Final ridership numbers aren't out yet, but I think regionally, the streetcar did the following for 2024-

 

All-time annual ridership record

#2 for total ridership (behind Route 43)

#1 for unique riders

#1 for riders per vehicle hour (by a huge margin)

#1 for riders per route mile (by an enormous margin)

 

 

Edited January 2Jan 2 by thomasbw
forgot a thing

Edited January 3Jan 3 by thomasbw
added minor grid lines

Vacant lot values reach obscene levels along the streetcar route:

https://www.comey.com/real-estate/cincy/1818504/1518-Race-St-Cincinnati-OH-45202/

"Incredible opportunity to build on the Streetcar route near Washington Park in Over the Rhine!"

 

I love that the first thing they mention as an asset of the property is that it's on the streetcar route!

But! But! No one uses it! It's hurting local businesses! 

 

At today's board meeting for OKI, there were a few pages of amendments to their federal grant plan, the Transportation Improvement Program. There were 2 items for the streetcar listed in FY25 that are getting added:

1. Planning - Cincinnati Streetcar Headway Management and realtime arrival integration
   1. Section 5307 (AoPP): $250,000
   2. Local match: $27,778
   3. Total: $277,778
2. Capital - Cincinnati Streetcar Headway Management and realtime arrival integration
   1. Federal Flex Funds (Workforce Mobility: $1,213,200
   2. Local match: $303,300
   3. Total: $1,516,500

It sounds to me that this means the arrival times will be back at the screens at the stations and on the streetcar itself but I don't know if this will cover anything else.

On 4/23/2023 at 12:04 PM, Dev said:

The city just applied for a grant from the FTA that should most, if not all, of these problems: 

 

 

Following up on this, the city did win this grant from the FTA, which is helping pay for the planning phase of the project. The city had applied for $500k according to the ordinance that was passed by council though.

This seems like a ton of money for a simple problem, the Transit app allows user's phones to act as a beacon for real time updates so it seems to me you could just put a cell phone with the driver in the front linked to the transit app and boom you have a 5G transponder but whatever. I'm not sure how to link that information from the app to the displays at the station but again it doesn't seem like it should be that difficult to implement and other cities have sure figured it out before us. 

43 minutes ago, ucgrady said:

This seems like a ton of money for a simple problem, the Transit app allows user's phones to act as a beacon for real time updates so it seems to me you could just put a cell phone with the driver in the front linked to the transit app and boom you have a 5G transponder but whatever. I'm not sure how to link that information from the app to the displays at the station but again it doesn't seem like it should be that difficult to implement and other cities have sure figured it out before us. 

At the last facility tour hosted by AAO, the maintenance crew did mention that they used a multiple cellphone setup to see if they could approximate the system. I don't remember the exact reason but no it was not a reliable, long term fix. The crews can't just do whatever they want between Federal regulations and contracts with multiple vendors. The streetcar itself is comprised of multiple systems, each built by a different subcontractor. Additionally, given that the manufacturer had to make major changes to them to comply with stricter US regulations, the vehicles are basically one-of-a-kind and Cincinnati is the guinea pig.

So it's certainly more complicated than it needs to be, sure, but that complexity is imposed on the city/Transdev and they just have to deal with it, which they are.

My understanding of the system is that. like WAZE, it relies on the outputs of multiple cell phones of passengers on the streetcar So, when a streetcar has a lot of passengers on it, it gives reliable information as to its position. If there are only one or two people are on a streetcar, it's less reliable. 

Hopefully those grants will solve one of these five issues- 

 

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/opinion/contributors/2025/01/10/5-ways-to-make-2025-a-record-setting-year-for-cincinnatis-streetcar/77575825007/

So no grants for signal priority?

On 1/10/2025 at 10:36 AM, John Schneider said:

My understanding of the system is that. like WAZE, it relies on the outputs of multiple cell phones of passengers on the streetcar So, when a streetcar has a lot of passengers on it, it gives reliable information as to its position. If there are only one or two people are on a streetcar, it's less reliable. 

If that's the case, get four Mint Mobile phones and leave them running in each streetcar. Rig up a battery pack and you can solve 90% of the problem for under $5,000 per year

 

(4 lines x $15 a month x 5 streetcars= $3,600 plus 5 power banks)

https://t.co/kx6Do4LZp2

 

These are fun suggestions, but the best use of our subway tunnels is for a rapid streetcar line running from Downtown, through OTR, the West End, Camp Washington, Clifton, Northside, and Westwood with the ability to expand along the 74 or 75 corridors.

