June 1, 200916 yr Where in my quote did I say the streetcar would eliminate poverty in Cincinnati? Little known fact: 45% of the ridership of the Downtown/OTR streetcar loop is projected to be persons earning less that $20,000 per year. It's in the city's study. It will certainly save a lot of money for low-income families in the area served, many of whom spend a quarter to a third of their disposable incomes on local transportation. Once the streetcar is underway, what is done with the displaced culture of OTR, who is credited for the improvements to our city, and who is blamed for the drawbacks and pitfalls that will also accompany this paradigm shift? I know of at least one guy who has pondered these biggies. Clue - he's very unpopular on UO.
June 1, 200916 yr I read on another thread a study that was done that showed that gentrification is better for everyone in the neighborhood because, although some do get displaced, those who are left are better. I recall it being related to increased job and economic opportunities.
June 1, 200916 yr I read on another thread a study that was done that showed that gentrification is better for everyone in the neighborhood because, although some do get displaced, those who are left are better. I recall it being related to increased job and economic opportunities. god bless effective sarcasm
June 1, 200916 yr Where in my quote did I say the streetcar would eliminate poverty in Cincinnati? Little known fact: 45% of the ridership of the Downtown/OTR streetcar loop is projected to be persons earning less that $20,000 per year. It's in the city's study. It will certainly save a lot of money for low-income families in the area served, many of whom spend a quarter to a third of their disposable incomes on local transportation. UC students generally do not make over $20k in a year while in school
June 1, 200916 yr I read on another thread a study that was done that showed that gentrification is better for everyone in the neighborhood because, although some do get displaced, those who are left are better. I recall it being related to increased job and economic opportunities. god bless effective sarcasm ???
June 1, 200916 yr Where in my quote did I say the streetcar would eliminate poverty in Cincinnati? Little known fact: 45% of the ridership of the Downtown/OTR streetcar loop is projected to be persons earning less that $20,000 per year. It's in the city's study. It will certainly save a lot of money for low-income families in the area served, many of whom spend a quarter to a third of their disposable incomes on local transportation. UC students generally do not make over $20k in a year while in school Not sure what the point is, but the estimations probably included very few UC students since the city's study was limited to Downtown and Over-the-Rhine, and I doubt many students live there.
June 1, 200916 yr If there's anything OTR (especially the western and northern parts of the neighborhood) needs, it's a bit of gentrification. I'd hate to see OTR reach a point where the local businesses are priced out of the neighborhood and there's nothing but Starbucks and The Gap in every storefront, but the neighborhood has a long ways to go before it reaches that point. If "displaced culture" means drug-dealing and gang violence, I'd be happy to see it displaced all the way to the moon.
June 1, 200916 yr Question: Is Over-the-Rhine even 20% occupied right now? Counting what could be built on the vacant land , I bet it's less than 10% occupied.
June 2, 200916 yr I love this comment left on Randy's UrbanCincy article today: john does Amsterdam said... 'And now, conservatives have the audacity to claim that increasing transportation options will limit the personal choice to drive a car, or...drive a car.' this is good. and so true. the reason i didn't stay in cinci after graduation was simply: I didn't want to own a car. I currently have no car. Which means: no car payment, no car insurance, no car maintenance, and no gas to buy. It's perfect. I bike to work. And if it's raining - it take the tram. Or streetcar, as cinci calls it. it is a convenience. and there is no doubt that businesses flourish among the 16 or so various tram lines that snake through amsterdam. it's perfect.and leaves everyone's options open. and - shockingly - everyone avoids hitting each other. bikes, trams, cars and pedestrians. who would have thought it possible? I think we're underestimating the number of people who don't want to deal with cars and would go out of their way (i.e., move to another city) in order for that to be possible. One of my friends who's not even especially a "city person" was talking about moving to Chicago after graduation because of how easy it is to get around without a car. Between the lack of car payments, insurance, gas, and parking costs... not having to worry about where your car is parked or what might happen to it (i.e., get broken into, get hit, get towed if you accidentally park illegally)... not having to worry about drinking and driving, (or taking a taxi and trying to figure out where your car is the next day). The car-free lifestyle definitely appeals to the younger generation in a way that COASTers could never understand.
