Last night I drove downtown from Clifton via Gilbert instead of my usual Vine Street route. 

 

It only took 4 minutes to go from Cory Street Krogers to Broadway Commons.  That is pretty good, and the route hits Peebles Corner which has tons of potential, and it hits the edge of Eden Park.  The downside is that it is a very roundabout way to get from Uptown to Findlay Market.  I agree that there is great potential for an incline or some kind of direct connection from Findlay Mkt to either Fairview or Bellevue (Ohio Street) Parks.  Maybe the bridge over McMicken and up W. Clifton idea should be investigated further to complete the loop.

Something I heard recently: the Taft and McMillan bridges over I-71 east of UC may not be able to carry the weight of a modern streetcar.

Sounds like that should be in one of the studies.  Interesting finding.

They would both be replaced in any of the I-71/MLK/Taft interchange schemes though, I believe.  I'm not sure that there's an official timetable but I have seen the five schemes they are deciding upon now.  The new bridges could easily be adapted to support that weight, I would think, so long as someone takes the possibility into account.

Has anyone heard any further news regarding federal funding for this project?  Any other word on funding in general.  It seems that funding is the only barrier we currently have to break through to make this system a reality..

They would both be replaced in any of the I-71/MLK/Taft interchange schemes though, I believe. I'm not sure that there's an official timetable but I have seen the five schemes they are deciding upon now. The new bridges could easily be adapted to support that weight, I would think, so long as someone takes the possibility into account.

 

I know they won't do it, but there should be a real effort to remove highway access from Taft/McMillan after they put the MLK interchange in.  King already looks like they dropped Beechmont in the middle of town, but Taft & McMillan still have their integrity.  Better to have the streetcar running down a road where someone wasn't just going 60 mph before he got on it.

The on-ramp from McMillan isn't so bad, but the off ramps to Taft and the area around Reading Road at the White Castle is very dangerous for pedestrians and bikes.

 

Streetcar Talk Tuesday

Posted by jprendergast January 11th, 2010, 11:36 am

 

http://cincinnati.com/blogs/politics/2010/01/11/streetcar-talk-today/

Title: "Streetcar Talk Tuesday"

URL: "streetcar-talk-today"

any word on council's decision on the streetcar funding today?

Discussion underway right now. You can watch it on CitiCable, Channel 23.

 

Thomas and Quinlivan have been terrrific. Winburn was pretty supportive. Bortz talking now.

Bortz is going to vote no. Ghiz is going to vote no.

Unfortunately I'm still at work.  Bortz is voting no?  What's his reasoning?

There's a lot of concern that this ordinance for $3.5 million doesn't actually specify what that money is to be spent for.  The argument is that it's to continue the environmental impact and utilities studies that would allow Cincinnati to keep its lead over other projects to receive federal and state grants.  There's also the question of what happens to this money if the required funding is not awarded and the project dies.  So those who are opposed to this ordinance are only really wary of it because of those contingencies, not because of any fundamental opposition to the project.

The item was held for two weeks to allow the City Administration come up with the specifics of what the appropriations will be for.

Discussion underway right now. You can watch it on CitiCable, Channel 23.

 

Winburn was pretty supportive.

 

Hilarious.

    "There's also the question of what happens to this money if the required funding is not awarded and the project dies."

 

  The city gets a study and the city is down $3.5 million. Duh.

  "There's also the question of what happens to this money if the required funding is not awarded and the project dies."

 

  The city gets a study and the city is down $3.5 million. Duh.

 

Sounds like a good reason to hold off on approving it to me. 

 

  Maybe the more appropriate question should have been, "What happens to my political career if the money is appropriated and the project dies?"

 

    Projects die for lack of funding all the time. This is part of the normal course of business.

 

   

But nothing as hotly contested as this. There isn't the greatest support for a streetcar in Cincinnati as in other cities, and it's one that still divides this city and one that not everyone still backs.