  

Edited January 16Jan 16 by thomasbw

I think the city was taken aback by how many people suggested putting trains in the subway.

There is a group of people working on a public initiative to that purpose but I can't say much more than that at this juncture. The point is though that we as a community need to act quickly to get the ball rolling on using the subway tunnels for their original purpose before some nitwit on city council or Aftab decides to do a Cincinnati version of the Vegas loop.

19 minutes ago, JaceTheAce41 said:

I think the city was taken aback by how many people suggested putting trains in the subway.

There is a group of people working on a public initiative to that purpose but I can't say much more than that at this juncture. The point is though that we as a community need to act quickly to get the ball rolling on using the subway tunnels for their original purpose before some nitwit on city council or Aftab decides to do a Cincinnati version of the Vegas loop.

 

How/when do we expect to learn more about this group of people working on a public initiative?

I would hope in the next few months. There have been some initial conversations among the group, but we have a long way to go. That said, and I know this is just personal vibes on my part, but I think there is a real opportunity to correct some of the past mistakes when it comes to rail transit, transit in general, and streetcar expansion/improvements. Get on any online convo about what Cincinnati needs and 9 times out of 10 a majority will say some sort of rail transit. Plus the political demographics have changed somewhat in Hamilton County and I think that with enough effort, a ballot initiative could work. Heck, an east-west line like Thomas just showed would do really well here.

2 hours ago, JaceTheAce41 said:

I think the city was taken aback by how many people suggested putting trains in the subway.

There is a group of people working on a public initiative to that purpose but I can't say much more than that at this juncture. The point is though that we as a community need to act quickly to get the ball rolling on using the subway tunnels for their original purpose before some nitwit on city council or Aftab decides to do a Cincinnati version of the Vegas loop.

It would have been amazing if the vote for selling the railway included having to use the funds for the subway, or any transit projects. Along with a complete rezoning of the areas surrounding the stops and development incentives. $1.6 billion plus matching funds from Pete could have done so much. 

23 minutes ago, PlanCleveland said:

$1.6 billion plus matching funds from Pete could have done so much. 

 

That would’ve required local leaders with vision and a national Dem party that was organized to win. 

1 hour ago, PlanCleveland said:

It would have been amazing if the vote for selling the railway included having to use the funds for the subway, or any transit projects. Along with a complete rezoning of the areas surrounding the stops and development incentives. $1.6 billion plus matching funds from Pete could have done so much. 

 

Leaving aside that they could have sold the railroad for double that, and locked in RoW on the line to get future rail within a mile of CVG, that is something I'll never stop being mad about and never forgive Aftab for. The guy has no chance in hell of being governor or Senator and the least he could do is try to be the best mayor the city has had. But alas, here we are.

 

Although, the railroad money is for "existing infrastructure" and the subway tunnels have existed for 100 years so maybe an argument could be made that making them ready for light rail would be covered by railroad funds.

7 hours ago, thomasbw said:

https://t.co/kx6Do4LZp2

 

These are fun suggestions, but the best use of our subway tunnels is for a rapid streetcar line running from Downtown, through OTR, the West End, Camp Washington, Clifton, Northside, and Westwood with the ability to expand along the 74 or 75 corridors.

  

I love this idea. I won't go into too much detail about the proposal I was a part of, but I feel like it is important to add (and the article mentioned it) that GBBN's proposal would not preclude rail in the future. Even if we started planning and lobbying today, we are still a good chunk of time away from riding from Northside to Downtown on a streetcar in a tunnel.

Edited January 16Jan 16 by Chas Wiederhold

Folks, you’re dreaming if you think these tunnels are ever going to be used for rail in the near future. 

6 minutes ago, Gordon Bombay said:

Folks, you’re dreaming if you think these tunnels are ever going to be used for rail in the near future. 

What is exciting to me is opening up the stations to the public... get people down there! Once the water main is moved (that was the impetus of the RFI), it will be much safer to have the public in the tunnels. I think any grassroots organizer would agree that the public has to demonstrate it has a strong tie to the tunnels and stations for anything to happen down there in the next two decades. Getting people underground will build positive momentum for connecting the sites by rail in the future.

41 minutes ago, Gordon Bombay said:

Folks, you’re dreaming if you think these tunnels are ever going to be used for rail in the near future. 

