“I chose this location so that we could be right on the streetcar line.  If you want to start looking at a return on investment, for the streetcar, then you can look at us.  We’re going in here with the streetcar in mind,” says Rose.

 

That's from Rookwood Pottery owner, Christopher Rose, talking about their new OTR location.  Read the full article here: http://www.soapboxmedia.com/devnews/0519rookwood.aspx

I always thought they needed UC buses that would transports students only.

 

The Bearcat Transportation System is around for the sole purpose of transporting students only.

 

It must be newer b/c it wasn't around when I was there.  If it was, it didn't do much transporting.  Either way, it doesn't compare to the benefits of a streetcar going by campus.

Those campus shuttles never get much ridership, it doesn't matter what school you're talking about.  I was back at the alma mater a few months ago and noticed they had those Charlie Winburn trolleys shuttling between the UT campus and downtown Knoxville. I asked a driver when they started running them, and he said they'd had them for over 10 years, which means they were there when I was at school and didn't notice them, let alone ride them. 

BTS gets a good amount of ridership. During high traffic times, I've been turned away because the seats and aisle were full.

BTS gets a good amount of ridership. During high traffic times, I've been turned away because the seats and aisle were full.

 

The BTS routes with high ridership are the neighborhood circulators, which leave campus, circle around a few blocks away from campus, and return.  There are three such routes during the day, but they combine into just 2 routes at night.  There is (or was) one route that takes students downtown and to Newport on the Levee, but I can't imagine it got significant ridership.  Also, the neighborhood routes don't run on weekends, holidays, or during Summer Quarter.

 

Student Government also pays Metro to allow students to buy discounted quarterly passes.  (Originally, all students got FREE Metro passes, but a fee was introduced this quarter.)  Presumably, if the Streetcar was built to the edge of campus, it would be worked into that deal in some way.

Tuesday, May 19, 2009, 11:36am EDT

Cincinnati Councilwoman Ghiz drops support for streetcarsBusiness Courier of Cincinnati

 

Ghiz

View Larger Cincinnati City Councilwoman Leslie Ghiz announced Tuesday that she is revoking her support for an $800,000 streetcar study.

 

Lower than expected tax revenues could produce an $11 million shortfall for the city of Cincinnati in 2009 and a deficit of up to $40 million the next year, city officials told council’s Finance Committee Monday.

 

Ghiz said in a news release that she wants to rechannel the funding to hire two new city prosecutors to combat blight and nuisance issues. She also wants to purchase electronic-monitoring units so inmates turned away by Hamilton County’s overcrowded jail can instead be placed on house arrest.

 

Ghiz said her support for the streetcar “came at a much different economic time.” She now considers public safety to be the city’s top priority.

 

Ghiz was among six members of council who voted to spend $800,000 on an alternatives analysis and environmental studies that would select the best route for a streetcar connection between downtown and the Uptown neighborhoods surrounding the University of Cincinnati.

 

At least someone in city hall is thinking!

I just realized that something I wrote in my post above proves one particular point relating to the Streetcar.

 

The BTS routes with high ridership are the neighborhood circulators, which leave campus, circle around a few blocks away from campus, and return.  There are three such routes during the day, but they combine into just 2 routes at night.  There is (or was) one route that takes students downtown and to Newport on the Levee, but I can't imagine it got significant ridership.  Also, the neighborhood routes don't run on weekends, holidays, or during Summer Quarter.

 

Notice that the routes with the highest ridership are the circulator routes.  So, all of the naysayers claiming that the Streetcar is a "route to nowhere" -- look at the BTS circulator routes.  They rarely go more than a 15-minute walk from campus, yet acheive high ridership.

 

Now imagine a circulator route that runs all year round, 7 days a week; passes through more urban neighborhoods; passes by actual destinations; provides a more comfortable ride (Streetcar vs. bus); is aimed at all Cincinnatians, not just UC students; etc.

Giz living up to her name...

At least someone in city hall is thinking!

 

And she has just lost my vote!

I just realized that something I wrote in my post above proves one particular point relating to the Streetcar.

