October 29, 200915 yr Maybe the reason its not a problem is because of all the extra police. Crime rates were lower 10 years when there were less police. Correlation does not equal causation. Crime rates are cyclical and do not always (if ever) respond to police on patrol... in fact crime rates respond better (get lower) when there are more eyes on the street. So... maybe... but not likely.
October 29, 200915 yr ^The big problem is that we are still losing people to the surrounding counties (particularly now that people move directly to the suburbs when they move into the area). We have a symbiotic relationship with the suburbs, no matter how much neither city nor suburb may like it: http://www.communityresearchpartners.org/uploads/DataBytes/DataByte4_OhioPopulationMigrationPatterns.pdf
October 29, 200915 yr >Maybe the reason its not a problem is because of all the extra police. No, it's not a problem because anyone who's not involved in drugs or in a bad domestic situation has very little chance of being the victim of a violent crime. I think a lot of people are very easily frightened -- shaken to the core -- by even the smallest incidents, like having their car broken into, whereas I'm just mad the stuff's gone and that I'm going to be sitting around for a few hours at Mel's Auto Glass the next day. I will say this -- I remember 10 years ago when Over-the-Rhine was quite dangerous that every passing Metro bus was like police officer coming by. The streetcars, with more people waiting at each stop than currently ride the bus, will mean there is a constant sympathetic presence on the street, and now that everyone's got cell phones, people can call the police immediately in the case of criminal activity. Another advantage of the streetcar: the problem with subway stations is that you don't get these free eyes on the street AND you have to pay a security guard to hang out in each station.
October 29, 200915 yr >Maybe the reason its not a problem is because of all the extra police. No, it's not a problem because anyone who's not involved in drugs or in a bad domestic situation has very little chance of being the victim of a violent crime. I think a lot of people are very easily frightened -- shaken to the core -- by even the smallest incidents, like having their car broken into, whereas I'm just mad the stuff's gone and that I'm going to be sitting around for a few hours at Mel's Auto Glass the next day. I will say this -- I remember 10 years ago when Over-the-Rhine was quite dangerous that every passing Metro bus was like police officer coming by. The streetcars, with more people waiting at each stop than currently ride the bus, will mean there is a constant sympathetic presence on the street, and now that everyone's got cell phones, people can call the police immediately in the case of criminal activity. Another advantage of the streetcar: the problem with subway stations is that you don't get these free eyes on the street AND you have to pay a security guard to hang out in each station. that is if they are willing to get involved. Lots of people don't or have the mentality that, I not/don't have time to call, I'm sure someone else will. When issues arise on the train in Cleveland, I'll say something and many times people will say something like: I'm glad you said something I wanted to say something but I'm glad you did I wouldn't say anything, I'm afraid something will happen. AFTER THE INCIDENT AT THE END OF THE LINE. I don't think more eyes on the street equals better safety.
October 29, 200915 yr I don't think more eyes on the street equals better safety. It does I think it can be a deterrent, but I don't think it automatically means a location is safer.
October 29, 200915 yr As I ride down Vine in OTR I see a lot of eyes. I wouldn't expect more than a few of them to do me any good in a time of crisis.
October 29, 200915 yr Big news coming tomorrow. Did Smitherman finally come out against Issue 9? I'm about to hear Smitherman come present to a class I'm in at UC in 30 minutes. There's always Q&A time, and I'll have a question or two about his issue 9 stance..
October 29, 200915 yr Author According to Twitter, Bill Seitz came out for No on 9 on Cunningham today, can anyone confirm? mark_vaughn @CincyStreetcar & @GoCOAST - Ohio Senator Bill Seitz ® & Bill Cunningham both say vote NO ON 9 on today's WLW Bill Cunningham show! #NOon9
October 29, 200915 yr If nothing else, this whole Issue 9 thing has made for some entertaining bedfellows. COAST fellates the NAACP and the Greens, while yours truly finds himself agreeing with Cunningham for the first time in history. Strange times.
October 29, 200915 yr Big news coming tomorrow. Did Smitherman finally come out against Issue 9? I'm about to hear Smitherman come present to a class I'm in at UC in 30 minutes. There's always Q&A time, and I'll have a question or two about his issue 9 stance.. here is his reponse: "what is wrong with voting? we just want the people of this great city to have a chance to vote...especially when it comes to boondoggles like a choo choo to nowhere when , in tough times like this, we need more police on the street, and help for our neighborhoods..blah blah blah..."
