November 3, 200915 yr From the Enquirer -- "Issue 9 – NO Passenger rail Charter amendment: Way back on Aug. 9, we called for the defeat of this “deceptive, divisive and dangerous” measure, and the way this campaign has developed only proves our point. The language of the amendment is convoluted, muddy and deceptive. The push for it has been divisive along racial and class lines. And it is part of a faux-populist trend that is dangerous to representative democracy. Inspired, so to speak, by opposition to Cincinnati’s proposed downtown streetcar project, Issue 9 would alter the city’s Charter to require a public vote on any city spending toward a passenger rail project. This would gum up the works on any such project, and perhaps more, costing us federal funding and putting the city further behind on 21st century mass transit. It is an improper use of the initiative system, and it would unduly tie the hands of officials we elect to represent us. The city’s voters should hand this wretched measure a resounding defeat."
November 3, 200915 yr I'll be out this evening volunteering at a poll. If you have some free time today... Go here to sign up: http://www.cincinnatiansforprogress.com/Home.asp "It's just fate, as usual, keeping its bargain and screwing us in the fine print..." - John Crichton
November 3, 200915 yr Someone from the NAACP was at my polling place in Pleasant Ridge urging people to vote yes on 8 & 9. Hopefully it's just my own pessimism that comes from living in Cincinnati for the past decade, but I have a really bad feeling about this vote today...
November 3, 200915 yr Someone from the NAACP was at my polling place in Pleasant Ridge urging people to vote yes on 8 & 9. Hopefully it's just my own pessimism that comes from living in Cincinnati for the past decade, but I have a really bad feeling about this vote today... Since you posted this, I'm curious to know, what was your response?
November 3, 200915 yr OK, I just voted in OTR, and Quinlivan had a person there handing out a sample Democrat ballot with QUINLIVAN sticker on it. She has the name recognition and the people at the polls to make it onto Council first time I think. Also had a young couple with mod glasses handing out No On Nine literature. Turnout was solid, but nothing like the long lines last fall. I knew half the people in line, and I'd say they all support streetcars.
November 3, 200915 yr ^ Nothing much. I just handed her literature back to her (though I should have thrown it in the trash) and told her I'd be voting no on both. She accepted that and was friendly about the whole thing. Sorry, no drama!
November 3, 200915 yr I live in Norwood so no Issue 9 for me. Wishing all the city dwellers luck in defeating it.
November 3, 200915 yr Chin up. Even if this thing passes, it will only be a matter of time before before the city comes to its senses and repeals it, or otherwise creates an effective work-around via other means. Issue 9 so wrong-headed and odious, such a hinderance to effective government, and such an embarrassment to the city that it will eventually go the way of Finney's anti-gay rights measure. From a purely demographic point of view, COAST's core followers are a dying breed: old, white, and suburban. They won't be around forever, and gas won't be cheap forever. Today's young urban bloggers who are speaking out most passionately against Issue 9 are tomorrow's city council members, mayors, urban planners, and civic leaders. There's not a damn thing in the world Miller, Smitherman, or Finney can do about that, and they know it. This may not be their last stand, but it's the fourth quarter and the clock is ticking. It may not happen as quickly as we'd like, but I'm absolutely confident that Cincinnati will one day have rail transit. If Issue 9 fails, we can pat ourselves on the back and then get to work building a better city. If it passes, we lick our wounds and then get to work building a better city.
November 3, 200915 yr Current Enquirer Headline: Some early voters nix casinos, transit http://cincinnati.com/blogs/politics/2009/11/03/some-early-voters-nix-casinos-transit/ "It's just fate, as usual, keeping its bargain and screwing us in the fine print..." - John Crichton
November 3, 200915 yr Nice to see the hard-hitting journalism we've come to expect from the Enquirer. Some voters also think the Tooth Fairy is real, but that doesn't mean they're a majority.
November 3, 200915 yr wow. That was quite the comprehensive exit poll....."Early Voters Nix Transit..." Right.
November 3, 200915 yr More like a couple of old people from Madeira. Unfortunately, this is probably the type of demographic that will be voting in the largest numbers today...
November 3, 200915 yr Good luck today Nervous....If Wenstrup is elected, rail is as good as dead here for quite some time. If issue 9 passes, nothing will come to fruition until gas prices go up again and people demand some rail. If Wenstrup is elected and issue 9 passes, Cincinnati will be left out of nearly everything rail-wise including the midwest hub. Not to mention COAST will effectively influence the city with Wenstrup. Cmon Cincy!