 

The BTS routes with high ridership are the neighborhood circulators, which leave campus, circle around a few blocks away from campus, and return. There are three such routes during the day, but they combine into just 2 routes at night. There is (or was) one route that takes students downtown and to Newport on the Levee, but I can't imagine it got significant ridership. Also, the neighborhood routes don't run on weekends, holidays, or during Summer Quarter.

 

Notice that the routes with the highest ridership are the circulator routes. So, all of the naysayers claiming that the Streetcar is a "route to nowhere" -- look at the BTS circulator routes. They rarely go more than a 15-minute walk from campus, yet acheive high ridership.

 

Now imagine a circulator route that runs all year round, 7 days a week; passes through more urban neighborhoods; passes by actual destinations; provides a more comfortable ride (Streetcar vs. bus); is aimed at all Cincinnatians, not just UC students; etc.

 

Even more importantly the Streetcar has a legible route.  I went to UC for three years and the only shuttle route I actually knew was the late night main street to campus.  I would see the other ones, but had no idea where they went.

Tuesday, May 19, 2009, 11:36am EDT

Cincinnati Councilwoman Ghiz drops support for streetcars

Business Courier of Cincinnati

 

Cincinnati City Councilwoman Leslie Ghiz announced Tuesday that she is revoking her support for an $800,000 streetcar study.

 

Lower than expected tax revenues could produce an $11 million shortfall for the city of Cincinnati in 2009 and a deficit of up to $40 million the next year, city officials told council’s Finance Committee Monday.

 

Ghiz said in a news release that she wants to rechannel the funding to hire two new city prosecutors to combat blight and nuisance issues. She also wants to purchase electronic-monitoring units so inmates turned away by Hamilton County’s overcrowded jail can instead be placed on house arrest.

 

Ghiz said her support for the streetcar “came at a much different economic time.” She now considers public safety to be the city’s top priority.

 

Ghiz was among six members of council who voted to spend $800,000 on an alternatives analysis and environmental studies that would select the best route for a streetcar connection between downtown and the Uptown neighborhoods surrounding the University of Cincinnati.

 

 

http://twitter.com/#search?q=ghiz

I think it is clear that the GOP will be running in the fall on the fiscal discipline and public safety. I strongly support the streetcar, but that is a hard combo to beat, especially considering the shifting environment. Supporters need to be on the top of their game and get more signs of mass support from neighborhoods far from dt.

^Dmerkow is right in his analysis.  I personally think that everything Ghiz is doing is an attempt to set herself for a run at Pepper's seat on the County Commission.  Of course, they could be prepping Wenstrup for that position as well.  Either way, suspect one of those two to be running for the commissioner's seat in 2010.

This whole things screams of "You didn't support my proposal, so I won't support your proposal."

 

She is also coming across as completely immature because of what I just said and her obvious attempt to align herself with someone vying to be the Mayor from her party. Why can't she be a leader?

My impression is that Ghiz is having a fit over Mallory's efforts against her proposed use of stimulus money to temporarily rent GPS ankle bracelets for Hamilton County.  Instead of standing by a rational decision to support the streetcar she is working against progress out of spite.  It is sad that she has gone to this emotional response when she didn't get her way.

This highlights the need for a true regional transit authority with the funding and muscle to actually get major projects done, free of petty politics at the city and county level. Ideally, such an authority would be like a combination of New York's MTA and the Port Authority of NY & NJ, having jurisdiction over the airports, river crossings, Metro, TANK, streetcars, and light rail. User fees from the airport and tolls from interstate highway bridges could then be used to fund major mass transit projects, including the streetcar and regional rail transit. More importantly, major projects could be planned and executed with the benefit of the entire region in mind, without being held hostage to some council member's petty grudges or a bunch of teabag-waving activists.

I believe the City may be considering using funds from the divestiture of the Water Works to potentially be used for partially funding the streetcar.

I believe the City may be considering using funds from the divestiture of the Water Works to potentially be used for partially funding the streetcar.

 

What has led you to believe that?

Cincinnatians for Progress is having another fundraiser on June 11th. Wish I could make it, but I won't be in town until a couple weeks afterwards.

