October 31, 200816 yr I used to simply say Metro, but I switched to The Metro because just Metro didn't sound right.
October 31, 200816 yr The HDR/HLB report is predicated on dozens of interdependent assumptions which are just that and I would say are open to interpretation if they are realistic or not. It assumes a reduction in 128,000,000 VMT over 30 years and an average transit trip length of 3.8 miles and a very high percentage transit trips diverted from existing auto and bus trips. Half of all planning and engineering reports make assumptions. The reason why engineers are engineers and not technicians are because they can make judgments that are often assumptions. In the case of the streetcar, I thought the bias constant was sufficiently high for streetcars in the modal choice model. I remember a lot of the other assumptions being rather conservative as well. That was sort of the selling point of the study is that they erred on the conservative side. I would not expect rider totals to be below what the study predicted.
October 31, 200816 yr According to the sound byte I heard, it was Chris Monzel on the radio, referring to the trolley. All I can tell you is what the article quotes him as, which is: ""These folks are going to have their utility rates increased. They're going to have their street lights, now being maintained by Duke, that the city is going to have to pay for and then all this money is going to go into a streetcar system that's only going to help two neighborhoods,"
November 3, 200816 yr In the flurry of robo calls in anticipation of tomorrow's election, I got one from Charlie Winburn regarding the PR amendment to the city's charter. Since I'm not picking up the phone the past week (due to 3/4 of the calls being election related) my voice mail cut off the first part of his message, but he mentioned the streetcar. "something something billion dollar downtown streetcar trolley choo choo train". By the language I'm guessing it's not very positive, but I was curious if anyone else caught the whole thing?
November 4, 200816 yr Winburn is anti-streetcar, he wants buses to run the route. “Our numbers are actually vetted by experts,” said Bortz. “He’s got a document that he and his buddies put together by pulling crap off the Internet.” http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2008/09/01/story7.html
November 4, 200816 yr Winburn is anti-streetcar, he wants buses to run the route. I knew that he is anti-streetcar in a major way, I was just curious how he was fitting in the streetcar with proportional representation.
November 4, 200816 yr Just heard the city has put an RFP on the street for a vendor to Design, Build, Operate and Maintain the Cincinnati Streetcar. Proposals are due on December 18th.
November 5, 200816 yr Since the RFQ has been issued by the City should we assume that the the short fall in the public funding has been pick up by someone in the private sector (besides Duke Energy) or is the City thinking that prospective vendors will need to finance the project? Is the RFP posted on line?
November 6, 200816 yr That's great. Is THIS the news that was supposed to drop on 10/27? Or was it really that Duke Energy thing?
November 8, 200816 yr Has anyone read the RFP to see if the City has financing or what they propose to do next? Surprised there has been nothing in the press etc. especially given the budget crunch facing the City and the County in the near term.
November 8, 200816 yr rfp: http://www.demandstar.com/supplier/bids/agency_inc/bid_list.asp?f=search&LP=BB&mi=10253
November 8, 200816 yr Wow, an RFP, that's huge news. In government you generally don't issue an RFP until you have things funded or poised to be funded by construction. Surely December will be an incredibly interesting time.
