western edge of downtown.  We are talking about the Elm/Race route...correct?  If not then disregard my comment.

Elm and Race in OTR, Walnut and Main in CBD, cutting across Central Pkwy and 12th.

Something important that I learned last night is that the Main and Walnut bridges over FWW were built with rail in mind. Rail can be laid there just like any surface street. The other bridges would need to be reconstructed, making their use much, much more expensive.

Elm and Race in OTR, Walnut and Main in CBD, cutting across Central Pkwy and 12th.

 

How far north, does it turn around across Henry or McMicken?

^who's going to ride that far north anyway?  there's nothing up there. ;)  yet

Across Findlay. I suggested that it go to McMicken -- the consultants from HDR and PB stated that I wasn't the first to do so and that they're looking into it. By my way of thinking, it encourages more development by hitting more of the brewery district, and it lays the rail in a better position to make the uptown link up W. Clifton.

Across Findlay. I suggested that it go to McMicken -- the consultants from HDR and PB stated that I wasn't the first to do so and that they're looking into it. By my way of thinking, it encourages more development by hitting more of the brewery district, and it lays the rail in a better position to make the uptown link up W. Clifton.

 

I agree.  If the whole point is to be an economic engine, that extra block or two encompasses a huge area that is ripe for redevelopment, including the whole Renner/Mohawk hillside.  Turning at Findlay basically circles a giant parking lot.

^Agree.  It should not turn around at Findlay.  Kinda defeats the development aspect.  Henry kinda makes sense because it is wide and lacks traffic.  Findlay is two way, and can be congested.  McMicken would also make sense, except the right hand turn at the top of Elm may be too tight.

They had other proposed routes that did include the tight turn at McMicken, though I think they would've been making a left. Nevertheless, I think they can negotiate the turn.

^ If it's a 75' turning radius, then the turn can be made from the west side of Elm (which isn't the best option).  What the Brewery District proposed is cutting the corner as shown.  This would only require an easement or property sale, not any demolition of existing buildings.  While any property acquisition adds complexity, this seems to be a pretty simple way of extending the impact area.

 

I was at the YP Sounding Session yesterday.  Had a chance to introduce myself to and meet John.

 

Nothing was really said that we don't know already.  No real statement by anyone that said "This is the route I like" which I thought was interesting.  No conversation or opinions about a crossing at 12th & 13th versus Central Parkway & 12th.  They did mention hearing that going up to McMicken was or had been vocalized besides the options of turning at Findlay. I prefered any option that went in to the Banks which favor the Walnut/Main Streets configuration.

 

I thought we got sidetracked by a comment on crime and perception of crime . . .

 

I do NOT want Northern Kentucky to have a streetcar first . . . so write call email your council members to vocalize your support.  Keep this issue on the forefront. Schedule has the technical report going to City Council I think May which then everyone's going to have to figure out how to pay for it if Council gives the ok. Write letters to the paper.  My opinion . . this has to get done and not just a study sitting on a shelf.

 

Ok, coming off the soapbox . . .

 

A number asked how they could be updated on the progress. Different things were mentioned but John did announce that UrbanOhio.com was a good resource for articles, conversation, etc. not only about the street car but developments in Cincinnati and all of Ohio for that matter.  I echoed those sentiments.

I do NOT want Northern Kentucky to have a streetcar first . . . so write call email your council members to vocalize your support.  Keep this issue on the forefront. Schedule has the technical report going to City Council I think May which then everyone's going to have to figure out how to pay for it if Council gives the ok. Write letters to the paper.  My opinion . . this has to get done and not just a study sitting on a shelf.

 

Unless a completely private entity comes forward with governments unabided attention and support in Nky, then there is not a chance in heck that Nky will have a streetcar system first.  There is no motivation...Nky will get a system after downtown Cincy has it in place.  Nky will then eventually link into the downtown Cincy system.  Nky cannot support their own system on its own!

 

No real statement by anyone that said "This is the route I like" which I thought was interesting. 

 

Actually, I think that's good at this point. The next phase, comparing the actual costs and benefits of the several routes -- maybe even tweaking them and coming up with a hybrid of a couple routes -- that's what's going to make the decision more obvious.

 

My guiding thoughts include the need to connect the office core -- the source of the most likely suspects to repopulate downtown -- with Findlay Market, downtown's once and future grocery store, which is coincidentally tangent to OTR's best, most untouched raw material for future housing. If we can pick up  big attractors like the ballpark and arts institutions and generators like big and small housing sites along the way, so much the better.

Dear Cincinnatian,

 

The city of Cincinnati's study of a downtown streetcar is underway and will be complete in May. A tentative route has been selected, and the economists have commenced an evaluation of the streetcar's benefits compared to the costs of building and operating it. There is strong support for the project from elected officials, the business community, civic groups and from downtown residents who voted 2:1 for it in 2002. If approved by City Council, construction could begin in a couple of years, and the line connecting The Banks with Findlay Market could be operating by 2011.

