What is COAST?

If you are desiring for a blog entry that bashes COAST, or Citizens Opposed to Additional Spending and Taxes, then you are probably reading the wrong blog for that.

 

Let me make it clear that I am a streetcar supporter, and that I live in Over-the-Rhrine in Cincinnati. I commute to work via a SUV, bicycle and motorcycle. I am also not a Republican, but a Democrat who voted for Barrack Obama. Therefore, I have probably broken every stereotypical mold that you can probably imagine.

 

So one would assume, since I am a streetcar supporter, that I would be in favor of a pro-streetcar organization in Cincinnati? Cincinnatians For Progress, an organization that is lobbying for the streetcar and rail-based mass-transit for the region, has been active since March 2009, yet it has made little inroads and little progress since its inception.

 

Due to its length, I'm not reposting it here in its entire length, but you can read the entire entry at the UrbanUp blog.

Very nice post Sherman.

Nice blog post.  I went over to the Activist Toolkit and it is awesome.  Actually, it could easily be copied for the pro-streetcar side as it really espouses little political POV.  I love how the first item is "Run for Office".

 

Incidentally, the things I quoted came from here: http://coast-usa.blogspot.com/2009/08/petitions-submitted-to-city-council.html

 

Thanks (both). It was a bit rushed, as I'm falling asleep at the desk here, but I may clean it up a bit tomorrow morning.

And more proof that our local media is completely incompetent... Take a look at the latest "Consider This" video from Fox19.  I'll respond to it in more detail later:

 

http://www.fox19.com/Global/category.asp?C=65470

^I can't believe what I just watched.

^^ Whaaaaaa????

WTF! I am speechless...

Laying off police is one of the worst things the city could go in terms of hoping to get the streetcar built.  That made it a whole lot tougher to justify the project.  The streetcar and crime in OTR are inevitably linked, and the hierarchy of needs is a strong police force, more jail cells, and a streetcar – in that order, according to a lot of people.

What did you expect from a Fox station?  They are so in bed with the neo-cons who oppose almost anything that rides on rails.

Some fairly unbiased reporting from the Enquirer on the effects of the anti-rail ballot initiative:

 

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20090806/NEWS01/908090304/Special+Report++On+opposite+tracks

Laying off police is one of the worst things the city could go in terms of hoping to get the streetcar built. That made it a whole lot tougher to justify the project. The streetcar and crime in OTR are inevitably linked, and the hierarchy of needs is a strong police force, more jail cells, and a streetcar – in that order, according to a lot of people.

 

No matter how many police you throw into OTR, until there is a critical mass of redevelopment and ownership, it is just a temporary fix.  The only way to sustain the gains in safety in OTR is to continue to develop it.  Police alone won't do it.

 

Development = Safety

To ignore one and to put all of the emphasis on the other is a guaranteed recipe for disaster.

 

We have seen that with Queensgate closing, and 800 criminal felons released -- and the overflowing conditions at the existing jail we do have, that crime rates in OTR and the West End have increased. Homicides are a weekly occurrence, and we are now within reach of last year's homicide totals to date.

 

Of course, development helps. Look at what has happened at 12th and Vine compared to five years ago. 500+ calls to that site to 911 in a year has been reduced to just 2 last year. This was done in tandem with increased police presence and enforcement.

From the Enquirer: "Michael Chen, Tampa's development services manager, points to compelling statistical evidence of the streetcar's impact. With the exception of an Ikea store that recently opened east of downtown, every other pending development in the city with approved permits or working its way through the zoning process - $2.9 billion in all - falls within two blocks of the streetcar's existing or planned route, he said."

 

Tampa is 112 square miles.  Aside from the Ikea 100% of all development in Tampa is occuring in the 0.91 square miles within two blocks of the streetcar and extension.  (Assuming 2.4 miles streetcar, 0.33 mile extension + 2 blocks at the ends of each line and two blocks from either side at 400 ft per block). 

 

Essentially Tampa has nearly 100% of its development occurring in the 0.8% of the city with a streetcar.

The greatest social program ever invented?

 

A job.

From the Enquirer: "Michael Chen, Tampa's development services manager, points to compelling statistical evidence of the streetcar's impact. With the exception of an Ikea store that recently opened east of downtown, every other pending development in the city with approved permits or working its way through the zoning process - $2.9 billion in all - falls within two blocks of the streetcar's existing or planned route, he said."

 

Tampa is 112 square miles.  Aside from the Ikea 100% of all development in Tampa is occuring in the 0.91 square miles within two blocks of the streetcar and extension.  (Assuming 2.4 miles streetcar, 0.33 mile extension + 2 blocks at the ends of each line and two blocks from either side at 400 ft per block). 