November 8, 200816 yr It's actually an RFQ versus an RFP, so it's not quite as far advanced. I went ahead and downloaded a copy, here are the highlights: -- C. Scope of Work The City of Cincinnati is requesting responses to this RFQ from potentially qualified firms to seek a Consultant with the ability to meet the conditions and services necessary to create the City’s Streetcar System (the “Response”). The scope of any Response must include evidence of qualification and experience to successfully accomplish the following minimum tasks: 1. Design and Construction i. Evaluate and advise on work completed to date, including but not limited to the conceptual alignment for the Downtown/Over the Rhine circulator; the Uptown connector in the first phase of implementation; and the conceptual financing plan. Recommend changes and/or refinements to the current plan. Coordinate and consult with the City and other consultant teams on alignments for the Uptown connector. Recommend alignments for the Phase 2 Uptown circulators including but not limited to the two circulator loops identified in the City’s 2007 Streetcar Feasibility Study as the Calhoun/McMillan circulator and the Jefferson/Vine circulator. Recommendations for additional alignment or route alternatives for Phase 2 can be suggested and will be evaluated by the City. Design, engineer and construct the track, stops, electrification and control systems, and modifications to roadways and other infrastructure, including utility relocations. ii. Coordinate and consult with the City and other consultant teams to develop and refine stop locations for the downtown and Uptown circulator, and design and construct the stops and other related infrastructure improvements. iii. Design, engineer and construct a vehicle and track maintenance facility within 0.5 miles of the revenue generating track. Design and construct the facility, or adapt and re-use an existing building or facility within a reasonable distance to the revenue generating track alignment. iv. Identify and procure cars/vehicles. v. Create and execute a project management plan for the timely delivery of the project. Provide all project management services required to execute the plan. 2. Operations and Maintenance Plan i. Create and execute a management and operational plan for Phase 1, including a projected staffing plan for system management, streetcar operations (drivers and maintenance), and infrastructure maintenance (including but not limited to track, electrical, and control systems) ii. Establish and implement a detailed schedule of operations. iii. Establish and implement financial projections for complete Streetcar System Operations, including but not limited to management, operations and maintenance. iv. Establish and implement marketing and advertising/sponsorship policies and plans for revenue generation. v. Establish and implement a fare structure, a fare collection system, and an enforcement plan for collections. vi. Establish and implement a reporting system outlining contractor/agency expenditures, contractor/agency performance, budget revisions, if any; and receipts from the fare box, advertising, and promotions. vii. Establish and implement a Security Plan for the Streetcar System. 3. Financing Plan i. Develop and execute a financing plan to construct the Phase 1 and Phase 2 of the Streetcar System. D. Timetable The following timetable is provided as a guideline for various benchmarks. The City reserves the right to adjust any dates to seek maximum participation at the discretion of City. November 3, 2008...................................RFQ Notice Mailed and placed on City Website November 11, 2008..............................................RFQ Notice Advertised in City Bulletin November 17, 2008........................................................................Written Questions Due November 24, 2008...............................................................Written Questions Answered December 18, 2008....................................................................Written Response Due January 5-9, 2009...................................................................Consultant Presentations
November 14, 200816 yr Cincinnati city manager, other locals plan streetcar expedition On Oregon visit they will gather info, develop contacts http://cincinnati.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2008/11/17/story7.html Cincinnati City Manager Milton Dohoney is trying to put meat on the bones of Cincinnati’s streetcar system plan with a fact-finding trip to Oregon and a bidding competition aimed at finding firms to design, build and operate the system. Dohoney will leave Nov. 14 on a trip to Portland, where he hopes to gain insight and development contacts who can help him build a $219 million streetcar system in Cincinnati.
November 15, 200816 yr I always get a chuckle on peoples comments on wcpo.com I dont know which is more dumb ---- the fact they want streetcars, or the people going to Portland to see what they have in streetcars. City is facing a hugh deficit and they are spending money of this useless item. Remember Nati citizens, you get what you vote for!!!! Clowns! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- rambo59 - 12:37 AM Who want`s to ride a streetcar in the natty.So we can be moving target`s in the every day gun battle`s in the hood. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Grandpa1 - 11/14/2008 Street Cars or The Banks Project. Which will we see done if either? Cincinnati Leadership could mess up a vacant lot. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- giveitup - 11/14/2008 Let me get this right. The city is facing a $14 million deficit and these guys are running all over the country to spend millions more on street cars. DUMP THE PROJECT -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Brat - 11/14/2008 cincinnati moves as a snail's pace on this stuff. very bad follow through yet buses are over crowded, leaving people at stops and traffic isn't getting any better. oh and there's that lovely smog cloud that hangs over the city. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- GO DOG GO - 11/14/2008 Leaders? What a laugh. They are going to see what someone else has done to see if it can be copied? What Visionaries! Wonder who the people in Portland copied?
