COAST Gets It Wrong on Streetcar Funds

http://explorecincinnati.com/2009/04/10/coast-gets-it-wrong-on-streetcar-funds/

 

This week, in a post on their blog, COAST (the Coalition Opposed to Additional Spending and Taxes) made the accusation that absolutely no private funding has been raised for the Cincinnati Streetcar project.  As they put it, “Zero, zip, nada, zilch. A big goose egg.”

 

This claim immediately raised a big red flag.  Local and national media outlets picked up a story last month about a couple getting married and asking guests for donations to the Streetcar in lieu of traditional gifts.  Duke Energy promised $3.5 million to the project last October.  Several organizations, such as Alliance for Regional Transit and Cincinnatians for Progress, are also raising money for the project.

 

So how much money is really in the fund?  A quick e-mail to the City Budget Director cleared up the confusion.  There is currently $2,935 actually deposited in the account.  The contribution from Duke Energy has been promised but not yet transferred to the city.  City Manager Milton Dahoney will be reporting in “early 2009” about what other private funds have been raised for the project.

 

It turns out COAST’s claim was based on outdated information from the end of February.  Perhaps if they would have just asked the Budget Director directly, rather than spending their time finding a photo of a goose egg to accompany their article, this confusion could have been avoided.  COAST was also inaccurate in their claim that it has been a year since the beginning of private fund raising, since the account in question wasn’t created until August 4, 2008.

The Cunningham podcast was shocking.  Lie after lie after lie.  Jason Goyd was repeating The Dean's talking points.  The blind leading the blind.  The guy from Portland was clearly being paid and probably doesn't actually live in Portland since he was able to offer no specifics.   

Listening to podcast now.  This guy from Portland seems crazy.

 

Does anyone find it ironic that COAST is going to be hosting its tea party on Fountain Square... the previous boondoggle?  I imagine they're holding it there because it's a popular destination and a great gathering place.  Has anyone brought this up to them?

Urban Dictionary: teabagging

 

I wonder how many of these COAST wingnuts are actually registered to vote in the city of Cincinnati.

I'd venture to say NONE!!

To follow up on my on-air discussion with Willie on the Big One (aka Bill Cunningham on 700 WLW), I took on his challenge to go down to Over-The-Rhine at midnight. Check out the photographs and audio in today's update at www.queencitydisco.com. I also cleared up some of the crap that C.O.A.S.T. fellow got wrong.

 

I don't know if it will show up on film, but you can see the clock tower of St. Francis Church from 15th and Vine, that would be a good way to show it is 12:00am

 

Thanks for the idea Thomasbw! I kept it in mind and utilized, check out the update to see the photo.

 

 

I was in town this weekend for Easter, and went down to Findlay before heading to the Reds game on Saturday. I grabbed some food and saw a guy getting people to sign a petition "For the Streetcar". I went up and called him on it and I was able to get several people not to sign the petition after telling them he wants to stop the streetcar from being built. By using some clever language he was tricking people to sign it.

 

I was taken by suprise to see this guy at Findlay, because thats a demographic that would seem to be for the streetcar. I wish I would have known earlier that COAST was going to do this and i would have made it a point to get down there a lot earlier.

What?  This could be an even bigger issue if that's how they are getting signatures!    Maybe the media needs to be informed about this!! 

Can you give some details on what they were saying to persuade people to sign it?

Take this to the secretary of state.

He was asking people if they were registered in the city, and then he would say "Would you like to sign a petition for the streetcar?". Most people just sign anything and with that type of wording it sounds like the petetion is pro-streetcar. So overhearing that i went up and told them he wanted to stop the streetcar, and then he would say he just wants it to go to ballot and give people the option to vote on it. he wasn't really happy with me, but i found it to be fun pissing him off.

That isn't right!!

The Beacon's latest alternative to streetcars: People Movers

 

http://www.cincinnatibeacon.com/index.php/contents/comments/parry_people_movers_for_cincinnati/

 

If streetcars don't meet "The Dean's" sacred three pillars of sustainability, I fail to see how the people mover would.  They may be slightly better for the environment with alternative energy sources, but this isn't proven, and neither is the claim that the system would be significantly less expensive to build and operate.

Finally listening to the podcast... wow! The COAST was completely loony. The guy from Portland sounded like he was being paid and fed by COAST/NAACP people.

 

Great job Ronny.

 

We need more concentrated effort to educate the voters/populace on the benefits. That is really what we need to overturn this stupidity!