June 3, 200916 yr Cross-posted from the Rethinking Transport in USA section: From the USDOT Secretary Ray Lahood's blog.... http://fastlane.dot.gov/2009/06/public-transportation-delivers-public-benefits.html June 02, 2009 Public transportation delivers public benefits President Obama was elected to harness a national will to do things better. One thing I think Americans would like to see improved is how transportation serves the communities in which they live. We love our cars, but sometimes there can be a better way to get to work or to the beach, or simply to the drug store. And providing Americans with those choices can also be good for the economy. In fact, each 1% of regional travel shifted from automobile to public transit increases regional income about $2.9 million, resulting in 226 additional regional jobs. Other economic benefits include increased productivity, employment, business activity, investment and redevelopment. Cities with well-established rail systems have less traffic congestion, lower traffic death rates, lower consumer expenditures on transportation, significantly higher per capita transit ridership, lower average per capita vehicle mileage, and higher transit service cost recovery than otherwise comparable cities with less or no rail transit service. Moreover, whether in Houston, Texas, or Portland, Oregon, rail transit systems not only provide economic, but social and environmental benefits. Social benefits of transit include improved public health, greater flexibility in trip planning and accessibility for non-drivers. Rail travel consumes about a fifth of the energy per passenger-mile as automobile travel. Electric powered rail produces minimal air and noise emissions. Many criticisms of rail transit investment are based on inaccurate or incomplete analysis. For example, transit critics often cite operating costs. This overlooks the significant returns that rail transit offers. In 2002, for example, rail transit required about $12.5 billion annually in public subsidy. However, these costs were offset several times over by $19.4 billion in congestion costs savings, $8.0 billion in roadway cost savings, $12.1 billion in parking cost savings, $22.6 billion in consumer cost saving, and $5.6 billion in reduced crash damages. Developing public transportation increases choices, for drivers as well as riders. Developing public transportation makes sense. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
June 4, 200916 yr More rubbish from 700 WLW (you can't make this stuff up): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKsAcuHtO5I
June 4, 200916 yr More rubbish from 700 WLW (you can't make this stuff up): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKsAcuHtO5I I often enjoy a lot of the programs on 700 WLW; Eddie and Tracy being the one I seem to hear most often with my current work schedule. As much as I like some shows, Eddie and Tracy are an absolute joke. Tracy is so full of himself it's like you'd almost think he was kidding, but it's so sad that he's not. Does he realize that he wasn't that good of a ball player?
June 4, 200916 yr 36 Reasons Streetcars Are Better Than Buses http://www.infrastructurist.com/2009/06/03/36-reasons-that-streetcars-are-better-than-buses/ If you want a system that really attracts riders and investment, many transit experts will attest that streetcars are the best dollar-for-dollar investment a city can make. Of course, there are plenty of situations where old-fashioned bus service or newfangled bus rapid transit (which usually has dedicated lanes) are just the thing. But for cities facing a choice between building a streetcar system or high-end BRT–and the cost difference can be smaller than might think–it’s handy to know that transit riders overwhelming prefer streetcars. Well, overwhelmingly if the comments section from a recent story on this site can be taken as a fair sample. One reader posed the question, “buses or streetcars?” and the responses–from laypeople and transportation experts alike–came fast and furious. In the end, we were left with dozens of reasons why streetcars are superior, ranging from the obvious to the wonderfully creative. [Continued on their website...]
June 4, 200916 yr Here's the story about the feces-flicking homeless guy in Phoenix...linked to by no less than The Drudge Report. The amazing thing is that at the end of the story they report that no evidence was found that this actually happened: http://www.myfoxphoenix.com/dpp/news/text_only/feces_on_light_rail_06_02_2009
June 4, 200916 yr I read on another thread a study that was done that showed that gentrification is better for everyone in the neighborhood because, although some do get displaced, those who are left are better. I recall it being related to increased job and economic opportunities. Academic studies and real-life are two different things. Gentrification rarely attacks the interurban issue of cyclical poverty and disenfranchisement, particularly along sociopolitical lines, which is the central issue of OTR's problems. It's no coincidence that those who typically agree with gentrification are not of the same ilk as those who lived among the dilapidation as a child of that community or as a long-time resident with a locally average social mobility.
June 4, 200916 yr Gentrification rarely attacks the interurban issue of cyclical poverty and disenfranchisement, particularly along sociopolitical lines... Should it even be expected to? I've seen OTR in it's current state. Bring on the "gentrification"! It can't be any worse than the last few decades there have been.
June 4, 200916 yr http://cincinnati.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2009/06/01/daily49.html Who's going to step up and halt the petition in Cincinnati because the "misleading" tactics used by COAST or by the NAACP (i'm sure there is evidence of such on smitherman's radio show every week)
June 4, 200916 yr ^ If anyone has solid proof of this happening, they should contact CincinnatiansforProgress.com and report it. We've all heard the stories. People who feel the signature-gatherers misrepresented the facts to them need to come forward at this time.
