So does this mean it goes to uptown first and then when that is done, the otr circulator?

So does this mean it goes to uptown first and then when that is done, the otr circulator?

 

Qualls Motion - Downtown/OTR circulator + uptown connector all have to be financed and planned before any construction can begin

 

Bortz Motion - Downtown/OTR circulator is its own phase.  Uptown Connector is another phase.  Each one can only be built when the requisite planning for each phase has been completed and the city has MOU's from private partners and the appropriate planning is done.  The big difference is that Downtown/OTR circulator is treated independently from the Uptown connector, and the Downtown/OTR circulator would rely on the funding as already presented to council.  (i.e., Uptown connector doesn't have to be fully planned to start work on Downtown/OTR circulator)

 

Similarities - both plans now include planning and building Uptown connector

^ I can live with Bortz's motion.  That's a good compromise, in my opinion.  It doesn't stall the Downtown/OTR loop and I'd like to see an uptown loop built soon, which would necessitate a connector anyway.

 

 

KJP- thanks for the heads up on that thread.  I'd seen the title many times before, but I'm not sure that I've ever read through it.  Looks like a good one though, so I'll have to start. 

Today's the day?

Today is the day.  Both motions are on the agenda, so we will see where this goes!  (I am quite hopeful)

Anyone going to be there?  I would love to know what's happening.  Unfortunately, work comes first.

I will be there, as well as thomasbw I believe.  Also, I am sure John will be there as well.

I'm debating whether I am going to go or not.  I have a class at 1pm that I would have to skip...we'll see.

Here's what I'm hearing about today in City Council Finance.

 

Mayor Mallory is circulating a compromise motion that includes getting the first build to Uptown together with the formation of a Council-based working group to approve each aspect of the plan as it unfolds.

 

Some say it will be introduced today, others in City Council on Wednesday.

 

 

^ I wish I worked downtown so that I could take long lunches and attend all of these meetings.  Even if they'd all fall on convenient days, it seems that I'd burn through all of my vacation attending meetings that are supposed to be "the big one".  Here's hoping this all gets sorted out (for the better) this week.

Presumably noone has access to this "compromise motion" so that we can compare it to Bortz's and Qualls' motions?

 

Hmmmmm....

Here's what I'm hearing about today in City Council Finance.

 

Mayor Mallory is circulating a compromise motion that includes getting the first build to Uptown together with the formation of a Council-based working group to approve each aspect of the plan as it unfolds.

 

What does this amount to?

^ Have to see the motion to know.  Really hard to speculate here (presumably, I could add a little bit to Bortz's motion and it would match that desription).  But, it could well be a completely new and totally difefrent motion, taking little or nothing from the two existing motions.

Hearing now that it may not be introduced until Wednesday. Go figure.

So, in light of this new motion, will the Finance Committee still take up the existing competing motions on today's agenda?

I would guess not, but we shall see...  I'll be popping by to see whats on the agenda anyhow.

No vote on streetcars today

THE ENQUIRER

E-mail    |    Print    |    digg us!    |    del.icio.us!    |    Click-2-Listen

 

Cincinnati council members postponed a vote that would have set the city's streetcar plan in action.

 

Council's Finance Committee tabled a motion by Chris Bortz that would definitively state the city's intention to build a streetcar system linking downtown with Over-the-Rhine and eventually Uptown, including the University of Cincinnati and the hospitals of Pill Hill.

 

Eight out of the nine council members are on the Finance Committee. Passage in the committee all but guarantees adoption when the full council meets.

 

 

Bortz's motion endorses the plan to fund the system with capital funds, bond issues and contributions from the private sector. It also requires the city to have signed commitments from private participants before construction can begin.

 

The motion is expected before council soon

 

This is getting annoying.

Define "soon."

^ As soon as Tuesday afternoon.

Define "soon."

 

Eight months ago.

I'm beginning to think they like the idea of living in Columbus' shadow and are waiting for them to pass us before moving forward

They don't even know that Columbus exists.

The Cincinnati Streetcar will be back before Council's Finance Committee on Wednesday, April 23rd @ 9:00a. If it passes Finance then, it could before the full Council that afternoon.

 

Sorry gang I can't be there Wednesday. 

I'll be there on Wednesday.

I'll be there as well.  Strange turn of events.

 

Edit - turns out, I can't get out of class during that time because I have practice oral arguments *sigh*  Randy, its up to you to keep everyone posted!

The Cincinnati Streetcar will be back before Council's Finance Committee on Wednesday, April 23rd @ 9:00a. If it passes Finance then, it could before the full Council that afternoon.

 

This makes me feel much better.  If they don't approve it at the 9am meeting then I'll create a scene and lock myself to a fixed object, in the room, until they vote/approve this motion.  :-D

The Cincinnati Streetcar will be back before Council's Finance Committee on Wednesday, April 23rd @ 9:00a. If it passes Finance then, it could before the full Council that afternoon.

 

This makes me feel much better.  If they don't approve it at the 9am meeting then I'll create a scene and lock myself to a fixed object, in the room, until they vote/approve this motion.  :-D

 

the guards have guns now

That's why nonviolent protests are the best way to go.  :wink2:

The Cincinnati Streetcar will be back before Council's Finance Committee on Wednesday, April 23rd @ 9:00a. If it passes Finance then, it could before the full Council that afternoon.

 

I'm thrilled to hear that it hasn't been delayed another two weeks.  I can wait until Wednesday.  I believe I have enough patience left for that.  This is great news.

Streetcars get another chance

BY THE ENQUIRER

 

CINCINNATI -- Cincinnati City Council members will take another swing at passing a streetcar plan Wednesday, first at a special Finance Committee meeting, then in a full council session.

