October 22, 200915 yr Somebody took a knife to my "No on 9" sign last night. This appeared to be an equal opportunity slashing though, as other signs in the neighborhood also took a beating including "Yes on 7" (library), and "Yes on 52" (CPS). Was that ***redacted*** I saw lurking in the shadows as I went to bed?
October 22, 200915 yr Somebody took a knife to my "No on 9" sign last night. This appeared to be an equal opportunity slashing though, as other signs in the neighborhood also took a beating including "Yes on 7" (library), and "Yes on 52" (CPS). Was that ***redacted*** I saw lurking in the shadows as I went to bed? The COAST Mafia.
October 22, 200915 yr Author Somebody took a knife to my "No on 9" sign last night. This appeared to be an equal opportunity slashing though, as other signs in the neighborhood also took a beating including "Yes on 7" (library), and "Yes on 52" (CPS). Was that ***redacted*** I saw lurking in the shadows as I went to bed? I am not sure the extent of the damage, but if you tape it from the inside it should be okay.
October 22, 200915 yr I put mine up last night and it was already stolen this morning. Luckily I've got a couple more I'll put up more solidly this weekend.
October 22, 200915 yr Mine is mounted from a balcony, so I doubt anyone will steal them, unless they're looking to climb and die.
October 22, 200915 yr They disappear from Eastern Ave/Riverside Drive area almost daily. In their place appears Yes on 9 signs... "It's just fate, as usual, keeping its bargain and screwing us in the fine print..." - John Crichton
October 22, 200915 yr Why don't you all put the "No on 9" signs into the metal frame of a realtor's for-sale sign, then bury a car battery next to/below the sign and run wires into the sign's frame? Make sure the ground is nice and wet around the sign, too. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
October 22, 200915 yr I doubt anyone will steal mine...i mean, it's a pretty quiet residential street...but if they do, i'll just make one for the window.
October 22, 200915 yr Why don't you all put the "No on 9" signs into the metal frame of a realtor's for-sale sign, then bury a car battery next to/below the sign and run wires into the sign's frame? Make sure the ground is nice and wet around the sign, too.
October 22, 200915 yr Why don't you all put the "No on 9" signs into the metal frame of a realtor's for-sale sign, then bury a car battery next to/below the sign and run wires into the sign's frame? Make sure the ground is nice and wet around the sign, too. Fantastic!
October 23, 200915 yr They disappear from Eastern Ave/Riverside Drive area almost daily. In their place appears Yes on 9 signs... I wish sign-stealers could be prosecuted easily. After all, it is a crime. That would be just as easy as fining someone for littering though, unfortunately.
October 23, 200915 yr Speaking of litter, I hope people are as aggressive about removing the signs after election day as they are before.
October 23, 200915 yr Speaking of litter, I hope people are as aggressive about removing the signs after election day as they are before. That's why I was trying to get a jump on things and start removing them early!
October 23, 200915 yr If you cover your sign in vaseline they won't steal it. Mmmmm ... vaseline. Prospect Hill is proudly representin!
October 23, 200915 yr No signs have been stolen on my street. Laketa Cole's billboards are comical. First, it doesn't look like her; second, she appears to be praying the rosary. So far I've seen her billboard in Avondale and in Camp Washington, no telling how many of them are out there.
October 23, 200915 yr Why don't you all put the "No on 9" signs into the metal frame of a realtor's for-sale sign, then bury a car battery next to/below the sign and run wires into the sign's frame? Make sure the ground is nice and wet around the sign, too. That video was clearly fake.
October 23, 200915 yr No signs have been stolen on my street. Laketa Cole's billboards are comical. First, it doesn't look like her; second, she appears to be praying the rosary. So far I've seen her billboard in Avondale and in Camp Washington, no telling how many of them are out there. Haha, sighting on North Bend going from Mt Airy to College Hill.
October 23, 200915 yr The No on 9 sign on the Mt. Adams/Columbia Parkway Pedestrian bridge has been ripped down and replaced by three Yes on 9 signs. @sses.... "It's just fate, as usual, keeping its bargain and screwing us in the fine print..." - John Crichton
October 23, 200915 yr When you see Yes on 9 signs rip them out unless they are on private property. I've done politics and thats just what you do.