October 29, 200915 yr Author Big news coming tomorrow. Did Smitherman finally come out against Issue 9? I'm about to hear Smitherman come present to a class I'm in at UC in 30 minutes. There's always Q&A time, and I'll have a question or two about his issue 9 stance.. here is his reponse: "what is wrong with voting? we just want the people of this great city to have a chance to vote...especially when it comes to boondoggles like a choo choo to nowhere when , in tough times like this, we need more police on the street, and help for our neighborhoods..blah blah blah..." Ask him if he knows the difference between an operating and capital budget
October 29, 200915 yr Author Classic Sweeney http://caast-usa.blogspot.com/2009/10/issue-9-would-maroon-cincinnati.html
October 29, 200915 yr According to Twitter, Bill Seitz came out for No on 9 on Cunningham today, can anyone confirm? You'll be able to hear it on his Podcast once it's released. The interview is about an hour or so in. Both were against a Streetcar in Cincinnati, but neither thought Issue 9 was the way to stop it. "It's just fate, as usual, keeping its bargain and screwing us in the fine print..." - John Crichton
October 29, 200915 yr and you'll get a "common man" response. To wit, "Oh these lawyers and their fancy wording...capital budgets..operating budgets.....our city needs help and they want to engage in wordsmithing! Money is fungible. Let's put the moeny where it will do the most good. In our neighborhoods, in my pocket (oh wait...)"
October 29, 200915 yr An excellent run-down of all of the issues during this election: Your choice, Your vote Be informed, be educated, vote for what you believe in.
October 29, 200915 yr Author The only man trying to fill Borgman's shoes http://www.urbancincy.com/2009/10/dont-be-tricked-vote-no-on-issue-9.html
October 29, 200915 yr ^ I don't think this is so good for us. agreed. That is an absolutely horrible (and biased) synopsis.
October 29, 200915 yr Both sides complain about the bias in the Enquirer, and neither side will ever be entirely correct. It's based on perceptions. Out of all the sites that present the issues at hand, it has the least bias or the least outward bias that I can find. If there is a site that does better for the issues, please let me know :)
October 29, 200915 yr ^Where at? I'm not going to dig through their site to find their stances on all of the issues. That said, there really is no other reliable source to find information on all of the issues. You can't rely on the blogs because all have some inherent bias that is readily visible upon entry; you can't rely on talk radio because it is all opinion. You only have the Enquirer, and as it is the widest-reaching publication in the city, it better damn well be accurate. If not, let them know.
October 29, 200915 yr Here as well -- http://www.hamilton-co.org/BOE/inputdata/candidateissues/gen09caniss.pdf Absent of that, there isn't much else. That said, it's veered off topic.
October 29, 200915 yr Both sides complain about the bias in the Enquirer, and neither side will ever be entirely correct. It's based on perceptions. Out of all the sites that present the issues at hand, it has the least bias or the least outward bias that I can find. If there is a site that does better for the issues, please let me know :) do you want me to parse it out? For example, this section looks like it was written by COAST: HOW THINGS ARE NOW: Cincinnati city officials can move forward on any rail plan whenever they choose ARGUMENT FOR: Giving voters a say on the streetcar and other rail plans can serve as a check on projects lacking public support I think the League of Women Voters does a much better job. Just cite as Opponents Say/Proponents Say... http://www.smartvoter.org/2009/11/03/oh/hm/issue/9/
October 29, 200915 yr Given that their argument for issue 9 is taken directly from COAST, you are correct Caseyc; no need for the snip. Did you read the argument against issue 9? "The required public votes would be costly and time-consuming, and could exclude Cincinnati from state and national rail plans." That's a stance that's been reiterated by the city. Would you call that unfair bias too? Or is it the Enquirer is actually being actually fair and balanced with their statements? They covered both COAST and the city's stance on this.
October 29, 200915 yr I think if you were to weigh the bias in the Pro v. Con, it tips towards the Pros. The Cons uses qualifying words such as "could." In the "how things are now" segment," (which should be neutral) saying officials can simply move forward now with any rail plan they please is a bit of an overstatement for such a sound bite. That's all.
