February 6, 200817 yr Again, if the trolley is in such demand, a few people with baby strollers, or in wheelchairs will not deter the majority from tooling around town on the trial buses!
February 6, 200817 yr Folks, knock it off with the personal attacks and get back on topic. clevelandskyscrapers.com Cleveland Skyscrapers on Instagram
February 6, 200817 yr ^^ The 'bus' trolleys don't have any of the benefits of a real trolley. The 'bus' trolleys are usually worse than a regular bus in terms in getting on and off. The streetcar is important for Cincy's urban core not the region (at the moment). It strikes me that a similar response on the part of city folks would be. . . so why exactly did Butler Cty need the Michael Fox Highway or the exit at Union Centre or closer in . . . I-275 at all, since we who live in the city can get around just fine without them thank you and I'd rather not pay for any of it.
February 6, 200817 yr By the time the trolley is a reality in Cincinnati, the rest of the world will be riding Jetson style hover craft! Again, cincinnati will be behind the times. The trolley tracks will become another subway! Yeah, that sounds plausible. Everything done in Cincinnati, whether good or bad, affects the rest of the tri state area. We all contribute in one way or another, and we will have our say. Cincinnati residents don't tell West Chester that their "Village at the Streets" development idea is ridiculous. Covington didn't get in Newport's way when they built NOTL. Why then, should residents of Anderson Township (for example) give a damn about something that isn't in any way going to impact their daily lives? If what you say is true, than prove it by having specially designated buses ride the proposed trolley route on the proposed schedule. Let's see what demand is. By saying that, you're totally ignoring the main goal of the streetcar. We're building this thing to encourage redevelopment in OTR and make it more attractive for people to live downtown. Obviously, people can walk, drive, or ride a bus right now. But development is spurred by rail, precisely because of the permanence that the tracks give to the routes. A little paint on the street and a temporary bus route isn't going to do that. The Streetcar is a revitalization tool, even more so than a method of traversing the city. Someone wrote into the Enquirer with the same idea recently. I fully expect that if the city were to do this, the outcome wouldn't matter. If current demand isn't there, streetcar opponents would use that as ammunition for why the route is flawed. If the demand is there, the very same people would immediately proclaim that the buses are obviously good enough and that a streetcar is unnecessary. Because of this, I sincerely hope that Cincinnati will ignore the streetcar opponents, and just build the thing. The research has been done, real world scenarios have been studied, and the result has been a glowing report from the experts and an upswell of support from city residents who desperately want rail. On the opposition side, I've seen nothing but ignorance, extreme skepticism, half truths, anti-urbanism, fear mongering in the form of "taxation increase myths", and even a little racism pointed at OTR. I have yet to read a cogent argument that doesn't boil down to "I hate the city", "it won't work", "we don't need it", or "criminals can ride home from Fountain Square to OTR". Never is there any data to back up the claims, just wild generalizations and oversimplifications. Pretty sad stuff. I'm not aiming that at you specifically, DanB. I'd put you in the skeptic category. I'm thinking more of the radio call in shows, comments left on the Enquirer bulletin board, and random stuff I've heard around town.
February 6, 200817 yr I talked with someone at work the other day and they mentioned that their daughter went to the Art Academy. We spoke about OTR and how it is improving. To make a long story short, they blame the new crime wave that is going on in Mt washington because of the displacement of crime in OTR. I almost wonder if that is true. After reading over numerous studies over public housing projects last term, in areas that were gentrified, crime decreased and income levels increased as a result of a new influx of higher-income residents. But what happens to those who are displaced? Who can no longer afford the rent on their property? Or for those whose properties are purchased for new development? Or when their public housing project is demolished? As has been the case in one Atlanta study, those who are displaced are either moving into established, older neighborhoods or older suburban neighborhoods -- although much more dispersed and not concentrated.