I just posted on the Beacon comments:

 

So if this is such a great idea, then how is this more "socially sustainable" than the streetcar?  To me, the only difference here is technology and cost.  But how does this meet your "third pillar" requirement?  If nothing else, the model shown above is much smaller than the proposed streetcar.  It seems to me this would be less "socially sustainable" due to the reduced social interaction and could promote exclusion (or am I missing what this means, because I don't think I've ever had a clear explanation).

 

Also, the fact that the tracks can be moved defeats the whole purpose.  This is not a difficult concept to understand, and it's been brought up many times as it is a fundamental argument for the streetcar.  And it is one which is hard to argue against.

I found this detailed map of Seattle's streetcar line.  It shows the new light rail line, the monorail, and the streetcar shop facilities.  Again, this is a very short line, significantly smaller than what is planned in Cincinnati.   

 

Jake, it looks like Seattle's streetcar needs to have controls at the front and rear (i.e., there are no looping turn-arounds.  Is that true?  How does this compare to Cincinnati's design? 

 

The streetcars themselves are bi-directional.  There is an identical cab and set of controls at each end.  In Seattle the drivers switch from one side of the streetcar to the other at each end of the line.  Portland's line operates as a loop so they don't need to switch directions except when backing into the shops or the unlikely event of a disruption on the line.  The plan in Cincinnati would also operate as a loop. 

 

 

 

I'm surprised (well, not really) that there are 212 pages of mostly speculation about the Cincinnati streetcar yet the thing's not even under construction.  No real news anymore, mostly fanboy rhetoric.

 

I *am* with the Dean this time such that the *streetcar* should be using green and clean energy.  We have all sorts of plans and initiatives in this city that should be integrated into many more new projects.  To become a carbon neutral city, we need to do things like this to remain on track, pushing forward harder than we ever have in history.  I think that applying for some subsidy for powering the streetcar with alternative energy would be a good thing.

>No real news anymore, mostly fanboy rhetoric.

 

The Dean is his own fanboy.  Notice this site has been discussing the streetcar proposal for 3-4 years but The Dean showed up to the debate without even cramming the night before, then declared himself the victor, like he always does.  He didn't know what a circuit breaker was, but he was victorious.  Got fired from Purcell -- he wins!  His new place closes and he's laid off -- but he wins!  He'll lose in the primary, but it'll be another triumph! 

To become a carbon neutral city, we need to do things like this to remain on track, pushing forward harder than we ever have in history. I think that applying for some subsidy for powering the streetcar with alternative energy would be a good thing.

 

That is, if you care about becoming "carbon neutral".  Personally, I just want a comprehensive rail transit system.  I honestly don't care if it's powered by coal, oil, wind, etc.  All things being equal, I'd definitely prefer some sort of "green" technology, but it's not my main concern.

I'm surprised (well, not really) that there are 212 pages of mostly speculation about the Cincinnati streetcar yet the thing's not even under construction.

 

If you think three years that three years of talking on a message board should result in construction, then you are not in the real world.  These things are difficult.  Changing our transit options in Cincy will take decades of hard work by all of us.  Don't throw in the towel yet.  You are too young to be so disillusioned, and we need all the help we can get.

Personally, I just want a comprehensive rail transit system.  I honestly don't care if it's powered by coal, oil, wind, etc. 

 

Nuclear powered streetcars!  Now that's a concept I can buy into!!  :wink2:

^80% of France's power is nuclear.  I remember seeing at least one nuclear plant while speeding at 200mph on the TGV, which is obviously powered by nuclear power as are its urban transit lines.  Nuclear power + rail = energy independence, but politics and superstition surrounding nuclear power gets in the way.   

 

 

I can't be the only one who thinks it's completely obtuse to call a streetcar "unsustainable" because it uses electricity that is generated from burning coal.  Anyways, there is no alternative form of mass electricity production that is anywhere near as economically sustainable as burning coal, not even in the same ballpark (at least in our region).  The cost of utilizing individually powered cars is probably going to be much higher than plugging into the grid, and the added carbon dioxide emissions are going to be negligible in a world where developing nations are burning more and more coal every day. 

 

What I'm saying is nothing is going to be perfectly sustainable in terms of meeting the three pillars.  Everything is a balance of the social, economic, and environmental costs.  What you want to do is be creative with the balance, rather than simply compromising.  To me, a streetcar falls into the creative category, and something like People Movers or any of the other non-fixed rail proposals fall under the simple compromise category.

^80% of France's power is nuclear. I remember seeing at least one nuclear plant while speeding at 200mph on the TGV, which is obviously powered by nuclear power as are its urban transit lines. Nuclear power + rail = energy independence, but politics and superstition surrounding nuclear power gets in the way.

 

I don't want to get too far off topic, but what do you do with the waste?  Is there a good answer for that, other than just burying it somewhere?