Cincinnati Streetcar will Connect Transportation Modes

http://cincystreetcar.wordpress.com/2010/01/13/cincinnati-streetcar-will-connect-transportation-modes/

http://cincinnati.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/blog/2010/01/things_looking_good_for_streetcar.html

 

Chris Eilerman, special projects coordinator in the city manager’s office, has said he expects to recieve a grant in the next few days that would cover a "significant" portion of the streetcar cost.

 

Anyone else have any other info on this???

There isn't the greatest support for a streetcar in Cincinnati as in other cities, and it's one that still divides this city and one that not everyone still backs.

 

Do you have evidence to support this claim?  The reason I ask is to not be snarky, but because I'm actually curious.  Many cities are pursuing streetcar systems right now and Cincinnati is one of the furthest along with their plan.  I can only really think of one or two cities (Washington D.C., Milwaukee) that might have more support and momentum for their proposals than Cincinnati.

Maybe he means constituent support.

I'm relating it to political and popular support. Issue 9 failed, which is great, but not by the greatest of margins. And there isn't a full support in council. It's thankful that we have a majority and a mayor who supports this, and a broad group of supporters that are behind some sort of rail proposal (not all support streetcars who support light rail). The tide could have easily turned, such as what happened with the huge defeat for Metro Moves.

I'm relating it to political and popular support. Issue 9 failed, which is great, but not by the greatest of margins. And there isn't a full support in council. It's thankful that we have a majority and a mayor who supports this, and a broad group of supporters that are behind some sort of rail proposal (not all support streetcars who support light rail). The tide could have easily turned, such as what happened with the huge defeat for Metro Moves.

 

You should note that Metro Moves "huge defeat" was by about the same margin that Issue 9 failed.  It should also be noted that Metro Moves was a county-wide vote versus a city-wide vote.  The two proposals are hard to compare for a variety of reasons and go far beyond both including rail transit.  Metro Moves was a gargantuan plan that included several light rail lines, streetcar lines, and a completely overhauled bus system.

 

But to my previous question, do you know of more cities than are further ahead and have greater support for their streetcar proposals than Cincinnati?  Like I said before, I'm not sure I can think of more than a couple and it makes me scratch my head that you would say Cincinnati doesn't enjoy the "greatest support" that other cities do for their streetcar proposals.

A few things to note:

 

*The Mayor, who campaigned on the streetcar, was re-elected

*In the past two council elections every councilperson who has ever voted for the streetcar was reelected

*Laurie Quinlivin who was arguably the single largest supporter of the streetcar in the council field was elected as a first time challanger

Issue 9 failed with 56% no 44% yes, but Metro Moves failed with 68% no and only 32% yes.  That's a much bigger spread.  Though the fact that Metro Moves was countywide does explain why it had a tougher time passing.

http://cincinnati.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/blog/2010/01/things_looking_good_for_streetcar.html

 

Chris Eilerman, special projects coordinator in the city manager’s office, has said he expects to recieve a grant in the next few days that would cover a "significant" portion of the streetcar cost.

 

Anyone else have any other info on this???

 

Huge news if true!  And its nice to hear something reasonably quantifiable compared to the oft-used "coming soon."

Issue 9 failed with 56% no 44% yes, but Metro Moves failed with 68% no and only 32% yes. That's a much bigger spread. Though the fact that Metro Moves was countywide does explain why it had a tougher time passing.

 

True, and be lucky that this isn't a county issue. I wonder if any prospective polling has been done for a new light rail proposal?

Chris Eilerman said that "news about the city receiving government grants to cover a significant part of the $128 million project is just days away."  He did not say that he expects to receive a grant in the next few days.  He will simply find out a "yes or no" about our application.

 

Hopefully its good news, but its not certain yet. 

 

Issue 9 failed with 56% no 44% yes, but Metro Moves failed with 68% no and only 32% yes. That's a much bigger spread. Though the fact that Metro Moves was countywide does explain why it had a tougher time passing.