November 16, 200816 yr ^Does the terrible grammar and spelling of people on comment boards get to anyone else? I guess the two extra seconds to proof read your 10-word response is just too much time to take out of your day.
November 16, 200816 yr Well, considering most of the people that comment on those boards don't even bother to use rational thought, I'm willing to bet spelling and grammar is way under their stream of consciousness.
November 16, 200816 yr I'd be willing to bet most of those people commenting, bitching and whining about all the "wasted Cincinnati money," don't even live in Hamilton County or even pay Cincinnati taxes. They're probably the folks who come down town a few times a year from Mason/West Chester to see the festival of lights or a Red's game and get frightened by seeing a bum on the streets.
November 17, 200816 yr Cincinnati Streetcar Update http://www.urbancincy.com/2008/11/cincinnati-streetcar-update.html While there hasn't been a whole lot of big news relating to the Cincinnati Streetcar lately there have certainly been things going on. On November 5th the Request for Qualifications (RFQ) to design, build, operate and maintain the Cincinnati Streetcar project was sent out. As of 8:30pm November 16th there have been 21 companies to download the RFQ packet. Now this does not necessarily mean that all will submit bids for this project, but the range of companies goes from local companies like Glaserworks and DNK Architects to national companies like URS and Parsons Transportation Group. These companies have until the end of the workday on December 18th to submit their bids. I also got in touch with City Architect Michael Moore and was informed that City Manager Milton Dohoney should be reporting back on financing in early 2009. This is important because since the Streetcar motion was passed by City Council in late April this has been the number one tast for Milton Dohoney - raising the necessary private contributions. If these contributions aren't raised then the motion that was passed is no longer good and things will go back to square one. So far I have heard positive feedback about this fundraising process, but nothing specific outside the $3.5 million that Duke Energy has pledged to the project. In addition to all this I decided to have a little fun with that streetcar congestion graphic I posted last week. That graphic was from almost 100 years ago, so I thought it might be interesting to give it a 100-year update. I attempted to keep the look/feel as close as possible, and with the help of Brad Thomas we calculated out numbers for the modern version. Ford Taurus dimensions were used for average auto size with an average of 1.2 passengers. Skoda ST10 dimensions were used for average streetcar size with an average of 85 passengers. What was seen is an increase in both the average space taken up by streetcar passengers and auto passengers. Auto space saw a 142% increase which dwarfed the 26% increase for streetcar passengers. Early 20th Century Graphic vs. New 21st Century Graphic
November 17, 200816 yr I can't help but still feel a little pessimistic given the economy and temporary lull in gas prices.
November 17, 200816 yr Randy, Not to pick nits but the streetcar increase is 126%. Also, out of curiosity, how did you derive the number of companies that downloaded the RFQ? I wonder if this number reflects qualified bidders. If it is just from total number of downloads off the website, a plethora of factors might skew the number. I would imagine many are curious just to see the RFQ without being able to satisfy the requirements. Still, good news and thanks for the update.
November 17, 200816 yr ^Yeah...I did the math wrong the first time around and have since adjusted the numbers on the website. They have now been modified here as well. 142% for auto...26% for streetcar.
November 17, 200816 yr Also, out of curiosity, how did you derive the number of companies that downloaded the RFQ? I wonder if this number reflects qualified bidders. If it is just from total number of downloads off the website, a plethora of factors might skew the number. I would imagine many are curious just to see the RFQ without being able to satisfy the requirements. Not all are places that are going to bid. For example some are, as you mentioned, just curious. I found this out by going to the bid information and looking through all of the people/companies that have downloaded/requested the packet. In order to do this you have to have an account or set one up. So there aren't all that many Joe Blows out there doing that. As I said, not all of these will submit bids, but the number is what it is.
