February 13, 200916 yr That's the beacon guy? I imagined him looking a little different than that.. Like this...
February 13, 200916 yr That's the beacon guy? I imagined him looking a little different than that.. Nah, that's pretty much what I would have thought he looked like. How did the debate go, anyways? Any good moments? Was there a clear winner?
February 13, 200916 yr For those of you wondering why the Green Party has opposed the streetcar proposal, it appears that it's because it would use electricity and most of Cincinnati's electricity comes from coal. He wants biodiesel tourist buses instead. Never mind that Phase 1 of the streetcar, or even several future lines, would use relatively little electricity, or that huge users of electricity like Fernald and GM and Cincinnati Milacron have departed and Ford is closing out in Batavia. Anything involving coal-generated electricity is evil according to Haap, end of story. Yeah, that's the thrust of the argument. Haap seemed to have taken more than a few pointers from the departed John Cranley -- repeatedly he told the audience "he wants to understand", or basically whatever Cranley used to always do. Basically it looks like he, the Green Party, the NAACP, etc. are all making bedfellows as a way to raise their legitimacy amongst suburbanites -- the classic anti-city Cincinnati strategy. So it's not about coal with Haap, it's about power. Also, Haap seems to think that the 6 or 7 streetcars purchased for the first phase will clog auto traffic more than the hundreds of buses that currently run in and out of Government Square every day. In fact he was obsessed with the potential of streetcars to cause massive traffic tie-ups. Not sure how he's so familiar with downtown's traffic conditions if he lives and works in the suburbs, but hey, we're only talking about letting one of the country's premier historic districts continue to deteriorate. He also accused John Schneider of being anti-car and anti-suburb. Not sure how someone associated with the Green Party could ever defend the most space and energy-wasting land use pattern in the world, but then again he admitted to never having lived in a city with rail transit. If the format of the debate had been different, audience members might have been able to take him to task, for example asking him which transit systems around the world he has ridden, if any.
February 13, 200916 yr Haap repeated the same few arguments over and over. He claimed that he doesn't trust the city with any "big fixes" like the Streetcar, because they have failed with the Stadiums, Convergy's, etc. He repeatedly proposed that we create a biodiesel-powered trolly bus system with different colored lines painted on the roads for different routes ("red for shopping, blue for entertainment"). He kept repeating the "coal is worse than biodiesel" theme, even after Schneider argued that the city could buy renewable power off the grid to power the system. Anyway, we recorded the debate tonight and will be playing it back on Explore Cincinnati tomorrow. (Jake and I will be adding in our comments as well.) The podcast should be up by Friday night and the video should be coming early next week (lots of editing to do).
February 13, 200916 yr This Haap guy just seems to be a hater in all senses. funny how opponents always seem to look at everything in such simplistic terms
February 13, 200916 yr John Schneider v The Dean, was there ever any doubt? They both look the part, John - intelligent, experienced, confident Haap - moronic, plaid, in over his head
February 13, 200916 yr Here are my thoughts on the debate: Haap>Pros: Created a better debate platform. Points were more in line in how a debate takes place. I thought the Eco, Socio, and Enviro points were a good idea in how we look at this from a whole. Haap>Cons: It was too personal for him. He was on the defense 90% of the time ... not where anyone wants to be in a debate. Lack of experience. Missed a lot of solid points, based on his own argument. Lacked professionalism towards the end, especially during the Q&A. Used Louisville as an example, which was poor since most of the entertainment venues are national chains (this is a failure in my book). Used Memphis as an example, which is a city that makes Cincinnati look like Manhattan. The city is literally cursed by the Almighty God himself. Shneider>Pros: Brought experience to the table, by experiencing both worlds. Was able to refute 99% of the points made by Haap. Carried himself more proffessionally. Remained on the offense. Caim prepared to handle mostly all points made by Haap. Shneider>Cons: The pics were a good idea, but I wouldn't have showed so many and would've concentrated more on the stats. ... and that's pretty much it!
