I can only imagine who the responders were and how the questions in that survey were posed!!  Its from an obviously biased site promoting more walking and biking.  They probably stopped people on bike trails to ask their questions!

^

1) Why would their even be a problem with that? 

 

2) Wouldn't you want to poll people in the actual transportation mode that they are using?  All of them: Cars, Bikes, Walkers, Rail (If we had it)?

 

3) Let me guess here, but you can probably sit on your front porch and not even see a single jogger, walker, or biker for every 1000 cars that pass?

No, the problem is if you only ask people who walk or bike, than easily 25 out of 100 would want more bike and walking paths.  The rest of us probably want to get to work or drive to bowling!!

DanB doesn't have a front porch. He has a four-car garage on the front of his house, which is at the end of a long driveway in a subsidivision of cul-de-sacs behind a gate to keep out anyone with an open mind.

 

As for Ram23, he is clearly in the minority as a voice of reason in America. ;) In reality, I encourage you to understand the price tags of buying right of way, constructing graded trails, building bridges, providing wayside signage and enhancement of historical sites, as well as the maintenance of all this stuff. The costs are substantial, ranging from $5 million to $15 million per mile.

 

That's just for trails. Let's consider the sorry state of sidewalks in America, many places which have none or have crumbling relics that would be an embarassment in Mogadishu. Can we at least give some decent places for our children to ride bicycles, walk or play hopscotch? Or have safe routes to schools without having to resort to costly busing borne wholly by taxpayers? Or offer pedestrian promenades along our waterfronts that make it easier to get from point A to point B, provide a pleasant place to have lunch on a warm afternoon, go for a jog year round, or take a romantic stroll any evening. Such settings aren't cheap, but create a sense of place as much as a transportation route. The backlog list of these projects is huge and unfunded. Maintaining them won't be inexpensive either.

 

These projects are not idiocy. They're about making cities nice places to be, which most aren't unless you're just driving through. I sure hope that having cities that are pleasant only to motorists is not your definition of intelligence.

No, the problem is if you only ask people who walk or bike, than easily 25 out of 100 would want more bike and walking paths.  The rest of us probably want to get to work or drive to bowling!!

 

Haha, So your the type thats drives to the gym?

DanB doesn't have a front porch. He has a four-car garage on the front of his house, which is at the end of a long driveway in a subsidivision of cul-de-sacs behind a gate to keep out anyone with an open mind.

 

As for Ram23, he is clearly in the minority as a voice of reason in America. In reality, I encourage you to understand the price tags of buying right of way, constructing graded trails, building bridges, providing wayside signage and enhancement of historical sites, as well as their maintenance. The costs are substantial, ranging from $5 million to $15 million per mile.

 

That's just for trails. Let's consider the sorry state of sidewalks in America, many places which have none or have crumbling relics that would be an embarassment in Mogadishu. Can we at least give some decent places for our children to ride bicycles, walk or play hopscotch? Or have safe routes to schools without having to resort to costly busing borne wholly by taxpayers? Or offer pedestrian promenades along our waterfronts that make it easier to get from point A to point B, provide a pleasant place to have lunch on a warm afternoon, go for a jog year round, or take a romantic stroll any evening. Such settings aren't cheap, but create a sense of place as much as a transportation route. The backlog list of these projects is huge and unfunded. Maintaining them won't be inexpensive either.

 

These projects are not idiocy. They're about making cities nice places to be, which most aren't unless you're just driving through. I sure hope that having cities that are pleasant only to motorists is not your definition of intelligence.

 

Without the emoticons winking or smiling I would mistakenly think you were just being insulting!

Lets keep the conversation to discussion about Cincinnati's streetcar proposal or light rail news please.

DanB, I really try to avoid insulting people with closed minds. But it's so hard sometimes.

 

But UncleRando is right and I apologize. Let's take this matter outside.... over to "Rethinking transport in the USA" or "ODOT Policy Discussion."

