wtf?

 

While Cinci may have more snow and may be more cold, Portland is one of the wetter areas in the United States. I guess I just prefer snow over rain :)

^Actually, Cincinnati and Portland each get about 40 inches of rain per year. But it's generally cloudy in Portland most of every day from October until May. That's why Portlanders drink so much coffee. And have so many psychiatrists.

Why do people think that what was good for Portland of the Pacific Northwest will be good for Cincinnati, in the heart of the Midwest?

 

Well then why does he think that what was disappointing for Buffalo of the Northeast will be disappointing for Cincinnati, in the heart of the Midwest?

 

And since when are a streetcar and a subway the same thing?  It's funny that he has issues with people comparing Cincy's streetcar to Portland's streetcar, but somehow he has no qualms about comparing our streetcar with Buffalo's subway.  At least we're talking about the same type of transit, and ours is even modeled on Portland's!  Jeez...

^Totally agreed...I also didn't realize that Cincinnati was in the "heart of the midwest."

I wonder what Freud would say about this infatuation with tunnels!!!!    :-D

With the lowering for the Federal interest rates, shouldn't they be trying to get financing now while the rates are lower?

^If I was the city I'd play the market, you might get a lower interest rate when the possible recession becomes a true recession after the Fed's latest move.

 

On the flip side, the possibly impending recession may make banks and bonding agencies less likely to lend money. So, it's a double edged sword.

Does anyone know what the Cincinnati's credit rating is? If it's pretty good i'm sure it wouldn't be a problem getting low interest bonds. I don't think they ever missed a payment on the stadiums.

^It would probably cause the streetcars themselves to be more expensive if we buy them from Europe with our de-valued currency (lower interest rates increases the monetary supply), but that's only a fraction of the total cost. The real success of the project will depend on future interest rates and how they effect real estate and our economy because most of the success will be measured by increase in property values along the corridor and the streetcar is projected to spur something like 1.5 Billion dollars in investment (according to the streetcar feasibility study PDF file). If the area improves, I'd imagine it would increase ridership, bringing in more revenue as well.

^ I think I remember hearing that a company in Oregon is now building streetcars based on the design of the European ones that Portland uses.  I believe they only bought the initial trains from Europe because it was much faster than designing and building them here.  Assuming that's true, I'd guess that we're getting the actual trains from Oregon, not Europe.

Nice.

Does anyone know what the Cincinnati's credit rating is? If it's pretty good i'm sure it wouldn't be a problem getting low interest bonds. I don't think they ever missed a payment on the stadiums.

 

The city and county bond ratings are two different things.

 

Moody's rates the City at Aa1, I think Standard and Poors is AA+. Those are good.

^Oregon Iron Works is going to be building streetcars based on the Inekon Skoda design. I haven't heard that there are any orders yet.

 

 

REPOSTED FROM ANOTHER PAGE - VERY RELEVANT TO THE STREETCAR:

 

http://money.cnn.com/2008/01/14/news/companies/taylor_detroit_nissan_future.fortune/index.htm?postversion=2008011409

 

Excerpts:

 

Nissan exec: Car culture is fading

Worldwide, people are losing interest in automobiles, one executive says.

By Alex Taylor, Fortune senior editor

 

DETROIT (Fortune) -- If you are looking for some insight into what the automobile of the future will look like you could do worse than talk with Tom Lane. An American, he runs all of Nissan's Product Strategy anad Product Planning from his office in Tokyo...

 

...He notes that consumers in Japan are losing their mojo when it comes to cars. The population is aging, and younger drivers would rather spend their money on new cellphones and Internet access.

 

"Japan is increasingly not interested in new cars," he says.

 

The population in Europe is aging too, and Lane sees similar ennui spreading there. As car ownership becomes more expensive and cities increasingly impose congestion pricing on car usage in center cities, he sees car owners switching to mass transit for their daily commute, and then renting cars for longer trips.

 

"The U.S. is headed that way," he says. "The challenge for us, going forward, is a more interesting offer. Doing a better Sentra or an Altima isn't going to do it."

REPOSTED FROM ANOTHER PAGE - VERY RELEVANT TO THE STREETCAR:

 

http://money.cnn.com/2008/01/14/news/companies/taylor_detroit_nissan_future.fortune/index.htm?postversion=2008011409

 

I read a great eye opening book recently "How to live well without owning a car" by Chris Balish I reccomend it to anyone thinking about ditching the car.