November 17, 200816 yr Author 23 downloads, of those I would assume that 16-18 could actually put in a bid. http://www.demandstar.com/supplier/bids/planholder_list.asp?_PU=%2Fsupplier%2Fbids%2Fagency%5Finc%2Fbid%5Flist%2Easp%3F%5FRF%3D1%26f%3Dsearch%26LP%3DBB%26mi%3D10253&BI=180454
November 18, 200816 yr 23 downloads, of those I would assume that 16-18 could actually put in a bid. http://www.demandstar.com/supplier/bids/planholder_list.asp?_PU=%2Fsupplier%2Fbids%2Fagency%5Finc%2Fbid%5Flist%2Easp%3F%5FRF%3D1%26f%3Dsearch%26LP%3DBB%26mi%3D10253&BI=180454 Of those 16-18 I'd say half will only be able to be subconsultants / subcontractors.
November 18, 200816 yr I can't imagine any of the companies that have downloaded the RFQ would pony up significant money given the current economy. I don't believe any of the companies are "bidding" on the project at this point but are just presenting qualifications. I would imagine that local firms would not lead this except possibly First Transit headquartered downtown.
November 19, 200816 yr Anyone notice that the RFQ included a request not only to design, build, and operate the system, but also to present a funding plan? That's the hardest part. I want streetcars as much as the rest of you, but I'm skeptical. A plan without funding is just a dream.
November 19, 200816 yr I believe the funding plan was to investigate grants and possible federal money for the clifton circulator. While I am sure that coming up with such money for Phase 1(A) would be met with praise, I do not think it is a necessity for the bid.
November 19, 200816 yr I think they are looking for someone(s) to figure out how to fill phase 1 funding gap. Which appears to be $60.5 million. I hope they can do that but, this seems to be a huge gap. "A city financing plan calls for $30 million in private donations in the project’s $128 million first phase. So far, the city has lined up $67.5 million, including $6.5 million from one private donor: Duke Energy." It also looks like the efforts to get private donations from the local business community is not going as well has they had hoped. It appears the economic bust my be causing some issues. I guess we will know more in the next few weeks. The City Manager is suppose to report to the council details of the funding campaign. “We have been warmly received,” Dohoney said. “What does that translate to financially? We’ll have to wait and see. When we started this, the economic crisis was not in full swing.” I know I have said this many times, but transit in the US really needs the FEDs to step up and really show the money. Heck, just cancel some local road projects in the City of Cincinnati and you have more than enough money for the streetcars.
November 20, 200816 yr Monzel trashing the streetcar again on another topic. http://www.local12.com/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=62d9b061-0dd3-4324-805c-d9454846e1eb "Let's cut other waste. Let's cut the trolley system that they're trying to build for 100 million dollars. Let's cut all these other programs that are not those basic city services. But what we get is this budget that says, well, that's going to be the first things we're going to cut. That's the wrong way to go about it and is a disservice to our citizens. So, should the garbage collection fee be put in the garbage? Exactly."
November 20, 200816 yr It also looks like the efforts to get private donations from the local business community is not going as well has they had hoped. It appears the economic bust my be causing some issues. I guess we will know more in the next few weeks. The City Manager is suppose to report to the council details of the funding campaign. That's an assumption that I'm not ready to make yet. The things I have heard have been nothing but positive. The only public statement about financing that has been made is one that was necessary to be made public (Duke Energy contribution). The rest of the negotiations should/will remain private information until the City Manager reports back on his progress. If he were to release that information now it could damage future negotiations on this matter. For example, if the City needs $60M and hypothetically they have raised $50M of that sum then if they were to go into a negotiation with another company there is just about no way they would contribute more than what they see as necessary (in this case $10M). On the other hand, if that information is kept private then a company could potentially contribute more than what's needed and provide some cushion room if need be. Or they could go into the negotiations saying we only need $10M more so why not up the $8M to $10M to close this baby out. In either scenario it would be a bad idea to release that information before you reach a certain point (check point if you will). I don't know what they have raised, or haven't raised. But I wouldn't take the lack of announcements as a sign that this is bad or good. Just be patient and hold you judgment until "early '09" when Dohoney will be reporting back to City Council on the matter.
