^Great news to hear!

We were downtown Saturday night and we where all thinking of how nice it would have been to be able to use the streetcar to bar hop.  We started at Omaily's in the Aley and ended up on 7th and finally Main St.

If we all hold strong we should have the streetcar up and running before we know it.  The crucial time is approaching for votes on this; so now is the time to remind City Council members of your support for the streetcar and urge them to support it as well.

 

WRITE LETTERS TO:

Cincinnati City Hall, 801 Plum Street

Cincinnati, OH 45202

 

CINCINNATI CITY COUNCIL MEMBERS:

Vice Mayor David Crowley

Jeff Berding

Laketa Cole

Chris Bortz

John Cranley

Leslie Ghiz

Chris Monzel

Roxanne Qualls

Cecil Thomas

the first video on cincinnati.com is entitled Portland's Streetcars

 

[youtube=425,350]<object width="315" height="330"><param name="movie" value="http://opera.cincinnati.com/netcasts/embedplaysm.swf?vfile=localnews/120507_portland_cincinnati.flv&vname=Portland's streetcars"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://opera.cincinnati.com/netcasts/embedplaySM.swf?vfile=localnews/120507_portland_cincinnati.flv&vname=Portland's streetcars" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="315" height="330"></embed></object>

 

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/AB/20071210/VIDEO/312100060/

I don't know if it was already discussed, but are they planning on integrating the southern end of the streetcar into the Riverfront Transit Center?

^Don't think so!

Here's a question for the Cincy streetcar advocates:

 

What role does the local transit authority or transit provider have in this?  From what I can tell this seems to be an initiative of the City of Cincinnati, so I was curious if Cincinnati Transit has any part in this?

 

How are the operating costs (vs capital cost) going to be subsidized?  I assume that, as in other forms of public transit, fares won't cover operations, so there will have to be some sort of subsidy.  What is the proposed source?

 

I'd appreciate just a brief synopsis rather than a link.

 

 

That video was not what I thought it was going to be.....kinda of strange from the fact that I'm not to sure what they were getting at?  The two point they made were fine, but could have used more content.

 

  Jeffrey

 

  John Schnieder can tell you more but to my knowledge SORTA, operator of Queen City Metro, is expected to operate the streetcar. SORTA has a board of directors, some of which are appointed by the City of Cincinnati. A major part of the funding of SORTA comes from the City of Cincinnati income tax.

 

  SORTA has also been buying up abandoned railroad rights of way and trackage rights when thay have become available.

Thanks, I was curious about the funding as something similar is being proposed for Dayton, except our local transit authority doesn't have the funds to operate it (Daytons transit is funded via a countywide property tax), though it is acting as the convener of a task force to look into the issue.

 

In Cincys case I had thought the city was a lot more involved as I noticed that the city government seems to be very public in support and I think they are going to use a downtown TIF to help with the capital funds...so I was more interested in the operating fund source.

 

But thanks for the response!

Given operations of 18 hours/day, 7 days/week...annual operating costs are projected at $2.3M.  Finances for the entire project are still being ironed out, but potential sources to pay for this are:

 

Source (estimated value)

Fare Revenues ($1.1M)

Advertising & Sponsorships ($280k)

Special Assessments/Improvement Districts ($900k)

 

This totals to $2,280,000 in revenues that are meant to pay for roughly $2,300,000 in expenses...those numbers are pretty close to equaling out, and thus make a pretty attractive proposal.

 

 

I expect that the Cincinnati Streetcar will be owned by the City of Cincinnati and that it will be operated by the city's Department of Transportation.

^--- My Mistake.

So it seems that they are relying on rider revenues....I was hoping the streetcar would be "free" or at least have "free zones", but we'll just have to see.

(100 what!)

Debby, I've think city policymakers have kind of soured on the notion of free fares, perhaps as a result of the Portland experience with Fareless Square, which enables rowdies to board the light rail trains without paying. some people in Portland now seem to think Fareless Square is the first link of a chain that leads to bad behavior on the trains there, such as it is. Since you're there, what do you think of Portland's Fareless Square?

^Aside from discouraging any sense of responsibility or ownership (the same reason there is such a high rate or abandonment of free puppies) free transit on the streetcar is a pretty inefficient way to pay for it.  Instead of charging the people who ride it, you'd be charging the merchant (and therefore their customers) or property owners whose businesses or property would benefit from the value added.  That's quite a round about way of going at it.