February 6, 200817 yr Cincinnati residents don't tell West Chester that their "Village at the Streets" development idea is ridiculous. Covington didn't get in Newport's way when they built NOTL. Why then, should residents of Anderson Township (for example) give a damn about something that isn't in any way going to impact their daily lives? Pretty sad stuff. I'm not aiming that at you specifically, DanB. I'd put you in the skeptic category. I'm thinking more of the radio call in shows, comments left on the Enquirer bulletin board, and random stuff I've heard around town. I don't think you are comparing apples to apples. City residents aren't paying taxes or spending that much of their money in West Chester, as most tri state residents do in Cincinnati, whether by income tax, sales tax, or business and entertainment expenses. Some why these charges will be passed on to others. Whether personally, or through the businesses we support, or those that hire us. How will this affect P&G? Don't think that's unimportant. Those are just facts. That's fine to put me in the skeptic category. I have years of past history with the city making bad decisions. If everyone thinks that its so great and the city is behind it, why do you guys get so worked up about it? Do you really think the callers to WLW are going to change anyone's mind? It makes me think you're really not sure that it will fly. If Cranley is against it, and he convinces the rest of council, isn't that what you want out of your government? Intelligent discussion? Or do you want them to call each other names if they disagree?
February 6, 200817 yr That's fine to put me in the skeptic category. I have years of past history with the city making bad decisions. Cool. Just didn't want you to think I was calling you a racist or fear mongerer, that's all. If everyone thinks that its so great and the city is behind it, why do you guys get so worked up about it? Do you really think the callers to WLW are going to change anyone's mind? It makes me think you're really not sure that it will fly. If Cranley is against it, and he convinces the rest of council, isn't that what you want out of your government? Intelligent discussion? Or do you want them to call each other names if they disagree? I think it's because we're worried that people on the fence will be swayed by this. Sure, we read the Streetcar report when it came out, because we're enthusiasts. But we recognize that the vast majority of people aren't as interested as we are, and rely on sources like The Cincinnati Enquirer and 700WLW for information. When one of these sources puts forth arguments that are sensationalistic and not based on facts, it can get pretty frustrating for those of us who support this project.
February 6, 200817 yr Someone wrote into the Enquirer with the same idea recently. I fully expect that if the city were to do this, the outcome wouldn't matter. If current demand isn't there, streetcar opponents would use that as ammunition for why the route is flawed. If the demand is there, the very same people would immediately proclaim that the buses are obviously good enough and that a streetcar is unnecessary. That's exactly what I was going to say. It's a lose-lose proposition for the streetcar. Even if we rally people to ride a stupid trolley bus, it will give Anti-Streetcar Supporters (or "ASSes" - yes, I just copyrighted that) ammunition against the project.
February 6, 200817 yr I would like to add this bit on Tampa's streetcar/trolley system. Although it loses money and that out-of-towners make up the majority of those that use the 2.0+ mile network, it attracts a lot of investment. I sense that Cincinnati's system may prove to be the same, bearing popularity on game days and during major events, but attracting investment in OTR and in downtown -- which would subsequently raise ridership over time. A Streetcar Named Aspire: Lines Aim to Revive Cities By Thaddeus Herrick, From The Wall Street Journal, June 6, 2006 As a transportation system, this city's $63 million streetcar line is a dud. Since the project opened in 2002, its financial losses have exceeded expectations. Last year ridership declined 10% to its lowest level yet. And the vintage system spans only 2.4 miles between the edge of downtown and a historic district called Ybor City. "It goes from no place to nowhere," says Hillsborough County Commissioner Brian Blair, an opponent of the project. But proponents say Tampa's Teco Line Streetcar System has delivered on another front: helping to spur development. Some $450 million in residential and retail space is complete along the route, most of it in the Channel District, a once-languishing maritime neighborhood. With another $450 million in development underway and $1.1 billion in the planning stages, local officials expect the district to be home to as many as 10,000 residents within the next decade. Like stadiums, convention centers and aquariums, streetcars have emerged as a popular tool in the effort to revitalize downtowns in the U.S. About a dozen cities, from Madison, Wis., to Miami, are planning lines. But while research shows that big-ticket projects such as ballparks largely fail to spawn economic development, evidence is mounting that streetcars are indeed a magnet. Streetcar systems are slower, less expensive and smaller than light rail, with cars that carry a maximum of 125 people and the average line 2-3 miles long. The cars are powered by electricity and run on tracks, which developers tend to favor because they suggest a sense of permanence, unlike bus routes, which can be changed overnight. In Kenosha, Wis., city officials say a two-mile line helped generate 400 new residential units and the redevelopment of a 69-acre industrial site into a waterfront