Not with that attitude :)

As my mom always said; can’t never could do anything 

I think having a positive attitude about getting rail into the tunnels is not exclusive to bringing people into the stations and programming the tunnels in the short term. The proposals that have high investment costs that don't elevate the station accessibility/experience or altering the tunnels and stations beyond suitability for rail are non-starters, imo. 

 

edited for clarification

Edited January 17Jan 17 by Chas Wiederhold

Meanwhile in Kansas City, testing of their new 3.5 mile streetcar extension began today.

On 1/16/2025 at 8:14 AM, thomasbw said:

https://t.co/kx6Do4LZp2

 

These are fun suggestions, but the best use of our subway tunnels is for a rapid streetcar line running from Downtown, through OTR, the West End, Camp Washington, Clifton, Northside, and Westwood with the ability to expand along the 74 or 75 corridors.

  

 

From a couple weeks ago, but I love seeing these proposals getting attention on social media...

https://www.instagram.com/p/DE5OwyTxJzb/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link&igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

 

Quote

Only in America would abandoned subway tunnels in Cincinnati be repurposed as not a subway. We don't need public space in tunnels, we need good transit!

 

Last year the streetcar was #4 for overall ridership, this year it's up to #3. When the 17 and 43 get BRT upgrades and the underlying routes are severely cut, it will be interesting to see what happens with ridership. Most of the 17 will be duplicated by the Hamilton BRT, but on the 43, the Reading BRT stops at Roselawn.

 

 

This might have been posted already, but here it is just in case it hasn't.

 

Cincinnati Connector Survey

On 2/1/2025 at 12:28 PM, JohnOSU99 said:

This might have been posted already, but here it is just in case it hasn't.

 

Cincinnati Connector Survey

That survey is literally a year old- https://www.cincinnati-oh.gov/dote/news/city-and-uc-partner-to-conduct-a-survey-about-service-and-ridership-trends/

 

We permanently closed all four lanes of Elm Street to benefit the 730,000 *annual* convention center attendees. (I'm sure a huge percentage are from out of town)

 

We should designate just one lane of Walnut Street for transit only to benefit the 732,811 *monthly* transit riders. (The vast majority are locals)

 

And that's using what's essentially the best-case scenario convention center numbers. It will be interesting to see how much that bounces back after pandemic/closures. 

 

There were 10 days last year when the streetcar was the busiest rail transit route in Ohio (next to Cleveland Red Line which held the title the other 355 days for scale) 

1 hour ago, thomasbw said:

There were 10 days last year when the streetcar was the busiest rail transit

What exactly is the metric? Passenger trips per day? 

19 minutes ago, jwulsin said:

What exactly is the metric? Passenger trips per day? 

Boardings recorded by the relevant transit agency for that day. I just compared the Streetcar to the Cleveland Red Line. I didn't bother looking at Cleveland's green or blue lines which, combined, had a total ridership of 800k in 2024. 

I went through COTA's data and it looks possible that the Streetcar had the highest ridership of any transit route in Ohio, Kentucky, or Indiana 8 days last year (10/19/24, 6/22/24, 7/6/24, 7/27/24, 4/27/24, 7/13/24, 9/14/24, 4/28/24).

 

Are there any routes in Dayton or Toledo that have extremely high weekend ridership? I don't think TARC or IndyGo have any. Definitely nothing from TANK.

 

Also checked the South Shore commuter train to Chicago, that's a higher during the week service. 

Edited February 13Feb 13 by thomasbw

You know what would make “The Connector” better? If it didn’t stop to switch drivers at the maintenance facility EVERY. SINGLE. LOOP. 

Why is there even a station on the East side of Findlay Market? Just make it a block north at the maintenance facility since they’re gonna stop there anyways.

Edited February 22Feb 22 by Gordon Bombay

16 hours ago, Gordon Bombay said:

You know what would make “The Connector” better? If it didn’t stop to switch drivers at the maintenance facility EVERY. SINGLE. LOOP. 

Why is there even a station on the East side of Findlay Market? Just make it a block north at the maintenance facility since they’re gonna stop there anyways. 

 

How is our city, the ONLY city in the United States, that runs its “modern streetcar” in the absolute worst way possible? 