Nothing but the facts.

 

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071211/NEWS01/712110346

While I agree with a lot of what's been said about having a fare for the streetcar, one of my favorite things about Portland's streetcar is the free zone.  Not because I wouldn't pay to ride it, but because dropping the fare makes the train run faster.  As opposed to something like the Southbank Shuttle, where a large group boards at NOTL and everyone is forced to wait while they feed dollars into the machine before the bus moves again.

the solution is to put the ticket machines at the stops rather than on the cars (or a little of both).  that way people can pay while they are waiting

^ Why didn't I think of that?  Good idea.

Nothing but the facts.

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071211/NEWS01/712110346

 

For the ease of discussion:

 

Streetcars work for Portland

BY MARGARET A. MCGURK | CINCINNATI ENQUIRER

December 11, 2007

 

PORTLAND, Ore. - When boosters envision a Cincinnati streetcar line running from The Banks to Findlay Market, they pin much of their belief in the idea being an economic boon on what's happened in this Pacific Northwest city.

 

Six years ago, Portland launched a streetcar linking rundown, underused property near downtown to the city center. There were several goals, but the most important was to jump-start development and redevelopment.

 

It worked.

Riding the rails: Easy access, sitting or standing

BY MARGARET A. MCGURK | CINCINNATI ENQUIRER

December 11, 2007

 

PORTLAND, Ore. - This city's streetcar system was designed to be user-friendly. On a recent visit, a group of visitors from Cincinnati - including an Enquirer reporter - spent hours traveling the system to find out what it is like from a rider's point of view. Here is what we observed:

 

Every three to four blocks along the streetcar route, riders wait at stops in three-sided shelters with benches, much like bus shelters.

I know a lot of people might disagree with having drunks on the streetcar at night and people puking, but wouldn't be nice to be able to hop on it after the bars close downtown and take it home to OTR. When i was in Milan they just ran one train and it didn't run much but if the scheduled it right it would work perfectly to run 1 or 2 trains one a 2:30 and one at 3 am. I think this is something that YPs would really like.

^I agree, I think having a couple late night runs would be great.  When we were in Amsterdam we used the streetcar to get back to our hostle at like 3 in the AM and it sure beat walking.

the solution is to put the ticket machines at the stops rather than on the cars (or a little of both).  that way people can pay while they are waiting

 

Something "the man" may want to consider when the streetcar becomes fully operational is to have ticket ATMs that will discharge tickets for parking as well.  You pay for your time, the machine gives you a ticket and you display it in your windshield.  They could start doing this for all downtown.

When the city plans to make its next step, what is it?  Voting? Funding?  When would this happen?

While I agree with a lot of what's been said about having a fare for the streetcar, one of my favorite things about Portland's streetcar is the free zone.  Not because I wouldn't pay to ride it, but because dropping the fare makes the train run faster.  As opposed to something like the Southbank Shuttle, where a large group boards at NOTL and everyone is forced to wait while they feed dollars into the machine before the bus moves again.

 

Not a problem. First there are three doors on each side, two of them double-doors. Second, no one waits to pay. You pay at machines hanging on the wall after you board, even after the car starts moving.

 

If someone tells me how, I'll post a picture of the ticket machine.

Something "the man" may want to consider when the streetcar becomes fully operational is to have ticket ATMs that will discharge tickets for parking as well.  You pay for your time, the machine gives you a ticket and you display it in your windshield.  They could start doing this for all downtown.

 

Those are great.  Much better than carrying change for a parking meter, and typically, if you pay for an hour, that hour is good for all of downtown.  So you could park, pay once, and then park again on the other side of town and keep the same sticker displayed, without worrying about paying again, provided that you're still within your original hour.  I know that we're trying to get away from needing a car in this city, but this type of parking scheme makes running a few quick errands much less of a hassle.

 

 

I know a lot of people might disagree with having drunks on the streetcar at night and people puking, but wouldn't be nice to be able to hop on it after the bars close downtown and take it home to OTR. When i was in Milan they just ran one train and it didn't run much but if the scheduled it right it would work perfectly to run 1 or 2 trains one a 2:30 and one at 3 am. I think this is something that YPs would really like.