November 3, 200915 yr Does anybody seriously think Wenstrup has a shot at winning? The conventional wisdom seems to be that Mallory is a shoo-in.
November 3, 200915 yr Does anybody seriously think Wenstrup has a shot at winning? The conventional wisdom seems to be that Mallory is a shoo-in. Agreed. The mayoral race is the one thing I'm not worried about at all.
November 3, 200915 yr Does anybody seriously think Wenstrup has a shot at winning? The conventional wisdom seems to be that Mallory is a shoo-in. Agreed. The mayoral race is the one thing I'm not worried about at all. You're probably right. But I will be a lot more relieved when I see it officially. After reading all the groups and people opposed to issue 9, I'm feeling pretty good about it as well. But who knows what COAST and the NAACP will stoop to. If they have no qualms about deceiving people to get signatures for the initiative and no qualms in regards to distorting/lying about the facts, who knows what else they will try to do.
November 3, 200915 yr I wish I knew how Issue 9 was going to turn out. I am very, very close to saying that it doesn't have a chance in hell of failing. And I've been reserving my pessimism (or realism) through the entire process, but it's election day so it's time to get real. But it's sooo convoluted. Here's to hoping the hair-trigger "No" voters just vote that way, and in the process give Cincinnati some transit!
November 3, 200915 yr Lies are cheap and that's why there's a chance of this COAST thing passing despite having been outspent about 80:1 and the opposition winning the endorsement of basically everyone and everything. Instead of paying for ads, the COAST payroll paid Mark Miller to work full-time on this campaign, which meant to lie full-time. What does your dad do for a living? Mark Miller lies for a living. Chris Smitherman lies for a living. Imagine being a kid growing up in a house like that, and that being your reality.
November 3, 200915 yr The subway was voted on and approved. The conversion of the subway right-of-way to freeways took place without a vote.
November 3, 200915 yr Does anyone know if the subway was voted on way back when? I believe the bonds ($6 million) used to pay for its construction were voted on and approved by voters in 1916.
November 3, 200915 yr based on hearing a lot of people at work referring to Issue 9 as voting on the streetcar, I'm a little worried that it may pass. I've had to correct a few people that they might even have to vote on the zoo train and a railroad crossing so maybe I swayed them. Fortunately a lot of my coworkers live in the 'burbs.
November 3, 200915 yr If it passes the streetcar and other rail projects can still be voted on. Yes, but then its a half a million dollar election, time passes while inflation hits, and the delay will probably cost us federal funding. Eventually projects will just bypass Cincinnati to avoid these troubles. In theory the public vote sounds nice, but in actual practice its disastrous, and we would literally be the ONLY city in the country to have this on our charter
November 3, 200915 yr ^ That's the problem with these ballot measures, and that's that groups like COAST are counting on. What sounds good as a pithy catchphrase or what sounds most appealing on a knee-jerk level is not always the best policy. The opposition faces an uphill battle in trying to convince voters that what may sound good at first glance will ultimately be a disaster. If this thing passes, I think I'll start working on a referendum to the charter that mandates the City of Cincinnati cut a million-dollar check to every city resident each year on December 25th. Sounds great, right? What's not to like about every city resident being a millionaire?
November 3, 200915 yr >I've had to correct a few people I haven't met anyone outside this circle who understands the ballot language or what's at stake.
November 3, 200915 yr >I've had to correct a few people I haven't met anyone outside this circle who understands the ballot language or what's at stake. i blame the de-emphasis on civics and English and the inflated value of science and math for this sort of problem. Americans are losing their ability to think intelligently about the issues or to view them within a broader context.
November 3, 200915 yr ^ That's the problem with these ballot measures, and that's that groups like COAST are counting on. What sounds good as a pithy catchphrase or what sounds most appealing on a knee-jerk level is not always the best policy. The opposition faces an uphill battle in trying to convince voters that what may sound good at first glance will ultimately be a disaster. If this thing passes, I think I'll start working on a referendum to the charter that mandates the City of Cincinnati cut a million-dollar check to every city resident each year on December 25th. Sounds great, right? What's not to like about every city resident being a millionaire? lol You should start with being an Ohio resident first. We need your proposition expanded to all in Ohio.