 

Essentially Tampa has nearly 100% of its development occurring in the 0.8% of the city with a streetcar.

 

I have a question?  Can tampas street car really be used as an example?It's mainly a "tourist" vehicle and single tracks for quite a bit of its line.

The greatest social program ever invented?

 

A job.

That why you have (or had) 2-3 at the same time?

Tampa's streetcar is definitely mostly heritage/tourist gimmick, and serious transportation a distant second.  It appears to connect downtown Tampa, which is a minimal job center, with the Carnival Cruise dock.  There are some big new condo towers there, but I'm not sure how full they are.  I see the big problem with Tampa's system is if Carnival every pulls out.  They've made a huge investment there (huge parking garages), so it would appear they're there for the long-haul, but with airlines pulling out of hubs, I wouldn't put it past them, especially since they probably got tens of millions out of Tampa and Florida's governments in tax incentives and straight-up cash.   

thomas, you've got to look closer at that, I think.  For example, are there other policy levers such as zoning preferences, tax subsidies, etc. that are channeling development along that line?  I'm not saying the streetcar had no impact or that other policy levers shouldn't be used, but I'd be willing to be money there's more going on than just a rail line

thomas, you've got to look closer at that, I think. For example, are there other policy levers such as zoning preferences, tax subsidies, etc. that are channeling development along that line? I'm not saying the streetcar had no impact or that other policy levers shouldn't be used, but I'd be willing to be money there's more going on than just a rail line

 

I certainly agree, but in Portland there was a similar phenomenon:

 

"Prior to 1997, land located within one block of the streetcar alignment captured 19% of all development [in the CBD]. Since the streetcar alignment was identified, 55% of all new development within the CBD has occurred within one block of the streetcar."

 

http://www.portlandstreetcar.org/pdf/development_200804_report.pdf

Some fairly unbiased reporting from the Enquirer on the effects of the anti-rail ballot initiative:

 

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20090806/NEWS01/908090304/Special+Report++On+opposite+tracks

 

This article and the related one this guy wrote are EXCELLENT. He got meaningful, thoughtful quotes from great sources.

 

I think this underscores the attitude of the American electorate in general lately, which is in my opinion under-educated yet over-informed, judgmental and distrustful. (Just look at the comments on the article. The ones that rant on about mistrusting the government are riddled with spelling and grammatical errors. You know, in public discourse, that shit matters.)

 

It is impossible fore the electorate to be as informed as those they elect to run the government. The founders of our government knew that direct democracy was too chaotic, yet that seems to be exactly what COAST wants.

I live in China.  I'll be absenteeing my support for this but laying off the police just gave every interest group against the streetcar ammunition so unless there's a massive ground game to get this done, I see a narrow failure.  This isn't a cerebral argument anymore, it actually never was, it's an emotional one.  You sell this as "Cincinnati will be exciting with this"  "Cincinnati has a bright future with this"  "Cincinnati is on the move" but when the headlines read "### Police Officer Fired" or whatever crap that's going to be said about this, you've already loss the audience.  Unless you can get massive flooding on the westside during the election, kaput.

Unless you can get massive flooding on the westside during the election, kaput.

 

I regretfully agree with that statement!

All Aboard Ohio catches COAST and Cincinnati NAACP joining forces on their most recent bicycle outing!! Here's the video proof......

 

 

Of course, the reality is that COAST activists are car potatoes and haven't hopped on bicycles since rail bullies stole their bikes out from under them back when they were elementary school (oops, another mistake, COASTers were home-schooled).

^^^ I wish that were Cincinnati. :( We'd have a train!

 

Instead of attacking various COAST representatives with ad-homiem statements, why not attack them on factual accuracy?

 

This goes back to my COAST blog post. You are not doing the streetcar supporters any favors by comparing COAST to anti-progressive zealots, because quite frankly, they are not anti-progressive. They see progression in a different manner that you may differ with, but that doesn't make their statements any less true than yours.

 

COAST activists are not all car potatoes. I know a few COAST members who are avid cyclists. Likewise, I know quite a few CFP members who drive large SUV's.

I said this before on another thread, but it's worth repeating here. If this charter amendment passes and passenger rail in Cincy is effectively killed, then Northern Kentucky should step up to the plate. Build a streetcar line between downtown Covington and Newport, with provisions for expansion into Cincinnati. In time it could run as far east as Dayton and as far west as Ludlow. Also, begin serious planning for a light rail line between CVG and downtown Covington, again with provisions for expansion across the river when the time comes.