 

I agree whole-heartedly with this.  I think the trade off of having intoxicated people on the late trains instead of driving drunk is totally worth it.  It amazes me that you don't see more organizations like MADD advocating mass transit for this very reason, instead of solely lobbying for higher penalties.  You could just run one train that makes the circuit every hour or so between midnight and 3 and it would be enough to cover the demand.  As a YP myself, who enjoys going out, drinking, and shooting pool, I'm not crazy about the idea of wrapping up at 11:30 because I'm too far from home and the last train is due in a few minutes.

 

 

While I agree with a lot of what's been said about having a fare for the streetcar, one of my favorite things about Portland's streetcar is the free zone.  Not because I wouldn't pay to ride it, but because dropping the fare makes the train run faster.  As opposed to something like the Southbank Shuttle, where a large group boards at NOTL and everyone is forced to wait while they feed dollars into the machine before the bus moves again.

 

Not a problem. First there are three doors on each side, two of them double-doors. Second, no one waits to pay. You pay at machines hanging on the wall after you board, even after the car starts moving.

 

If someone tells me how, I'll post a picture of the ticket machine.

 

Cool.  My hotel, office, and regular haunts in Portland are all within the "Free Zone" so I probably never noticed that ticket machine.

While I agree with a lot of what's been said about having a fare for the streetcar, one of my favorite things about Portland's streetcar is the free zone.  Not because I wouldn't pay to ride it, but because dropping the fare makes the train run faster.  As opposed to something like the Southbank Shuttle, where a large group boards at NOTL and everyone is forced to wait while they feed dollars into the machine before the bus moves again.

 

Not a problem. First there are three doors on each side, two of them double-doors. Second, no one waits to pay. You pay at machines hanging on the wall after you board, even after the car starts moving.

 

If someone tells me how, I'll post a picture of the ticket machine.

 

Here is an image of the ticket machines that John was talking about.  In this particular image you can see the machine on the left of the picture against the inside of the train car.

so how are they going to enforce paying?  Are they going to have random checks for tickets?  If you get caught w/out a ticket, whats the penalty?

Boy are they just prepairing to tear up the streetcar project on WLW700.  They keep advertising for Willy's show at noon called "Project streetcar disaster"  AARRGGHHHH...that makes me mad!

I thought someone in this thread said that Willy liked the streetcar.  Maybe it was someone else.  I don't listen to WLW, so I can't keep their on-air personalities straight.

in his october 17th? interview with John Schnieder he was positive, then yesterday he was negative, who knows about today.

Maybe he hasn't had his morning coffee buzz?  WLW is like most Clear Channel Stations: creating controversy or negative promotions just to build an audience.  WTVN-Radio here in Columbus is the same way.  They pretty much pander to the portion of the audience that's a little to the right of Atilla the Hun.

He was for the streetcar project when John was on the show.

 

I have given up on that Bastard within the last couple weeks!      He is a media (back stabbing) hypocrite.   Pure and simple.       

 

700 can take a long walk off a short pier.   I haven't listened to wlw (and will not) since he started chanting "Marvin Shula" rantings.   

 

What an Idiot!!!!!!!!

 

Boy are they just prepairing to tear up the streetcar project on WLW700.  They keep advertising for Willy's show at noon called "Project streetcar disaster"  AARRGGHHHH...that makes me mad!

 

I know, I was listening to Scott Sloan last night and he was hating too big time.  That ticks me off, these people just don't understand what it takes to attract young people anymore.

What's really unfortunate is that 700 is the most listened to radio station in the Cincinnati market.  So lots of people will hear Billy's incoherent ramblings.

^Not only that, but you can listen to WLW700 on XM radio.  What a shame that all they will do is trash talk the city when we could use it promote the city to a national audience.

^Not only that, but you can listen to WLW700 on XM radio.  What a shame that all they will do is trash talk the city when we could use it promote the city to a national audience.

 

The most upsetting thing is that 700 WLW was founded by a man who loved his city and believed in it, much like many other corporations of the time who have since turned their back on the city that made them great

The most upsetting thing is that 700 WLW was founded by a man who loved his city and believed in it, much like many other corporations of the time who have since turned their back on the city that made them great

 

^Great point.  That is a real tragedy, and one of the many horrible things about large media corporations.  Back in the day when radio and TV stations were locally owned, they actually produced their own programming.  No you just get whatever corporate puts out.  This is progress?  I'm sure Steve Allen was objectively funnier than Paul Dixon, but it's still a shame that there isn't room for guys like that anymore.

 

But I wouldn't worry too much about Willie.  What these corporate media hacks gain in audience share they lose in influence.