The Dean of Cincinnati says:

19 May 2009  at  05:58 pm | #

Emailed today:

 

Councilmember Ghiz:

 

I see today you have changed your position on the streetcar due to the City’s economic realities.  I heard this morning on WVXU about the $8 million shortfall for this fiscal year, attributed to a variety of unforeseen circumstances.  The report mentioned things like unpaid furloughs and cutting services to make ends meet.

I would like to remind you how, as of right now, there are three names that have been mentioned in media as mayoral candidates—and one of them is mine.  If there are three or more candidates, the City will be forced to spend $550,000 on a costly, wasteful, undemocratic special primary election.

City Council has the ability to put a charter amendment on the ballot.  I therefore call on you to lead a simple and basic electoral reform that can save substantive dollars.  A single election in November can directly elect the mayor without a costly primary.  If the concept of a “run-off” is important, Instant Run-off Voting is a solution that can achieve those results for less.

Getting rid of the City’s wasteful, expensive, undemocratic and obscure primary election makes good governmental sense as well as fiscal sense.  I hope you will consider raising this issue with your colleagues on council.

 

Respectfully,

[The Dean of Cincinnati]

There is a realistic chance that after this recent action of Ghiz that the Cincinnati City Council will be made up of all Democrats following this upcoming election.  Maybe she is setting herself up for a HamCo Commission run, but in the end I think she cost herself a lot of votes with this move.

I wish you were right, but you need to show that the streetcar has serious support in Westwood, Mt. Lookout, Pleasant Ridge, Bond Hill, Mt. Airy, Hartwell, Madisonville. It doesn't matter how many folks dt or in Mt. Adams or OTR support it. If Ghiz and Wenstrup can frame the choice as safe streets/fiscal discipline or the streetcar. The streetcar loses every single time. If the new estimates of the city's financial condition is remotely true and the city is prevented from monetizing the water system, then I can confidently say we have spent 206 pages discussing a trolley to nowhere.

 

    A plan without funding is just a dream. It's fun to dream, though.  :-)

^Considering the $800,000 in question was already approved I don't get your point.

 

    I enjoy this discussion as much as anyone, but deep down, I have little confidence that the City of Cincinnati has enough political will to come up with the money to fund the streetcar.

 

  I am sorry I do not know about the $800,000 that you speak of.

 

  The feasibility study from a few years ago announced that the Over-the-Rhine loop would cost some $100 million dollars, and the next thing you know we are talking about expansion to the University Area, which will probably take another $100 million.

 

    It doesn't matter what the economic payback is. It doesn't matter if people ride streetcars in Portland. It doesn't matter if the route to the University area uses Vine Street or Gilbert.

 

    What matters is whether or not funding is available to build it. So far, there is no funding, and I find it hard to imagine that changing.

 

    It is my humble opinion that we have, in fact, spent the last 206 pages talking about a trolley to nowhere. I still enjoy Jake's maps and photos, though.

At least someone in city hall is thinking!

You sound like someone that don't live in the city limits.

I am sorry I do not know about the $800,000 that you speak of.

 

From a couple of posts up...

 

Tuesday, May 19, 2009, 11:36am EDT

Cincinnati Councilwoman Ghiz drops support for streetcars

 

Cincinnati City Councilwoman Leslie Ghiz announced Tuesday that she is revoking her support for an $800,000 streetcar study.

 

Lower than expected tax revenues could produce an $11 million shortfall for the city of Cincinnati in 2009 and a deficit of up to $40 million the next year, city officials told council’s Finance Committee Monday.

 

Ghiz said in a news release that she wants to rechannel the funding to hire two new city prosecutors to combat blight and nuisance issues. She also wants to purchase electronic-monitoring units so inmates turned away by Hamilton County’s overcrowded jail can instead be placed on house arrest.

 

Ghiz said her support for the streetcar “came at a much different economic time.” She now considers public safety to be the city’s top priority.

 

Ghiz was among six members of council who voted to spend $800,000 on an alternatives analysis and environmental studies that would select the best route for a streetcar connection between downtown and the Uptown neighborhoods surrounding the University of Cincinnati.