 

 

Streetcars are critical for Cincinnati's continued growth

BY BRAD THOMAS | DOWNTOWNER - GUEST COLUMN

January 29, 2008

 

The construction of a modern streetcar system is important not just for the continued growth of downtown Cincinnati, but for the region as a whole. The Cincinnati Streetcar, running from northwest Over-the-Rhine to southeast downtown, will spur new housing and retail in the urban core. The streetcar is projected to create $1.4 billion dollars of economic development along the route. It will create a more walkable and vibrant city.

 

The influx of new residents, new stores and new activity will get more eyes out on the street, leading to fewer opportunities for criminals. Crime in Over-the-Rhine is down more than 35 percent in the past two years. Building the Cincinnati Streetcar will only help this trend continue.

 

The streetcar's benefits will not only help the urban core, but also the entire region will benefit from the Cincinnati Streetcar. Expanding the streetcar to Northern Kentucky and uptown to the University of Cincinnati and the hospitals will connect the largest employment centers in the region and add many new destinations along the line.

 

More importantly, the streetcar will change perceptions about the city. It will stand as a tangible symbol of progress. Cincinnati is a city that too often looks to its failures instead of its successes. The streetcar, along with a new tallest building and the long-awaited construction of The Banks, will help defeat that stigma.

 

In order to continue growing, the region must attract and retain young professionals. Automobile-dependant suburbs with houses on large lots and quiet streets appeal to many people, but there is parity among virtually every city in the country when it comes to the suburbs. If someone wishes to live in a McMansion and eat at Applebee's, what is the greater appeal of the McMansion and Applebee's in West Chester over the McMansion and Applebee's in Phoenix, or Atlanta, or Columbus? Climate, location and the draw of the region's core make the difference. While two of the three can't be changed, strengthening the center city can make our whole area more attractive, and the streetcar will do just that.

 

Thousands of students graduate from our region's universities each year. If we have a dense, vibrant core, we will able to retain a larger number of them. New investment in the core will lead to more jobs, population and economic growth, benefiting all of Greater Cincinnati.

City leaders should aggressively pursue the construction of the Cincinnati Streetcar. Citizens should write their council members, telling them to support the streetcar. Within the next month, City Council's Finance Committee will examine the financing for the Cincinnati Streetcar. It is important to attend that meeting and voice support for the project.

 

The GO Cincinnati report, a study commissioned by Mayor Mallory outlining recommendations for a strategic approach for economic development, stated, "there is probably no infrastructure investment that will have more long term and tax-generation benefit to the City than the streetcar line." This is an opportunity for the City of Cincinnati to make a bold statement of progress, to increase jobs and to grow its population. An investment in the Cincinnati Streetcar will move our city forward and help the continued revitalization of the urban core.

 

Brad Thomas is the founder of the Web site www.cincystreetcar.com.

^ Is this by one of our own?

There was an earlier posting about breaks in the new rails being installed in Phoenix. Someone in the international light rail mafia mail posted this comment in another blog ...

 

"Phoenix appears to be experiencing breaks in the rail caused by wide temperature fluctuations between the time the rail was installed & now during extremely cold weather, which is nearly a 100 degree fluctuation causing the rail laid in the heat of summer to pull apart in winter months.

 

Here's the story: http://www.abc15.com/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=685acd88-3646-4ac5-bf89-53a5f477cb50

Here it is:

 

Cranley: LOTS of Streetcar Questions

 

Councilman John Cranley, chairman of the finance committee, says he'll schedule a committee hearing about the proposal to bring streetcars to Cincinnati - as soon as he gets answers from the city administration to his questions about the plan.

 

 

 

Nine pages worth of questions. Among them: what's the population of Over-the-Rhine? How long does it take to walk from Fountain Square to Findlay Market? What projects will need to be cut to fund the streetcar?

 

 

 

What do you think? Is Cranley asking legitimate questions? Or trying to sabotage the idea?

 

 

Read all his questions here.