park. The streetcar line in Little Rock, Ark., has sparked revitalization of the city's River Market and warehouse district. In Seattle, a new $52 million streetcar line is scheduled to open in December that will shuttle riders between downtown and South Lake Union, a formerly industrial area that is being redeveloped by Microsoft Corp. billionaire Paul Allen. And in Portland, Ore., the poster child for such development, officials say the streetcar system has helped bring $2.7 billion in investment within two blocks of its 3.6 mile line, much of it in the 24-hour hub known as the Pearl District. "It's one of the most vibrant neighborhoods in the city," says Richard Brandman, deputy planning director for Metro, the Portland area's regional government. Still, streetcars face considerable odds because they vie for the same money as transportation projects designed to serve the suburbs. This has been particularly true at the federal level, where funding has long depended on how quickly projects can move people from one point to another. Streetcars, which average under ten miles per hour, are at a distinct disadvantage. By contrast, light rail moves at 20 to 60 miles per hour. Congress sought to change the odds in 2005 with the creation of Small Starts, a Federal Transit Administration program designed to fund small-scale transportation systems, including streetcars. But streetcar proponents have been largely reluctant to pursue funding under the program, saying the FTA still favors high-speed transit such as buses. Paul Griffo, a spokesman for the FTA, says that both mobility and development factor into the funding of transportation projects. But so far Small Starts has recommended four projects, all of them bus rapid transit, an emerging transportation alternative in which a bus operates in a designated lane much like subway or light rail with stops about every half mile. In the meantime, cities have relied on a patchwork of public and private money to help fund their streetcar systems, hoping to tap into a demographic shift in which young professional and empty nesters are moving downtown. Streetcars are especially popular among urban planners because they encourage the sort of density that allows for offices to be developed alongside homes, shops and restaurants. "Streetcars are not designed to save time," says Mr. Blumenauer. "They're designed to change the way neighborhoods are built." While streetcars lack speed and mobility, proponents say the role they play in urban development makes them a worthy transportation choice. They argue that by helping to draw development to urban areas such as downtowns, and by providing a transportation link in those areas, streetcars reduce the need for extra lanes of highways to the suburbs and limit the need for cars in and around downtowns. In several cities, such as San Francisco and New Orleans, streetcars have never gone out of style as transportation systems. But many more were shut down following World War II in favor of buses. That was the case in Tampa. The city once had one of the largest electric streetcar systems in the Southeast, with well over 100 cars and more than 50 miles of track. In the mid-1980s, prompted in large part by nostalgia, a group calling itself the Tampa and Ybor City Street Railway Society set about to restore one of Tampa's derelict streetcars. Out of that effort evolved a broader downtown redevelopment campaign in which a new streetcar system was proposed, linking the city's convention center and the former cigar-manufacturing hub of Ybor City. [propertyreports] Tampa's Teco Line Streetcar System links the entertainment district of Ybor City to the city's convention center at the edge of downtown. But county officials saw the focus on downtown as trivial compared with the needs of the larger Tampa-St. Petersburg metropolitan area, where the majority of 2.7 million people rely heavily on their cars to get to and from work. County leaders such as Mr. Blair, formerly a Hillsborough Area Regional Transit Authority board member, ridiculed the $600,000 replica streetcars as costly toys. "The concern was the use of public money," says Steven Polzin, a former regional transit authority board member who is a director of public transit research at the University of South Florida's Center for Urban Transportation Research. "Tampa-area roads are wanting for resources." But the controversy did little to deter development in the Channel District, a 212-acre stretch of land where the city has agreed to grant tax breaks for developers. Developers say they were also drawn by the streetcar line. Fida Sirdar, president of Key Developers Group LLC, for example, is spending several hundred thousand dollars to build a pedestrian walkway connecting the York Station streetcar stop to his Place at Channelside, a $100 million 244-unit condominium. "It's a big plus," he says. In May, the Tampa City Council voted to extend the streetcar line by about a third of a mile into downtown, using federal money already in hand. By linking downtown and the burgeoning Channel District, officials hope they can transform the streetcar line into more of a commuter system, expanding the hours of operation and raising revenue. Still, Tampa's streetcar line is still largely a tourist attraction, drawing 389,770 riders last year, more than half of them out-of-town visitors. A $4.75 million endowment set up to operate the streetcar system for 10 years is losing about $1 million a year. And Tampa Mayor Pam Iorio says she doesn't intend to put more money into the line, which the city owns jointly with Tampa's regional transit authority. "Somebody is going to have to step up," says Ed Crawford, a spokesman for the regional transit authority. "It's clear we can't go on this way."