 

It is my humble opinion that we have, in fact, spent the last 206 pages talking about a trolley to nowhere.

 

Why does this all of a sudden "trolley to nowhere" make any sense?  It's also interesting to note the now deliberate use of the word trolley by anyone speaking negatively about the project.  It's also clear that puns are extremely popular when it comes to the topic of streetcars and rail transit.  Why is that, is it because people don't take it seriously and they show this by marginalizing the news related to the project to that of a film title or simple play on words?  Personally I don't get it.

I suppose I could add that there is funding... just not the full amount that is required. We are sooo close.

I will say that the lack of information from the city manager is a little disconcerting. Also disconcerting is the fact that we have yet to see any green from the Feds.

 

Sherman, you say we're close on the funding? Do we have a known dollar amount? I desperately want some good news on this, but every day that goes by makes me feel less confident about this project.  Add the revenue shortfall to the list too, I can just hear the opposition: "we fired 20 social workers just so they could build their choo choo to nowhere..."

 

I want some good news! Talk me back from the ledge!

My biggest concern at this point is time.  As time goes on with no news the opposition gains strength in the vacuum.  I appreciate the fact that we are waiting on federal money and that takes a while.  However, I am becoming increasingly pessimistic that this project will get off the ground.

I will say that the lack of information from the city manager is a little disconcerting. Also disconcerting is the fact that we have yet to see any green from the Feds.

 

The lack of information period is a little disconcerting, and one can only say that "news will be coming" so often before the smokescreen blows away. That's true for any project, and the lack of news for the Cincinnati streetcar project is a little disappointing but large projects such as this can take time.

 

That said, the project is still listed on the stimulus measure, and few transit projects in Ohio have had their funds released. For a total funding overview, I'd link to my article, but I'm currently rebuilding my site's database.

i'm bear on this getting done too

I always thought they needed UC buses that would transports students only.

 

The Bearcat Transportation System is around for the sole purpose of transporting students only.

 

The BTS is pretty good on weekend nights and gets good ridership, but its really annoying to get downtown.  The route that goes out of clifton first circles campus, then goes to mt adams, then to newport, and then finally to downtown. so if you're trying to get downtown...

I always thought they needed UC buses that would transports students only.

 

The Bearcat Transportation System is around for the sole purpose of transporting students only.

 

The BTS is pretty good on weekend nights and gets good ridership, but its really annoying to get downtown.  The route that goes out of clifton first circles campus, then goes to mt adams, then to newport, and then finally to downtown. so if you're trying to get downtown...

 

Yeah, getting downtown is quite a trip, takes about 30 minutes.  It's usually full on most weekends, too, by the time it makes the first stop or two on campus after returning from downtown.

Doing my typical drive-by comment thing....

 

-Ghiz is being the politician she's always been, and I for one hope she is not an elected official in 2011.

-Council is awful, among other city and county offices

-The streetcar movement is in danger of falling on its face because the good folks downtown failed to understand what would get a public rail done in this town.  If we've got an unfinished subway right under our feet launched at a time where the high rate of violence rate was not an issue, how in the hell did Cincinnati leaders think they would be able to push a loop through neighborhoods with horrible reputations in today's sociopolitical climate?  A line to farther out areas east and west, sadly, was not critical to the realization and construction of Phase I for reasons of nobility, but for social appeasement necessary to get this thing done, and done efficiently.  Do I think Phase I will happen?  Yes.  Will it be on time?  There's plenty enough air to go around for all of us.

 

What was the most recent official word we've gotten about the status of the streetcar project? Last I heard, the city had issued an RFQ (Request for Qualifications) for companies interested in forming a design-build-operate joint venture. The deadline for the RFQ was December 18th, which, as far as large infrastructure projects go, wasn't that long ago. Assuming the project hasn't been put on hold in the meantime, the city has probably awarded the contracts and schematic design has begun. I'd expect the design phase on a project like this to take at least a year; I've been working on a far less complicated transit project here in the NYC area for almost a year now, and construction probably won't begin until sometime next year. (And unlike the streetcar project, my client already has the funding in hand.)