February 13, 200916 yr ^ Thanks for the run down. Wish this got some pub from the media in this burg.
February 13, 200916 yr sorry to bring this back up again, but where can I get one of those bumper stickers?
February 13, 200916 yr ^ I can't sent the PPT by email. It's way too big of a file because it contains lots more slides of streetcars and light rail vehicles that were hidden during the presentation. But if anyone wants to bring a DVD to my office, which is midway between downtown and uptown, I''ll copy it for you. While that's going on, we could happily retreat to the Graeter's factory store a block away. My phone at the office is 513-579-1300.
February 13, 200916 yr ^ I can't sent the PPT by email. It's way too big of a file because it contains lots more slides of streetcars and light rail vehicles that were hidden during the presentation. But if anyone wants to bring a DVD to my office, which is midway between downtown and uptown, I''ll copy it for you. While that's going on, we could happily retreat to the Graeter's factory store a block away. My phone at the office is 513-579-1300. upload using http://rapidshare.com/ please and then post the link here.
February 13, 200916 yr I look forward for a day where I can ride a streetcar from Downtown to Uptown. Keep up the good fight!
February 13, 200916 yr Stimulus Bill Winners: High-speed and inner-city rail: Went from $300 million in House bill to $2.25 billion in Senate to $8 billion in final version. There also is a $6.9 billion provision for public transit. http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/02/13/stimulus.winners.losers/index.html
February 13, 200916 yr Only in Cincinnati could 'progressives' turn into anti-urban/mass transit conservatives. This is crazy.
February 13, 200916 yr Cincinnatus, I think John's photos with the people were fantastic and really sold it as being part of a neighborhood's everyday life as opposed to a tourist novelty. The photos of the cat and of women with babies I think really hit home with people. Also, Haap claimed to have photos of empty streetcars, despite never having been to Portland. Well, it's pretty easy to get shots of empty urban expressways at 3am too, and with Photoshop CS4's "tourist remover" and "crowd fertilizer", it's now easy to create digital images that either deny or exaggerate the amount of people, cars, etc. in a scene, so I don't think these kinds of images will be trustworthy in a year or two. Travis replayed the debate and Q&A with in-studio commentary this morning on UC's radio station. I'm sure he'll post a link when he is finished editing the podcast.
February 13, 200916 yr Amtrak, high-speed and inner-city rail, public transport gain in stimulus bill Authored by Sherman Cahal on February 13, 2009 at UrbanUp Thank you, President Obama, for signing the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act for consideration by the House and Senate. Today, on February 13, the House and Senate are expected to vote on the stimulus bill that will provide a greater amount of funding towards transit networks and high-speed rail. For instance, high-speed and inner-city rail funding went from $300 million in the House bill to $2.25 billion in the Senate, before jumping radically to $8 billion in the final version. There is also a $6.9 billion provision for public transportation. Amtrak also scored, picking up $1.3 billion in the final version, up from the original $500 million in the House and Senate versions. The bill stipulates that no more than 60 percent can go to the Northeast Corridor. See the remainder of the article at UrbanUp.
February 13, 200916 yr Only in Cincinnati could 'progressives' turn into anti-urban/mass transit conservatives. This is crazy. The so called Green Party is an absolute joke here. Eventually the streetcar could be powered by renewable resources such as Wind, biomass, hydro, or carbon credits could be used. Doesn't anybody think about long term? Haap is just a bill cunnigham in a plaid shirt.