 

I love my emoticons

I decided to leave a sarcastic comment on COAST's blog post about the petition:

http://coast-usa.blogspot.com/2009/01/coast-endorses-trolley-petition-drive.html

 

Good idea or bad?

Thank you for your message.  One of the requirements for funding in the stimulus package is that the project be ready to go within 60-90 days.  A portion of the streetcar project does fit that description and is on the list that the City submitted.  The City’s federal lobbyist will be working hard on this.

 

 

 

Ron Wahl

 

Assistant to Councilmember Roxanne Qualls

 

 

 

From: Keith Lanser [mailto:[email protected]]

Sent: Friday, January 16, 2009 4:53 PM

To: Crowley, David; Cole, Laketa; Berding, Jeff; Bortz, Chris; Harris, Greg; Ghiz, Leslie; Monzel, Chris; Qualls, Roxanne; Thomas, Cecil

Subject: Infrastructre spending

 

 

 

Hello, my name is Keith Lanser and I currently live in Delhi Township.

 

As you may know, a great deal of the next stimulus package, estimated to be more than 800 billion dollars, will be spent on infrastructure. I ask you to do everything you can, and lobby for money to create a modern street car system in the urban core. I ask you to consider taking other forms of transit including light rail seriously. These investments will not only make it easier to commute, but it will certainly spur billions of dollars of investment.

 

Our region depends on you. That is why I also ask of you all to help lobby for the Ohio Hub. This excellent rail system would connect me and our entire region with the other major regions in our wonderful State within minutes.

 

It is time for effective leadership. Please help us compete with the rest of the world.

When is the streetcar construction starting?

It isn't going to start just yet. But there is a huge diagram and powerpoint about it. http://www.cincystreetcar.com/

^Not soon enough. 

 

Great letter by the way, Keith.  I hope you sent something like that to everyone on the council.

I did, the exact same thing. I think Harris replied to me also.

Thank you for your message.  One of the requirements for funding in the stimulus package is that the project be ready to go within 60-90 days.  A portion of the streetcar project does fit that description and is on the list that the City submitted.  The City’s federal lobbyist will be working hard on this.

 

That's only partially true. As is proposed in most variations of federal legislation, "Priority shall be given to projects that can award contracts within 90 days of enactment." Furthermore, "Recipients must submit a plan of projects for projects to be awarded contracts within 90 days, one year, and two years."

 

For more information, see the following from the House Transportation & Infrastructure Committee:

http://transportation.house.gov/Media/File/Full%20Committee/20090107/Rebuild%20America%20(updated%2012-12-08%20proposal).pdf

 

While the Appropropriations Committee kept recommended funding levels for highways intact at $30 billion, it reduced the transit amount 25 percent, aviation by 50 percent and passenger rail 80 percent.

 

What can you do? Tell your Congressperson and two senators to support the House T&I's recommended amounts for transportation funding!

 

http://www.votesmart.org/official_congress.php

DanB doesn't have a front porch. He has a four-car garage on the front of his house, which is at the end of a long driveway in a subsidivision of cul-de-sacs behind a gate to keep out anyone with an open mind.

 

As for Ram23, he is clearly in the minority as a voice of reason in America. ;) In reality, I encourage you to understand the price tags of buying right of way, constructing graded trails, building bridges, providing wayside signage and enhancement of historical sites, as well as the maintenance of all this stuff. The costs are substantial, ranging from $5 million to $15 million per mile.

 

That's just for trails. Let's consider the sorry state of sidewalks in America, many places which have none or have crumbling relics that would be an embarassment in Mogadishu. Can we at least give some decent places for our children to ride bicycles, walk or play hopscotch? Or have safe routes to schools without having to resort to costly busing borne wholly by taxpayers? Or offer pedestrian promenades along our waterfronts that make it easier to get from point A to point B, provide a pleasant place to have lunch on a warm afternoon, go for a jog year round, or take a romantic stroll any evening. Such settings aren't cheap, but create a sense of place as much as a transportation route. The backlog list of these projects is huge and unfunded. Maintaining them won't be inexpensive either.