November 3, 200915 yr >I've had to correct a few people I haven't met anyone outside this circle who understands the ballot language or what's at stake. Crap... I wish there was a website that tallied up to the minute votes like an ESPN Gametracker score.
November 3, 200915 yr >I've had to correct a few people I haven't met anyone outside this circle who understands the ballot language or what's at stake. i blame the de-emphasis on civics and English and the inflated value of science and math for this sort of problem. Americans are losing their ability to think intelligently about the issues or to view them within a broader context. Agreed, although I'd blame the de-emphasis on critical thinking skills in general, in favor of standardized tests and rote memorization. Our entire education philosophy is set up to produce non-thinking drones who work on farms or in factories, rather than people who can critically engage and shape the world. But we're getting off-topic...
November 3, 200915 yr People aren't stupid, they'll read the amendment text (probably for the first time) before they fill in the box. We'll get what the people want here. That said, I voted in Corryville at about 10:30 this morning and was only the 4th person to vote there. At least we know my "no on 9 vote" carries a lot of weight...
November 3, 200915 yr The subway was voted on and approved. The conversion of the subway right-of-way to freeways took place without a vote. Actually, I think the first portion of I-75 (Millcreek) expressway from where 74 is now to Paddock Road was built with bond money that was voted on. This was the portion that used most of the subway R/W and M-E canal R/W....and before the interstate act.
November 3, 200915 yr If this thing passes, I think I'll start working on a referendum to the charter that mandates the City of Cincinnati cut a million-dollar check to every city resident each year on December 25th. Sounds great, right? What's not to like about every city resident being a millionaire? How about doing that in the city of Mason instead? That said, I voted in Corryville at about 10:30 this morning and was only the 4th person to vote there. At least we know my "no on 9 vote" carries a lot of weight... I was number 76 in my precinct at the Main Library, and I voted around and I voted around 12:45. I ran into John Schneider outside of the library on my way to work this morning.
November 3, 200915 yr People aren't stupid, they'll read the amendment text (probably for the first time) before they fill in the box. We'll get what the people want here. Lets be honest. There are a lot of stupid people out there. 24% of Americans can't name the country America fought in the Revolutionary War. More than 2/3 of Americans don't know what Roe vs Wade is. Almost 2/3 don't know what the FDA does. Nearly half of Americans don't know that states have two senators. More than half can't name their senators. 18% think the sun revolves around the earth. A third of Republicans believe Obama is not a citizen A third of Democrats believe Bush had prior knowledge about 9/11 Half of Americans believe Christianity is older than Judaism What scares me is people can easily be mislead by the lies and half truths out there promoted by COAST and Smitherman. What it essentially comes down to is who marketed better. That's scary
November 3, 200915 yr That came out too harsh and pompous I apologize. I'm anxiously awaiting the results. It sickens me that Smitherman could decide the city's future
November 3, 200915 yr Does anyone have a list of council candidates that are pro-actively for the streetcar? I've seen a list go around but when I looked at the webpages for those people, a lot didn't list that they were for the streetcar so I have a hard time believing it. Some I know for sure are such as Bortz, Tony Fisher, Laure Quinlivan, but others I'm not quite so sure about.
November 3, 200915 yr Ghiz was for it before she was against it. She's also no on 9...i think most of the candidates are against Issue 9 regardless of their feelings towards the Streetcar.
November 3, 200915 yr >Actually, I think the first portion of I-75 (Millcreek) expressway from where 74 is now to Paddock Road was built with bond money that was voted on. This was the portion that used most of the subway R/W and M-E canal R/W....and before the interstate act. I believe the value of the subway ROW alone was not enough to constitute the local match, that's why there was a bond issue for a "highway program". The highway program included a bunch of projects all over the city, things like lining up parallel streets to create continuous roads like that little twist University Ave. does at Burnett that required demolishing a few homes. Previously you had to turn to stay on the same street. There was a federal highway bill that preceded the Interstate Highway Act, but I'm not sure how that affected cities. At some point the city's capital budget was adjusted so that there was a constant revenue stream available for road/bridge maintenance and new projects. We have some huge projects coming up like The Western Hills Viaduct replacement, which will probably exceed $100 million, and unlike the streetcar I don't believe they can use TIF funds (a big reason why the streetcar is economically feasible without a tax increase). To replace that thing in 15 years the city needs to begin placing several million dollars per year into an account.