February 6, 200817 yr Author here is a letter to the editor of the pulse, formerly downtowner Streetcars will not bring people Dear editor, I was a member of the coalition that successfully fought off the effort to build a light rail system in Cincinnati. I am opposed to streetcars as well; they were abolished decades ago despite the CBC and local transit leadership being told the move was short-sighted. It is not a good idea to resurrect streetcars because Cincinnati does not have an environment in which streetcars would confer significant benefit. First, let's change the environment. Every pie-in-the-sky scheme of the past 25 years promised billions of dollars in returns on investment to the city, and yet none of it has materialized. Perceptions of Cincinnati by insiders and outsiders differ greatly, and many of us born here consider Cincinnati a major joke. It is particularly so if one has traveled and lived in other parts of the world and has seen what truly creative and enlightened leadership can do and has done in other countries. Downtown, which is the focus of the scheme, is not a desired destination after working hours for most people. There is nothing to recommend downtown to visitors, and most people tend to visit Newport which at least has a central area in which one can find diverse divertissement. The fountain is not a true focal point: nothing significant occurs in the area. For downtown to offer an environment in which people want to be, there has to be a major change in attitude toward people by city council, the CBC and the youth involved with the fountain's management. Indeed, once renovation was complete, attendants lost their jobs and increased parking fees were the legacy of automated facilities. Many were driven to take the bus, which has now increased fares 50 percent despite legendary poor service. If bus service were greatly improved and routes, stops and hub points more rational and convenient, people would use that system and a streetcar, nee rail, system would not be a point of consideration. The fountain square area ought to be closed to traffic and used as an area for vendors and street action, including actors, mimes, and creative behaviors that make a hub interesting. In cities where permanent vendors are allowed, people flock to the area because what is there is interesting. The only interesting thing about fountain square is counting the police cars and bike patrols that are lounging and schmoozing with each other. Where is the excitement, the activity? The so-called entertainment on the square is unhip, totally square, pathetic and ill-advised. Where's Black entertainment? Not tired uncle toms and other assorted hankie-heads, but rocking, bass-regulated music that gets everybody moving. There's a lot of hip-hop and rap that is not objectionable, where is it? Why is the music always 'white rock?' Who uses the square every day? For what purposes? What attracts people to the square? Is ice skating really a draw or an obsolete tradition that continues on its own inertia? Why does the square 'die' every day at 7 or 8p.m.? The students who complete local colleges, for the most part, have no interest in Cincinnati beyond their undergraduate experience. Many graduates, now scattered, recall the Short Vine days with something approaching nostalgia. Nice place to visit, but I wouldn't want to live there accurately describes Cincinnati. Streetcars will not bring people to something that doesn't exist. Change the environment and they will come. William Herbert Smith
February 6, 200817 yr ^ This guy's right. The entertainment on Fountain Square is "unhip, totally square, pathetic and ill-advised". I can't believe we thought we could be edgy and cool without mimes.