 

These projects are not idiocy. They're about making cities nice places to be, which most aren't unless you're just driving through. I sure hope that having cities that are pleasant only to motorists is not your definition of intelligence.

 

While "pennies to the dollar" was an exaggeration, bike and pedestrian travel costs are lower than rail/highway.  For all of the costs you mentioned, highway/rail require the same at a greater rate, and rightfully accommodate higher and quicker rates of travel.  Bike and pedestrian travel is also usually lumped in with leisure activities, rather than commuting, which adds to the average costs.

 

I walk around 2 miles to and from work (through the New York City winter), so don't get the wrong idea.  I just think tax dollars should be spent primarily on maintaining current highways, and building new rail (such as the topic of this thread, for example!).

I havent read every post in this thread or have been able to find any solid info about the project as of recent so i was wondering...

1. Is the streetcar project approved and ready to start

2. If not, what is holding it back

3. When will construction start/end and what route has been chosen

 

Thanks! my roommate and I have been confused about it

1. The financing structure has been approved and the city manager (Dohoney) is in the process of trying to raise commitments for the private financing component of the project

2. $

3. http://www.cincystreetcar.com/route.html

[*]The streetcar's financing plan has been approved by City Council.  This means that should the details of the financing plan be met then it is all systems go.

[*]It is not all systems go yet because City Manager Dohoney is still in negotiations with private companies who will end up providing much of the financing for the project per the approved plan.  As of right now the City is still pursuing a qualified company to build the project and are moving forward on studying potential Uptown routes for an immediate expansion as originally planned.

[*]Construction could begin before the end of '09, but it all depends on raising the necessary funds.  There have been rumors that this might be a very good candidate for any infrastructure spending money coming out of Obama's current plan.  If that happens then everything could happen sooner and/or bigger.

[*] If that happens then everything could happen sooner and/or bigger.

 

I like that thought process. ;)

I say we hand the feds MetroMoves and see what happens

I say we hand the feds MetroMoves and see what happens

 

I'm not necessarily against that, at least a slightly modified version.  The original was somewhat flawed, but if we can get it funded, I'll take it!

I remain hopeful that the project will move ahead but I also think we need to be careful of getting too far ahead of ourselves.

 

From what I have read the transportation dollars in the the stimulus bill will be distributed along existing formulas for allocation to the state DOT, Transit Agencies and MPO's.  There will not be project specific earmarks.  Total transit funding would be around $10 billion for the entire nation.  While the streetcar project may get some dollars I don't see how it could be under construction in 2009.  I would still be surprised if any private companies are going to give up any big dollar amounts in today's economic climate.

 

Any heard how many responses the City got for the RFQ?

While the streetcar project may get some dollars I don't see how it could be under construction in 2009.  I would still be surprised if any private companies are going to give up any big dollar amounts in today's economic climate.

 

Keep in mind that we have about 70%, at least, of the total money needed.  Any money from the feds would be unexpected and push this thing over the top.

 

Any heard how many responses the City got for the RFQ?

 

Yes.

While the streetcar project may get some dollars I don't see how it could be under construction in 2009. I would still be surprised if any private companies are going to give up any big dollar amounts in today's economic climate.

 

Keep in mind that we have about 70%, at least, of the total money needed. Any money from the feds would be unexpected and push this thing over the top.

 

 

holy smokes. unbelievable. i clikd on here to find out an answer to that question & there it is answered on the very first post i see - lol!

 

I wonder if the city will make public the list of vendors who submit a response to the RFQ?

Four contractor groups submit proposals to City to lead the development of the Cincinnati Streetcar

http://www.protransit.com/Happening-Right-Now/2008/11/city-seeking-private-operator-to-design.asp

 

Four teams have submitted proposals to the City of Cincinnati to design, build, operate and maintain the Cincinnati Streetcar. They are: Bombardier, Cincinnati Streetcar Development Partners, Herzog/HNTB and URS. Each team probably includes several companies that are not named above. Interviews will start during the week of January 25th.