February 13, 200916 yr Only in Cincinnati could 'progressives' turn into anti-urban/mass transit conservatives. This is crazy. The so called Green Party is an absolute joke here. Eventually the streetcar could be powered by renewable resources such as Wind, biomass, hydro, or carbon credits could be used. Doesn't anybody think about long term? Haap is just a bill cunnigham in a plaid shirt. As a long time Cunningham listener I take offense to this. Cunningham says most of the things he does as entertainment. Haap actually believes them. As one of the most conservative people on this forum (I'll just go ahead and come out with that) I fully support a streetcar and light rail system. Infastructure is one of the most important things a government needs to help supply. I can name thousands of other things they're wasting money on, but infastructure isn't one. That said, I'm happy about the ^^ big increase for transit funding in the stimulus. I'm unhappy about maybe 60-70% of the other garbage that's in it, but at least some parts actually make sense. I just hope and wish that they don't rush it through a vote today, and hope Obama's promise of waiting a week before signing anything is kept.
February 13, 200916 yr How is this different than Cunnigham? Quoted from the Deans website "Most frequently, those who search the internet become confused when they stumble upon The Dean of Cincinnati (or web pages that refer to The Dean). This character is an example of political performance art, and I publish articles as a hobby".
February 13, 200916 yr Cincinnatus, I think John's photos with the people were fantastic and really sold it as being part of a neighborhood's everyday life as opposed to a tourist novelty. I think the photos were great too and made up a huge part of the argument for John, but I wouldn't have used almost all of my 20 minutes on them.
February 13, 200916 yr The Dean of Cincinnati The dean of Cincinnati He's no Dean. Not in this city! :)
February 13, 200916 yr Very loud story from a group of 7 at Grammer's, about John Schneider getting pulled over for speeding in Portland, and mistakenly handing the policewoman his Delta Amex card, as opposed to license (officer response; sir, we don't give frequent flyer miles here"). Many yuks. The other two passengers are the ones telling the story. Nice irony tho....
February 14, 200916 yr Today's "Explore Cincinnati" (featuring the debate) is now online: http://explorecincinnati.com/2009/02/13/now-available-season-1-episode-5-for-february-13-2009/
February 14, 200916 yr Very loud story from a group of 7 at Grammer's, about John Schneider getting pulled over for speeding in Portland, and mistakenly handing the policewoman his Delta Amex card, as opposed to license (officer response; sir, we don't give frequent flyer miles here"). Many yuks. The other two passengers are the ones telling the story. Nice irony tho.... Guilty as charged. But it didn't happen in Portland, but instead on the way to the Oregon coast with the light rail mafia. The actual statement from the lady was, "I'm sorry, Mr. Schneider, but the Oregon State Patrol does not take American Express." In her wisdom, she decided not to give me a ticket for doing 70 in a 45. Hey, you know ... it's Oregon.
February 14, 200916 yr So, how are the operating costs for light rail being subsidized? Where is the money coming from?
February 14, 200916 yr ^ thanks! @@@@ Now for the second question: So, how are the operating costs for light rail being subsidized? Where is the money coming from?
February 14, 200916 yr Going back once more to Haap's arguments...I listened to the podcast of the debate and noticed how many times he mentioned the streetcars running "up Vine St.". The first phase of the streetcar is not planned to run on Vine St. at all, with the exception of crossing it on Central Parkway & 12th St. The route for an uptown connecter has not been determined and it might never be built, especially if Gilbert Ave. is found to be better suited.
February 15, 200916 yr The Dean of Cincinnati has posted his response to Friday's UC radio podcast. The misspelling of citation ("site") tells you everything you need to know about the Dean's familiarity with academic research and criticism: http://www.cincinnatibeacon.com/index.php/contents/comments/bearcat_radio_bias/
February 15, 200916 yr The Dean of Cincinnati has posted his response to Friday's UC radio podcast. The misspelling of citation ("site") tells you everything you need to know about the Dean's familiarity with academic research and criticism: http://www.cincinnatibeacon.com/index.php/contents/comments/bearcat_radio_bias/ I've been informed, through an UrbanCincy commenter, that the Beacon is modifying or not posting pro-streetcar comments. Classy.