I listen to WLW700 just for a background sound while I'm at work.  I've learned not to take anything to seriously on that show.

Actually, I think Bill Cunningham has become a lot more open-minded in the ten or so years I've been appearing on his show and often talking about this issue. He totally understands the logic.

 

However, I can't think of any medium that has its economic interests more at odds with higher-level transit than talk-radio does. Why would talk radio ever want to get people out of their cars? Institutionally, on this issue, talk-radio is an out-and-out opponent.

However, I can't think of any medium that has its economic interests more at odds with higher-level transit than talk-radio does. Why would talk radio ever want to get people out of their cars? Institutionally, on this issue, talk-radio is an out-and-out opponent.

 

What a good, and should be obvious point...I have never thought of that before.  You are soo wise John.

^Not only radio, but newspapers make a ton of money off of car advertising, new and used.  Better mass transit wouldn't immediately reduce the number of cars per capita whereas time in cars would be immediately reduced, the time when people listen to talk radio.  Also, Cunningham's pretty funny because whenever he flip-flops on an issue (which he does frequently depending on his guest), he always jokes that the "tapes have been destroyed".  In his own words, at 700 if "you're not #1, you're gone", so nobody can just do what they want and express their own opinions at will.  But according to stats I've heard (which might be off) he gets on average more than 200,000 listeners per day, neck-and-neck if not a bit more than the Enquirer's daily circulation.  So him, Seg Dennison, and a producer get as big of an audience as a medium-sized downtown office building full of people on salary, a hundred or so workers at the press, and a couple hundred delivery people.         

 

In England, The Guardian makes almost all of its money off something called the "Auto Trader", which had a virtual monopoly on used car sales in England for many years, but Craigslist and other online sites have been putting a big dent in that revenue.  That paper has a trust fund that supports it in times of low revenue but it might not be able to overcome the loss of the Auto Trader without having to sell out.   

However, I can't think of any medium that has its economic interests more at odds with higher-level transit than talk-radio does. Why would talk radio ever want to get people out of their cars? Institutionally, on this issue, talk-radio is an out-and-out opponent.

 

What a good, and should be obvious point...I have never thought of that before.  You are soo wise John.

 

Big +1

In our building, the number of people who lived outside of Cincinnati and moved here directly to downtown is about 50%.  I think that a large number of people powering the heart of the regrowth (by that i mean buying the houses and living downtown) are from outside where streetcars and urban life is more common and less vilified.  They especially don't know or care about WLW.

 

In Europe, where we lived last year, most street cars are paid for on the honor system.  They have cops on cars, on occasion, checking for tickets and if you don't have one it it a huge fine (50-75 euros).  If enforcement is strong early, the reputation may allow a similar system to work here.

The streetcars make noise, but are noticeably quieter - both inside and outside - than buses.

 

In the summer with our windows open, the buses are unbelievably loud. I would gladly trade several street cars for a bus.

I'd also point that people actually need something to read on mass transit be they newspapers or blackberry's, but visual content returns to the fore. Since there is one uniform rule on major mass transit systems of the world, which is never make eye contact with someone else you need to buy newspapers to keep yourself busy. Now the streetcar might get 100 cars off the street maybe however when the more commuter style transit systems are in place then the Enquirer will be lame while moving and not just laying on my kitchen counter.

In the summer with our windows open, the buses are unbelievably loud.  I would gladly trade several street cars for a bus.

I must second this sentiment.  On the annoying noise level, buses come somewhere between thumpers and the ice-cream man.

I like the idea of using the honor system for the streetcars.  If it's enforced early that will set the tone for the future.

Letters to the editor 12/15/07

 

Portland 'works' by driving out poor people

 

Regarding the article "Streetcars work for Portland" (Dec. 11): Gee, if it works for Portland, it must be good, right?

 

Yes, it works if you are green, have cash enough to do whatever you want, and hide the fact that by driving low-income people out of the inner city you are contributing to urban sprawl and racism at the same time.

 

Workers who clean and support the glitz of Portland used to live downtown or near it. Now, they can only afford to live 30 to 40 miles upriver and now have to commute - not via Skoda Trams - to work

 

Ned Hamson

Mount Healthy

 

FOES OF STREETCARS EASY TO CARICATURE

 

The case for streetcars is pretty clear, however, the opposition from sclerotic Buick and Oldsmobile fanciers will be formidable, providing rich opportunities for Jim Borgman.

 

Albert Pyle

West End