There's a catch-all phrase that I think fits people who have a fetish for data, micromanaging, multiple ideas, endless testing and being unable to make a final decision:

 

Paralysis of Analysis

 

I know the building with the address 2001.  That is off rt 50 up the hill when you get off 275.

I was thinking Reed Hartman but we are both probably right.  I think that the connection with the social service is in the method of her argument.  Throw out some numbers and some over reaching rhetoric and hope something sticks.

There's a catch-all phrase that I think fits people who have a fetish for data, micromanaging, multiple ideas, endless testing and being unable to make a final decision:

 

Paralysis of Analysis

This needs to be shouted from the hilltops!  It is not the critic who counts!

^

I like Mr Raser's term from Monday's meeting (same idea, also with alliteration):

 

"Civic Constipation"

Interesting conversation on a downtown street yesterday ...

 

A well-known leader of the Democratic party -- a guy who goes back a long way and who knows everything -- asked me why John Cranley was giving us so much trouble on the streetcar.

 

I said, "I've got my own theories, tell me yours."

 

So he went on, "You know, Cranley is a disciple of Tom Luken. And Tom figured out a long time ago that you can succeed in Cincinnati by always being against whatever the plan is, finding fault with any idea that comes along, good or bad. It got him elected mayor and congressman for many years. And John's just picking up where Tom Luken left off."

 

I didn't really have anything to add.

 

The "Cranley follows Tom Luken" plot line is true as far as I know.  During Cranley's first political race, a run for the 1st district Congressional seat against Steve Chabot in 2000, Tom Luken served as Cranley's mentor, and as far as I heard, Cranley ate all Tom's shit up, which was one of the reasons the Lukens promoted him heavily to be appointed to City Council in 2001 to replace Todd Portune.  And that's how Cranley got on council.

 

Maybe, instead of ripping this guy a new one because he asks  "What's in it for us?"  ----  We should be contacting him due to the fact he is such a vocal member of that area.  Many die-hards in P-Hill have alot of respect and faith in what he says and does.    Some of you guys really know how to write and convince people of the causes that we are all striving for.  Let's enlighten these people and INCLUDE them on the ULTIMATE MASTER PLAN.

 

Obviously this it would be ideal if this situation with Pete Witte was simply one of ignorance or a misunderstanding.  It would be nice if our politicians went out and attempted to enlighten people about new major municipal projects, like the Streetcar, with as much enthusiasm as they devote to their re-election campaigns.  But Mr. Witte, as a former Republican nominee for City Council and as a neighborhood leader of the Westwood Concern or Price Hill Civic Club or whatever he's involved in, surely has the opportunity and the connections to find out what this project is about.  There still may be reason to talk with him, but his disparaging remarks and ridiculous alternative transit suggestion belie a decided mind, not an inquisitive one.

 

Finally, there is more than enough room in a revitalized Over-the-Rhine for everyone who currently lives there as well as plenty of newcomers.  But bear in mind, this is America, and you can't legally force people not to buy a house in your neighborhood.  And that's a good thing.

Finally, there is more than enough room in a revitalized Over-the-Rhine for everyone who currently lives there as well as plenty of newcomers.  But bear in mind, this is America, and you can't legally force people not to buy a house in your neighborhood.  And that's a good thing.

 

There's definitely room in OTR, no question about that.  The problem with retaining the residents currently living there, is what happens when all this development takes off?  Most likely, property values will soar, given the amenities in the area, and gentrification will occur.  Current residents won't be able to afford increased rents, and new lower income residents will be priced out of the area.  This is one of the hardest questions to deal with in historic preservation.  There needs to be a conscious effort to keep the area mixed-income, and that is often difficult to maintain.

There's definitely room in OTR, no question about that.  The problem with retaining the residents currently living there, is what happens when all this development takes off?  Most likely, property values will soar, given the amenities in the area, and gentrification will occur.  Current residents won't be able to afford increased rents, and new lower income residents will be priced out of the area.  This is one of the hardest questions to deal with in historic preservation.  There needs to be a conscious effort to keep the area mixed-income, and that is often difficult to maintain.

I am really glad you brought this up.  Things are taking off already.  Yet there are new units as low as 85,000 and phase II has more that are just as low, perhaps slightly lower.  Many of the units are priced between 100-150,000 and I would not say that is so out of reach for the majority of people when you take into consideration the average home price in Cincinnati is over 200,000. 

 

That being said, keep in mind that most of buildings were empty or are in the process of emptying themselves.  This is not the same gentrification game that has been played in the past, the rules are different now.  Before, gentrification generally happened because of upper ranging housing pushing out lower ones so new pushing out old residents.  Today, it is the lower income people, the original residents, who with a voucher in their hands, are deciding to live in place that is better, safer, and gives them and their children a chance.  The slumlords can no longer fill their buildings in OTR and the West end and in some cases have been forced into bancruptcy as they can not compete with Westwood, Price Hill, etc. 