October 29, 200915 yr Big news coming tomorrow. Did Smitherman finally come out against Issue 9? I'm about to hear Smitherman come present to a class I'm in at UC in 30 minutes. There's always Q&A time, and I'll have a question or two about his issue 9 stance.. here is his reponse: "what is wrong with voting? we just want the people of this great city to have a chance to vote...especially when it comes to boondoggles like a choo choo to nowhere when , in tough times like this, we need more police on the street, and help for our neighborhoods..blah blah blah..." Smitherman made points along the lines of what he usually says, he repeated that he wants a vote on this (and that he's already satisfied, even if 9 fails, because all he wants is a vote). He went on to say the NAACP and himself support rail, but not the streetcar. He talked about gentrification in OTR pretty emotionally, and the huge unemployment rate amongst blacks in Cincinnati. He continued by discussing the huge amount of SORTA cuts that SORTA recently aproved and is awaiting until after the election for a vote by city council; he cited the $3.5 million operating deficit of the streetcar in comparison to the $6-9 million dollar cut in Cincinnati's contribution to metro for next year. His counterpoint to the "two pots" argument was legitimate, he said capital budget is seperate, but is still derived from income and property tax. To finish, he really didn't say anything new. But a side point I'd like to make is that I wish people against issue 9 would stop using the "two pots" argument so much. People understand the difference, but whatever pot it is - it's still a big pot of taxpayer dollars that could be spent on any other number of projects.
October 29, 200915 yr Correct. Yeah, capital and operating budgets are different, but they come out of my pocket in the end and if I don't want to see project A completed, then I could care less if the budgets are separate. That capital money can be spent elsewhere, for projects that may be more financially and/or politically feasible. Smitherman is also correct in that SORTA is facing deep cuts, and that Cincinnati is cutting money to Metro next year. Metro will also be hurting even more so if the schools cut their deal and go entirely with Peterman's busses, and we have to take that into consideration when thinking of the projected deficit of a streetcar since fares can never cover the cost of the route.
October 29, 200915 yr As I ride down Vine in OTR I see a lot of eyes. I wouldn't expect more than a few of them to do me any good in a time of crisis. And why is that Dan?
October 30, 200915 yr About a year ago I wiped out on my scooter coming down the hill on vine street around the old curve cafe. I fractured my scaphoid bone in my wrist, got some other cuts and bruises, and generally was shaken up. Immediately 4 of the exact folks you'd probably guess wouldn't have cared ran over to help get my scooter on the sidewalk, call 911, and make sure I was OK. One of them sat with me till the medics arrived. The people that I meet on the sidewalk on vine street when I am WALKING on the sidewalk are almost always cordial, if not downright polite and friendly. "Good evening", "How you doin'", and "Hello, Gentleman" are phrases that I hear. The people at the Kroger on vine street, both the workers and the guys hanging out, are some of the most friendly people I've ever met that weren't my friends. It astonishes me the number of people I know who are literally freaked out that I go in the place. Please, don't argue needlessly with brain dead common sense like more people makes an area feel, and be, safer, because people that are up to no good generally like to be up to no good in relative seclusion. If that's not obvious to you, then go to both types of areas, get out of your car in each, and ask yourself how you feel. Then ask yourself how you'd feel if you were trying to unload some crack or mug someone on the street. If the obvious answer doesn't come immediately to mind then, ask yourself what your true motives are. Get out of your car or off of your bike and walk, if you want to see into someones eyes. Try saying "hello" and see what happens.
October 30, 200915 yr My cousin -- a Fort Thomas native who now lives in semi-rural Campbell County (hardly an urban pioneer or hipster type) -- is a meter reader for Duke Energy, and his territories include Price Hill, Over-the-Rhine, and Indian Hill. In his experience, the people in OTR are about a million times more helpful and friendly than those in Indian Hill.
October 30, 200915 yr You guys are right, the random acts of violence are more of a problem in Indian Hill than OTR.