 

posted by Jane Prendergast at 1/31/2008 11:15:00 AM

 

 

Here are the questions

 

QUESTIONS FROM THE STREETCAR FEASIBILITY STUDY

I. Financing

a. What projects will need to be cut to fund the streetcar project?

b. How many lane miles can be repaved with the $30 million in capital dollars that are proposed for the construction of the streetcar?

c. What is the capacity of the downtown TIF districts?

d. If these TIF districts are used as sources, how much capacity will be left?

e. How much money from these TIF districts does 3CDC need to complete its long-term and short-term plan for downtown and Over-the-Rhine? Please request an answer of this question from 3CDC.

f. How much money is likely to be requested by the proponents of the Brewery District?

g. After accounting for the needs of 3CDC and the Brewery District, would the downtown and Over-the-Rhine TIF districts retain any capacity?  If so, how much?

h. Will the use of the $10 million from the Blue Ash proceeds leave any of those funds available for neighborhoods?  If so, how much?

i. Please breakdown the funding plan specifically.

j. How much has been spent on the streetcar project?  Please include staff time dedicated to the streetcar project.

k. How was the money for the Feasibility Study expended?

l. How was the money for the Feasibility Study authorized? 

m. Was there a specific appropriation by Council for the Feasibility Study? 

n. How much private money has been committed to the project and who has committed it?

o. Will construction of the streetcar not begin until the $30 million from the private sector is raised?

p. In the PowerPoint presentation given to the Economic Development committee, one source of funding discussed for operations was a special assessment district.  In particular, it was expected to generate $900,000 per annum.  Are you proposing creating a new special improvement district under section 1710 of the Ohio Revised Code, levying a special assessment under section 727 of the Ohio Revised Code, or some other mechanism?

i. Is this special assessment/improvement district already established? 

ii. Is it fair to assume that construction of the streetcar will not proceed until the special improvement/assessment districts are in place? 

A. If you are proposing to levy a special assessment under section 727 please answer the following:

iii. Are the property owners aware that you are proposing a tax increase?  Have they consented?  Do you plan to impose the assessment even if they do not consent?

iv. How can you use these funds for operating expenses on a recurring basis when the total amount that can be generated by the assessment is 80% of the total cost of the improvement?

B. If you propose creating/using a special improvement district please answer the following:

v. There currently is a special improvement district downtown, which funds DCI.  Does the administration propose eliminating and/or converting DCI’s special improvement district to streetcar funding?  If so, has DCI consented or been consulted? 

vi. Any evidence that downtown property owners are willing to pay an additional special levy for a streetcar? 

vii. Has there been any attempt to identify a possible special improvement district in Over-the-Rhine? 

viii. How much would such a district in Over-the-Rhine have to generate? 

 

II. Economic Impact

a. Page 21 of the study discusses the economic impact of the streetcar, specifically the growth in useable housing stock. 

i. For each of the other cities listed, how much additional public subsidy (i.e. excluding the streetcar) was put into developing those units?

b. The Feasibility Study on page 22 states that using a conservative estimate that there are 1574 housing units that can be converted to use along the streetcar route.

i. Does the plan include any funding for converting these 1574 units? 

ii. Isn’t it true, according to the experience of 3CDC, that condo

redevelopment requires a minimum of $50,000 subsidy per unit?   And isn’t it true that subsidies for apartments are higher?  Please answer by evaluating 3CDC’s Gateway Project, and include any publicly contributed amounts from non-city sources, i.e. New Market Tax Credits. 

iii. Where will the city get the money for the subsidy per unit to meet the projected 1574 housing units associated with the streetcar? 

iv. If the streetcar reduces the required subsidy on a per unit basis, how much does it reduce the subsidy?  Please provide specific market analysis from another city. How was that analysis made? 

v. Are any developers willing to develop these units without a subsidy?  Who? 

vi. If the city alternatively spent $100 million to revitalize these 1574 units, wouldn’t it be cheaper than subsidizing these units and building the streetcar? 

c. The study discusses vacant land and surface parking in downtown and Over-the-Rhine on page 23.

i. How much of this vacant land and surface parking is along the proposed route?  Please list the addresses.

d. Page 23 of the Feasibility Study states that on the low end 107 housing units will be made from vacant land or surface parking on annual basis as a result of the streetcar. 

i. What is the average subsidy on a per unit basis for new construction in the city? Please answer by referring to Parker Flats.

ii. Where will we get the money to pay for this required subsidy?

iii. How many vacant lots are properly zoned for residential conversion?

iv. Will the construction wait until after the land is rezoned? 

v. How much of the vacant land is in a historic area or historic overlay district?

vi. What limitations does this impose for property development? 

vii. Does the city propose to undo the historic area and overlay district rules in order to reach the goal of adding 100 new housing units on vacant land annually? 

viii. If so, have the community councils consented? 

ix. Will any zone changes that are necessary to meet the stated economic outcomes destroy the architectural significance of the buildings or districts?