February 6, 200817 yr Was this written in 1989, or was that the last time he went downtown? I don't think I agreed even once with any of the issues this a$$hole brought up, yet he makes it sound that everyone thinks like him. I am picturing this guy! Ladies and Gents, I present to you Mr. William Herbert Smith
February 6, 200817 yr That article was a good laugh. I am starting to think he is a disgruntled ex-parking attendant. The fountain square area ought to be closed to traffic and used as an area for vendors and street action, including actors, mimes, and creative behaviors that make a hub interesting Haha mimes!! That's what the square was missing!!! :banger: Who uses the square every day? For what purposes? What attracts people to the square? Is ice skating really a draw or an obsolete tradition that continues on its own inertia? Why does the square 'die' every day at 7 or 8p.m.? ummmm people who eat lunch?? and relax?? Well this is a positive statement! the square used to die a 6 and now it dies at 7-8. If we keep working hard it will be 11-12 ish.
February 6, 200817 yr That's fine to put me in the skeptic category. I have years of past history with the city making bad decisions. If everyone thinks that its so great and the city is behind it, why do you guys get so worked up about it? Well because we are passionate about this city and many have gotten tired of hearing people say that we can't do this, or we can't accomplish that. We also get tired of people using little to no knowledge, on the topic, to back up their stance. There is a reason why so many people in this region are pessimistic about the city. Unfortunately more people do base their opinions off of the simple reporting they get from the Enquirer or the talk radio shows. It is very unfortunate, but very true. If these outlets aren't being responsible with their coverage then I think there is a right for people to get passionately upset with them. If Cranley is against it, and he convinces the rest of council, isn't that what you want out of your government? Intelligent discussion? Or do you want them to call each other names if they disagree? Nope I agree...intelligent discussion would be very nice.
February 6, 200817 yr Author From citybeat's porkopolis blog Denser Is Better for Streetcars One of the more interesting moments during last night’s State of the City address by Cincinnati Mayor Mark Mallory came when he called for building a streetcar system that connects downtown and Over-the-Rhine with the Uptown area near UC. Perhaps surprising even Mallory, the remark got a sustained round of applause. Discussed seriously for about two years, a proposal to build the first 3.9-mile loop in the system will be debated by city council’s Finance Committee on Feb. 25. The issue of CityBeat that hits newsstands Wednesday includes an article examining two factors involving the city’s business community that threaten to derail the plan. Although the debate over the streetcar proposal has kept the local blogosphere busy during the past week, some comments tried to compare the system to light rail lines in Cleveland and elsewhere — which streetcar supporters say is a faulty analogy. While most line rail lines are designed for commuters, streetcars generally act as circulators that help to more efficiently move people already present within a specific area. In fact, the primary benefit of streetcars is to spark redevelopment of vacant or dilapidated parcels near the route, supporters add. The $102 million loop proposed for Cincinnati is a modern system that really only has two comparable counterparts so far in the United States, in Seattle and Tacoma, Wash. Tacoma opened a 1.6-mile system in 2003. In the third quarter of 2007, it carried an average of 3,030 passengers each weekday. It averages 1,894 weekday passengers per route mile. Seattle opened a 1.3-mile system in 2007 that connects downtown with the South Lake Union neighborhood. It carries about 950 passengers per day, or 730 weekday passengers per route mile. City officials are pleased with the initial results and already are talking about expanding the system to serve five more Seattle neighborhoods. A feasibility study commissioned by Cincinnati officials last year estimated the median opening year ridership here would be 4,850 passengers per weekday, or about 2,450 per route mile. Unlike Tacoma and Seattle’s streetcar systems, the Cincinnati project would serve the core of regional employment, areas of high public investment such as The Banks and major sports and cultural attractions, which supporters say will increase ridership here. Additionally, Cincinnati (with 3,880 people per square mile) is considerably denser than Seattle (3,225 persons per square mile) and Tacoma (1,619). That factor would help make Cincinnati’s system a success, according to some urban planners. — Kevin Osborne
February 6, 200817 yr Author from 2/6 city beat News: Streetcar Plan Might Derail Cranley and business leaders seek assurance of project's success BY Kevin Osborne | Posted 02/06/2008 John Schneider: "Modern streetcar systems have been an economic boon in Portland, Ore., and other cities." A behind-the-scenes political war is being waged over a $102 million proposal to build a streetcar system through parts of downtown and Over-the-Rhine, fueled by concerns over cash and ideology. Although the proposal still seems to have the support of a majority on Cincinnati City Council and some allies in the business community, at least two major roadblocks have emerged that threaten to derail the project.