 

So the gentrification equation has flipped.  Down here it didn't start with the development, that came later, after the mass exodus of those looking for better living conditions.

^ and keeping the area mixed income will be very difficult.  People investing in the "NEW" OTR will want to know that their investment will continue to grow.  They don't want their property values being effected by the drug dealer in the next building.  That is what the residents of Price Hill worry about.  Mr. Witte really doesn't want a transportation system from Price Hill to Mt. Washington.  He just doesn't want Price Hill to become the new OTR.

Here's a good blog having to do with urban issues in the Washington, DC region.  Richard has some interesting and applicable-to-Cincinnati ideas on gentrification (a word he dislikes even though he uses it as a label). 

 

http://urbanplacesandspaces.blogspot.com/search/label/gentrification

or just

http://urbanplacesandspaces.blogspot.com/

 

^ and keeping the area mixed income will be very difficult.  People investing in the "NEW" OTR will want to know that their investment will continue to grow.  They don't want their property values being effected by the drug dealer in the next building. 

I think this is old suburban-type thinking.  I am a property owner in OTR and I support those people who are working to continue to provide affordable housing here.  I am surrounded by two Model managment Sect 8 projects, and do not mind at all, as long as it is managed properly.  I really don't think this negatively affects my property values.  What is negative about more people, more eyes on the street, and more density?  There can be an issue with loud music and or drugs, but that is part of living in the city IMO, and can be dealt with in ways other than pricing these people out of the market.

^ and keeping the area mixed income will be very difficult.  People investing in the "NEW" OTR will want to know that their investment will continue to grow.  They don't want their property values being effected by the drug dealer in the next building.

 

 

Drug dealers, foreclosures, this stuff happens in ALL neighborhoods now.  Hamilton, Butler, Warren, Indy, and NKY.

 

Nobody is going to escape the current trends of decreasing home values.  The demand is gone!

I agree with JSkinner, this isnt a pricing issue, it is an enforcement issue.  Those additional eyes in the windows not only put pressure on the drug dealers, but also on the drug buyers.  Does that mean they go somewhere else?  Yes, and probably to a place that currently is in the situation that OTR has historically been in.  No one is trying to push out the poor, we are trying to push out a criminal element that exist both within the poor and the rich, I do not care which you are.

 

As for the pricing, much of the continuing increase in demand will be offset by the next phase of supply.  Is the demand gone here?  Not last I checked, as a matter of a fact it is stronger here than it ever has been.  Will that continue?  I have reason to believe so.  Throw in a streetcar and it is a done deal.

 

The mixed income I do not believe will be as hard as you think.  OTR and the CBD both are unique from most other neighborhoods in that individual streets are almost neighborhoods in and of themeselves.  This allows for a 365,000 condo at the Duvenek to be across the street from ones in the low 100's and both being only blocks away from countless social services.  I think that we will be able to have a tremendously diverse community, not just in Gateway, but neighborhood wide. 

Yea, I portrayed that wrong.  I didn't mean OTR demand was gone.   Suburban demand is what I had in mind.     OTR has bottomed out and can only go UP in value.   Sorry, I got off on a tangent about this line -  "They don't want their property values being effected by the drug dealer in the next building."

 

Everything cycles.  Home values and demand will be back.  Theres been nothing magical to happen that will change that historically.

Everything cycles.  Home values and demand will be back.  Theres been nothing magical to happen that will change that historically.

As a general statement sure, but things have happened historically that has permanently changed those demand cycles.  Market rate demand took 50 years to return to the inner cities, it wasn't magical, but it was extraordinary.  Could there be a shift from suburban to urban?  If so, with a finite, or shrinking number in at least the short term who are seeking homes, does demand return to the same levels in the suburbs?  So demand in general will return, but where does it return to?

^ I agree with that.  No one can predict the future.  I agree with most of what you say here, and I understand how OTR can remain mixed use. 

to better put the size of the Cincinnati streetcar in perspective, here are some overlays of the system on familiar cities.

 

new york, times square 44th to the american museum of natural history, 77th. 

 

chicago, starting at navy pier, the loop is to the left

 

washington dc (backwards, otherwise it would be in the water)

 

pittsburgh

 

charleston sc, from the battery to highway 17

 

 

A Cincinnati blog with some great recent postings about streetcars and light rail. Read back about two weeks:

 

http://www.citykin.com/

Everything cycles.  Home values and demand will be back.  Theres been nothing magical to happen that will change that historically.

 

The changing demographics of this country are what is key to the chaning trends.  Younger people weren't raised in the environment that urban living equates to pollution, overcrowding, poverty, etc.  Baby boomers are looking for places to retire that are walkable, maintenance free, etc.  The number of atypical households is growing as more and more people are living together without being in relationships, more people are remaining single for longer and so on.