 

In order to understand how rail transit might work in a city like Cincinnati, the Alliance for Regional Transit has been leading area residents to Portland, Oregon for several years. Portland has the nation's only modern streetcar and one of the nation's best light rail systems. Portland routinely shows up on the lists of cities where young people most want to live, and downtown Portland is a forest of construction cranes right now. Nearly 300 of your neighbors have made this trip, and sometimes we've been joined by residents of other cities who've heard about these trips and tag along. Ask around. You undoubtedly know a colleague or neighbor who has gone to Portland with us, probably several people.

 

This is not really a streetcar tour. We get the light rail trains and streetcars out of the way very quickly. It's more about what rail transit can do for a drive-in/drive-out city like Cincinnati: less money spent on cars so that more can be spent on housing, less need for heavily subsidized parking facilities, more pedestrians on the street patronizing unique stores at all hours, cleaner air, less crime. You'll come to understand how cities that weaken their links with the highway economy can become better places to live, work and visit.

 

Someone has suggested that you participate in our next tour of Portland on Friday, May 25th. It's a holiday weekend, and so I have rooms booked for several days before and after the day of the tour. May is one of the best months to be in Portland. You can still ski on Mt. Hood, and its beautiful hiking trails are starting to re-open by then. Memorial Day is a big weekend for wine tours in the Willamette Valley, and Oregon's rocky seashore always beckons. Seattle is four hours away by train, Vancouver a little further.

 

We'll be staying at Hotel Monaco, Portland's best hotel -- here: http://www.monaco-portland.com/ The Monaco will charge you a discounted rate of $139 per night, and they won't charge for a second person in the room. In addition, the Alliance charges $99 per person for the tour including your lunch, a fine Friday evening dinner and tickets for the trains and the Portland Aerial Tram.

 

We need all of your time between Noon and 10:00p on Friday, May 25th. Other than that, you're on your own. Most people will arrive the Thursday evening before the tour. Don't book any flight that arrives in Portland later than 10:45a on Friday, or you may miss the start of the tour.

 

Based on the calls and emails I've been getting, this trip is going to be extremely well attended, so if you're sure you want to go, I'd book your flight soon and be done with it. The Delta nonstops are expensive but convenient. People sometimes get out there on Northwest or United for under $300, but I wouldn't bet on it. Airfares will rise steeply the closer we get to Memorial Day Weekend.

 

If you are interested, please write back, and I'll send you more information.

 

Thanks - hope you can make the trip.

 

John Schneider

 

email: [email protected]

 

I'd love to take the tour, but on Memorial Day weekend, I'll be on my own transit tour -- London, Brussels, Cologne, Frankfurt, Paris. Please let us know how the trips goes, and please share photographs here on UrbanOhio to spread the knowledge!

I'd love to take the tour, but on Memorial Day weekend, I'll be on my own transit tour -- London, Brussels, Cologne, Frankfurt, Paris. Please let us know how the trips goes, and please share photographs here on UrbanOhio to spread the knowledge!

 

Can't top that! Maybe I'll be smart enough to figure out how to upload photos by then.

Why can't the county get on board with one thing the City is trying to do??  This seems to be counterproductive to all of the Streetcar work going on.  Can't the County use the money they have set aside for this "system" to help fund the Steetcar??  Makes the most since to me.  How about you guys??

 

CINCINNATI -- County leaders told News 5 the money for a new type of downtown mass transit is in place.

 

Routes are being considered for a trolley system, officials said, which the city hasn’t seen since the 1950s.

 

“When you think of cities that are on the go and on the move, you think of cities that have public transportation that is interesting,” said Hamilton County Commissioner Todd Portune.

 

The trolleys would have rubber wheels, similar to the trolley cars now used during festivals and other events, and would not require special tracks or wires.

 

Routes would connect riders to hotels, cultural attractions such as Music Hall and the Museum Center and Findlay Market, and major office buildings.

 

“Parking in the city is a commodity,” said commuter Adrian Carter. “It’s hard to find and it’s expensive, so if it’s going to work, I’ll try it.”

 

Not everyone is quite so enthusiastic.

 

"I'm not sure it adds that much to the downtown by having a trolley system," said downtown worker Bob DelSanto.

 

Officials hope to get government approval, purchase the vehicles and put them on the streets by the end of the summer.

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WTF!??!?!?!?!?

 

I don't want a damn trolley system like this for downtown.  All it is, is a nostalgia move.  They are glorified buses and won't do a damn thing for new investment in the downtown area.  This is a terrible idea, and I plan on letting all of the commissioners know how I feel!

What in the world? Trolleys with rubber wheels, no tracks or wires? Don't we call those buses now?

this is a horrible idea.