In The Banks presentation yesterday, Trent Germano of the AIG Carter team that's developing the The Banks mentioned without prompting how his company often works with MARTA in their Atlanta projects. I hope he was mentioning this in the context of the streetcar and not the Eastern Corridor diesel rail project.

The first gathering of the Cincinnati Salon will feature a guest from London.  Antoine Clarke will be speaking about the new streetcar system which is currently being planned for Cincinnati, and he will give insight about which types of public transportation are most effective.

 

http://cincysalon.wordpress.com/2007/04/26/first-salon-streetcar-edition/

No one has commeneted but I like the route outlined in the City Beat article.  At the meeting I went to, the streetcar was traveling eat on 12th to Walnut and west on Central to Elm.  I like the new route with the streetcar going north on Main to 12th and then west.  It goes in to that Main Street area more than just making the turn west at Central at the Alms & Doepke Building.

 

So, if the Playhouse in the Park people are out there and Fifth & Race doesn't include you, I still think the SE corner of Walnut & Central Parkway might work. Think "Playhouse on the Parkway".  Too far north from Fountain Square you say?  Well the streetcar becomes the link for the arts organizations as a number of them are on or a half a block from the street car line:

 

Music Hall * Memorial Hall * Ensemble Thetare * Know Theatre * New Stage Collective * (A renovated) Emery Thetare! * The Aronoff * And the Taft Theatre is one block away . . .

 

The first gathering of the Cincinnati Salon will feature a guest from London.  Antoine Clarke will be speaking about the new streetcar system which is currently being planned for Cincinnati, and he will give insight about which types of public transportation are most effective.

 

http://cincysalon.wordpress.com/2007/04/26/first-salon-streetcar-edition/

 

Don't presume that this will be a pro-streetcar presentation.

Sounds fantastic, I will definitely try to be there!  I have also informed some others about the event.  I am currently in the process of setting up what I call the 'Cincinnati YP Alliance'.  I am doing this via Facebook, because quite honestly it is a very easy way to reach a large number of people.  So far there has been some significant interest...and I currently have about 70 people from all different walks of life.  I sent out a message to all the members informing them that these are the types of things that they need to be getting plugged into.

Gah. If this was not on my finals week and if I could carpool up (gas is $3/gal here), I would so attend. :(

The first gathering of the Cincinnati Salon will feature a guest from London.  Antoine Clarke will be speaking about the new streetcar system which is currently being planned for Cincinnati, and he will give insight about which types of public transportation are most effective.

 

http://cincysalon.wordpress.com/2007/04/26/first-salon-streetcar-edition/

 

Don't presume that this will be a pro-streetcar presentation.

 

Aside from costs too much and does too little, are there any other counter arguments that are streetcar specific.  I know one of the things that will come up is just use a bus on the same route, but aside from that, is there anything to be prepared for?

 

I guess he will say it won't pay for itself, but really no transportation does

^ I think you will hear complaints about losing a lane for cars & making driving more dangerous.

Dangers for peds might come up but I doubt any cage pilots really care about that.

actually i have been trying to research this guy and what i have concluded is that he is a liberatrian who probably wants no government subsidies at all especially for public transportation.  so if people go they have to make two arguments

1. saying there shouldn't be gov't subsidies for transportation is all well and good, but we live in the real world and that is how it works.

2. (more importantly) the automobile receives greater amounts of subsidies than public transportation any day. 

 

The figure that seems to be thrown around for #2 is that automobile drivers only pay something like 55% of the cost of road upkeep, etc through gasoline taxes and fees.  does anyone happen to know where this comes from?

^Also, be quick to remind people like this that the US Navy's protection of global tanker traffic is what keeps those things from being hijacked and sunk...meanwhile the transportation of coal to the Ohio River's many coal power plants is extremely cheap and safe.  So a large part of the military's budget goes to just ensuring the safe transport of oil from various corners of the world, aside from the air and land-based military activities in Kuwait and Iraq 15 years ago, currently, and anything else that the government doesn't tell us about.   

 

 

I get a kick out of this.

 

On the what's a salon page, it states: "“To please and educate” sounds a little patronizing to my ears. Hence the tagline for this gathering: “to please and debate”."

 

Hmmm... The word educate sounds patronizing? But the idea of hosting a salon doesn't? Curious.

 

Good points on contradicting the libertarian argument. That line of thinking always strikes me as childish. But haters will come armed with stats, so anyone planning to attend should pack their own heat.

 

No doubt a lot of anti-transit feeling will come from a pro-market point of view. One might ask these folks to explain their objection to an entreprenurial state. Or invite them to build their own roads on which they pilot their motorcoaches. Say that last bit in a Monty Burns voice.