 

All of that is basically a long way of saying that these things take a lot of time. There's a lot of stuff that happens behind the scenes and out of public view, but that doesn't mean progress isn't being made even if you don't actually see construction equipment out on the streets. Think of The Banks: All that time while people were complaining that nothing was happening, there were entire offices full of architects, engineers, and consultants producing the design before the first shovel of dirt could be turned.

 

It would still be nice to get some official word about the project's status from the City Manager or Mayor Mallory, though, if only to serve as a morale boost for those of us here in the peanut gallery.

>It's also clear that puns are extremely popular when it comes to the topic of streetcars and rail transit. 

 

People love blurting out a "to nowhere" exhortation. It makes them feel good about themselves. A road to nowhere, a bridge to nowhere, etc., when there is often a pretty good explanation for why things ended up the way they did, but the average person doesn't have the patience to hear the full story. 

 

Someone brought up the subway, which is relevant to the current discussion, because it was paid for with a $6 million bond issue from 1916.  The bonds were not paid off until around 1963.  It's relevant because every year bonds are being paid off by municipalities nationwide, that's how they are able to issue new debt.  People exclaim "where's the money coming from" without having any idea how cities borrow money.  Also, nobody's done the math, but the subway probably did pay for itself, at least in part, due to the use of the surface right-of-way for our local match for I-75. 

 

Also Portland did receive a $75 million federal award for its streetcar expansion. This is significant because it signifies that the federal government will award money for modern streetcar projects. 

 

Incidentally, whenever you hear O'Toole or whoever argue that Portland voted against rail expansion, that was actually a statewide vote for the state to help fund Portland transit projects. 

I will say that the lack of information from the city manager is a little disconcerting. Also disconcerting is the fact that we have yet to see any green from the Feds.

 

The lack of information period is a little disconcerting, and one can only say that "news will be coming" so often before the smokescreen blows away. That's true for any project, and the lack of news for the Cincinnati streetcar project is a little disappointing but large projects such as this can take time.

I'm glad you guys are addressing this issue. I commented on it a few pages back and was overlooked for a response. I understand that this is an incredibly charged issue, and it takes a lot of maneuvering to make these deals happen, but the silence IS DEAFENING. I think it would really help the Cincinnatians For Progress case if there were some evidence that--as Sherman put it--we are sooo close. Why have all this effort wasted?! Why throw all the money already lined out (assuming that something is lined up)?! :?

My point is that a project like the streetcar absolutely has to have buy-in across the political spectrum. It will be a big and long-term financial commitment. While it may be true, that by 1963, the subway had paid for itself, it's failure helped bring down the once dominant Cincinnati GOP. The rise of Charter and the Dems was deeply connected to the perceived cronyism and corruption of the late GOP regime. The revolution in city gov't meant the new regime had no investment in seeing the project finished.

I don't buy that the crap that the 'progressive' forces can ram it through and then the scales will be lifted from folks eyes.

 

I'm not saying Ghiz is right on this at all, but this city hasn't changed that much that it can't continue to support a rump GOP that can cause rhetorical trouble. Throw in the loonies at the NAASmithermanP/COAST and you've got enough folks to kill it.

>It's also clear that puns are extremely popular when it comes to the topic of streetcars and rail transit.

 

People love blurting out a "to nowhere" exhortation. It makes them feel good about themselves. A road to nowhere, a bridge to nowhere, etc., when there is often a pretty good explanation for why things ended up the way they did, but the average person doesn't have the patience to hear the full story.

 

Someone brought up the subway, which is relevant to the current discussion, because it was paid for with a $6 million bond issue from 1916. The bonds were not paid off until around 1963. It's relevant because every year bonds are being paid off by municipalities nationwide, that's how they are able to issue new debt. People exclaim "where's the money coming from" without having any idea how cities borrow money. Also, nobody's done the math, but the subway probably did pay for itself, at least in part, due to the use of the surface right-of-way for our local match for I-75.  