Dang, I had a job offer with HNTB, if they win this contract I may have to call my former manager back up and see if I can get on this

Charlie Winburn gets it wrong

http://www.protransit.com/Happening-Right-Now/2009/01/charlie-winburn-gets-it-wrong.asp

 

Charlie Winburn is an important leader in our community, but he has been misinformed on the benefits of the bus trolleys outlined in a recent story that appeared in the Cincinnati Business Courier. Your can read the Courier article here.

 

In a packet mailed in January to Cincinnati business leaders seeking contributions of $14 million, Mr. Winburn outlines the details of his plan for a rubber-tired trolley to serve Downtown, Over-the-Rhine and Uptown. Unfortunately, many of his assumptions are flawed.

 

First, ridership: Mr. Winburn projects that his trolleys will attract 5,000 riders per day. Yet Northern Kentucky's Southbank Shuttle, a similar rubber-tired trolley operating in the densest parts of downtown Kentucky and Ohio carries an average of 1,273 riders per day. Louisville's trolleys attract about 1,100 passengers per day. Unlike Mr. Winburn's "free" trolleys, both of those operators charge fares to use their systems, but still ...

 

For the past decade, bus ridership has been generally flat in almost all but America's smallest cities, while rail ridership is seeing robust growth. Some new light rail lines have achieved first-year ridership that wasn't expected for ten or fifteen years. Where it's available, consumers see rail as car-competitive. It's just the way it is.

 

Second, cost: Assuming the trolleys run fifteen hours per day, he apparently figures they can be operated for about $40 per hour. Yet the Louisville trolley system operates similar vehicles at a cost of $75 per hour for labor, maintenance and fuel. Each of TANK's Southbank Shuttle buses costs $70 per hour to operate.

 

It costs TANK $6.05 per passenger trip to operate the Southbank Shuttle over its 5.9 mile route. Mr. Winburn claims he can transport passengers on a route connecting Downtown through Uptown, about six miles round-trip by the shortest route, for around $1.42 per passenger trip.

 

Third, environmental impact and sustainability: Mr. Winburn's plan promises "sustainable and green" technology. Regrettably, what he proposes is a fleet of diesel-powered trucks disguised as streetcars. As many know, diesel-powered engines are a main source of micro-particulates, the kind of pollution that gets deep into the lungs and causes all sorts of health problems. Cincinnati is already our nation's ninth-most polluted city in terms of micro-particulate pollution.

 

You know what is really sustainable? Electric rail transit. No American electric rail system that has opened since the end of World War II has ever gone out of business. Fake trolleys come and go whenever some money appears or finally runs out. The best evidence: SORTA purchased the almost-new truck-trolleys pictured in the Courier article for a song when their operator went out of business a few years ago.

 

Finally, economic development: If buses promoted economic development, then we'd see cranes all over Cincinnati because we have lots of buses. Mr. Winburn likes the idea that a bus route can be easily changed or eliminated. But who would ever make a long-term investment in one of our close-in neighborhoods because of a "here today, gone tomorrow" policy of infrastructure development? Serious critics of rail transit no longer dispute that cities which have invested in modern rail systems are seeing tremendous economic development along the lines. Fixed routes with permanent tracks drive investment, create jobs, reduce pollution and assist in not only transporting a workforce but in retaining the young workers who are among our best assets for the future.

 

Unfortunately, Mr. Winburn's trolley can deliver none of those benefits.

 

A streetcar system is a substantial investment, but it will deliver even greater returns - an estimated $14 in new economic development for every dollar invested. It is one of the best hopes for revitalizing many of our neighborhoods. Long-term, the Cincinnati Streetcar will be the foundation for a revitalized city-wide transit network. Just a few decades ago, Cincinnati had 50% more people and thriving neighborhood business districts. That was when we had an efficient, customer-friendly and extensive system of electric streetcars operating throughout the city. We can be that city again.