October 30, 200915 yr For Immediate Release Contact: Coby Williams October 29, 2009 (513) 328-0568 [email protected] OEC urges NO vote on Issue 9 A vote for Issue 9 is a vote to derail Cincinnati’s link with Dayton, Columbus, Cleveland, and the nation on 3C train (Columbus, OH)—The Ohio Environmental Council today announced its opposition to Cincinnati Issue 9. The OEC believes Issue 9 has the potential to derail a station stop in Cincinnati along the proposed 3C corridor, linking Cincinnati with daily train service to Dayton, Columbus, and Cleveland. As worded, Issue 9 would prohibit the city from spending any monies for right-of-way acquisition or construction of improvements for passenger rail transportation within the city limits without first securing approval of the voters. Issue 9 is promoted as a referendum on a local streetcar proposal, but its wording is so broad that it could be applied to any passenger rail project involving Cincinnati, including the 3C train proposal. Cincinnati voters will vote Tuesday on Issue 9. ‘‘Issue 9 will put a big red stop signal at the city limits of Cincinnati along the 3C rail corridor. It could totally derail the 3C train from reaching Cincinnati and prevent it from ever becoming anything more than a 2C train. If that happens, Cincinnati will miss out on the commerce, convenience, and connection that arrives with daily passenger rail service,” said Coby Williams, Legislative and Public Affairs Associate for the OEC and a native of Cincinnati. Earlier this month, the Ohio Department of Transportation submitted an application for $564 million in federal stimulus funds for the Ohio 3C “Quick Start” Passenger Rail Plan. If approved by federal transportation agencies, Ohio plans to make track improvements and acquire train cars and engines to restore daily passenger service along the 3C corridor. According to Ohio transportation officials, the 3C corridor is one of the most populous corridors in the country not served by passenger trains; more than 6 million people live along the 3C corridor. An Amtrak study released in September verified there is pent up demand for passenger service in Ohio, projecting nearly half a million riders a year along the 3C corridor. The OEC expects that individual cities will be asked to contribute to the 3C corridor, helping acquire right of way and helping construct or improve new or existing stations. Under Issue 9’s wording, Cincinnati would be prohibited from making such contributions, unless voters expressly approved them. This could delay or even derail a station stop in Cincinnati. State officials plan start-up, 79-MPH service along the 3C corridor as a prelude to 115 MPH high-speed train service. The 3C corridor is part of the federally designated, high-speed Chicago Hub Network, connecting Cincinnati with Dayton, Columbus, and Cleveland and with other Midwest cities. Nearby connections are envisioned to include Indianapolis, Louisville, Toledo, Pittsburgh, Buffalo, and Detroit. “The ultimate plan for the 3C corridor is for 115-MPH trains whisking travelers in and out of Cincinnati to points north, south, east, and west. The people of Cincinnati have a clear choice: Do they want to get on board the move to safe, comfortable, convenient train travel to other parts of the state and beyond, or do they want to slap a ‘go slow’ order on our city. We hope Cincinnatians will cast a vote for progress and vote no on Issue 9,” said Williams. -end- The mission of the Ohio Environmental Council (OEC) is to secure healthy air, land, and water for all who call Ohio home. The OEC is Ohio’s leading advocate for fresh air, clean water, and sustainable land use. The OEC has a 40-year history of innovation, pragmatism, and success. Using legislative initiatives, legal action, scientific principles, and statewide partnerships, the OEC secures a healthier environment for Ohio’s families and communities. For more information, visit www.theOEC.org.
October 30, 200915 yr Author Judge Painter- Issue 9 Applies to Roads and Rail http://cincystreetcar.wordpress.com/2009/10/30/judge-painter-issue-9-applies-to-roads-and-rail/
October 30, 200915 yr The problem with libertarian extremists like COAST is that the whole intent is to paralyze government, because they think government shouldn't even exist. The vague language of the measure is very deliberate on their part, and to them is a feature, not a bug.
October 30, 200915 yr Issue 9 could cause create legal mess Despite claims, Issue 9 is not a racial issue Don't miss the train, vote against Issue 9
October 30, 200915 yr ^I'm thinking it's this: African American Chamber & AFL-CIO oppose Issue 9 "It's just fate, as usual, keeping its bargain and screwing us in the fine print..." - John Crichton
October 30, 200915 yr The triptych of criticism of Issue 9 in The Enquirer today is an awesome work of art. Each article makes very important points for voters to consider next Tuesday. Thank you Brad Thomas, Judge Painter, Don Mooney and John Schneider for your important and thoughtful input on this issue. The article by Mark Miller on the same page continues to make the claim that, "The only way for citizens to have their voices heard on the streetcar is to vote "yes" on Issue 9" (emphasis mine). Voters having the opportunity to choose a mayor and full City Council FOUR DAYS FROM NOW betrays this assertion. Furthermore, it's ridiculous and hypocritical for those working so hard to oppose rail to, at the same time, complain about the under-utilization of the riverfront transit center!