October 23, 200915 yr someone should set up a camera and catch them in the act. That would make one hell of a political add! "COAST/ ***redacted***: Lies, Cheats, and STEALS!" THat wouldn't look good for them.
October 23, 200915 yr I guess Libertarians are all for free expression except when somebody else wants to do it.
October 23, 200915 yr I had no idea that the Green Party had come out in favor of Issue 9. Wow...that's really disappointing. As a pretty progressive person that tends to vote democratic on national issues and green on local...this is really upsetting. I may pull my support from that party.
October 23, 200915 yr someone should set up a camera and catch them in the act. That would make one hell of a political add! "COAST/ ***redacted***: Lies, Cheats, and STEALS!" THat wouldn't look good for them. Guys, unless you explicitly find one of these individual members stealing a sign, or doing whatever, then please do not refer to them by name. You can be held liable for your comments, and unless you have definitive proof of this, then I am removing all names from these posts. Thanks.
October 23, 200915 yr someone should set up a camera and catch them in the act. That would make one hell of a political add! "COAST/ ***redacted***: Lies, Cheats, and STEALS!" THat wouldn't look good for them. Guys, unless you explicitly find one of these individual members stealing a sign, or doing whatever, then please do not refer to them by name. You can be held liable for your comments, and unless you have definitive proof of this, then I am removing all names from these posts. Thanks. OFF TOPIC, but... I think this was a little overboard... I know this isn't a democracy regarding moderation. However, I'm pretty sure it was clear that he wasn't being serious and he wasn't claiming that whomever was "***redacted***" had actually stolen any signs.
October 23, 200915 yr I had no idea that the Green Party had come out in favor of Issue 9. Wow...that's really disappointing. As a pretty progressive person that tends to vote democratic on national issues and green on local...this is really upsetting. I may pull my support from that party. Some groups/people endorsing a "Vote no" on issue 9: 1) Former President of the Ohio State Senate Stanley Aronoff 2) Former President of the Ohio State Senate Richard Finan 3) Representative Denise Driehaus 4) Bill Cunningham - Radio Personality 5) Mike McConnell - Radio Personality 6) Cincinnatians for Progress 7) Hamilton County Regional Planning Commission 8 ) City Council Woman and former Cincinnati Mayor Roxanne Qualls 9) The League of Women Voters of the Cincinnati Area 10) St Louis Urban Workshop 11) UC Student Government 12) The Cincinnati Zoo 13) Cincinnati AFL-CIO Labor Council 14) Councilman Chris Bortz 15) Cincinnati Charter Committee 16) Hamilton County Democrats 17) Councilman Jeff Berding 18) The Cincinnati Regional Chamber of Commerce 19) The Cincinnatus Association 20) Councilman Kevin Flynn 21) Councilman Cecil Thomas 22) Mayor Mark Mallory 23) Councilman David Crowley 24) Councilman Greg Harris 25) Councilwoman Leslie Ghiz 26) Hamilton County Commissioner David Pepper 27) Hamilton County Commissioner Todd Portune 28) Former Mayor Arn Bortz 29) Former Mayor Bobbie Sterne 30) Former Vice Mayor Jim Tarbell 31) State senator Eric Kearney 32) Cincinnati Business Courier 33) Cincy PAC 34) Hispanic Chamber of Commerce 35) Mayor's YPKC 36) Over-The-Rhine Chamber of Commerce 37) US Green Building Council - Cincy Chapter 38) Downtown Resident Council 39) Queen City Bike 40) Pendleton Neighborhood Council 41) Cincinnati Planning Commission 42) Cincinnati Enquirer Editorial Board 43) Cincinnati Democratic Party 44) The Sierra Club 45) All Aboard Ohio 46) Agenda 360 47) Southwest Ohio Regional Transit Authority Groups/People Endorsing a vote "YES" for Issue 9 are: 1) COAST 2) NAACP 3) Cincinnati Tea Party 4) Former Congressman and Mayor Tom Luken 5) Mark Miller and Wedemandavote 6) Councilman Charlie Winburn 7) Councilman Lemarque Ward 8 ) Southwest Ohio Green Party 9) Councilwoman Laketa Cole 10) Councilman Chris Monzel Is this an accurate list so far?? Are their any incorrect statements? *EDIT* I did not add those smiley faces
October 23, 200915 yr someone should set up a camera and catch them in the act. That would make one hell of a political add! "COAST/ ***redacted***: Lies, Cheats, and STEALS!" THat wouldn't look good for them. Guys, unless you explicitly find one of these individual members stealing a sign, or doing whatever, then please do not refer to them by name. You can be held liable for your comments, and unless you have definitive proof of this, then I am removing all names from these posts. Thanks. OFF TOPIC, but... I think this was a little overboard... I know this isn't a democracy regarding moderation. However, I'm pretty sure it was clear that he wasn't being serious and he wasn't claiming that whomever was "***redacted***" had actually stolen any signs. While most realized this was a joke, no one wants to take a chance of an accusation of libel.