February 6, 200817 yr "I will not obstruct the role of council," Cranley says. "I believe we are duty-bound to ask the tough questions before we spend taxpayer dollars." So he's playing devil's advocate then? Or am I reading that wrong?
February 6, 200817 yr It's people like WIlliam Herbert Smith who keep Cincinnati from being a great city. I don't understand why these people are so against this. He says there is nothing to do in Downtown at night! Haha that's damn near comical. I've every time i go out I head strait downtown; despite the fact that it is a 45 minute drive from my house, and i have to sleep on my buddy's couch. As soon as I graduate and can rub two nickels together, I'm investing in either OTR or Downtown, and plan on using the streetcar quite a bit. These ignorant people ruin everything for everyone, by smearing bad press about these initiatives. None of them have actual evidence, they just say it wont work. Just because he doesn't call downtown, Over-The-Rhine, The West End, or any other urban neighborhood home he doesn't want any investment in these areas.
February 6, 200817 yr Smith is a longtime rail opponent. He opposed LRT as far back as June, 2001. Whatever the plan is, he has a different plan.
February 6, 200817 yr Other ideas also being considered include imposing a special assessment fee on surface parking lots for their "wasted development potential," sources say. I love this idea. Surface lots are the biggest sign of urban decay in my opinion. I am working on creating an existing land-use map for my senior project of this area, and it is embarrassing how many surface lots are surrounding it. The Broadway Commons lot looks like it belongs in front of a walmart. The only good thing about all these surface lots is they offer a ton of design freedom for later development. I'm really surprised that 3CDC is opposing this. I guess i understand they think that they are going to lose a lot of their resources, but i would think they would see this as a positive for their revitalization efforts.
February 6, 200817 yr The Broadway Commons lot looks like it belongs in front of a walmart Don't give them any ideas! :wink: I'm really surprised that 3CDC is opposing this. I guess i understand they think that they are going to lose a lot of their resources, but i would think they would see this as a positive for their revitalization efforts Im not, They have made bad mistakes in the past. Stephen Leeper of 3cdc reccomended the Mercer commons site to CPS to replace the Washington Park School 2 years ago. CPS bought the buildings and we almost lost 22 contributing buildings in OTR. 1329 Walnut 1333 Walnut 1335 Walnut 1339 Walnut 1341 Walnut (2 blgs) 1349-55 Walnut (3blg?) 17 Mercer 19 Mercer 23-25 Mercer 27 Mercer 18, 20, 24 Mercer 26 Mercer 25 E. 14th St. 11 E. 14th (not owned by schools) 1317 Walnut (front and rear blgs) 1313 Walnut They are currently doing alot of good in the Gateway but they are not GOD.
February 6, 200817 yr It appears from Osborne's article above that Cranley supports some type of Streetcar system in Cincy, he just disagrees as to the location. He prefers the uptown loop to be built first. I would hope that he wouldn't go so far as to attempt to block the downtown loop. If that would happen, I doubt he could muster enough support to put any other route up for a vote. I live in Pleasant Ridge and work in OTR, and I LOVE the idea of bringing streetcars back to the city. Hopefully one day, they will reach all the way out to the Ridge, but I'm content with any other route that gets the process started. I will definitely be in City Council's chambers on Feb. 25 to voice my support.
February 6, 200817 yr ^ That is what he says, but his questions and doggedness in preventing this from moving forwards seems to me a CYA position that looks more progressive than it appears.
February 6, 200817 yr Cincinnati has the potential to become huge again, but there are certain individuals in office who are against any form of change. Its the mentality of people like that who are the sole reason for our decline the last 40 years. If we'd actually be more progressive as opposed to reactive, our city would be thriving. with traffic and rising gas prices etc, why dont more people see that public transportation is the way of the future...