November 20, 200816 yr ^ So assuming that Dohoney doesn't find the full amount needed, but gets close... is an extension possible? Or would this truly go back to square one, or God forbid, get cancelled?
November 20, 200816 yr Monzel trashing the streetcar again on another topic. http://www.local12.com/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=62d9b061-0dd3-4324-805c-d9454846e1eb "Let's cut other waste. Let's cut the trolley system that they're trying to build for 100 million dollars. Let's cut all these other programs that are not those basic city services. But what we get is this budget that says, well, that's going to be the first things we're going to cut. That's the wrong way to go about it and is a disservice to our citizens. So, should the garbage collection fee be put in the garbage? Exactly." Public transportation options should be essential, basic services for a city in the same way safe roads and sidewalks are considered. That's the way it always should have been but especially in today's age. If you don't have mass transit options, you are falling behind the pack. Throw in the return on a streetcar investment, it's not just a cute toy...
November 21, 200816 yr The best cities in which to invest are those that are considered gateways to international investment, have vital downtowns where people can forgo cars and don't have a glut of condos or office space. http://realestate.msn.com/buying/Article_Forbes.aspx?cp-documentid=12808843>1=35000
November 22, 200816 yr ^ So assuming that Dohoney doesn't find the full amount needed, but gets close... is an extension possible? Or would this truly go back to square one, or God forbid, get cancelled? From my understanding there is not a specific deadline. His report back to council should is going to be viewed as a gauge to whether it will be feasible to raise the money or not. If the City is getting there, but not there yet, then the process will continue. If the City isn't in the ballpark then a new resolution will probably have to be drafted with new terms and conditions.
November 23, 200816 yr ^Oh, well that's good news then. I was afraid that there was a specific deadline, which might be problematic since the economy is a tad on the unstable side these days.
November 24, 200816 yr I noted that the streetcar is not explicitly included anywhere in the City managers' proposed 2009-2010 budget nor is it in the 6 year capital improvement program. Given the uncertainty for the financing this would make sense but I would have thought there would be at least some mention of the project.
November 24, 200816 yr Author I noted that the streetcar is not explicitly included anywhere in the City managers' proposed 2009-2010 budget nor is it in the 6 year capital improvement program. Given the uncertainty for the financing this would make sense but I would have thought there would be at least some mention of the project. pgs. 19 & 27, City manager's budget comments
November 24, 200816 yr I posted these in the Uptown Commons thread but might as well post them here as well. Without seeing the hard data I tend to think that Corryville is the wiser investment, but the jury's still out as how to get there. [...] As for the Clifton vs. Vine hill, I drew some maps which all stress the redevelopment of Corryville as the goal. Again, if return on investment is the primary goal (above initial ridership), then there are obviously more derelict properties and empty lots in Corryville awaiting investment than on the Clifton Ave. side of campus. Corryville is significantly underpopulated whereas Clifton is not, and connections between main campus and the medical campus as well as some tourist traffic to the zoo are all benefits. The long route, using Clifton hill heading to Corryville instead of Vine, adding 3,000ft. to the route: Vine Hill with Calhoun/McMillan spur: Uptown loop with streetcars running in a double-track loop but alternating between Clifton Ave. or Corryville on their way to Ludlow. This alignment has the huge advantage of full vehicle frequency as opposed to two spurs, although the top of the loop wouldn't generate much activity:
November 24, 200816 yr Gotta go with the full loop. At least eventually. It would be a crime to deny access to the Ludlow Ave business district. Nice maps, by the way. Thanks for taking the time to come up with these.
November 24, 200816 yr Central Parkway through Broadway Commons to Gilbert to Taft/Calhoun to Clifton to to Ludlow. Drive it -- it's as fast as any other route, and you connect many more dots on the map. I could definitely see a two-way loop around the UC superblock.
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