 

The Northern Kentucky projects would probably require some legislation at the state level because they cross municipal and county boundaries, but Frankfort rarely misses an opportunity to snatch some business development from Ohio. COAST's charter amendment won't apply to the projects, and when Cincinnati sees successful rail projects happening across the river and all the development that follows them, the city will be tripping over itself to repeal the charter amendment and link up to the system.

 

Shame can be a powerful motivator... Imagine being able to take a train from the airport into downtown Covington (which is an adequate destination in its own right), but then having to walk or take a bus across a bridge to complete the trip into downtown Cincy. Hell, since the Ohio River is in Kentucky, run a streetcar onto the Purple People Bridge, with its last stop on the bridge literally a foot away from the Ohio state line. People could easily walk from there to the Cincinnati riverfront and the ballpark. Then watch how fast Cincinnati votes to repeal the charter amendment and build their own streetcar.

 

Right now NKY is waiting for Cincinnati to take the first step, and then they'll follow. Maybe they should consider reversing roles, and let Cincinnati follow NKY's lead. Either way, the entire region stands to benefit.

 

You are not doing the streetcar supporters any favors by comparing COAST to anti-progressive zealots, because quite frankly, they are not anti-progressive. They see progression in a different manner that you may differ with, but that doesn't make their statements any less true than yours.

 

 

What do they say about the road to hell is paved with? Even some of the worst, most destructive people in world history believed they were trying to do good things. It is naive to think that all evildoers are intent on doing evil.

 

And while it would be nice to believe that ad-homiem statements are not helpful to a cause, images and emotions unfortunately do influence some people. The other side has used them and so will I.

^ Agreed. Rank-and-file COAST members may sincerely believe they're doing the right thing, but that doesn't absolve them of responsibility for allowing themselves to be played for fools by cynical manipulators like Finney. Same holds true for rank-and-file NAACP members and Smitherman.

 

That said, I generally agree with Sherman's blog post about COAST's superior tactics (if not motives). If CFP wants to be taken seriously, then they need to be matching COAST's every move and doing it better. You don't play nice with people who are trying to kill you. If Smitherman tried to pull this shit in Chicago, Mayor Daley would be sending a busload of building inspectors to every property owned by Smitherman's family. To paraphrase Sean Connery in The Untouchables: If COAST pulls out a knife, CFP needs to pull out a gun. If COAST sends one of ours to the hospital, CFP needs to send one of theirs to the morgue. That's the way to beat Finney and Smitherman.

^ Agreed. Rank-and-file COAST members may sincerely believe they're doing the right thing, but that doesn't absolve them of responsibility for allowing themselves to be played for fools by cynical manipulators like Finney. Same holds true for rank-and-file NAACP members and Smitherman.

 

That said, I generally agree with Sherman's blog post about COAST's superior tactics (if not motives). If CFP wants to be taken seriously, then they need to be matching COAST's every move and doing it better. You don't play nice with people who are trying to kill you. If Smitherman tried to pull this sh!t in Chicago, Mayor Daley would be sending a busload of building inspectors to every property owned by Smitherman's family. To paraphrase Sean Connery in The Untouchables: If COAST pulls out a knife, CFP needs to pull out a gun. If COAST sends one of ours to the hospital, CFP needs to send one of theirs to the morgue. That's the way to beat Finney and Smitherman.

 

Washington Heights is rubbing off on you!  ;)

Either that or my 11 years living in Chicago, and watching Mayor Daley's political bloodsport firsthand.

 

Here's an example of how things happen there:

 

Chicago is a one-party city, so primary season is the de facto election for city officials. (The general election in November is a mere formality.) One winter during the height of the mayoral primary campaign, the city was hit with a major snowstorm. Bobby Rush, who was running to unseat Mayor Daley, decided he could get some publicity by claiming that city streets on the largely-black South Side weren't being plowed as fast or as effectively as on the largely-white North Side. (He was probably right about that, but that's beside the point of this story.) In a stroke of brilliance, he decided to call a press conference at a major South Side intersection that hadn't yet been plowed. So all the city's major media outlets showed up for the presser.

 

No less than two minutes after the presser started, a bunch of Streets and Sanitation plows and salt trucks showed up and began plowing the intersection behind Mr. Rush as the cameras were rolling. In fact, they were making so much noise plowing the streets that Rush had to end the press conference early and go home with his tail between his legs. Naturally, this incident got plenty of airtime in the local media. It didn't help matters that Rush's car had been towed from in front of his campaign office the night before, for being illegally parked in a snow zone. Daley made sure the media reported on that, as well.