 

Cincinnati's competitor cities, almost fifty of them across the nation, are considering new electric streetcars. The great cities of the 21st century - and I want my Queen City hometown to be one of those - will have modern, rail-based transit systems. I hope that Mr Winburn will join efforts to move toward that future, but the bottom line is simple: Trains will get us there. Trolleys won't.

I have heard of the other 3, but who are the Cincinnati Streetcar Development Partners?

Great write-up in reference to Charlie Winburns trolley idea.  Beyond this being on a protransit website that only people in favor of the streetcar are aware of...

 

Any effort to get this on cincinnati.com opinion section?

^

It was widely distributed to Cincinnatians and the media yesterday via the PROTRANSIT.COM email list.

Why not submit it directly to the enquirer as well?

Who is the Cincinnati Streetcar Development Partners group...

 

Former Metro leader boards Cincinnati streetcar effort with proposal

http://cincinnati.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2009/02/02/tidbits1.html

 

The former CEO of Cincinnati’s Metro bus system has assembled a team of local contractors to build and operate a proposed new streetcar line.

 

Michael Setzer, who left Metro last March to become regional vice president for Chicago-based Veolia Transportation, is listed as the lead contact person for Cincinnati Streetcar Development Partners.

Thought this was hilarious. If streetcar construction will not provide African-Americans with jobs, exactly how is pothole repair and the addition of extra highway lanes going to do so? Oh, and did you realize that rail transit is not infrastructure...learn something new.......

 

Smitherman: no stimulus for streetcars

Posted by jessicabrown at 1/30/2009 6:21 PM EST on Cincinnati.com

 

Cincinnati NAACP President Christopher Smitherman wrote a letter to President Barack Obama objecting to any federal stimulus money going to the Cincinnati Streetcar. Cincinnati Mayor Mark Mallory has requested around $12 million for the project.

 

 

What a Clown!

People who can't write effectively haven't read very much.   

 

"We need to focus on bread-and-butter projects such as [...] expanding driving lanes on Interstates 71 and 75 to reduce traffic congestion; etc."

 

Surely this is a joke.

My name is Christopher Smitherman and I am the president of the Cincinnati, Ohio NAACP Unit.  The Cincinnati Branch is one of the oldest units in the country; it was founded in 1915.  The Cincinnati NAACP hosted the 99th Annual NAACP Convention of which you were one of the guest speakers.

 

Yes, he gave a lot of speeches during the campaign, but I'm pretty sure he remembers speaking at the NAACP national convention less than a year ago; you don't have to remind him.  It wasn't a meeting at the local rotary club.  Also, the Cincinnati Branch being "one of the oldest" is just extraneous information, having nothing to do with either your argument or the streecar.  What a terrible start to a letter addressed to the President of the United States.  At least have some respect for the man's time and be concise!

Mr. President, it is predicted that the unemployment rates for African Americans in the City of Cincinnati will hit 25-30% in 2009.  The City's African American population is 45%.  Therefore, every 2 out of 3 African Americans in the City of Cincinnati will be unemployed come 2010. 

 

Wait a minute... what?  Did he just write that wrong, or is he seriously arguing that 2 out of 3 African Americans in Cincinnati will be out unemployed in 2010?  If the unemployment rates FOR African Americans is 30%, that's 3 out of 10, not 2 out of 3.  African Americans totalling 45% of the city's population has nothing to do with anything.  In fact, I'm not quite sure he even calculated that 2 out of 3 figure.  Someone please tell me that I'm reading this wrong.

Incorrect mathematics.  25-30% of a population subcategory (African-Americans) of 45% of the total population is not figured .25/.40 or .30/.45 [which would equal 2/3].  It's multiplicative .25 X .45 [~.11] or .30 X .45 [=.15].  So the right answer is 11-15%.

 

Least common denominators are the bomb.

Thought this was hilarious. If streetcar construction will not provide African-Americans with jobs, exactly how is pothole repair and the addition of extra highway lanes going to do so? Oh, and did you realize that rail transit is not infrastructure...learn something new.......