 

Also Portland did receive a $75 million federal award for its streetcar expansion. This is significant because it signifies that the federal government will award money for modern streetcar projects.

 

Incidentally, whenever you hear O'Toole or whoever argue that Portland voted against rail expansion, that was actually a statewide vote for the state to help fund Portland transit projects.  

 

How is it that you are such an expert on what everyone is thinking.  If the first phase was a line from Clifton to downtown without the OTR loop, I think there would be much more support.  The loop through OTR is what turns people off.

How do you propose getting from Clifton to downtown without going through OTR? Via Hyde Park Square?

It has to travel through Over-the-Rhine to get to the UC area, unless you're proposing to route it the opposite way around Planet Earth. 

How clever, but we aren't talking about a loop to Clifton and back.  We are talking about a loop to OTR and back.  Obviously it has to go both ways to Clifton.

Last time I checked, the whole point of the streetcar is to connect Clifton and downtown, via OTR. The open question was whether the Clifton extension would be part of the first phase or the second phase. (Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong about this.)

 

If you're so concerned about having streetcar service between UC and downtown, maybe you should be focusing your efforts on ensuring that the Clifton extension is built, rather than opposing the whole project altogether.

That's the point, the initial phase was to be a loop through OTR with a Clifton extension.  I think it is more important to have the Clifton leg be the initial phase, with everything else coming off that.

 

Does anyone really think that what is said here about streetcars on UO affects anyone other than those who post here?  What are these opposing efforts of which you speak?

  If the first phase was a line from Clifton to downtown without the OTR loop, I think there would be much more support.  The loop through OTR is what turns people off.

 

Dan, may I ask why you are against development in OTR--assuming you are speaking for yourself as well as others? If you are unsure about the plausibility of this plan helping OTR, it's not a new idea. The same idea is applied in suburban malls, and casino developments. You have anchors (CBD and UC) and those support/draw traffic to everything in between. The fact that this plan will connect already successful stops in OTR (Findlay Market, Gateway Quarter, etc...) actually adds to its viability. The fact is, the City cannot afford to let OTR lose moment and slip back into decline. The future of this city is dependant on the future of its core. Why not ensure everyone's future, including the two destinations you've already said you support connecting with rail??

I am all for development in OTR. 

So, you want to see the first phase run from UC to the base of the hill and simply stop, and then the second phase would extend it to downtown? That's about as ass-backwards as possible. If you want the entire line from UC to downtown to be built at once, I'll get behind that idea, but if that's not feasible, I'll support the first phase to OTR. The perfect is the enemy of the good.

 

The first phase as planned would directly serve the Findlay Market area, so it's not as if it's going nowhere. Eventual streetcar service to Uptown is crucial to the project's success, though.

 

This forum and other blog sites serve an important role in informing the public and framing the debate about the streetcar. This may go down as the city's first major project that was driven in large part by the netroots. Aside from idiots like The Dean™, the local blogs like Cincy Streetcar, Somewhere Over the Rhine, 5schw4rt7, and Phony Coney have been crucial in combating the misinformation being spewed from the likes of Smitherman and COAST. Dead-tree media like the Enquirer is rapidly going the way of the telegraph and Betamax; what we're seeing here is the future of public discourse.

 

Speaking of which:

 

From CityKin today:

"...they want to see the rails in the ground before they make the investment. They're ready to rehab all the way up the hill.." - talking with a local building inspector who is in charge of prosecuting owners of vacant buildings in OTR.

What was the most recent official word we've gotten about the status of the streetcar project? Last I heard, the city had issued an RFQ (Request for Qualifications) for companies interested in forming a design-build-operate joint venture. The deadline for the RFQ was December 18th, which, as far as large infrastructure projects go, wasn't that long ago. Assuming the project hasn't been put on hold in the meantime, the city has probably awarded the contracts and schematic design has begun. I'd expect the design phase on a project like this to take at least a year; I've been working on a far less complicated transit project here in the NYC area for almost a year now, and construction probably won't begin until sometime next year. (And unlike the streetcar project, my client already has the funding in hand.)

 

If the city has awarded contracts, that would be public information and they would have made a press release related to a significate step.