June 5, 200916 yr ^ I just saw on the Columbus news that the current casino petition is in trouble due to a signature gatherer lying and saying that Youngstown would get a casino under the current proposal even though it will not. I believe the AG is getting involved. What someone did was use their cell phone camera to catch the guy in the act, then posted it on YouTube. There are certainly consequences for misrepresenting petition language.
June 5, 200916 yr Where in my quote did I say the streetcar would eliminate poverty in Cincinnati? Little known fact: 45% of the ridership of the Downtown/OTR streetcar loop is projected to be persons earning less that $20,000 per year. It's in the city's study. It will certainly save a lot of money for low-income families in the area served, many of whom spend a quarter to a third of their disposable incomes on local transportation. UC students generally do not make over $20k in a year while in school Not sure what the point is, but the estimations probably included very few UC students since the city's study was limited to Downtown and Over-the-Rhine, and I doubt many students live there. My mistake, thought the study was an estimate on who may ride it the most and I see a lot of students taking advantage
June 5, 200916 yr ^ The study that will estimate ridership in Uptown is about to begin. It will be on the same level of discovery as the 200-page study of the Downtown/OTR Loop. I understand they will also undertake a Benefit/Cost Study of the Uptown extension. So we'll know the number of riders who are students by the fall and whether the Uptown extension raises or lowers the overall return on the project. I think it depends a lot of the route.
June 5, 200916 yr I read on another thread a study that was done that showed that gentrification is better for everyone in the neighborhood because, although some do get displaced, those who are left are better. I recall it being related to increased job and economic opportunities. Academic studies and real-life are two different things. Gentrification rarely attacks the interurban issue of cyclical poverty and disenfranchisement, particularly along sociopolitical lines, which is the central issue of OTR's problems. It's no coincidence that those who typically agree with gentrification are not of the same ilk as those who lived among the dilapidation as a child of that community or as a long-time resident with a locally average social mobility. The study, if I recall correctly was an observational study which showed that the real-life effects of gentrification benefit the remaining residents enough to compensate for the amount of displacement.. thus (for any econ people) creating a potential, and realized, Pareto improvement.
June 5, 200916 yr Gentrification rarely attacks the interurban issue of cyclical poverty and disenfranchisement, particularly along sociopolitical lines... Should it even be expected to? I've seen OTR in it's current state. Bring on the "gentrification"! It can't be any worse than the last few decades there have been. Yes it should, because societal benefit is the universal justification for gentrification. When you take out the human factor of altering an entrenched neighborhood, you now have politicians working with developers to line their pockets and nothing more.
June 6, 200916 yr "Gentrification", as you call it, implies that there's something inherently wrong with fixing up a deteriorating neighborhood, making it more attractive to those who could choose instead to live elsewhere. It doesn't need justification, because it isn't a societal evil. The architectural beauty in OTR won't last forever without investment in rehabilitations. I have no moral qualms with the potential restoration of a once-thriving neighborhood, which (as pointed out elsewhere in this thread) is currently less than 50% occupied. //EDIT: I don't want to see anyone pushed out of their neighborhood, but OTR would have to change A LOT before that happens and there's a ton of work to be done before that becomes a concern.
June 8, 200916 yr "Gentrification", as you call it, implies that there's something inherently wrong with fixing up a deteriorating neighborhood, making it more attractive to those who could choose instead to live elsewhere. It doesn't need justification, because it isn't a societal evil. The architectural beauty in OTR won't last forever without investment in rehabilitations. I have no moral qualms with the potential restoration of a once-thriving neighborhood, which (as pointed out elsewhere in this thread) is currently less than 50% occupied. //EDIT: I don't want to see anyone pushed out of their neighborhood, but OTR would have to change A LOT before that happens and there's a ton of work to be done before that becomes a concern. Gentrification implies that there are certain social hurdles that must be cleared in order to form a mixed, thriving community in the targeted area and to ensure that those affected by the transition most, which include but not limited to the African-Americans downtown and the Price Hill-Avondale-Walnut Hills ring of neighborhoods, are treated with respect and their civil rights are not being assaulted. Gentrification does need justification, because it is a societal evil. OTR was primarily white until the 1950's. The West End was primarily black in the 1940's. When the city decided to play Sim City with the neighborhood and build segregated public housing, and later, idiotic routes for interstates and expressways, this destroyed the heart of Cincinnati, which was in the West End at the time of demolition. It affected downtown, uptown and the westside like nobody's business. Blacks were moved here, no wait, go there, etc. the ripple effect on our city has been that of a natural disaster. When white Cincinnatians decided to give up on downtown, that was city elite leaving disenfranchised blacks with the issue of a declining large district that would be expensive to maintain and rehabilitate. Now that it's trendy to live in more urban backdrops again, blacks should not demand a larger voice and at the very least, more explicit explanations for the changing politics downtown? I hope Cincinnati isn't the next city in a long line of Washingtons and Chicagos to push its blacks out of its most valuable assets, instead of being one of the first cities to encourage a rebirth of its most historic neighborhood with a black majority intact.