February 15, 200916 yr The Dean of Cincinnati has posted his response to Friday's UC radio podcast. The misspelling of citation ("site") tells you everything you need to know about the Dean's familiarity with academic research and criticism: http://www.cincinnatibeacon.com/index.php/contents/comments/bearcat_radio_bias/ Actually, that just tells you I can make a typo, and that I don't always carefully proofread blog posts, which I usually write in a hurry. If the best you've got on my argument is a typo, that says everything we need to know about your inability to reason. We need solutions that are environmentally, economically, and socially sustainable. Why this forum opposes those concepts is beyond comprehension.
February 15, 200916 yr I've been informed, through an UrbanCincy commenter, that the Beacon is modifying or not posting pro-streetcar comments. Classy. We do not delete substantive comments with which we disagree. In fact, the whole time this person has made these baseless allegations, we have been hosting lengthy comments which disagree with our positions, and we have engaged a healthy debate. I have sent an email to this person, asking for a copy of the allegedly deleted item. If s/he sends something of substance, I will happily showcase it on The Beacon.
February 15, 200916 yr The Dean of Cincinnati has posted his response to Friday's UC radio podcast. The misspelling of citation ("site") tells you everything you need to know about the Dean's familiarity with academic research and criticism: http://www.cincinnatibeacon.com/index.php/contents/comments/bearcat_radio_bias/ Actually, that just tells you I can make a typo, and that I don't always carefully proofread blog posts, which I usually write in a hurry. If the best you've got on my argument is a typo, that says everything we need to know about your inability to reason. We need solutions that are environmentally, economically, and socially sustainable. Why this forum opposes those concepts is beyond comprehension. So would you mind telling us exactly what it is that you believe is environmentally, economically, and socially sustainable? You know, for the people who didn't listen to the show (yes, I listened to it) and are interested in alternatives. And I don't mean just give a few examples. I actually want to hear, in detail, another alternative to the streetcar and why it would be better, cheaper, and more environmental friendly.
February 15, 200916 yr Let me guess Dean? Bus trolley's with painted lines on the street? Great idea. I'm beginning to think that the Cincy Green's were infiltrated by this lot of buffoons for the express purpose of making the entire Green Party look like a bunch of idiots. Job well done fella's.
February 15, 200916 yr Let's keep it on topic folks. Dean, Randy is in Atlanta, and Jake was photographing the event and certainly did not "yell." In fact, the person who yelled was not someone that was identified or someone that posts at UrbanOhio. I removed your last post because it had nothing to do with streetcars or light rail. Dean, why do you feel that streetcars are less environmentally friendly than buses? 1. Streetcars run on an electrical street grid, and at the moment, that is mostly powered by coal. In the future, other renewable sources of energy could power the line. 2. Buses run on diesel, which includes cancer-causing carcinogens and can elevate rates of asthma by merely being in the plume or realm of a bus. Bio-diesel, which Cincinnati uses to a large extent, reduces that but not by much. 3. Streetcars are by standard, fuel efficient. They also carry a greater number of people per vehicle than a bus, and require far fewer maintenance downtimes. Buses need to be replaced after 300,000 miles typically; streetcars can last much longer than that, and have a lower fixed cost per vehicle over the lifetime.
February 15, 200916 yr There's an interesting Q & A in the "Dr. Know" section of the newest Cincinnati Magazine about the streetcars.