 

III. Ridership

a. The Feasibility Study discusses preliminary ridership estimates on page 15. 

i. Were preliminary ridership estimates done for the alternative routes?  Please provide the ridership numbers associated with the alternate routes.

ii. Was  ridership greater for the proposed alignment than the alternatives? If so, why? 

b. Further on page 15 the Feasibility Study discusses the three classes of trips that will be made on the streetcar: internal trips, external trips, and special event trips.

i. What percentage of trips will be internal, external, and special event trips respectively? 

ii. How were the initial ridership estimates made? 

iii. What formula was utilized? Is it based on the number of workers downtown, or workers within a block or two of the streetcar?  Is it based on how many workers eat out? 

iv. How did the city arrive at these numbers? 

v. Were these numbers drawn from other streetcar markets?  For each of the other markets (Portland, etc.), how many people worked and lived near the line when it opened, how many shops, restaurants, etc. were there? 

c. Page 11 of the Feasibility Study lists the purposes for which the streetcar will be used.  The first purpose is to get to work. 

i. How many people live within two blocks of the proposed route and how many will need to use the streetcar to get to work?  How did you generate these numbers? 

ii. Is the projection based on existing or hoped for population figures? 

iii. How many people do you project will drive to downtown or Over-the-Rhine and then use the streetcar to complete their commute to work? 

iv. Where will these commuters park to ride the proposed streetcar? 

v. Will anybody park at Findlay Market?  How many? 

vi. Will any new structures be needed for parking?  Where and at what cost? 

vii. What percentage of streetcar riders will consist of those making the trip to and from work? 

d. The second use for the streetcar is shopping: how many will use the streetcar for shopping purposes on a daily basis?  What percentage of the total ridership does this constitute? 

e. The third use is entertainment:  how many will use the streetcar for entertainment purposes on a daily basis?  What percentage of the total ridership does this constitute? 

f. The Feasibility Study asserts on pages 2 and 11 that the streetcar will be used to take downtown workers to lunch. 

i. How many workers are expected to use the streetcar to eat out? 

ii. How many lunch restaurants are available along the Over-the-Rhine portions of the streetcar route? 

iii. How long would it take the average downtown worker to leave work, get to the restaurant, eat lunch, and return to work?  Will a worker have enough time to take the streetcar to lunch during a typical one-hour lunch break?

iv. What is the expected loss to downtown restaurateurs as a result of the streetcar, if downtown workers take the streetcar to Over-the-Rhine for lunch?

v. How long does it take to walk from Fountain Square to Findlay Market?

vi. Wouldn’t it be quicker and cheaper to drive or ride a bike? 

vii. How long does it take to walk from the Kroger building to Fountain Square? 

viii. If it is faster to take the streetcar, how much faster?

 

 

IV. Construction

a. On page 10 of the Feasibility Study there is a picture labeled “Typical Track Construction”.  This picture indicates that laying track will cause a major disruption to downtown traffic. 

i. How long will the track take to construct? 

ii. How many lanes and roads will it shut-down?  For how long? 

iii. Have property owners and business owners along the route consented to this plan?

b. On page 13 of the study it states that the streetcar costs $22 million per track mile. How does this compare with the cost of repaving a lane mile in the city?

c. How much will we be needing for annual maintenance and for street track repair?

V. Fares

a. The study assumes on page 16 that the highest fare level is $1, which is 50 cents cheaper than SORTA’s base fare.  Why is it justified to make circulation cheaper than commuting?