November 3, 200915 yr For the streetcar: Bortz/ Brockman/ Fixcher/ Flynn/ Harris/ Hollan/ Qualls/ Quinlivan/ Thomas/ Watson/ Young
November 3, 200915 yr >People aren't stupid, they'll read the amendment text (probably for the first time) before they fill in the box. Do you think people who can't read at a high school level read and fully comprehend the paragraphs of text that fill each issue box? Do you think people who are snookered by rent-to-own stores and blow money on scratch-off lotto tickets should have a say in the city's finances?
November 3, 200915 yr Interestingly, Anitra Brockman is the Green Party candidate. Her website states she is in favor of the streetcar, so I emailed her to ask her stance on Issue 9, since the SW OH Green Party supports the measure. Her response is below: 'Thank you for taking the time to send me an email before election. Although the green party is saying "Yes" to issue 9, I am saying "No" to issue 9. I believe that we are only getting in the way of the city progressing if we say "Yes"...'
November 3, 200915 yr http://cincinnatiansforprogress.com/Endorsements/ "It's just fate, as usual, keeping its bargain and screwing us in the fine print..." - John Crichton
November 3, 200915 yr For the streetcar: Bortz/ Brockman/ Fixcher/ Flynn/ Harris/ Hollan/ Qualls/ Quinlivan/ Thomas/ Watson/ Young Some groups/people endorsing a "Vote no" on issue 9: 1) Former President of the Ohio State Senate Stanley Aronoff 2) Former President of the Ohio State Senate Richard Finan 3) Representative Denise Driehaus 4) Bill Cunningham - Radio Personality 5) Mike McConnell - Radio Personality 6) Cincinnatians for Progress 7) Hamilton County Regional Planning Commission 8 ) City Council Woman and former Cincinnati Mayor Roxanne Qualls 9) The League of Women Voters of the Cincinnati Area 10) St Louis Urban Workshop 11) UC Student Government 12) The Cincinnati Zoo 13) Cincinnati AFL-CIO Labor Council 14) Councilman Chris Bortz 15) Cincinnati Charter Committee 16) Hamilton County Democrats 17) Councilman Jeff Berding 18) The Cincinnati Regional Chamber of Commerce 19) The Cincinnatus Association 20) Councilman Kevin Flynn 21) Councilman Cecil Thomas 22) Mayor Mark Mallory 23) Councilman David Crowley 24) Councilman Greg Harris 25) Councilwoman Leslie Ghiz 26) Hamilton County Commissioner David Pepper 27) Hamilton County Commissioner Todd Portune 28) Former Mayor Arn Bortz 29) Former Mayor Bobbie Sterne 30) Former Vice Mayor Jim Tarbell 31) State senator Eric Kearney 32) Cincinnati Business Courier 33) Cincy PAC 34) Hispanic Chamber of Commerce 35) Mayor's YPKC 36) Over-The-Rhine Chamber of Commerce 37) US Green Building Council - Cincy Chapter 38) Downtown Resident Council 39) Queen City Bike 40) Pendleton Neighborhood Council 41) Cincinnati Planning Commission 42) Cincinnati Enquirer Editorial Board 43) Cincinnati Democratic Party 44) The Sierra Club 45) All Aboard Ohio 46) Agenda 360 47) Southwest Ohio Regional Transit Authority 48) African American Chamber of Commerce Groups/People Endorsing a vote "YES" for Issue 9 are: 1) COAST 2) NAACP 3) Cincinnati Tea Party 4) Former Congressman and Mayor Tom Luken 5) Mark Miller and Wedemandavote 6) Councilman Charlie Winburn 7) Councilman Lemarque Ward 8 ) Southwest Ohio Green Party 9) Councilman Chris Monzel
November 3, 200915 yr Author Interestingly, Anitra Brockman is the Green Party candidate. Her website states she is in favor of the streetcar, so I emailed her to ask her stance on Issue 9, since the SW OH Green Party supports the measure. Her response is below: 'Thank you for taking the time to send me an email before election. Although the green party is saying "Yes" to issue 9, I am saying "No" to issue 9. I believe that we are only getting in the way of the city progressing if we say "Yes"...' Haap is the other green party candidate (school board). Meaning 100% of the Green Party Candidates are endorsing a No Vote on 9.
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