 

Last-minute negotiations over language that would authorize city staff to start work on a the proposed system forced the committee to cancel its plan to vote on the issue Monday.

 

The city plan would use capital funds, bonds and private contributions to link Downtown, Over-the-Rhine and Uptown. Cost is estimated at $182 million.

 

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080422/NEWS01/804220415/1056/COL02

Not sure how well I trust the enquirer, but the way that story is worded seems to imply there will be a whole new financing plan unveiled as well?  (182 million != 102 million in current financing plan)

 

I hope we aren't going the way of Atlanta...

These all time high gasoline prices could not have come at a better time.  I am getting optimistic again, although there still are Cheryls, cranleys, and Wittes out there who just don't get the big picture. Streetcars are a perfect alternative to the Oil chugging  buses and automoblies in our inner core.

We have at least five votes. See you tomorrow.

We have at least five votes. See you tomorrow.

 

Say this thing passes? How soon do you think it would be before construction would start?

 

 

(btw, John ... that was me that said hi to you the other day at Arnold's ... I didn't if you'd remember or not ;) )

^ A year or so.

So what does everyone think the odds are that a Streetcar will be built to OTR (at least more-or-less resembling the current route) sometime in the next few years?

 

Pardon the very basic question - but reading this thread, it seems like some people are somewhat confident this will happen, while others still consider it a bit of a pipedream.

 

It will get to 20th & Elm for sure. How it gets to Uptown from there depends on the outcome of the Alternatives Analysis that will soon commence.

We have at least five votes. See you tomorrow.

 

This is the most exciting statement I've heard in a while.

 

Great job with all you've done, John!

^---- "What does everyone think the odds are that a Streetcar will be built in the next few years?"

 

    Count me as one of the skeptics. I think that if City Council can come up with the money, then it will get built. I have been saying all along that it's all about the money. We can discuss routes and technology all we want, but if there is no funding, it doesn't matter. As I see it, council has to:

1. Sell the Blue Ash airport, or at least a portion of it.

2. Enact a TIFF district

3. Divert funds from other projects

4. Receive a "gift" from some private contributor.

 

  Count on a year for design, and at least another year for construction. Compared to securing the money, the design and construction is the easy part.

 

    By the way, I think streetcars are wonderful. In no way am I opposed to it. It's all about the money.

^ Where do you envision they will need to enact a TIF district?  Current plan calls for tapping the banks TIF.  Private money will need to be found, but it won't be one contributor (it will be dozens and dozens of corporations and private contributors)

1. I thought the airport had already been sold, and it would just be a matter of allocating some portion of that money to the streetcar project.

2. The necessary TIF districts are already in place from my understanding.

3. The only funds that will be "diverted" will be capital projects (i.e. roads).

4. The private contributions are not nearly as difficult to get as it has been made out to be.  The lease back of rolling stock alone would nearly get you to the amount of private contributions needed...and that happens with nearly every transit system out there.

 

In a nutshell, it is the operation costs more so than the upfront capital costs that are an issue of concern for some.

Price of oil: Feb 2006, when streetcar proposed: $59.60

Price of oil: Apr 2008, when streetcar approved: $119.50

 

More than doubled

I caught 10 minutes of Cunningham's show today...they were discussing electric cars with people from Duke Energy and Cunningham stuttered when he got on a roll and said "everything" should be electric, inculuding buses.  But his hiccup was I think his realization that he almost violated official 700 WLW policy in calling for electric rail transit, ie light rail and the modern streetcar. 

 

Made me wonder when an article will appear comparing Dayton's electric bus operational costs versus gasoline buses.  The recent fair increase approved by Queen City Metro was needed largely to cover increased fuel costs...obviously a transit organization like the Dayton RTA, which runs a significant number of routes via overhead wires, would not be under that pressure.   

 

^Dayton still runs trolleybuses? 

yep.  they use the old double power lines. 

I caught 10 minutes of Cunningham's show today...they were discussing electric cars with people from Duke Energy and Cunningham stuttered when he got on a roll and said "everything" should be electric, inculuding buses.  But his hiccup was I think his realization that he almost violated official 700 WLW policy in calling for electric rail transit, ie light rail and the modern streetcar. 

 

Made me wonder when an article will appear comparing Dayton's electric bus operational costs versus gasoline buses.  The recent fair increase approved by Queen City Metro was needed largely to cover increased fuel costs...obviously a transit organization like the Dayton RTA, which runs a significant number of routes via overhead wires, would not be under that pressure.    

 

 

 

I caught that too!    They are a bunch of clowns on there......  I don't know why I listen to em sometimes.

I just received an email from John Schneider, which probably most of you also got. Thought I'd post it here:

 

"Dear Streetcar Supporter,

 

There are now five signatures on the Mayor's motion to build a streetcar line from the Riverfront to Uptown.

 

It's been a long road to get to this point.

 

I hope you can attend the special City Council Finance Committee on Wednesday at 9:00a in Council Chambers. If your time is short, try to come for the start of the meeting and slip away when you need to. Bring a friend or two if you can.

 

If the Mayor's motion is approved tomorrow morning, the full Council will vote to approve the plan at its regular meeting at 2:00p tomorrow afternoon.

 

Construction could begin within a year. And the line could be open by, say, Friday, April 23, 2011 -- sixty years to the day when the last streetcar moved on a Cincinnati street.

 

Call me if you want more info. Hope to see you there.

 

John Schneider

(number omitted)"

 

I know this is to be a compromise, but I'm a little concerned about the "Downtown to Uptown" language. John, can you tell us a little more about the compromise motion the the mayor is offering up? Will it guarantee that the Downtown/OTR leg gets built first?

yep.  they use the old double power lines. 

 

getting off topic, but that's what they still run in Salzburg.