June 8, 200916 yr OTR didn't start out as a black neighborhood, and it doesn't really have the culture of a historic black neighborhood like U Street in DC, Harlem, or even Walnut Hills locally. I welcome gentrification in OTR, because if it doesn't happen, the neighborhood will continue to deteriorate, and the buildings will continue to come down. I certainly hope that there is a place for some of the current residents, but I think we are a long, long way of ever coming down to not having room in OTR. Just because two blocks on Vine have been rehabbed does not mean the neighborhood as a whole is transforming. Outside of of 3CDC's efforts, there has been very little private investment in other parts of the neighborhood, meaning that there is more than enough space for those currently there.
June 8, 200916 yr CityBlights, why do you assume that black has to equal poor and potentially dislocatable? No one is telling members of the black middle class not to invest in OTR and help renew the neighborhood. In fact, it would be fantastic if Cincinnati could add to our relatively limited number of integrated neighborhoods, not make this another retrograde battle.
June 8, 200916 yr Misplaced Priorities http://www.cincinnatiansforprogress.com/Blog/2009/06/misplaced-priorities.asp The proposed Anti-Progress Charter Amendment would prevent the City from spending money on "right-of-way acquisition or construction of improvements for passenger rail" without first bringing this decision to the voters. The proponents of this legislation seem intent on stopping all progress in the city, so it makes sense they are against all rail transportation. But why stop there? Why not stop any progress being made to other transportation and infrastructure projects? Why are they only focused on rail transit, a minuscule percentage of the total spending on transportation? What the proponents of the Anti-Progress Charter Amendment also fail to mention is that there is often a local match required for all federal transportation and infrastructure investments. Meaning, if the Anti-Progress Charter Amendment passes, then the city would have to bypass all federal funds for rail in the city since the local match can not be secured. It's not like the City can just decide to spend these dollars on other projects. These federal dollars will go to some other City, not Cincinnati. For example, check out this article in this morning's Enquirer, which outlines our local Congressional Representative's earmark requests in the massive transportation and infrastructure bill going through Congress. In total, Reps. Driehaus and Schmidt requested $553,160,000. Projects within the city limit account for $467,200,000. Of that amount, only $5,000,000 is requested for rail. So, the Anti-Progress Charter Amendment folks are more concerned with stopping the expenditure of $5,000,000 for rail but see no issues with the $462,200,000 of funding that the City could be responsible for matching locally. If the Anti-Progress Charter Amendment supporters were serious about wanting to let the people have their say on transportation expenditures, they wouldn't have made the language of their Amendment focused on rail. What this Amendment will do is force the City to give up critical transportation and infrastructure improvement dollars and turn Cincinnati into a California style government. How is that style of government by referendum working for California? Check out this story in today's LA Times, a result of the multi-Billion dollar budget crisis facing the state. "Faced with what he calculates to be a potential $24-billion budget deficit in the fiscal year starting July 1, Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger has proposed cutting state supplemental payments for the elderly and disabled down to the minimum allowed by federal law. It would be their third cut this year." Is this the kind of government we want in Cincinnati?
June 9, 200916 yr CityBlights, why do you assume that black has to equal poor and potentially dislocatable? No one is telling members of the black middle class not to invest in OTR and help renew the neighborhood. In fact, it would be fantastic if Cincinnati could add to our relatively limited number of integrated neighborhoods, not make this another retrograde battle. edale, good points. dmerkow, this is how race has been politically represented in Cincinnati historically. I don't think there's any question that the overarching perception of city neighborhoods is black = more than likely poor and violent. Let's be clear on this - you just conceded Cincinnati's limited number of socially integrated areas as a major issue. It would be nice if OTR worked out that way, but realistically, consider the politics involved. -Why would middle-class blacks jump at OTR? They will take a wait-and-see approach, possibly the longest of any potential major investor. -Conservative whites will be slow to move, and frustrated at all of the general things today's Republican would be upset over concerning public works that doesn't directly serve their wants. -South Asians and Middle Easterners will likely continue to establish themselves Uptown. Economically this figures to be a poor black and socially-mobile white juxtaposition. Have we found a way to make Mount Adams and OTR the same place again?