VI. Operations

a. The Feasibility Study asserts on page 11 that streetcars will operate every ten minutes during peak times. 

i. What happens if a streetcar breaks down along a route? 

ii. How do you get a broken streetcar out of the right of way? 

iii. Will it prevent other streetcars from passing? 

iv. What is the average disruption for a breakdown? 

v. Who does the plan presume will operate the streetcar? 

vi. Will SORTA operate the streetcar?  If not, why not? 

vii. Will the workforce that operates the streetcar be unionized? 

viii. If it will be unionized, is that cost factored into the $2.3 million operating cost? 

VII. Practical Alternatives to Streetcars

a. On page 15 the study states that the streetcar is an urban circulator, not a commuter service. 

i. If the city were to invest $100 million in a commuter service (i.e. bus service) how many people would it serve? 

ii. What would an additional $100 million given to SORTA do to expand ridership?

iii. How many additional people could ride METRO if we gave them an additional $2.3 million annually that it will take to operate the streetcar? 

iv. What would the economic impact to downtown be if we gave such funding to SORTA?  Would it be greater than the streetcar? 

v. There is talk of expanding the streetcar to Uptown.  How much would it cost SORTA to build a rubber tire trolley along the proposed route to Uptown?

b. The Southwest Ohio Transit Authority currently maintains several bus routes within the study area.

i. Was SORTA or any transit agency asked to test the proposed alignment route as a bus route and test ridership levels? 

ii. Is there any data to suggest what bus ridership may be along any of the alternative routes?   

iii. How much money would it cost SORTA to run rubber-tire trolleys along these routes? 

iv. How does the cost of rubber tire trolleys compare with the streetcar?

v. The Feasibility Study on page 8 lists a number of extension routes, how much does each cost to build and operate? 

vi. How much would it cost to purchase and operate rubber tire trolleys along these extensions?

vii. Does SORTA have any existing routes that mirror these extensions?

 

VIII. Demographic Considerations

a. On page 20 of the study it discusses historical population trends. 

i. Why do these graphs not take into account that the City has experienced population growth since 2000? 

ii. How does the fact that the population assumptions are wrong affect the study?

iii. The numbers assert that downtown is shrinking, but isn’t it true that the downtown population has doubled in the last couple of years?

iv. What is the current population of downtown and Over-the-Rhine? 

 

IX. Process of choosing proposed alignment

a. On page 5 of Appendix A of the Feasibility Study it states there were over 50 members of the Stakeholder Working Group (hereafter SWG) and then lists 47 members.

i. Please list all voting members of the SWG that are not listed on pages 5 and 6.

ii. Please provide a list of all the votes taken by the SWG.  For each please list the resolution voted on and the outcome of the vote. 

iii. Were the votes done by roll call?  If so, please provide the roll call. 

iv. What was attendance at each of the three meetings of the SWG?  Please list those who attended. 

v. Who appointed the members of the SWG and under whose authority were they appointed?

vi. Did the SWG include every business owner along the proposed alignment?  If not, which were included and on what basis? 

b. On page 6 of Appendix A of the Feasibility Study it states that the SWG confirmed the Project Management Team’s selection of a study alignment. 

i. What qualified the SWG to make such a decision? 

ii. Why was it decided to let the SWG vote on this $100 million decision regarding the proposed alignment, rather than let City Council decide? 

iii. Who decided that City Council should not make the final decision? 

iv. Have any members of the SWG made pledges toward the $30 million in private contributions to help build the streetcar?  If so, who and how much? 

v. Were there any members of the SWG that opposed any or all of the streetcar plans?  If so, who and what was the basis of their objection(s)?

vi. Please provide all minutes from all meetings of the stakeholder group and the project management team.  Who called such meetings?  Who was notified of such meetings? How was notice made?  Please provide copies of all notices.

c. The Feasibility Study states, on page 5, that the study area is bounded by “…Liberty and McMicken to the north, the Ohio River to the south, I-71 to the east, and I-75 to the west.” 

i. Who decided the limits of the study area? 

ii. Why was Uptown, with its 60,000 jobs, not included in the study area? 

iii. Also on page 5 the study discusses selecting a study alignment.  How were the three alignments proposed? 

iv. Why was each alignment proposed?

 

 

These are my personal favorite questions!!  :-D

 

iii.  How much money would it cost SORTA to run rubber-tire trolleys along these routes? 

iv.  How does the cost of rubber tire trolleys compare with the streetcar?

v.    The Feasibility Study on page 8 lists a number of extension routes, how much does each cost to build and operate? 

vi.  How much would it cost to purchase and operate rubber tire trolleys along these extensions?