 

True...But remember that was before rising gas prices.  Two summers ago many people of both sides of the political spectrum were outraged on why we don't have any rail transportation.  It's all about timing.  Now gas prices are quietly rising again.  It will be interesting to see how the region acts if the prices become outrageous again this summer

Metro Moves died because of the stadium overruns and the riot.  Enough old people have died or moved away and been replaced by transplants that memories of these two events is fading and a new vote would more accurately measure the public's support for better regional public transportation. 

The riot has faded though not as much as we'd like. I actually think the stadium tax issues continues to be pretty front and center for many in the regions, especially when any ballot issue would like have to take place alongside of a completely bankrupt county gov't and potentially bankrupt city gov't (I don't buy that they can make it through the next budget cycle with the kind of smoke and mirrors of the last).

My experience with recent transplants is that they have no knowledge whatsoever of the riot, downtown boycott, or stadium overruns.  This segment of the population will increase steadily, and if another vote takes place in five years, those who are 18 will have been like 4 when all that took place.  Also, any turnover at 700WLW would help the cause. 

Here is a link to an Enquirer article from 2003.  This is a perfect illustration of the association of the subway and light rail to the Paul Brown Stadium overruns:

 

http://www.enquirer.com/editions/2003/05/24/loc_radel24.html

 

Again, it doesn't matter how many projects large and small come in on time and on budget; the COAST-types will continuously bring up the stadiums, the subway, and the Riverfront Transit Center. 

 

 

My experience with recent transplants is that they have no knowledge whatsoever of the riot, downtown boycott, or stadium overruns. This segment of the population will increase steadily, and if another vote takes place in five years, those who are 18 will have been like 4 when all that took place. Also, any turnover at 700WLW would help the cause.

 

lol

Here is a link to an Enquirer article from 2003. This is a perfect illustration of the association of the subway and light rail to the Paul Brown Stadium overruns:

 

http://www.enquirer.com/editions/2003/05/24/loc_radel24.html

 

Again, it doesn't matter how many projects large and small come in on time and on budget; the COAST-types will continuously bring up the stadiums, the subway, and the Riverfront Transit Center.

 

Don't make too much of COAST.  Their pet issues during the past two cycles (prop rep in  2008 & Issue 9 in 2009) have been roundly rejected.  Their only real box-office triumph was the rejection of Pepper's jail tax (which I'm using for lack of a better term) in 2007.  That's what really started the COAST/NAACP coalition.

 

The identification of an politician and their subsequent electoral success has little to do with the issues they espouse.  In 2007, Qualls and Cranley came in 1st & 2nd, with, in all likelihood, a great deal of similar voters support.  Yet they would certainly differ regarding the Streetcar, and other prominent issues. 

 

In my opinion, the MetroMoves plan wasn't that great.  It was largely the I-71 corridor plan with a bunch of other possible commuter lines drawn on to give a sense of that it was comprehensive.  My understanding was that they went with I-71 first because that's where the growth was heading at the time (it might still be), even though, I suspect most people's experience is that I-75 is more crowded and subject to more delays (I could be wrong about this).  I think it's hard for the average voter to understand why a purported regional rail plan wouldn't actually end up taking you to the airport.  The fact of the matter is that it is still relatively easy to commute around this metro by car, and I suspect that played a part in it's defeat as well.

 

If we actually believe that the voters were convinced by the merits of the arguments against Issue 9, which I believe they were (and there were polls that showed a majority of voters were against the streetcar, but a majority were also against Issue 9, which suggests that voters were able to understand the argument that CfP was making), then I think we can be a little generous and assume that there were legitimate reasons why people voted against MetroMoves, the fact that the local funding match was through a sales tax was probably reason number one.  It's a pretty regressive way to help fund public transit.