 

I'm not advocating that Cincinnati revert back to a Chicago-style "boss" form of government -- been there, done that -- but I think any effective political leader, be it Mayor Mallory or President Obama, has to learn how to play hardball when the need arises.

Even more important to take out of that, KJP, is that COAST is not using ad-homiem attacks. Calling a streetcar a trolley is not an attack, but a misrepresentation that -- in the public's eye, can be the same thing. People really don't give two shits if it is a trolley or a streetcar, but that it costs just the same and has the same function. They are not calling young professionals derogatory names; they are not calling streetcar supporters derogatory names; etc. It's not good to stoop to an imaginary level that doesn't exist.

Either that or my 11 years living in Chicago.

 

You're just gangsta!  Gangsta Gin!  Coming to a speakeasy near you!

Even more important to take out of that, KJP, is that COAST is not using ad-homiem attacks. Calling a streetcar a trolley is not an attack, but a misrepresentation that -- in the public's eye, can be the same thing. People really don't give two sh!ts if it is a trolley or a streetcar, but that it costs just the same and has the same function. They are not calling young professionals derogatory names; they are not calling streetcar supporters derogatory names; etc. It's not good to stoop to an imaginary level that doesn't exist.

 

I'd disagree with this statement generally based on what I've seen posted on their blog from time to time, in addition to the "choo choo" quotes which is to my eye COAST implying that those who back the streetcar are merely juvenile in some way.  I'm guessing I have a distorted view not living there, but that's what it looks like from Cleveland.

This is an extremely critical fight. This isn't merely a decision about whether there be a streetcar or not. It's about the future viability of Cincinnati, its businesses, and its citizens in terms of economics, environmental issues and yes, even, civil rights. Transportation is most definitely a civil rights issue because it promotes the general welfare of the populace. All Aboard Ohio will make this point clearer in the next few days.

 

With rail subject to a vote of the people, Cincinnati is screwed as the peak oil crisis deepens in the coming years. Yes, its location on a navigable waterway is a tremendous asset. Yes, the freight railroads will stay. But Cincinnati isn't going to be able to compete for many jobs when competing cities like St. Louis, Milwaukee, Cleveland, Detroit, Columbus, Pittsburgh, Buffalo and many others will be able to enjoy high-speed rail service while airlines -- one of the most vulnerable sectors of the economy to peak oil -- continue to retreat. And our young people are already fleeing to cities made dynamic by the kinds of rail transit systems which would be kept out of Cincinnati by a uniquely rail-punitive decision-making process.

 

Those are the facts. And that's why this is so serious that I consider the perpetrators of this charter amendment to be nothing less than assailants of Cincinnati's future.

If COAST pulls out a knife, CFP needs to pull out a gun. If COAST sends one of ours to the hospital, CFP needs to send one of theirs to the morgue. That's the way to beat Finney and Smitherman.

 

I don't think advocating violence helps your cause any.

^---- Calm down, bro'.

 

  The streetcar isn't that big of a deal. The majority of the population could care less. The streetcar isn't going to make or break Cincinnati's future.

 

  Smitherman and co. are putting on a sideshow. I don't know what their motivation is; maybe Smitherman just wants attention, or maybe he knows something that we don't know. The real issue is the city budget. If the city had enough cash on hand, we would be riding the streetcar instead of talking about ballot initiatives. 

 

    Peak oil is going to change EVERYTHING. You can't really say that cities with transit are going to do better than cities without transit. For example, what will happen to Portland when petroleum-based international shipping declines? No one knows.

 

   

Give him a break, he has no other life.  I guess Cincinnati will become a ghost town.  P&G will no longer be able to get the best and brightest because they will laugh at our lack of a trolley!!

>The streetcar isn't going to make or break Cincinnati's future.

 

If Buddy Gray had never existed, and the subway was activated as was tentatively planned in the early 80's, OTR would have lost 100+ fewer buildings, the riots would have never happened, and OTR would have taken advantage of the urban revivals that began just as Gray was picked off.  Passage of Metro Moves would have allowed OTR to take advantage of this past decade's real estate boom. 

 

Make no mistake -- a vibrant OTR is a priceless asset in a country where so many feel embarrassed by a suburban upbringing and desperately seek real city living. OTR is the real thing, but all kinds of selfish crap has kept this area from being enjoyed by all but the hardiest individuals.   

 

Make no mistake -- a vibrant OTR is a priceless asset in a country where so many feel embarrassed by a suburban upbringing and desperately seek real city living. OTR is the real thing, but all kinds of selfish crap has kept this area from being enjoyed by all but the hardiest individuals.  

 

Where do you come up with this stuff?  So many feel embarrassed?  Show me the statistics!