 

In typical Cincinnati government style, answering the questions will outlive the political careers of the questioners!!!!!

Seems to me that this is a stalling tactic.

 

He understands that it is not meant to be a commuting tool (see his question about fares) and then asks whether people will use it to commute, and whether people will park at Findlay Market.

Furthermore it should not be necessary to present a feasibility study for future planned extensions.  The developers of The Banks only have detailed working plans for their Phase 1...why should we require them to spend all that money on a feasibility study that will be outdated once it is finally time to do those phases.  He is trying to stall for sure...but in the meantime he should try actually reading the current feasibility study and many of his questions would be answered.

Hey, first time post here.  It's obvious this is a stall tactic.  Is there an alternative way to get the streetcar proposal on the Finance Committee's agenda?  Or is the committee chair the only one that can put it on the agenda?

To be honest, it really would be beneficial to know the answers to most of these questions.  It's too bad that Cranley is just using these questions to stall or even squelch the proposal, which is obvious from the first question he asks: What projects will need to be cut to fund the streetcar project?

 

Cranley is a schmuck.  He's always been a schmuck, and from the looks of the way he is acting now, he's going to continue to be a schmuck.  His "support" of the streetcar has been disingenuous.  What's his position?  Does he think the city needs commuting rail more than this?  He can't honestly be for giving SORTA more money for buses, (which he seems to be suggesting in Section IV of the questions) since he's been the biggest critic of the Metro since Tom Luken.

 

Since this is Cranley's last term as a city councilor and his ambition seems to be undiminished despite the voters repeated rejection of him for other, more prominent offices, his personal interest in this question is curious.  I suspect he is using this moment to burnish his "budget hawk" credentials with the intention of appealing to the voters of the 31st District of the Ohio House of Representatives (currently occupied by Steve Driehaus) which encompasses western Cincinnati, Addyston, Cheviot, Cleves and North Bend.  Otherwise he's just being an ass, which is also possible.

Classic LK, but I agree that answers to these questions would be good, though I got bored about 1/2 way through.

I don't have a problem with a thorough questioning of any spending of government money, in fact that would be great.  Notice however, that this level of thoroughness is never applied to other projects that Mr Cranley endorses.

It is unreasonable to request this level of detail for some of this...You don't get loans from banks like this, city departments don't require this...nothing.

 

When you're doing phased projects you supply the data/information for the phase in which you are seeking approval.  Additional phases of the Cincinnati Streetcar are irrelevant at this point, because the funding being discussed is only for Phase 1a.  If this level of "thoroughness" was required for every development that came through the doors - nothing would ever happen and the City would be labled as not being "business friendly."

vi.  Please provide all minutes from all meetings of the stakeholder group and the project management team.  Who called such meetings?  Who was notified of such meetings? How was notice made?  Please provide copies of all notices.

 

Did this guy sleep thru 2007?

If you haven't already...go onto the discussion board and comment about the Cincinnati Streetcar.  Be sure to throw in a couple John Cranley is a fool type statements too while you're at it.

 

http://frontier.cincinnati.com/blogs/gov/2008/01/cranley-lots-of-streetcar-questions.asp

Where would you rather be in ten years?

 

Living in Boone County, paying $6.00 per gallon for gas, at the midpoint of the six-year Brent Spence Bridge replacement, facing the prospect of paying, say, $3.00 to cross it each way, every day, to get to your job in Downtown or Uptown.

 

... or living, say, across from a new park at 13th and Race, a few blocks from a continuously improving food market, walking or using the streetcar to get to and from work, with no car payments, insurance payments or bills for fuel?

 

Sometimes we lose sight of how good the future really looks for those willing to break free of the highway economy.

Where would you rather be in ten years?

 

Living in Boone County, paying $6.00 per gallon for gas, at the midpoint of the six-year Brent Spence Bridge replacement, facing the prospect of paying, say, $3.00 to cross it each way, every day, to get to your job in Downtown or Uptown.

 

... or living, say, across from a new park at 13th and Race, a few blocks from a continuously improving food market, walking or using the streetcar to get to and from work, with no car payments, insurance payments or bills for fuel?