October 23, 200915 yr Hmmmm.... I'm not sure its completely clear where Laketa Cole stands on Issue 9. COAST tried to say she was for it... but then she said she never said she was. So I'm not sure about her.
October 23, 200915 yr I had no idea that the Green Party had come out in favor of Issue 9. I sent them an email a couple weeks ago saying that I will no longer support the party or look to them for advice when voting. I sent it to the local SW OH Green party, and copied the OH and National Green Parties. It is absolutely absurd that the Green Party of all political groups would endorse a measure that would expand transportation options through poor neighborhoods. Especially those that would reduce greenhouse emissions. Only in Cincinnati...
October 23, 200915 yr Cole did have her name removed from the list of supporters for Cincinnatians for Progress.
October 23, 200915 yr Cole did have her name removed from the list of supporters for Cincinnatians for Progress. Ok thank you. I know Coast "claimed" her on their blog, but I don't know if she's come out for or against the issue. Any idea of how polling is going on the issue?
October 23, 200915 yr Any idea of how polling is going on the issue? Very good question. I havn't heard any numbers, and don't even know that any organized polling effort has taken place. Every day new people or organizations come out against the issue and I start to feel good about it, then I remember where I live and get worried again. I'd love to see some polling data.
October 23, 200915 yr Author Here is what i think the 'yes' group shapes up to be 1) We Demand A Vote Coalition 2) Cincinnati Tea Party 3) Former Congressman and Mayor Tom Luken 4) Council candidate Charlie Winburn 5) Councilman Chris Monzel This is the only thing I have seen from Ward, looks like a NO on 9 to me: http://www.cincinnatibeacon.com/index.php?/contents/comments/interview_with_lamarque_ward_city_council_candidate_2009/
October 23, 200915 yr Is this an accurate list so far?? Are their any incorrect statements? *EDIT* I did not add those smiley faces I hope you don't mind, but I edited your post to fix the smiley faces which happens when you type an 8 next to ). If you put a space between them, it fixes the problem. BTW, I also added All Aboard Ohio to your endorsement list. See the Aug. 10 press release at: http://209.51.133.155/cms/index.php/news_releases/more/2009/08/ "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
October 23, 200915 yr Is that Metro bus real or photoshopped? I thought they weren't allowed to do that. :?
October 23, 200915 yr Considering the leaves are green and that's not the correct font, my guess is photoshop.
October 23, 200915 yr Is this an accurate list so far?? Are their any incorrect statements? *EDIT* I did not add those smiley faces I hope you don't mind, but I edited your post to fix the smiley faces which happens when you type an 8 next to ). If you put a space between them, it fixes the problem. BTW, I also added All Aboard Ohio to your endorsement list. See the Aug. 10 press release at: http://209.51.133.155/cms/index.php/news_releases/more/2009/08/ Thank you! I'm using this no list to help spread the word. It's absurd we even have to have this conversation. Smitherman already has 2 other ballot initiatives in the works
October 24, 200915 yr Question about issue 9. If it passes, rail is not dead if the voters pass any rail initiative that comes through Cincinnati right? What are the worried about if the majority wants rail or don't want rail? If the citizens wants it. It will pass. If they don't it won't pass. Are the leaders wanting to push something on the citizens even though they don't want it? Im all for the rail. However i just don't want the leaders doing anything that the majority doesn't want.