And the host of this soirée states: "Mostly, you can find me wherever there’s wifi and a lack of pretension."

 

Hooo, boy. That's a big ol' ball of contradiction right there. Yep, welp.

They are nothing but contradictions.

 

It's funny how we heavily subsidize highways -- a money losing venture as a whole. Highway proponents complain about the money we "throw away" on mass transit, but then don't realize that we throw away money on highways year after year. From repaving projects where inflation rates are increasing 60% per year on basic materials, to bridge reconstructions, to widenings, etc., we _never_ see a return on investment unless the highway is tolled.

This whole thing seems to be tied together here

http://www.jackiedanicki.com/?p=1220

I am thinking the worst thing about it might be that you get put on a mailing list or two.

After visiting this site, why are we concerned that this is going to be an anti-streetcar presentation? 

 

this guy (Antonie Clark) is her fiance, but she is incredibly pro-cincinnati or at least joe wessels thinks she is

^Well, since you and John said so, I guess.

 

Also, one could be pro-Cincinnati and anti-streetcar (if ill-informed).

Interesting article in US News and World Magazine...Talks about what a ton of cities across the US are trying to do due to the amount of traffic on the roads today.  Thought you guys might be interested...its rather lengthy (5 pages) so read at your own pace! 

 

http://www.usnews.com/usnews/news/articles/070429/7gridlock.htm

So what happened at Jackie Danicki's salon tonight?

Well...the meeting had some very intriguing conversation, but the meeting wasn't informative at all...and thomasbw and I were actually more the voices of actual knowledge on the streetcar proposal.  Many questions were raised by Antoine, but they were just that...he kept posing questions for discussion.

 

They were mainly related to financing and the eventual operating costs for the system.  I organized a group of about 8 people that attended the discussion.  Most of whom had very little knowledge about the streetcar proposal, and now are more informed and excited about the potential system.

Sounds like we're presenting a second time to the Downtown Residents Council on May 21st @ 6:00p at the Tower Room of the Main Library -- third floor, facing west to Garfield Park, a really beautiful room, one of Cincinnati's best public places.

 

You should bring your group.

 

Why am I not surprised that the speaker focused on financing and the operating costs for the system?

Well as soon as he said that he worked for a Think Tank for many years I knew I was in for a long night!  :laugh:

I guessed correctly about the libretarian slant and the main arguments of the government shouldn't subsidize any transportation at all so they shouldn't subsidize the streetcar.  And if government didn't subsidize any transit that would be a good argument to make, but our system has such huge gov't automobile subsidies we are kinda stuck.

 

The speaker seemed to greatly over estimate the eagerness of private companies to step in an operate a bus system if Metro were disbanded and greatly under estimate the amount of stigma and animosity that a large section of america has for buses.  This may be perception bias from observing the english system and extrapolating that to the united state.

 

Some of the points about safety were rather strange.  The speaker brought up a streetcar killing 18 people in either prague or barcelona or somewhere several years ago.  And while any transporation system has risks it doesn't come anywhere near the 43,000 americans killed by automobiles a year.

 

 

^s It was strange the general lack of knowledge of the project among those hosting.  I suppose this is understandable considering the lack of any single streetcar planning document available for general consumption. 

 

 

John,

 

I believe the HBR study was due to be completed in mid May.  Have you heard any news on a specific completion date, is it still on track? (pardon the pun!)

John,

 

I believe the HBR study was due to be completed in mid May.  Have you heard any news on a specific completion date, is it still on track? (pardon the pun!)

 

The report will be presented to the City's Economic Development Committee on May 22nd. Don't know the time. We're going to get a preview on May 18th -- both the plan and the benefit/cost study.

 

By the way, with respect to the comments about USNWR article regarding average speeds commuting.

 

Opponents often claim that light rail, which averages about 21 MPH end-to-end in the United States, ought to be dismissed because it is "so slow." But these averages are derived from the National Transit Database which includes layover time at the end of the line while the driver takes about five minutes to walk to the other end of the train and drive it back in the reverse direction. But actual schedule time -- which is what matters to passengers -- will always be faster. The transit industry wants to know end-to-end times because they have to pay the driver for layovers and also for trips from and to the train yard when starting or ending service for a particular train, but these data don't matter otherwise.

 

But here's an idea. Just for the hell of it, one day when you're driving a lot around town in different conditions -- some local streets, some freeway, some peak, some non-peak -- keep track of the minutes you spend behind the wheel and the miles you drive that day and figure your average speed.

 

I bet you won't average more than 21 MPH.

In Wessels' article, no mention of the fake truck-trolleys.

 

Just learned the details of the rail streetcar presentation at City Hall.