February 6, 200817 yr 3CDC wants the streetcar, but they just want it to go up Vine St. so they don't lose out on their massive investment. Problem is, Vine St. up until Central is the busiest street in Downtown. 3CDC would love the streetcar, but only if it runs up Vine.
February 6, 200817 yr Cincinnati has the potential to become huge again, but there are certain individuals in office who are against any form of change. Its the mentality of people like that who are the sole reason for our decline the last 40 years. If we'd actually be more progressive as opposed to reactive, our city would be thriving. with traffic and rising gas prices etc, why dont more people see that public transportation is the way of the future... Amen. Couldn't have said it better.
February 6, 200817 yr Wouldn't you think they could get some video of modern streetcars?: http://www.wlwt.com/news/15227201/detail.html
February 6, 200817 yr Author 3CDC wants the streetcar, but they just want it to go up Vine St. so they don't lose out on their massive investment. Problem is, Vine St. up until Central is the busiest street in Downtown. 3CDC would love the streetcar, but only if it runs up Vine. look at what they actually own, they have about half of all properties on race. I would imagine 3cdc would be the biggest winner from the streetcar
February 6, 200817 yr I think that this shows that the city is in dire need of alternative modes of transportation. Everything in the red are surface lots. I didn't even include the surface lot in washington park or music hall's because I'm hoping they wont stay like that for a whole lot longer. If you add the other land uses in on this map surface lots easily outweigh any other one type of land use. Thats sad.
February 7, 200817 yr Phase 2 - This is it boys and girls. Feel da power!! :-D http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?hl=en&ie=UTF8&msa=0&msid=106516343889698696857.000445755f09d5300b21b&ll=39.126065,-84.520569&spn=0.052069,0.106602&z=13&om=0
February 7, 200817 yr You guys might hate me for suggesting this but I wonder if 100M would be better as a shot in the arm for revitalizing the Brewery District. I'm looking at it from an economic perspective. At the same time though, I realize if this street car is a succeess we'll be more likely to get one uptown and in various other neighborhoods. I'm not sure which one would ultimately spur more economic development.
February 7, 200817 yr Author someone asked me if I was going to the february 25th meeting, I replied that I would walk through hell in a gasoline suit to go to that meeting
February 7, 200817 yr You guys might hate me for suggesting this but I wonder if 100M would be better as a shot in the arm for revitalizing the Brewery District. I'm looking at it from an economic perspective. At the same time though, I realize if this street car is a succeess we'll be more likely to get one uptown and in various other neighborhoods. I'm not sure which one would ultimately spur more economic development. The streetcar will provide the necessary incentives to jumpstart the Brewery District. There are a number of projects pending, and there are developers who are waiting to jump in once the streetcar is moving forward. I can safely say the Brewery District is 100% behind spending the money on the streetcar.
February 7, 200817 yr someone asked me if I was going to the february 25th meeting, I replied that I would walk through hell in a gasoline suit to go to that meeting nice, "pete". We need some unifying sign/color/symbol for everyone to wear so when we pack council chambers it is a massive show of force.
February 7, 200817 yr How about we dress up like this? Probably won't be allowed to bring a stapler into city hall though. I'm gonna wear my OTR pin I bought at Urban Eden awhile back. Probably have my famous OTR bumper stickers to give out also.
February 7, 200817 yr oh im going. we should have a meet before, get drunk, and then show them what we really think... :drunk:
February 7, 200817 yr Author ^ if you don't pass this, then....i'm... i'm going to burn the place down. a nice mixture of marvin and Stokley Carmichael
February 7, 200817 yr Author someone asked me if I was going to the february 25th meeting, I replied that I would walk through hell in a gasoline suit to go to that meeting nice, "pete". We need some unifying sign/color/symbol for everyone to wear so when we pack council chambers it is a massive show of force. Orange ribbon pins that someone, you because you came up with the idea, passes out at the front door
February 7, 200817 yr someone asked me if I was going to the february 25th meeting, I replied that I would walk through hell in a gasoline suit to go to that meeting So you're mildly interested then? ;)
February 7, 200817 yr Author orange??? How about green? most people will be wearing dark suits, orange stands out better and www.cincystreetcar.com is orange
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