June 9, 200916 yr Streetcar Project Announcement When: Wednesday, June 10 4p.m. Who: Mayor Mark Mallory City Manager Milton Dohoney Where: The Rookwood Pottery Company 1920 Race Street* Cincinnati, Ohio 45202 P 513-381-2510 The Mayor and City Manager will announce progress on the streetcar project. This is not funding related. *look for the Catanzaro Sons & Daughters on the side of the building *plenty of free parking in the large lot immediately north of Findlay Market and at the street meters along Race Street
June 9, 200916 yr Presumably there will be some good news, or else they wouldn't be making a PR event out of it.
June 9, 200916 yr I *might* be able to make it, but geez, give us a little bit more than a one day notice :P
June 9, 200916 yr I just heard about this a few minutes ago and I'm so excited to find out what its about I don't think I'll be able to sleep tonight!! :-o What I really hope to hear is that they will just go ahead and start the darn project so that there won't be anymore garbage with the NAACP to worry about. Though I remember reading that the NAACP is planning to sue the city if they try to start the project before November. I don't think they would be able to win in a trial anyway, but it would be one more thing to worry about.
June 9, 200916 yr I'll be there on my bike with a camera in hand. I'll share news as soon as I find out.
June 9, 200916 yr Maybe the receipt of some federal stimulus money? It would be hilarious if they started the project before November. The NAACP and COAST could try to sue, but the case would be tossed out in five minutes. Smitherman and Finney would then have a huge amount of egg on their faces.
June 9, 200916 yr I'll be there...feel free to shoot me an email if you want to meet up. Also, a Facebook event page has been created. So if you're on Facebook please go RSVP so that it shows up in your news feed. http://www.facebook.com/home.php#/event.php?eid=213091030382
June 10, 200916 yr Unfortunately I won't be there with my new bike because I'll be driving from work :|
June 10, 200916 yr Maybe the receipt of some federal stimulus money? Please note that the PR notice says this announcement is not funding related. And why say only how to get there by car? Shouldn't they also say what bus routes are within 1 block of an announcement on how to improve transit service? Cleveland RTA used to announce the location of public hearings for transit projects, saying only what parking was available at the site. They were confronted and now announce the bus/rail routes that serve a meeting site. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
June 10, 200916 yr Maybe the receipt of some federal stimulus money? It would be hilarious if they started the project before November. The NAACP and COAST could try to sue, but the case would be tossed out in five minutes. Smitherman and Finney would then have a huge amount of egg on their faces. That would be awesome to hear we got stimulus money! And I agree, I would LOVE to be able to laugh at Smitherman if they start the project before November or even before they finish their petition drive. That's what the city ultimately needs to do to avoid this stupid campaign anyway.
June 10, 200916 yr And why say only how to get there by car? Shouldn't they also say what bus routes are within 1 block of an announcement on how to improve transit service? The Facebook event page description reads as follows: Cincinnati Mayor Mark Mallory and City Manager Milton Dohoney will announce progress on Cincinnati's modern streetcar proposal. It is said that this announcement will not be funding related, but you never know. Those who are unfamiliar with Rookwood's new location are advised to look for the Catanzaro Sons & Daughters on the side of the building on Race Street (east side of street - left). Transportation: For those bicycling to the announcement, there are plenty of spaces to lock up your bike along Race Street around Rookwood Pottery. You can also use Metro's trip planner to get to the event by bus here: http://tripplanner.go-metro.com:8082/hiwire?.a=iTripPlanning&.s=18593cf3. There is also plenty of free parking available in the large lot immediately north of Findlay Market and at the street meters along Race Street.
June 10, 200916 yr I'm gonna be stuck at work. Anyone gonna be able to post what is happening? Anyone?
June 10, 200916 yr Just walked back home from the event. The City Manager announced the winning development team from the three that responded to the RFQ. The team includes (among others) local firms Parsons Brinkerhof, Burgess and Niple, Megan Construction, and DNK Architects. The most interesting thing was that standing there, amongst the other members of the team, behind the mayor himself, was a SMITHERMAN! Smitherman's family's concrete company mentioned in the Phoney Coney article (http://thephonyconey.blogspot.com/2009/05/its-blue-ash-airport-mcfly.html)is a main member of the team. I wonder what the result of (and the intention behind this move) will be?
June 10, 200916 yr Unless the whole point of Smitherman's opposition was to help his family's business get a piece of the contract, in exchange for the quiet death of that goofy charter resolution. I know, I know, let the conspiracy theories begin.
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