 

In my opinion, the loss of MetroMoves had some beneficial consequences.  It moved the impetus of governing in the region from the County (which is now basically a constant exercise in triage) back to the City.  The Streetcar is front and center, and it can be the basis for future rail transit that emphasizes density and the economic areas outlined in the GO Cincinnati plan.  As Jake said in an earlier post, I'd rather have 10,000 new residents in the City than 30,000 new residents in West Chester.

They messed up initially by calling the I-71 line the I-71 line.  It should have been called the Central Line.  Seattle called their first line the "Central Link".  We called Central Parkway Central Parkway even though it's not really straight down the center.  Similarly the I-71 line was actually *between* I-71 and I-75, slightly favoring the I-71 side.  It would have never crossed or run immediately next to I-71 except maybe up in Mason.

 

This was the line with the highest ROI. It would have used an existing railroad ROW north of Norwood, the CL&N (the one that goes through Pleasant Ridge and Blue Ash).  It would have traveled through the region's #1, #2, and #3 employment areas.  Further it created the important trunk between Xavier and downtown via UC that would have allowed the I-75 and Wasson Rd. lines to also travel on this same track, meaning service in the county's most densely populated area would have been very frequent, even late at night and on Sundays. 

 

There were two main problems with the I-71 line.  First, it was never going to pass a countywide vote, hence the county-wide Metro Moves plan.  Second, it wasn't going to be fast enough for those commuting from outside I-275 to uptown or downtown.  There needed to be more grade separation between Xavier and downtown, especially, I think, on Martin Luther King Dr.  The stretch between Reading Rd. and UC definitely needed to be underground. 

 

Some good news on the transit/streetcar funding front.

 

US DOT just removed (yesterday) their long standing requirements that limited transit/rail funding opportunities. This is a significant step forward and should allow transit to be more competitive for federal dollars.

 

US DOT also announced that they may tap into TIGER funds ($1.5 billion) for rail projects.

 

US DOT will also be announcing who will be awarded the $130 million in streetcar funds early this year. A maximum of $25 million per project will be allocated. They will also be allocating $150 million for bus transit needs as well.

 

Hopefully Cincy is one of the 5 getting the first round of $25 million.

^This is really good news, especially the bureaucratic change.  Oftentimes it is these changes that seem so minute that actually have the biggest effect.

 

There were two main problems with the I-71 line. First, it was never going to pass a countywide vote, hence the county-wide Metro Moves plan. Second, it wasn't going to be fast enough for those commuting from outside I-275 to uptown or downtown. There needed to be more grade separation between Xavier and downtown, especially, I think, on Martin Luther King Dr. The stretch between Reading Rd. and UC definitely needed to be underground.

 

Definitely.  It's amusing to me that people constantly say how expensive it is to build a subway tunnel nowadays, that it is a dealbreaker.  As if it wasn't expensive to destroy entire neighborhoods, a huge bridge, shore up an entire hillside, and cut a massive grade throughout the entire county to build I-75.  As if we aren't still paying for it.

Federal funding shift could aid D.C. area transit projects (Yes, I know it's DC, but a great article)

By Ashley Halsey III

Washington Post Staff Writer

Thursday, January 14, 2010

 

The Obama administration announced a major shift in transportation policy Wednesday that would steer more money to transit projects designed to spur economic development and help the environment.

 

 

 

 

That's incredibly big news, now that they are considering Livability and Raw Number of People moved in transit projects rather than which projects moved the most number of people for the least amount of money. I am sure Fairfax County in VA is pretty saddened this didn't happen earlier for their Silver Line, but for Cincinnati it should be great news!

^Too much has been made of the benefits of overlapping services.  This report details a lot of good things that can be done, but the reality is that a lot of people live where they do so they don't have to pay as much for public programs that they can opt out of.