I promise you that nearly all of the modern US street cars are run worse than Cincy. KC is better (especially with the soon-to-open extension), but Milwaukee, Tampa, Omaha (still not open!), and Oklahoma City are all worse. On MKE’s new loop service, the 20 minute headways are longer than it takes to walk from one end of the line to the other. It’s not an excuse for not doing better, but comparisons to other US cities aren’t helpful.  We need to compare ourselves to countries that actually know how to run transit. 

Fair points, @Boomerang_Brian and very well said.

I haven’t looked at the actual streetcar tracks before posting this so bear with me. One of my main complaints about the streetcar is that it’s a loop rather than a linear route. If I get on at Nrothern Row and want to go to Music Hall, I have to ride the whole loop. I wonder if there’s a way to do a cutoff in OTR so you could have a smaller loop that doesn’t go to the Banks? That way you could have three downtown lines; the current loop and an  OTR and Downtown loop.

6 minutes ago, JaceTheAce41 said:

I haven’t looked at the actual streetcar tracks before posting this so bear with me. One of my main complaints about the streetcar is that it’s a loop rather than a linear route. If I get on at Nrothern Row and want to go to Music Hall, I have to ride the whole loop. I wonder if there’s a way to do a cutoff in OTR so you could have a smaller loop that doesn’t go to the Banks? That way you could have three downtown lines; the current loop and an  OTR and Downtown loop.

 

Just get off and walk a block. It's not really a "loop". It's just offset by one street

Streetcar was second for passengers per vehicle hour nationwide in 2024, up from 13th in 2019

I also pulled the numbers for all the other rail systems, and the Cincinnati Streetcar was 7th in the country for passengers per vehicle hour in the United States. 

Do you have a link to those stats?  I'm curious to see them, thanks.

4 hours ago, ColDayMan said:

Do you have a link to those stats?  I'm curious to see them, thanks.

 

City of Cincinnati looks to make an upgrade to streetcar service thanks to $250,000 federal grant

 

The real-time arrival signs at Cincinnati Connector streetcar stops, which show riders how long they will have to wait for the next streetcar, have been without accurate information for more than two years now.

That could change this year.

 

Cincinnati City Council voted unanimously last week to accept a $250,000 grant from the Federal Transit Administration to upgrade the technology behind the signs and give riders the information they used to receive.

 

The real-time arrival system was discontinued in the fall of 2022 because of issues syncing to a global positioning system. Now, the signs only inform riders of the streetcar’s schedule, which calls for a train to arrive every 12 to 15 minutes.

...

@thomasbw, an attorney, transit advocate, former Metro board member and longtime streetcar proponent, has urged the city, which took oversight of the streetcar from Metro in 2019, to fix the problem for years.

 

He took the lead in placing QR codes at each stop directing people to the Transit app and real-time arrival signs.

 

“While the Transit app is a great tool to get real-time updates, out of town visitors or someone taking the streetcar to a Reds game for the first time might not have the Transit app on their phone,” he said. “By fixing the real-time arrival signs at the 18 streetcar stops, we can better inform passengers and make them more likely to choose the connector for future trips.”

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2025/03/11/streetcar-real-time-arrival-downtown-otr-transit.html

 

They originally planned to install wired connections between all of the stops during streetcar construction which would have been used for real-time arrival data. As part of the value engineering, this was removed and a wireless system was installed instead...which was inaccurate and unreliable. Now the city is spending $250,000 to fix the problem. Wish they would have just gone with the better solution from the beginning.

1 hour ago, taestell said:

They originally planned to install wired connections between all of the stops during streetcar construction which would have been used for real-time arrival data. As part of the value engineering, this was removed and a wireless system was installed instead...which was inaccurate and unreliable. Now the city is spending $250,000 to fix the problem. Wish they would have just gone with the better solution from the beginning.

 

And still no signal prioritization! I truly wonder why not.

4 minutes ago, Miami-Erie said:

 

And still no signal prioritization! I truly wonder why not.

 

It's becoming comical at this point. Every streetcar and bus in the city should have signal priority. Just kill 1,000 birds with one stone already!

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/politics/2025/03/16/cincinnatis-abandoned-subway-tunnels-as-transit-see-old-new-ideas/77972233007/?tbref=hp

 

This is an embarrassingly stupid statement, even for Mark Policinski

Quote

 

That's why Policinski thinks the tunnels make more sense for some other creative use, like turning the stations into spas or subterranean beer gardens.

"My thought is that this really is not a transportation issue at all," he said. "What is it, though, is an economic development issue."