February 16, 201015 yr The twin peaks streetcar tunnel in San Francisco has a lot of similarities with what's being proposed. It allowed Market St. streetcars (Market St. had 4 streetcar tracks) to travel to the Pacific Ocean side of San Francisco quickly and opened up a large ranch for for residential development. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twin_Peaks_Tunnel The streetcar tunnel was modified for light rail and now the MUNI light rail trains use it and run directly into the 3-mile Market St. Subway, which was built as part of BART. The MUNI trains run on two tracks on the upper level and BART runs on two separate tracks on the lower level. This is the only 4-track subwa in the United States outside New York except Philadelphia's Broad St. line.
February 16, 201015 yr Can we get a little excitement around here for uncomifrmed reports of funding?! RT@ttpolitic Appears TIGER streetcar grants going to Atlanta, Charlotte, Kansas City, Tucson, Cincinnati this week! (thanks @eschor @kclightrail) http://twitter.com/ttpolitic
February 16, 201015 yr [toes too...] "It's just fate, as usual, keeping its bargain and screwing us in the fine print..." - John Crichton
February 16, 201015 yr Via @kclightrail: Other Obama administration peeps will appear in Atlanta, Cincinnati, and Charlotte. All are home to modern streetcar projects. http://twitter.com/kclightrail Very exciting times! “All truly great thoughts are conceived while walking.” -Friedrich Nietzsche
February 16, 201015 yr Cincinnati streetcar announcement Wednesday? Could an important Cincinnati streetcar announcement come tomorrow? @ttpolitic: Appears TIGER streetcar grants going to Atlanta, Charlotte, Kansas City, Tucson, Cincinnati this week! The twitter user, ttpolitic, also known by his real name as Yonah Freemark, manages the credible The Transport Politic. It has already been mentioned that the New York City Moynihan Station is the first TIGER recipient, but officials are tight-lipped about other potential recipients of the TIGER grants, including Cincinnati. The city has requested $60 million in funding to start construction of the streetcar, which could be opened as early as 2012. It is confirmed that HUD Secretary Shaun Donovan will travel to the Queen City on Thursday to visit Forest Square in Avondale, an affordable housing development currently under construction made possible as a result of Recovery Act Tax Credit Assistance Program funding and Treasury Exchange funding. There is so far no official confirmation of TIGER money for Cincinnati being dispensed yet.
February 16, 201015 yr I'm told USDOT Secretary Ray Lahood will be in Ohio TOMORROW to announce a TIGER grant award, supposedly for a rail project. I don't know where in Ohio he will go. But there are three TIGER rail project applications in Ohio that I'm aware of -- Cincinnati streetcar, $250 million for CSX's National Gateway freight corridor, and conversion of a Gahanna bomber plant into a US Railcar Corp. factory. I hate waiting...... "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
February 16, 201015 yr Exciting, I have confidence it will be enough. No reason to give funds in an amount that is just going to handicap a city. I'll be checking here tomorrow for news because we all know we'll have it here before the enquirer
February 16, 201015 yr Boston and Philadelphia both have active streetcar tunnels, but they're both old as dirt and not particularly photogenic. For more recent light rail tunnels, do a search for the Weehawken station on New Jersey's Hudson-Bergen light rail system, the newly-opened light rail line in Seattle, and one deep-bore station on the Portland MAX light rail system. Thank you both for your replies. Very clean looking stations, basically like a heavy rail station only shallower platforms.
February 16, 201015 yr I'm told USDOT Secretary Ray Lahood will be in Ohio TOMORROW to announce a TIGER grant award, supposedly for a rail project. I don't know where in Ohio he will go. But there are three TIGER rail project applications in Ohio that I'm aware of -- Cincinnati streetcar, $250 million for CSX's National Gateway freight corridor, and conversion of a Gahanna bomber plant into a US Railcar Corp. factory. I hate waiting...... Rumor has it for that as well, but nothing is confirmed yet. The Washington Post reports that he will be in Kansas City releasing information about the TIGER funding.
February 17, 201015 yr If Cincinnati received the $60 million it was asking for, what would that mean? I assume it will mean they will start utility relocation and other engineering work. It is kind of hard to tell cause 60 isn't enough to finish even the first phase. This is exciting news though unconfirmed.
February 17, 201015 yr Author $56.5 billion in applications were submitted for only $1.5 billion in TIGER Grants. Around 1400 projects applied and about 50 were funded. Other possible funding sources for the streetcar include the DOT Urban Circulators Program, a possible TIGER 2, the State of Ohio TRAC program, and Small Starts/New Starts
February 17, 201015 yr http://www.dot.gov/documents/finaltigergrantinfo.pdf Short of it: No TIGER Grant funding for the streetcar.