 

It's to the Economic Development Committee at Noon on Tuesday, May 22nd.

 

There will first be a half-hour presentation by city staff and its consultants on the project, followed by speakers from the public at large (you) for and against the streetcar. You'll need to get and fill-out a yellow Speaker's Card from the Clerk's Desk, and you will be given three minutes to make your case.

 

Bring a friend if you can.

There will first be a half-hour presentation by city staff and its consultants on the project, followed by speakers from the public at large (you) for and against the streetcar. You'll need to get and fill-out a yellow Speaker's Card from the Clerk's Desk, and you will be given three minutes to make your case.

 

I would love to go and speak, but I have training in Mason that day.  :(  Do you think there will be another chance?

There will first be a half-hour presentation by city staff and its consultants on the project, followed by speakers from the public at large (you) for and against the streetcar. You'll need to get and fill-out a yellow Speaker's Card from the Clerk's Desk, and you will be given three minutes to make your case.

 

I would love to go and speak, but I have training in Mason that day.  :(  Do you think there will be another chance?

 

I'd write letters to city council members that arrive at their offices the day before the presentation. Letters are always better than emails.

"We should really be talking to them not only about highway enhancements, but we've got to be talking about a high-speed rail connection, linking those two metro regions together," he said. "We are a powerful block when it comes to new business."

 

Its reassuring that at least someone in politics is thinking about this kind of thing....seems like such a no-brainer!!!

 

In Wessels' article, no mention of the fake truck-trolleys.

 

Just learned the details of the rail streetcar presentation at City Hall.

 

It's to the Economic Development Committee at Noon on Tuesday, May 22nd.

 

There will first be a half-hour presentation by city staff and its consultants on the project, followed by speakers from the public at large (you) for and against the streetcar. You'll need to get and fill-out a yellow Speaker's Card from the Clerk's Desk, and you will be given three minutes to make your case.

 

Bring a friend if you can.

 

Cool, I'll try to attend and try to bring a bunch of people along with me!

"We should really be talking to them not only about highway enhancements, but we've got to be talking about a high-speed rail connection, linking those two metro regions together," he said. "We are a powerful block when it comes to new business."

 

Its reassuring that at least someone in politics is thinking about this kind of thing....seems like such a no-brainer!!!

 

In Wessels' article, no mention of the fake truck-trolleys.

 

Just learned the details of the rail streetcar presentation at City Hall.

 

It's to the Economic Development Committee at Noon on Tuesday, May 22nd.

 

There will first be a half-hour presentation by city staff and its consultants on the project, followed by speakers from the public at large (you) for and against the streetcar. You'll need to get and fill-out a yellow Speaker's Card from the Clerk's Desk, and you will be given three minutes to make your case.

 

Bring a friend if you can.

 

Cool, I'll try to attend and try to bring a bunch of people along with me!

 

Numbers of people at council hearings do make an impact. People are still talking about all the people who showed up at OKI last month to see Chris Bortz's presentation on the streetcar.

 

 

I agree...my particular effort is to get more young people to show up to these events/forums etc.  The OKI meeting was packed, but only included about 10-20% young people (under 30).  It would look even more impressive if the room was packed with YPs just salivating over the potential of increased transit services!

I'll go...24 years old.  i could bring some people

I'll try and go..I don't have a class until 6pm that Tuesday.

When, where, and what time?

When, where, and what time?

 

Noon, May 22nd at City Hall, 801 Plum Street, room unknown but probably in Council Chambers on the Third Floor. Bring a cast of thousands.

what if we got 10 guys and painted each letter of streetcars on our chest.  we'd be like the bleacher bums at GABP...then we'd probably get tasered by Cincy PD

It's worth the risk.

what if we got 10 guys and painted each letter of streetcars on our chest.  we'd be like the bleacher bums at GABP...then we'd probably get tasered by Cincy PD

 

Umm ... no. But bring the ten guys -- and ten girls.

This is UrbanOhio. It would be twenty guys. That's it.

oh believe me, it'd rather have 10 girls paint letters on their chest, but i don't think that would be likely...in all seriousness, i'll see if i can come

This is UrbanOhio. It would be twenty guys. That's it.

 

More like 25 guys and one girl.  ;)  There are a few females here.

Someone please post a recap when the meeting does occur. I'd like to see if Lexington would be receptive to something like this, mainly because we have a "spoke-and-hub" transportation network and light-rail would be great for the spokes to the outlying suburbs.

New summer trolley coming downtown

BY JOHN ECKBERG | [email protected]

May 10, 2007

 

DOWNTOWN - Downtown Cincinnati is in line for a new trolley that will operate each Friday during the summer.