 

Smitherman: no stimulus for streetcars

Posted by jessicabrown at 1/30/2009 6:21 PM EST on Cincinnati.com

 

Cincinnati NAACP President Christopher Smitherman wrote a letter to President Barack Obama objecting to any federal stimulus money going to the Cincinnati Streetcar. Cincinnati Mayor Mark Mallory has requested around $12 million for the project.

WTFrig?!  That's the dumbest thing I've ever read.  Why is he really against it?

 

What's even funnier is thinking what the President would say if he actually read it. Haha, oh boy.

Mr. President, it is predicted that the unemployment rates for African Americans in the City of Cincinnati will hit 25-30% in 2009.  The City's African American population is 45%.  Therefore, every 2 out of 3 African Americans in the City of Cincinnati will be unemployed come 2010.

 

That's some crazy math conjuring going on there using the data he's provided. Mr. Smitherman does not realize that there are plenty of other people out there who support the streetcar project and aren't financially invested in it.

in metro moves didnt the city of cincinnati vote protransit but were overwhelmed by no votes from backward exurbanites? i cant wait to vote yes on this along with everyone else and show Dummie McDumb Winburn and this moron that the people support the idea. It amazes me they still call it trolley too...like were in mister roger's neighborhood or something. Barack is gonna laugh his butt off when he reads this clowns 4th grade quality report. why not write something on "why cincinnati should go back to covered wagons, wife beating and horses"?

This guy(Smitherman) is embarrassing me.

Incorrect mathematics.  25-30% of a population subcategory (African-Americans) of 45% of the total population is not figured .25/.40 or .30/.45 [which would equal 2/3].  It's multiplicative .25 X .45 [~.11] or .30 X .45 [=.15].  So the right answer is 11-15%.

 

Least common denominators are the bomb.

 

Thanks.  Trying to figure out how he arrived at that incorrect figure was hurting my brain.

 

in metro moves didnt the city of cincinnati vote protransit but were overwhelmed by no votes from backward exurbanites? i cant wait to vote yes on this along with everyone else and show Dummie McDumb Winburn and this moron that the people support the idea.

 

I agree that it will pass.  It's obvious that (most) people who actually live in the urban core desire better transit options than we have now.  I just don't want the whole thing to be stalled until November, if the financing happens to materialize in March.  I think someone on here said that progress could continue without a vote, even if a vote were pending, but I can't remember for sure.  I would have been fine with a vote if they had suggested it prior to last november, but it's clearly a stall tactic while they try to figure something else out.  They know it will pass too.

^ Why do you think it will pass?

^ Why do you think it will pass?

 

at the neighborhood summit, the attendees were 2 to 1 in favor of the streetcar.

^ Why do you think it will pass?

 

Because of the way the voting turned out in 2002.  If the city is voting on this and not the county, I think it's got a good shot.  Also, most of the people I know who live in the urban core support the plan, including many people in Newport & Covington (who obviously can't vote for or against it at this point).  All of that aside, I don't think it should be voted on, any more than any infrastructure project should get voted on.  Cincinnati already voted for the Streetcar when it elected a city council that heavily and openly supported the plan that has been developing since 2006.  But if it were to be put to a vote, I think it would pass.

does anyone have a rule of thumb/ballpark on how much it costs to widen a mile of interstate in an urban setting?  I realize there are a lot of variables, but when I was in Detroit, in '03, it was estimated (conservatively) that it would cost around  $1.3 billion to widen 6.7 miles of I-94 near the downtown.

 

http://metrotimes.com/archives/story.asp?id=4455

 

Moreover, it is common knowledge that expanding freeway capacities by adding lanes does not lessen congestion--it only leads to more cars on the freeways.

 

His letter is, to put it mildly, stupid.

 

 

^ Why do you think it will pass?

 

But if it were to be put to a vote, I think it would pass.

 

I think you misunderstood my comment. When I said, "Why do you think it will pass?" -- what I meant was, "Why do you think the NAACP ballot initiative will pass?"

 

I don't think it will for a lot of the reasons you're listing.

 

The intensity is on our side. Wait until gas prices start rising again this spring.