 

Sometimes we lose sight of how good the future really looks for those willing to break free of the highway economy.

 

It doesn't even need to be ten years from now, I would rather live there now

John's always there to put things in perspective!  It's a quality of life issue.  Cranley - either help us improve our quality of life or get out of the way!

There are two models of development in downtown right now. One is the give developers exclusive rights and cash, see what happens. This is the model that has produced the Banks and the Fifth and Race Towers. Then there is the second model: make a public investment and allow development to follow. This was the model that has revitalized the fountain square district and led to new restaurants, bars, and investments in the city.

 

I ask you, what shall we do with the remaining TIF money, build a streetcar and have investment rally along the line, or give the money and exclusive rights to individual developers and hope they don't hold us hostage for millions of additional dollars?

 

I prefer the former.

Really if someone trying to get this project done can't answer these questions then they aren't worth a da*n.  There are going to be all sorts of questions regarding this streetcar so essentially these types of questions are going to have to be answered.  Some of the questions are stupid but others will help in crafting a good argument that will support structure for this initiative.

^I don't think anyone is questioning the inherent value of the questions themselves.  It would be great if we asked these types of questions about new city projects and periodically reviewed whether or not they met the expectations.  The problem is that no one can remember any other instance in which any proposal sent to the finance committee was met with this type of request.  Cranley has been on council since before 2001, and he's chaired the finance committee since he screwed the pooch as chair of the Law and Safety Committee and used his tough as nails leadership to allow a riot to begin in council chambers.  When the city wanted to hire 100 police officers after Phil Bates' murder, do you think His Plaidness asked any questions like "What projects will need to be cut to fund these 100 new police officers?"  I think we have a right to expect some consistency in the process.

 

There are two models of development in downtown right now.  One is the give developers exclusive rights and cash, see what happens.  This is the model that has produced the Banks and the Fifth and Race Towers.  Then there is the second model: make a public investment and allow development to follow.  This was the model that has revitalized the fountain square district and led to new restaurants, bars, and investments in the city. 

 

I ask you, what shall we do with the remaining TIF money, build a streetcar and have investment rally along the line, or give the money and exclusive rights to individual developers and hope they don't hold us hostage for millions of additional dollars?

 

This is a great description of the current development climate and the choices we actually face.

Really if someone trying to get this project done can't answer these questions then they aren't worth a da*n.  There are going to be all sorts of questions regarding this streetcar so essentially these types of questions are going to have to be answered.  Some of the questions are stupid but others will help in crafting a good argument that will support structure for this initiative.

 

It is not the substance of the questions, but rather how they're phrased in a damned if you do/damned if you don't kind of way.  It would have also been nice to hear legit questions a little earlier on in the process.  By waiting this long to do so, Cranley is doing nothing more than employing a stalling technique.

^ I was just about to comment on that very thing.  A good example is this one:

 

"How many lane miles can be repaved with the $30 million in capital dollars that are proposed for the construction of the streetcar?"

 

Repaving roads has nothing to do with the streetcar.  The funds would come from totally different places, but the implication is that by building the streetcar, the city is deferring maintenance on other infrastructure, which isn't true.  So Streetcar proponents can either refuse to answer, which makes them look bad, or they can provide an answer that Streetcar opponents will run with.  I suppose the third option is to write a paragraph pointing out exactly why the question is dishonest and logically flawed, but because this list is enormous and is peppered with such "gotcha questions", it makes a serious response time consuming and difficult.  Thanks, Cranley. 

 

 

 

follow the money on that cranley character. it probably goes back to road construction companies and auto dealers.

John Cranley's questions range from excellent to frivolous. In any case, they all need to be answered, and I'm certain that city administrators want to and are going to answer them quickly.

 

I'm guessing that the effect is to delay action on the project by a few weeks, not months.

 

One result is that the fact-base surrounding the project will improve.

 

Another result may be that John Cranley's popularity with central city residents, such as it is, will not improve. My recollection is that he finished fourth or fifth in the downtown and uptown areas in 2007. There's now a well-embedded belief that he is the principal opponent of the Cincinnati Streetcar. I can't see how this helps him.