 

Two Round Town trolleys will run from 11 a.m. to 2 p.m. Fridays from June 1 to Aug. 31 courtesy of the Procter & Gamble Co. and the Regional Tourism Network.

 

“The whole idea of the trolley is to build on success of the trolleys we ran over the holidays. We found that ridership kept increasing and it was great for people to hop on and hop off. The point is to connect downtown office workers to programming at the square and to encourage people to get outside of their one-block normal routine,” said Emily Johnson, associate vice president marketing and communications for Downtown Cincinnati Inc., a non-profit group charged with promoting downtown Cincinnati.

 

Starting at Fountain Square, the trolley buses will run along Fifth Street to the Taft Museum, west on Fourth Street, then to Elm, back to Fifth, east to Vine and north to Central Parkway, east to Sycamore Street, south and back east on Fifth to continue the loop.

 

The trolley will stop at existing bus stops along the route.

 

Meanwhile, two new events will be held during May on Fountain Square.

 

Macy’s plans to bring 2004 American Idol contestant Diana DeGarmo, a preview of fashions from the University of Cincinnati’s Design, Architecture, Art and Planning and several entertainers to Fountain Square on May 19.

 

“Macy’s Fashion on the Square will be an exciting showcase,” said Bill Donabedian, Cincinnati Center City Development Corp’s. managing director for the square. “It will be one of the most inspiring fashion events Cincinnati has ever hosted.”

 

The event, which also features singers Justin and Tasha Golden and the Hip Hop Kidz begins at 6 p.m. with DeGarmo and the Hip Hop Kidz to perform at 8 p.m.

DeGarmo can be heard on the song “Reachin’ for Heaven” on the Disney soundtrack to “ice Princess.”

 

The square also will be the site May 24 for an attempt at the world’s largest Mento fountain.

 

About 500 people are expected to put on rain parkas, then simultaneously load the candy – made by Perfetti Van Melle USA, headquartered in Erlanger – into individual bottles of soft drinks to create a chemical reaction that leads to gushing liquid.

11am to 2pm one day of the week huh?  Whatever happened to a 24/7 downtown?

odd route for the buses

11am to 2pm one day of the week huh?  Whatever happened to a 24/7 downtown?

 

It's s complementary service from P&G and it should be applauded even if it is a one day a week.  What it does show is P&G is clearly in favor of a transit system in the CBD. I am sure behind the scenes they will be a huge positive influence on the upcoming streetcar campaign.

 

^ I'm going to be not in favor of this. One day a week is a half-ass attempt at bringing "transit" back to the downtown. Transit in quotes because it is only one day a week, which would not be used by commuters, or residents, etc.

 

And if this idea fails and is not expanded upon soon, you're going to have the usual naysayers come up and say, "Told you so! Transit and streetcars will NOT work in the downtown!"

^ I'm going to be not in favor of this. One day a week is a half-ass attempt at bringing "transit" back to the downtown. Transit in quotes because it is only one day a week, which would not be used by commuters, or residents, etc.

 

And if this idea fails and is not expanded upon soon, you're going to have the usual naysayers come up and say, "Told you so! Transit and streetcars will NOT work in the downtown!"

 

Yep

is this a positive sign that P&G might be looking towards investing in public transportation downtown?  Instead of having the fifth and main stop it could be the PG stop. 

 

While I wouldn't put anything past anyone, I hope this bus plan isn't the result of some machinations to sabotage transit, [after all what does PG have to gain from it] but is just a misguided attempt to increase foot traffic downtown. 

 

Also I wonder what the head times are going to be on the busses.  I would guess too long to be usable.

While I wouldn't put anything past anyone, I hope this bus plan isn't the result of some machinations to sabotage transit, [after all what does PG have to gain from it] but is just a misguided attempt to increase foot traffic downtown. 

 

I would guess the latter...P&G has no reason to sabotage the streetcar plan.  They are one of the biggest complainers about having trouble attracting young/talented people here...and most often that is due to the lack of a real transit system (among other things).  I would certainly hope that P&G, Federated, UC, Health Alliance/other hospitals Uptown and XU will all end up being major proponents of a larger/more comprehensive transit system...these organizations, in particular, would certainly have MUCH to gain.

 

Bottom line, I think this trolley thing will do nothing but create/rally the naysayers.  But in all honesty, it doesn't matter!!!  Those naysayers will almost without a doubt be from the 'burbs, and will have NO say in the matter.  They can see the real streetcar system and then make a final decision.  City residents have shown that they are supportive of increased transit service and options.  I see this as being nothing more than the typical suburban bullsh!t.  Don't sweat it, the real streetcar system will have the lasting impression over the faux trolley thingee.