October 30, 200915 yr I can't even begin to express my disappointment that I just saw Tyrone Yates speaking in favor of Issue 9. I suppose i shouldn't be surprised, with his connection to the NAACP...but this does disappoint me. He's term limited so i can't vote against him...but if he runs for anything else he won't get my vote.
October 30, 200915 yr Furthermore, it's ridiculous and hypocritical for those working so hard to oppose rail to, at the same time, complain about the under-utilization of the riverfront transit center! VERY good point. But then again, what about this measure isn't ridiculous?
October 30, 200915 yr ^ Agreed. That's what was about to cause a vein to burst in my head during the Issue 9 debate at DAAP a couple weeks ago. Stephan Louis complained about RTC being an under-utilized "boondoggle", yet he led the effort to kill the possibility of it being utilized for transit in 2002, and is trying to kill any hope of utilizing it for transit anytime in the future. Stephan Louis complained about the Central Parkway Subway being an under-utilized "boondoggle", yet he led the effort to kill the possibility of it being utilized for transit in 2002, and is trying to kill any hope of utilizing it for transit anytime in the future. Stephan Louis complained about Union Terminal being an under-utilized "boondoggle", yet he led the effort to kill the possibility of it being utilized for commuter rail in 2002, and is trying to kill any hope of utilizing it for rail service anytime in the future. The cognitive dissonance of these people never ceases to astound me.
October 30, 200915 yr http://209.51.133.155/cms/index.php/news_releases/more/come_hear_odot_director_molitoris_speak_nov_14_at_all_aboard_ohios_fall_mee/ Come hear ODOT Director Molitoris speak Nov. 14 at All Aboard Ohio's Fall Meeting FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE — October 30, 2009 Contact: Ken Prendergast All Aboard Ohio Executive Director (216) 288-4883 [email protected] Please join All Aboard Ohio at its Fall Meeting as we welcome keynote speaker Ohio Department of Transportation Director Jolene Molitoris! Director Molitoris will discuss efforts in creating a more multi-modal transportation system that offers ever-greater travel choices and economic opportunities for Ohioans. Passenger rail development along populous travel corridors in Ohio, including the 3C “Quick Start” project linking Cincinnati, Dayton, Columbus and Cleveland, is an important component of ODOT’s mission to provide Ohioans with greater transportation choices. All Aboard Ohio’s Fall Meeting will be Saturday Nov. 14th at the elegant Dayton Racquet Club, 29th floor of the Kettering Tower, 40 North Main Street (at West 2nd), in downtown Dayton. A full breakfast buffet will be offered from 9:30 to 10 a.m. The meeting will be called to order at 10 a.m. In addition to Director Molitoris, attendees will hear morning presentations by the Dayton Foundation and the U.S. Air Force Museum which welcome improved transportation access with the implementation of passenger rail service linking the Dayton area with the “3C’s” – Cincinnati, Columbus and Cleveland. After a delicious lunch buffet (Cranberry-Orange Glazed Chicken, Grilled Salmon with Citrus Butter, plus Tortellini with Marinara Sauce), All Aboard Ohio will hold a business meeting which non-members are welcome to attend. Their Fall Meeting registration includes a one-year membership in All Aboard Ohio. Agenda items include consideration of a proposed amendment to the association’s bylaws, reports by the president and executive director, Cincinnati Streetcar, Cincinnati Union Terminal access, and other matters to come before the association. Registration is just $35 per person for All Aboard Ohio members and $45 for non-members (registration includes a one-year introductory membership to All Aboard Ohio). Please make checks payable to “All Aboard Ohio” and mail to 12029 Clifton Blvd., Suite 505, Cleveland, OH 44107-2189. To register, please see the clip-out form, map and more information at… http://members.cox.net/ohiohsr/Fall-2009_mtg_registration.pdf or visit www.allaboardohio.org The Fall issue of the Ohio Passenger Rail News was mailed Oct. 25 which will also have the meeting and registration information. You may also register by Nov. 11 by RSVP’ing to All Aboard Ohio Executive Director Ken Prendergast at (216) 288-4883 and then pay at the door. END "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
October 30, 200915 yr Good lord. Today's press announcement at city hall was a joke. I hope the film crew got the spat.
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