 

These changing demographics are the things changing the population patterns in this nation...and will continue to do so over the coming decades.

what is the proportion of young people living in Portland compared to Cincinnati?  I know its higher, but by how much? 

The changing demographics of this country are what is key to the chaning trends. 

 

See the thread Escape From Suburbia at: http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,15458.0.html

For your daily dose of comedy, here is a letter from today's Enquirer:

 

Going back to streetcars would be senselessly costly

 

 

Motor coaches (buses) began to replace streetcars in the late 1920s, almost 90 years ago, and with good reason ("Mallory working on streetcar doubters," Feb. 25).

 

Their routes are flexible and can be changed at no expense. Streetcars are confined to their rail beds and would also require new railed storage and maintenance facilities.

 

Anything that can be done in Cincinnati with streetcars can be done better with buses, which we already have and with their maintenance and storage facilities already in place. To spend millions on streetcars is the height of asininity, just as are so many of our City Council's decisions.

 

 

Hugh Patterson, Union Township, Clermont County

 

 

It is beyond me why the Enquirer continues to publish lazy, ill informed, and uneducated letters. Perhaps the Enquirer is very much pro-streetcar and is promoting that fact indirectly by publishing a variety of foolish anti-streetcar letters. Secondly, I'm not sure how Mr. Patterson is affected out in Clermont County.

 

I don't think it's necessary to refute this argument for the 100th time just thought it should be posted here...

Motor coaches (buses) began to replace streetcars in the late 1920s, almost 90 years ago, and with good reason ("Mallory working on streetcar doubters," Feb. 25).

 

That made me laugh. I guess the good reason was that the motorcoach companies bought the railway companies with the intention of running them into the ground so that their mode of transportation would prevail. Not exactly a result of public sentiment, or a good reason in my book.

My response to the editor... As usual, doubt it will be published, but we shall see...

 

-----------

Over the last several weeks I have seen several anti Cincinnati Streetcar letters show up on these pages, and I can no longer remain silent about the misconceptions and clear falsehoods contained in those letters.  Recently, a writer commented that "Anything that can be done in Cincinnati with streetcars can be done better with buses."  Nothing could be further from the truth.  Private developers do not invest money as a consequence of bus routes for the very reason that the writer noted -- "Their routes are flexible and can be changed at no expense."  It may be no expense to the city to change a bus route, but the change of route would be of great expense to a developer trying to invest in and build livable, walkable, urban areas.  Bus routes do not spur development, never have, never will.

 

Here in Cincinnati we have the opportunity to develop in ways that have the potential to attract new residents -- an opportunity that not many other cities have.  There is already a great synergy downtown.  New restaurants and arts venues are opening, the new fountain square, the banks project is moving forward, we are looking to build a new tallest building, and the efforts of community development groups in Over the Rhine is starting to show real tangible results with new businesses moving in.  This is real momentum.  The streetcar can encourage and supplement the existing development and build something truly wonderful in our fair city.

 

With a clear vision of what we can accomplish given the vastly undertapped potential of the Central Business District and Over the Rhine, we can move forward.  To coopt an oft quoted phrase, "Yes we can."

^ Great letter, Chris. Hope they print it.

I'll look for it in the editorial pages this week, if it makes it that far!

neat portland graph

 

http://www.portlandstreetcar.org/pdf/daily_ridership_graph.pdf

 

I love how he talks about "our city council" when he lives in Clermont County.  I thing we as urban residents need to weigh in more frequently on every expenditure by every suburban jurisdiction as not being a benefit to us and the region as a whole.

 

For instance, I'm sick and tired of paying for ineffectual "sound walls" for every person who bought a house next to a freeway.  Why should I pay for their ignorance and short sightedness?

Eh, I'll pay for those.  I'd rather not observe the suburban conformity ;)  Those aren't for them, they are for the people on the highway ;)  Sorry, snark off.

For instance, I'm sick and tired of paying for ineffectual "sound walls" for every person who bought a house next to a freeway.  Why should I pay for their ignorance and short sightedness?

 

Yeah.  I don't really know any thing about acoustics, but I don't think those work.  Well, they may lessen the sound for those who live directly next to the highway, but I would think they would just reverberate it.  Wouldn't you need carpet or foam padding on the walls like they have in recording studios to absorb sound?  I've never seen a studio that was just a concrete box.

 

It's also worth noting that those sound walls never appear alongside the highway in neighborhoods like Evanston, which existed long before the interstate tore through them.

Streetcars will only make OTR and downtown safer.

 

 

CINCINNATI -- It's a place that's still used as the city's boogeyman by some: Don't go to Over-the-Rhine, it's not safe.

 

But you might be surprised to hear what's happened to the crime rate in the last two years.