 

What's more important is that in Washington, bureaucratic policy changes are made so that money goes to places were it is actually needed and that regulation isn't so tight as to disallow local flexibility when things are implemented.  Locally it is key that the City of Cincinnati become again the economic driver of the region.  City/County consolidation will happen when the City is wealthy and willing to take in the crappy parts of the County rather than expecting the more populous County to combine with what they might believe to be a cesspool of a City.  The Streetcar is a major tool toward this turnover.

Whoops.  This report:

 

http://www.hamiltoncountyohio.gov/hcrpc/partner/gcep/pdf/PROJECT_REPORT_GCEP_Phase_1_071214.pdf

Just got back from another streetcar tour of Portland. After the tour, a couple of us took Amtrak to Seattle It left right on time and took three hours and fifteen minutes to go 144 miles (by car = 2.5 hours), arriving fifteen minutes early. Business class seats -- much more comfortable than first-class airline seats -- were $42 one-way. Great connections to Portland's Union Station via the new Green Line light rail on Fifth and Sixth Avenues. On the other hand, a very awkward connection from Seattle's King Street Station to the new light rail. We saw no signs, and no one seemed to know where it was. It's fairly close to the Amtrak service, but walking there is roundabout and confusing. Maybe they have a plan to connect them better, but it's not apparent how they would do it.

 

Seattle's streetcar didn't have a whole lot of riders when we were there early on a Saturday night, but there is definitely real estate investment going on all around it. Amazon.com's new urban campus is under construciton right on the line.

 

Seattle's light rail to its airport is something to behold. It would seem to be the best downtown-to-airport service in the country, but that's setting a pretty low bar. There's lots of grade separation, so not a lot of benefit is rubbing off on the adjacent neighborhoods yet. But from a pure transportation perspective, it's really fast -- not a lot of stops like Portland's. Loved Seattle's rail/bus transit tunnel's architecture, but it's not very user-friendly for someone who is unfamiliar with it. For example, it's not obvious how you buy a ticket. You can't buy one at the platform level.

 

I'd recommend that anyone wanting to see all kinds of passenger rail -- take a few days to travel between Portland, Tacoma, Seattle and Vancouver. You can see just about every kind of rail that's operating in North America today, and you won't need a car. It's effortless.

XUMelanie and I will be posting some of our takeaways from the Portland trip over the next few days on http://mycincinnatilife.com .

XUMelanie and I will be posting some of our takeaways from the Portland trip over the next few days on http://mycincinnatilife.com .

Nice website.

 

 

  I got the chance to talk to a Cincinnati Firefighter who fought the Elm Street fire. He was about to enter the building when the order to evacuate was given. Then, he helped set up an aerial hose, and finally, entered the building next door to keep the fire from spreading to that building.

 

  His company at first set up on Elm Street, then drove around the block to work from the other direction.

 

  So, what would have happened to the streetcar if it had been in operation?

 

    He said that they had no choice but to shut down the streetcar line for about 10 hours. The firefighters took up the entire street. For a while, they thought that the facade might collapse, and they had to reposition everything away from the  building.

 

    In the old days, the Cincinnati Street Railway had a special peice of trackwork that they could transport on a motor truck that they used to build a rail bridge over a fire hose. That way, streetcar service would not be interupted by a fire hose crossing the track. In this case, there was too much equipment in the street, plus the danger of the facade collapsing, to keep the line open.

 

   

In the old days, the Cincinnati Street Railway had a special peice of trackwork that they could transport on a motor truck that they used to build a rail bridge over a fire hose. That way, streetcar service would not be interupted by a fire hose crossing the track. In this case, there was too much equipment in the street, plus the danger of the facade collapsing, to keep the line open.

I wonder if there is any comparable system today?

My understanding is that at least a good portion of the route would be cut off until the issue is resolved.  I believe there are occasional cross points that allow at least some of the route to still run.

 

Also, this type of issue while rare does occur and needs to be planned around.  Work arounds could be done by partnering with Metro with a SLA (service level agreement) to have buses handle that part of the route within a certain period of time (half hour to an hour) from when the issue is identified.