John Crapley is a turd,  I wish he would have made this list months ago.  I now lower him 1 step on the ladder beneath Ghiz.  Who keeps electing these bozos?

Sigh, red light cameras and now this.

 

John (Cranley), you should be smarter for where you went to school. But your actions seem to suggest that you can only think for the present. Think for the future, not your own personal gains. Do it for the city you live in, and its future. Do it because you love the city, and you want it do be a great city in the future. Let go of reservations. Just, think for the future.

^ Write a letter.

from the Feb 3. Enquirer

 

Slow streetcar plan, answer questions

 

Editorials

 

The proposal to build a $100 million streetcar line through downtown and Over-the-Rhine is rushing toward approval by Cincinnati City Council.

 

Let's put on the brakes before this project goes off the rails.

 

The two-fold premise behind this project is that a streetcar line, with its permanent in-street tracks, will:

 

Generate economic development by increasing the value of properties along the line.

 

...

Arrgh. . . someone is channeling that doofus Cranley.

From the Feb 3 enquirer

 

To really attract people to Cincinnati, improve services, schools

 

Other voices: J. Wilson Leahr

 

What will really attract people to Cincinnati?

 

If the goal is to make Cincinnati attractive to young professionals, we need to focus on the basics. Young professionals with families are concerned about education. They want a living environment that does not require bodyguards for their children to go down the street to the playground or pool. And, yes, they do want playgrounds and pools in their neighborhoods.

gotta love it!!!!

 

Excellent schools and public services will bring people to Cincinnati. An amusement park ride to the bar district will only add to list of things that make Cincinnati laughable.

  This is ridiculous,  I am a young professional in MILWAUKEE.  And one of the prime reasons I'm looking at moving to Cincinnati is this streetcar.  I can guarantee that I am not the only one.  Cincinnati is set up to be the greatest city in the Midwest.  I couldn't imagine a more perfect setting.  But the only thing holding me back and potentially many others is a lack of rail. 

  I need to live in a place where I can get from point A to point B without a car, because cars are a ridiculous waste of money and I refuse to purchase one.  I'm not even a liberal, or a tree-hugger, so I am most certainly not alone on this one.  Sooner or later (most likely sooner) the federal government is going to be forced to discontinue the subsidizing of gasoline in this country.  When that happens, the costs applied to owning a vehicle will be astronomical, forcing many people to reassess EVERYTHING.  Every city in America, including CINCINNATI, should be preparing for that shift because it's not going to be an easy one.  And if you look at the economy TODAY, we might be closer to that tipping point than most people want to admit.

  As for the school system, there's nothing that can be done.  I've watched them pour billions of dollars into the Milwaukee Public Schools system with NO measurable improvements.  All the money in the world couldn't solve the problems with American schooling.  But you know what CAN make a difference...PARENTAL INVOLVEMENT.  As a young professional I WILL NOT choose where to live based off of current economic and social conditions.  That is shortsighted and ignorant.  I WILL however choose to live in a place with potential and make it a place of progress with my own WILL POWER, using strategies similar to the the Price Hill Will organization (http://www.pricehillwill.org/)  Over-the-Rhine could be that neighborhood for me...but first Cincinnati needs to get on board and build a rail system.

 

I need YOU to believe in Cincinnati, I sure do.

^Yeah, I guess you are right.  The schools don't mean anything.

 

Quote from: jmecklenborg on January 07, 2008, 10:30:22 PM

 

Supporting the city doesn't have anything to do with supporting the public schools.

 

 

Well seriously.  The schools have decent teachers, and decent resources.  The thing they don't have is accountability.  Teaches are constantly distracted by poor behavior and threats of violence.  Children can't learn in that environment.  BUT THAT DOES NOT MEAN THAT WE SHOULD PULL THEM OUT!  Rather we need to stand up to these things.  When my child is in a public school, I WILL be involved in his or her education.  Not just through parent teacher associations, but also in communication with other parents.  Also, kids need to learn to stand up for themselves.  Hiring more cops to patrol the school wont do anything except waste more money on cops.

    And I'm not naïve to the fact that most parents aren't willing to live up to these standards.  But we can sure make it difficult to for them not to.  The idea of going door to door has escaped so many American's minds, but that needs to change.  There's something special about making contact with your neighbors FACE-TO-FACE.  That's how you build community.