February 15, 200916 yr Okay. I'll stay on topic. I encourage your other posters not to criticize The Beacon for deleting off topic comments. 1. I noticed your use of the word "could." How long should we wait? How long should we promote MORE pollution, while waiting? Don't tell me we can buy green energy credits. We can do that anyway. We can do that with biofuel trolleys. We can do that just because we want to give Duke money towards green energy. The reality is that, for the foreseeable future, we have coal electricity in Cincinnati. Do you have concrete knowledge to the contrary? 2. Cincinnati's bio-diesel buses release less pollutants than Duke's coal burning. Why promote more coal burning, if you are so concerned with the environment? 3. Streetcars have more CO2 output per passenger mile than gasoline, when powered by coal burning electricity. Streetcar advocates use slippery numbers when projecting ridership. For example, they say Portland and Cincinnati have the same population densities -- but that is not true in the Portland four mile loop and our comparable downtown loop. The area of Portland that seems analogous to OTR has more than twice as many people living in it. Did those people come due to the streetcar? Maybe. Maybe it was the urban growth boundaries. Maybe the buildings constructed on massive subsidies and abatements. Maybe all three. It is not straightforward to pick the cause you like best, emphasizing only that. I mention this as tangential to the issue of capacity needs for the downtown loop. I'd be interested in your research about costs for replacing biofuel tire trolleys over 30 years compared to a streetcar system. Thanks.
February 15, 200916 yr BTW, someone tell John Schneider he can upload his PPT to Google documents with a free Google account -- and then he can embed the slideshow in any web page, or simply publish it on Google's servers for anyone to see.
February 15, 200916 yr I have an honest and serious question. I've looked at the relevant portions of the Green Party's platform on transportation, and it talks about lessening dependence on automobiles (and encouraging mass transit). Do questions of net pollution output take precedence over that goal? That is, would the Green Party oppose something like, say, light rail or intercity rail unless those options produced fewer CO2 emissions than biodiesel buses? (Also, I would guess that this was the National Green Party platform.)
February 15, 200916 yr Dean, I was actually at the debate. My wife and I live in Prospect Hill. Nothing to get upset about and nothing we stressed out about for more than a few hours, as it threw a wrench in our morning work hours. A couple of weeks ago, we received about 4-6 inches of snow, the streets had about an inch or so of snow mixed with ice. As you know, Metro usually operates fine with a little snow on the ground. Busses ran as usual with no problems at all. A few days later, we received another 3 or 4 inches of snow. This time the roads were clear. My wife usually gets outside and waits for the bus about 15 mins. early, because you don't know if it will be on time, early, or late. It's getting close to 10, I get a call from my wife. She's crying, she's late for work, it's like 5º outside, and she doesn't need to be in the cold due to a personal medical condition. She found out that Metro changed their route. My sister had to leave work to drive her to work. I was pissed because the streets were clearly fine (usually always are as our neighborhood is a major passageway to major hospitals). My aggravation was, Who decides when Metro changes their route? Are they familiar with road conditions? Why is there not a better system in place on how these routes can completely change at the drop of the dime? It also seems that the 24 and 39 are so inconsistent that it's sad. My wife has been late for work so many times and she's getting outside 15 mins. before the bus is supposed to make it's stop. I would assume that public transportation would have a better system. I would assume that its timing would be consistent. I would assume that its routes would be consistent. I would hope that if it needed to change routes at the drop of a dime, that there would be a better system in place. I've never been on a bus when it's broken down on the side of a road, but I actually feel sorry for the folks that had to make an exchange to another bus when I pass one on the side of the road.
February 15, 200916 yr "We could run a bio-fuel trolley" <---from the beacons blog. The Dean needs a little education. Yea, that's a great idea.. Bio-diesel results in increased levels of harmful nitrogen oxide and other pollutants. What does he expect to run the "trolley" in the winter months? I was unable to run my biodiesel powered VW with concentrations of more than B-20 in the winter, and even that was pushing it. (80% diesel 20% biodiesel) Then you end up converting more land to produce soybeans and corn for ethanol which reduces forests, promotes monoculture and less diversity, and grain prices rise, food becomes more expensive in hungry nations, increased pollution from fertilizers. List goes on and on.
February 15, 200916 yr I'll try to get to all these points eventually, but for now -- corn is not the only source for fuel. Why not think about mountain top removal for coal? Changing the route due to ice is better than just shutting down the system. Portland's system is sometimes just shut down in the Winter. I do not speak for the Green party, but I fail to see why improved mass transit with a mind towards lower emissions is a bad idea.
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