^80% of France's power is nuclear. I remember seeing at least one nuclear plant while speeding at 200mph on the TGV, which is obviously powered by nuclear power as are its urban transit lines. Nuclear power + rail = energy independence, but politics and superstition surrounding nuclear power gets in the way.

 

I don't want to get too far off topic, but what do you do with the waste? Is there a good answer for that, other than just burying it somewhere?

 

That is the answer. The amount of waste, in terms of pure mass, is not that much. I remember reading that almost all of the nuclear power plants in the US still store their waste in temporary on-site facilities.  The french obviously have better alternatives and they would be the natural source to turn to if the US ever gets serious about nuclear.

The Streetcar will be a net CO2 reduction regardless of power source based on reduced VMT

 

http://cincinnati-oh.gov/cmgr/downloads/cmgr_pdf18280.pdf

I can't be the only one who thinks it's completely obtuse to call a streetcar "unsustainable" because it uses electricity that is generated from burning coal. Anyways, there is no alternative form of mass electricity production that is anywhere near as economically sustainable as burning coal, not even in the same ballpark (at least in our region). The cost of utilizing individually powered cars is probably going to be much higher than plugging into the grid, and the added carbon dioxide emissions are going to be negligible in a world where developing nations are burning more and more coal every day.

 

What I'm saying is nothing is going to be perfectly sustainable in terms of meeting the three pillars. Everything is a balance of the social, economic, and environmental costs. What you want to do is be creative with the balance, rather than simply compromising. To me, a streetcar falls into the creative category, and something like People Movers or any of the other non-fixed rail proposals fall under the simple compromise category.

 

Great point.  I think too often we get caught up in rebutting the "three pillars" rather than addressing the absurdity of the argument in the first place.

 

I'm curious if the Banks meet the requirements of the three pillars.  Let's see:

1)  Economic:  I think we all agree there will be a positive return and increased tax revenue.

2)  Environmental:  Probably not.  It will be adding new, inefficient buildings (all of which use coal power!  They're coal powered buildings!), increased traffic, additional litter from pre-game activities, etc.

3)  Social:  Last I heard, they're ditching the subsidized housing component.  It seems as if this development only caters to the middle and upper-middle classes.  Doesn't sound socially sustainable to me.

 

So, the Dean must hate the Banks as much as he hates the streetcar!

By adding 1.5% to the Cincinnati Streetcar's annual operating budget, the city can purchase all-green power off the grid to power the streetcar.

By adding 1.5% to the Cincinnati Streetcar's annual operating budget, the city can purchase all-green power off the grid to power the streetcar.

 

When you suggest this to The Dean, he gets confused and starts talking about carbon offset credits.

Who coined the moniker "The Dean" for this guy? Seems like the only thing he's Dean of is his own inflated ego.

Not interested in getting in a prolonged discussion on nuclear power.  The issue is that if hydro is tapped out, coal is bad, clean coal is bad, nuclear is bad, and natural gas is bad, that doesn't leave much.  Wind is never going to be a major source of energy in our wind-deprived region and the potential for hydro power on the Ohio River is minimal.

France doesn't have its own source of coal or major hydro power, that's why it turned to nuclear early on.  We have a lot of hydro power and coal, that's why those energy sources would still overshadow nuclear here even if all nuclear power plant construction hadn't ceased in the early 1980's. 

 

All that said, once again, the streetcar line as proposed will use a negligible amount of electricity.  If we were instead embarking on a 100+ mile light rail system and planning electric intercity trains, then this subject would merit more discussion. 

I found this detailed map of Seattle's streetcar line. It shows the new light rail line, the monorail, and the streetcar shop facilities. Again, this is a very short line, significantly smaller than what is planned in Cincinnati.  

 

 

Jake, any way you can superimpose the Seattle Route to scale over Cincinnati?

House streetcar champion pushes “fast start” bill 

RailwayAge.com

 

House Rep. Earl Blumenauer (D-Ore.),  an ardent supporter of streetcars and light rail transit, has drafted the “Fast Starts Program Act of 2009,” designed to recapture “Small Starts” funding that Blumenauer and others say has been largely diverted to Bus Rapid Transit projects instead.

 

Language in the draft bill bluntly declares, “A delay in authorizing grants under the Small Starts program has created a backlog of streetcar projects requiring attention outside of that program.”

 

The bill also takes pains tospecifically identify the given mode, stating “the term ‘streetcar project’ means a new fixed guideway capital project that is electricity and rail based.” As reported in the February issue of Railway Age, in recent years the Federal Transit Administration, encouraged by the Bush Administration, touted Bus Rapid Transit as an alternate, less costly  “fixed guideway” mode that small urban areas could more readily afford.