 

Tonight at 5, News 5 looks at Over-the-Rhine's steady return from the ashes and why it might now be one of the safest places in Cincinnati.

^Awesome!

i got a letter from Laketa Cole today in regards to the letters that i sent to council.

 

It says:

" I would like to thank you for your letter regarding the proposed streetcar plan. I appreciate your comments on this matter and I support the development of a streetcar system in our city.

  I have signed onto Council member Qualls motion which she is recommending not only the streetcar to connect Downtown and Over-the-Rhine, but also Uptown. I support the streetcar development while also requesting further research on this project. If Council is going to support this project we must make sure that the streetcars are not only providing transportation within downtown but also connecting our neighborhoods to one another as well as to downtown. "

 

She doesn't really tell you if she wants the downtown line first or not. My understanding was that Qualls wants the Uptown line to be first. Is that correct?

In that quote from Cheryl on the last page she talks about $500,000+ luxury condos in the Gateway Quarter. Such things do no exist. There are four units that are in the 300's (the highest is 369). Other than those, there are some units in the 200's, and most are in the 100's.

 

I would love to see what the streetcar could do to bringing people to this area and showing them what is happening. I would also love to be able to hop and an cruise downtown for dinner...

In that quote from Cheryl on the last page she talks about $500,000+ luxury condos in the Gateway Quarter. Such things do no exist. There are four units that are in the 300's (the highest is 369). Other than those, there are some units in the 200's, and most are in the 100's.

 

I have initiated a scorched earth policy with this lady.  She also said that Gateway is "(no longer OTR you should note)".  When talking about Gateway or anything to do with OTR she never wants to speak in specifics, only generalities that have no grounding in fact.  Now I think Justin Jeffre has stopped me from posting questions to him on the Beacon regarding him answering some of the rhetoric he is putting out.  That is the most bizarre site I have ever seen with some of the most unreasonable, hypocritical people in this city.

Perhaps the Enquirer is very much pro-streetcar and is promoting that fact indirectly by publishing a variety of foolish anti-streetcar letters. Secondly, I'm not sure how Mr. Patterson is affected out in Clermont County.

 

I wouldn't give the Enquirer that much credit.  It is a notoriously bad newspaper, and is pretty much the laughingstock of the newspaper world.  Have they printed any pro-streetcar letters yet?  Isn't the point of letters to the editor to get the views of a VARIETY of citizens in the community?  And, they should just flat out refuse to post letters like this written from people that do not even live in Hamilton County.

It is a notoriously bad newspaper,

Also, I also noticed that the Enquirer decided not to endorse the School levy on the ballot tomorrow, so it wouldn't surprise me at all if they were anti-streetcar anyway.  It's times like these when I really miss the Cincinnati Post...

jacki danicki covers buycincy.com and the streetcar

 

http://www.jackiedanicki.com/index.php/2008/03/03/sean-fisher-and-brad-thomas/

 

^So you work for the "dirty rotten scoundrals?"  Interesting...and I thought I knew you.

jacki doesn't really care for gov't

^Is it that obvious?

ha brad, you look so excited! :)

 

Side note - riding the trains to and from my bar course here in Alexandria and all I can say is damn, can't wait until I can do this on a small scale downtown...

Prospect Hill Neighborhood Association just voted in favor of the Streetcar at our monthly meeting. Council will be recieving a letter  from the  Prez this week.

FYI here's a fairly recent online resume for Ms. Crowell.  Note the address provided -- seems she lived Downtown for a while in the Gibson Lofts:

 

http://daapspace3.daap.uc.edu/student_data/resume/crowelc.pdf

 

 

You mean this lady?  Sorry I couldn't resist. :-D

 

 

 

TOD at its finest

You mean this lady?  Sorry I couldn't resist. :-D

 

 

 

 

Ah, if only we could level all the Italianate architecture and OTR and replace it with ^, it would be a better place.  Only then could we consider it "revitalized."  Then, we wouldn't even need streetcars, we could all drive cars to- and fro.

I saw that Cincinnati was recently named the 10th best walking city in the country.  Think about how much this could improve with the addition of the streetcar system!  I'm not sure how many of the top 9 have rail transit: Cambridge, Mass; NYC; Ann Arbor, Mich; Chicago; D.C; San Fran; Honolulu; Trenton, NJ; Boston.  I know at least 5 do (NYC; Chicago; San Fran; DC; Boston).

 

http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080304/NEWS01/803040351/1056/COL02

With rail transit:

Cambridge, MA

Chicago, IL

Washington D.C.

San Francisco, CA

Boston, MA

New York City, NY

Trenton, NJ

 

Not sure:

Honolulu

Ann Arbor

There's no rail transit in Ann Arbor. A nice restaurant in the old rail depot, though.

 

And an Amtrak station on the Wolverine line, offering thrice daily service to Chicago and Detroit.