 

I agree, a vibrant OTR is priceless, but if it is be revitalized, it can be done without a streetcar.  Go buy yourself a building and rehab it.

 

    True, but we can't change history.

 

    I often wonder what OTR would look like if some of the existing development in West Chester, Florence, etc., had occurred in OTR instead.

 

    In my humble opinion, what is more important than the streetcar is Cincinnati's development policy. Government on all levels has encouraged auto oriented sprawl development in areas away from the core. The City of Cincinnati, meaning the folks headquarted at City Hall on Plum Street, have the opportunity to control some of this, but much of it is out of their control.

 

    Going forward, I would certainly like to see a streetcar but I don't think that Metro Cincinnati is going to change all that much. We can build a streetcar more easily than we can change development policies.

 

   

yawwwwwwn, don't you guys get bored with this conversation?

yawwwwwwn, don't you guys get bored with this conversation?

 

I love it, it's like a Novela!  More please!

"Don't you guys get bored with this conversation?"

 

No. I enjoy it immensely.

 

 

I don't think advocating violence helps your cause any.

 

I wasn't advocating violence, I was paraphrasing a famous line from a movie. You must have been out sick the day they talked about metaphorical language in grade school English class.

 

Besides, there's no need for violence when mockery and ridicule work just fine.

I wonder if this would merit litigation in the supreme court if it did pass?

He lays it out ...

 

http://thephonyconey.blogspot.com/2009/08/eight-months-after-coastnaacp-launched_07.html

The streetcar isn't that big of a deal. The majority of the population could care less. The streetcar isn't going to make or break Cincinnati's future.

 

The streetcar wouldn't break Cincinnati's future. But it could make Cincinnati's future. This is the problem with Cincinnati in general, and with governing by referendum in particular. Group-think tends to be too averse to risk, at the expense of gain. The stadiums are a good example - the real reason voter's approved the stadium tax was to avoid losing the franchises, rather than proactively building a new riverfront.

This is the problem with Cincinnati in general, and with governing by referendum in particular. Group-think tends to be too averse to risk, at the expense of gain.

 

Direct democracy also leads to mob rule, and the ability of a majority to crush the rights and liberties of a minority. There's a reason the framers of the Constitution were vehemently opposed to the idea.

 

"Pure democracy cannot subsist long nor be carried far into the departments of state — it is very subject to caprice and the madness of popular rage."

 

-- John Witherspoon, one of the signers of the Declaration of Independence

 

"That a pure democracy if it were practicable would be the most perfect government. Experience has proved that no position is more false than this. The ancient democracies in which the people themselves deliberated never possessed one good feature of government. Their very character was tyranny; their figure deformity..."

 

-- Alexander Hamilton (Hmm... Isn't there a county somewhere in Ohio named after that guy?)

 

"A pure democracy can admit no cure for the mischiefs of faction. A common passion or interest will be felt by a majority, and there is nothing to check the inducements to sacrifice the weaker party. Hence it is, that democracies have ever been found incompatible with personal security or the rights of property; and have, in general, been as short in their lives as they have been violent in their deaths."

 

-- James Madison, in Federalist #10

 

Mark Miller of COAST claims to be a fan of the Federalist Papers... Maybe he should try actually reading them sometime.

 

  The real reason that voters approved the stadium tax was a combination of fear and confusion. The most cost effective way to win an election is by negative advertising. Stadium proponents said that Cincinnati would wither away and die without an NFL team. Pictures of the Cleveland Browns fans walking away with seats ripped out of the stadium is what got the fans worked up enough to go to the polls. The weather was nasty that day, too - cold, dark, windy, and raining hard.

 

    What the stadium project had going for it was a proponent with money. Mike Brown stood to profit from the stadium, and poured advertising money into it. His friends at WLW certainly helped, as radio and sports go together.

 

    The stadium debate was the most popular political debate in recent Cincinnati history. 80,000 people signed the petition to get the stadium tax on the ballot.

 

    By comparison, the streetcar debate stirs up a little attention, but doesn't stir up the widespread emotion that the stadiums did. I still have people ask me if I've heard of the proposed Cincinnati streetcar as if they are sharing breaking news.

 

    Will the streetcar, if it is built, attract some new development? Probably.

 

    Will it transform OTR into Times Square in Manhattan? No.

 

    Will it increase city revenues so much that the city can finally get out of it's budget woes? No.

 

    Will it result in millions of tourists flocking to OTR? No.

 

    Will thousands of residents give up their cars and move to OTR? No.

 

    The Streetcar, in my opinion, will result in a modest improvement for a modest cost. It's not going to transform Cincinnati into some urban utopia.