October 24, 200915 yr Question about issue 9. If it passes, rail is not dead if the voters pass any rail initiative that comes through Cincinnati right? What are the worried about if the majority wants rail or don't want rail? If the citizens wants it. It will pass. If they don't it won't pass. Are the leaders wanting to push something on the citizens even though they don't want it? Im all for the rail. However i just don't want the leaders doing anything that the majority doesn't want. This biggest issue is that by delaying our rail plans in order to put it on the next ballot, we are almost guaranteed to miss out on federal funding. This money will go to other cities instead of Cincinnati, and we will be left behind. Another city will benefit at our expense. Another issue is that inter-city rail projects might just bypass Cincinnati altogether in order to avoid the mess of putting it on the ballot. Ohio may just decide to run the 3C corridor from Cleveland to Cincinnati's northern suburbs and not enter city limits. Yet another issue is that it doesn't make sense to vote on just rail projects, while let city leaders are still allowed to make decisions on road project and other transportation. If the city wants to spend $185 on a road, they are allowed to do so without asking the voters first. They could also spend that money on bus transportation. Why should they have to ask the voters in order to spend the exact same amount of money on rail?
October 24, 200915 yr ^ Because it's the voters money, not the council members. Again im for the rail. And want this issue 9 defeated. If i was a resident of the city i would want to vote on major issues like rail sewers or what ever. It would effect their paychecks, property taxes, etc, etc. All of this and yet no new jail. lol
October 24, 200915 yr You want to vote on every issue? Then what's the point of city council? Do you think the majority of city residents will educate themselves on important city issues like the problems with our sewer system?
October 24, 200915 yr They are going to repave some streets (but I don't know anything about it) in the west end. As a central Cincinnati resident, I am offended that they are spending money on asphalt rather than eradicating crime in Over-the-Rhine. I'll vote down that repaving project as it is not an efficient use of my money as a taxpayer to this city. Just a sarcastic example, but really not too far from the truth.
October 24, 200915 yr However i just don't want the leaders doing anything that the majority doesn't want. You mean, like the American Revolution? Like allowing hate groups to have free speech? Like the government takeover and combination of bankrupt northeast railroads into Conrail in the 1970s? Or Chrysler in the early 1980s? Like allowing black kids to go to an all-white school in Little Rock? Like prohibiting euthanasia? After 233 years of a representative republic form of government, why is it suddenly so important for us to vote on everything? Popular rule is often a horrible way to run government. It is slow, cumbersome and inefficient. Much of what needs to get done often cannot get done under popular rule. We seek a representative republic form of government to create and enforce laws as a check and balance against abuses by persons and corporate power (which can take one's freedoms as thoroughly as government can). Government occurs naturally in all societies, whether it's our parents who govern a family, a chief and elders who govern a tribe, capos who govern a mafia clan, or a board of directors who govern a company. We often need them to make unpopular decisions for the better of the whole or for the long term. So could Cincinnatians vote to support funding for a passenger rail improvement and then seek state or federal funding? Sure, but it takes longer, which means the project cost will go up in the one-year delay period. Inflation has ranged from 1-4 percent in the 2000s, so for a $100 million rail project, that means a project cost increase of $1 million to $4 million due to a popular vote. Also, the city has to spend tens of thousands of dollars to place a citywide question on the ballot (anyone recall what the per-precinct cost is?). These are two expensive, selectively punitive strikes against city officials making the hard choice of putting a passenger rail improvement on the ballot. That's especially true when these costs aren't incurred for road and bridge projects. If you're a city official, would you still hold the same interest in passenger rail? "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
October 24, 200915 yr However i just don't want the leaders doing anything that the majority doesn't want. If we only got what the majority wanted, a large portion of the population (disabled, elderly, minorities) wouldn't have very much in their favor.
October 24, 200915 yr I think the majority wants rail. But the minority like Smitherman doesn't. So we COULD get screwed by the minority.