 

Bluemenauer’s office also isdrafting a revised “Small Starts” bill for the current congressional session, the “Federal Streetcar Revitalization Act of 2009,” which would increase the amount of federal funding support available to potential streetcar projects. The draft legislation emphasizes economic redevelopment potential, land use, and other environmental impacts, including reduction of greenhouse gas emissions—language that may be targeted specifically toward thwarting use of funds by diesel bus options.

 

http://www.railwayage.com//content/view/748/121/

Who coined the moniker "The Dean" for this guy? Seems like the only thing he's Dean of is his own inflated ego.

 

He coined it for himself, which validates the second sentence of your post...

Brad, here you go:

 

At first glance it looks almost the same size as our proposal, but our loop ends alone account for 800ft. of track as opposed to Seattle's end stubs.  Also Seattle only owns three streetcars whereas the feasibility study calls for six for Cincinnati's Banks > McMicken St. route. 

 

 

Anyone know when the federal transit funds are to be announced?  If we don't get enough funds from the feds can we assume that this project will be massively delayed and loose a lot of steam?

I'd really like to know if any of the big companies in town are going to donate to the project.

It would certainly be nice to see P&G, Kroger, and Macy's step up to the plate.

^I believe if it was any other year, they would!  P&G and Kroger probably will eventually, but Macy's may hold out.

No way Macys or any Bank can give $

From Mayor Mallory:

 

Dear Cincinnatians for Progress Supporter,

 

Thank you to those of you who joined us at Grammer’s on March 25th for the Cincinnatians for Progress kick-off event. The enthusiasm in the room was electrifying. I was encouraged to see so many people who believe in the progress in our city and are committed to fighting to keep that progress going.

 

We have seen a lot of progress in Cincinnati over the last few years. However, once again, the naysayers in our community are gearing up to get in the way of progress in our city. They are proposing a ballot initiative that would amend the city charter and threaten the development of the streetcar.

 

As a supporter of Cincinnatians for Progress, you are part of the solution. Together, we will defeat that ballot initiative and we will make it clear that the citizens of our city want to see Cincinnati continue to grow and prosper.

 

We need your help. Send this email to your email list and encourage them to sign up to start receiving email updates from Cincinnatians for Progress by going to our website at http://www.cincinnatiansforprogress.com/. Please also ask them to join the Cincinatians for Progress Facebook Group by clicking here: http://www.facebook.com/home.php#/group.php?gid=74337497384&ref=ts

 

As Cincinnatians for Progress fights that dangerous proposal your involvement will be crucial to ensure that we continue to move our city forward.

 

Thank you for your commitment to the future of our great city.

 

Mark Mallory

Mayor

From Joe "Scoop" Wessels in Citybeat:

 

"Highways are expensive to build, and when we maintain them properly they’re expensive to keep up. Highways also are bad for the environment. The cars that drive on them spew harmful pollutants into the air.

 

Generations behind mine see cars as inconveniences more than a symbol of freedom and independence. Good public transit makes much more sense to them, not just in cleaner air but in less congestion and more concentrated population centers that translate into better shopping, entertainment and nightlife, less crime and fewer auto accidents.

 

That’s the future, not more highway lanes and more traffic"

 

Moderately related: The Reds are trying to land the 2013 All-Star Game.  The streetcar would be a tremendous asset at that point. 

Opponents claim a "coal-powered" Streetcar is more polluting than a biodiesel bus.  We have thrown out the idea of buying energy from renewable sources off the grid.  But here's another possible solution: What if UC generated the extra power required to run the Streetcar at its Corryville natural gas power plant?  That would completely eliminate "environmental sustainability" argument.  UC supports the Streetcar so they might actually go along with it and sell the power to the City at the same cost as Duke, and I'm sure they have the capacity to generate the negligible amount of power required.

^

I passed your suggestion along to the powers-that-be. It's interesting.

Opponents claim a "coal-powered" Streetcar is more polluting than a biodiesel bus. We have thrown out the idea of buying energy from renewable sources off the grid. But here's another possible solution: What if UC generated the extra power required to run the Streetcar at its Corryville natural gas power plant? That would completely eliminate "environmental sustainability" argument. UC supports the Streetcar so they might actually go along with it and sell the power to the City at the same cost as Duke, and I'm sure they have the capacity to generate the negligible amount of power required.

 

Love this idea.  I have no idea if it is feasible or not, but it's definitely something worth checking out.

On a somewhat relevant note, I read that natural gas prices are projected to be down for the next year or so!

 

http://www.cnbc.com/id/23272368

 

Great idea though, Travis!

Any word on how the anti-rail COAST event went this weekend? Haven't seen any coverage...