October 24, 200915 yr However i just don't want the leaders doing anything that the majority doesn't want. You mean, like the American Revolution? Like allowing hate groups to have free speech? Like the government takeover and combination of bankrupt northeast railroads into Conrail in the 1970s? Or Chrysler in the early 1980s? Like allowing black kids to go to an all-white school in Little Rock? Like prohibiting euthanasia? After 233 years of a representative republic form of government, why is it suddenly so important for us to vote on everything? Popular rule is often a horrible way to run government. It is slow, cumbersome and inefficient. Much of what needs to get done often cannot get done under popular rule. We seek a representative republic form of government to create and enforce laws as a check and balance against abuses by persons and corporate power (which can take one's freedoms as thoroughly as government can). Government occurs naturally in all societies, whether it's our parents who govern a family, a chief and elders who govern a tribe, capos who govern a mafia clan, or a board of directors who govern a company. We often need them to make unpopular decisions for the better of the whole or for the long term. So could Cincinnatians vote to support funding for a passenger rail improvement and then seek state or federal funding? Sure, but it takes longer, which means the project cost will go up in the one-year delay period. Inflation has ranged from 1-4 percent in the 2000s, so for a $100 million rail project, that means a project cost increase of $1 million to $4 million due to a popular vote. Also, the city has to spend tens of thousands of dollars to place a citywide question on the ballot (anyone recall what the per-precinct cost is?). These are two expensive, selectively punitive strikes against city officials making the hard choice of putting a passenger rail improvement on the ballot. That's especially true when these costs aren't incurred for road and bridge projects. If you're a city official, would you still hold the same interest in passenger rail? Well said. It's naive to expect most of them to have the time, energy, resources and experience to thorougly examine the details and ramifications of each issue that is proposed on the ballot. Many voters vote strictly down party lines. I am very afraid of letting voters take crucial decisions out of the hands of the people elected to make them - and who generally are better informed/educated about major policy issues and their ramifications, than the public. We elect them to take care of it for us because we trust we've elected the right person for the job. If not, we vote them out next election. In the end,if this passes, it comes down to special interests and who markets their side better, not whats best for the city. This would make us literally the only large city in the US to have a public vote on any form of passenger rail. They sound good in theory, but referendums and ballot initiatives are never fully thought out and only offer a "take it or leave it" proposition. That's not realistic and it always makes for bad law. They are expensive, hard to undue, and time consuming. California should be a prime example of why they don't work For Issue 9, lets say the its passes. All the stimulus and federal funds available for infrastructure and job creation projects (passenger rail, etc) are immediately at risk. Any public vote will delay these projects and make the city possibly ineligible for literally millions of dollars in federal funding. We will get skipped over in favor of other cities. This issue states that it would apply to all types of funding - Federal, state, and private. So if a wealthy person wants to give the city a lot of dough for passenger rail, we'd wait several months or spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to conduct an election to vote on whether or not to accept the donation. This whole initiative is poorly poorly worded. It's an anti-passenger rail initiative, not just streetcar, and it is terribly written. That's why groups and people from all sides of the political spectrum are against it.
October 24, 200915 yr >f the citizens wants it. It will pass. If they don't it won't pass. All things equal, this would be fair enough. But the COAST anti-rail people have lied and continue to lie at every opportunity. If someone can identify a single lie propagated by the streetcar people, let's hear it. Issue 9 was and is all about the anti-streetcar boys creating as much confusion as possible. They're sticking it to suckers while the suckers think they're being flattered and saved from some dark conspiracy. Any anti-rail campaign has a huge advantage in a city with no rail. A lot of sensible people think we don't have rail for some great logical reason. Also, they believe the first thing or loudest voice they hear, and too often that's been the COAST guys. The COAST boys had a huge head start on this campaign because they conjured it up from thin air. They had the architecture in place to create this problem and make their lies heard first while no defense existed on the pro-rail side. It took several months for an effort to take form and gain momentum on the pro-rail side. Is that an equal situation? Obviously not. And that's the problem with government by referendum -- some shadowy group can get a running start with some nutty issue, putting reason on the defensive. Democracies are far, far from perfect. You're still in Kindergarten if you think votes on specific issues exist in a perfect vacuum. They're affected by all kinds of subliminal and instinctual factors which have almost or completely nothing to do with the matter at hand. The Metro Moves vote went down primarily because of Mike Brown, the selfish, unappreciative owner of the Cincinnati Bengals. For the 18 or so years since he took over the team from his father he's run one of the worst five professional sports franchises in the four big professional sports. And his arrogance and social awkwardness is the primary reason why we don't have streetcars and light rail in this city right now.
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