February 17, 201015 yr Christian Ude, the Lord Mayor of Munich, is in Cincinnati today. Maybe someone can ask him for advice on creating a world-class public transportation system.
February 17, 201015 yr That's a bummer, but not the end of the world. Keeping my fingers crossed for better news in the near future.
February 17, 201015 yr It would be nice if some of the corporate movers and shakers (P&G, Kroger, Macy's, etc.) could throw some money toward the project. I know things are tight, but it would be a great way to give back to the community and make Cincinnati a more attractive city for new talent, which they would directly benefit from. They'd also get some nice PR cred in the process.
February 17, 201015 yr It would be nice if some of the corporate movers and shakers (P&G, Kroger, Macy's, etc.) could throw some money toward the project. I know things are tight, but it would be a great way to give back to the community and make Cincinnati a more attractive city for new talent, which they would directly benefit from. They'd also get some nice PR cred in the process. Put their logos all over the cars and give them mega-PR/street cred ... :)
February 17, 201015 yr Jeez, between this and the 3C corridor skipping Cincinnati it's like we're the Rodney Dangerfield of cities. "Someone is sitting in the shade today because someone planted a tree a long time ago." - Warren Buffett
February 17, 201015 yr Relax... There are still other grant programs we're waiting to hear back from.
February 17, 201015 yr Jeez, between this and the 3C corridor skipping Cincinnati it's like we're the Rodney Dangerfield of cities. 3C won't skip Cincy. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
February 17, 201015 yr here are the rail/transit projects that were funded: TN/AL: Crescent Corridor Freight Rail Improvements: $105 million IL: CREATE Corridor Rail Improvements: $100 million OH/PA/WV/MD: National Gateway Freight Rail Corridor Improvements: $98 million NY: Moynihan Station Phase I: $83 million AZ: Tucson Streetcar: $63 million DC/VA/MD: Priority Buses: $58.8 million MA: Fitchburg Commuter Rail: $55.5 million MO/KS: Kansas City Priority Transit Corridors: $50 million LA: New Orleans Union Passenger Terminal Streetcar: $45 million MN: St. Paul Union Depot Reconstruction: $35 million NV: Las Vegas Sahara Ave BRT: $34.4 million MI: Detroit Woodward LRT: $25 million OR: Portland SW Moody/Streetcar: $23.2 million PA/NJ: Philadelphia Region Bike and Ped Improvements: $23 million TX: Downtown Dallas Streetcar: $23 million IL: Normal Transportation Center: $22 million IN: Indianapolis Ped and Bike Improvements: $20.5 million http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2010/02/17/tiger-stimulus-funds-awarded-to-lucky-transportation-projects/
February 17, 201015 yr Anyone have an idea why Tucson would be chosen over Cincy? I'm pretty sure it's not population density. Probably not development potential, either. And I think Driehaus is in more danger than the Dems in the Tucson area. Only thing I can think of is that maybe their project will be fully funded by this money. Don't feel like looking that up now, though. Edit: Nope, not that, it's a $183mil project.
February 17, 201015 yr ^ University of Arizona and downtown, a simplified map: http://www.tucsontransitstudy.com/pdf/2007_05_study_area_map_w-route.pdf
February 17, 201015 yr Also note that while $1.5 billion was announced today, a second round of awards totaling $600 million will be announced (don't know when). That $600 million was included for TIGER by Congress in the 2010 transportation budget. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
February 17, 201015 yr It would be nice if some of the corporate movers and shakers (P&G, Kroger, Macy's, etc.) could throw some money toward the project. I know things are tight, but it would be a great way to give back to the community and make Cincinnati a more attractive city for new talent, which they would directly benefit from. They'd also get some nice PR cred in the process. Put their logos all over the cars and give them mega-PR/street cred ... :) That's exactly what I was thinking. Heck, they could plaster their name wherever they wanted for all I care. I love that idea. sincerely, Dick Jones, Executive, Omni Consumer Products
February 17, 201015 yr Tucson passed a sales tax to fund the rest of their project didn't they? That probably had something to do with it. It shows its far more popular idea there than it is here...
February 17, 201015 yr Tucson passed a sales tax to fund the rest of their project didn't they? That probably had something to do with it. It shows its far more popular idea there than it is here... Naysaying...this is why we can't have nice things.
February 17, 201015 yr Tucson passed a sales tax to fund the rest of their project didn't they? That probably had something to do with it. It shows its far more popular idea there than it is here... Naysaying...this is why we can't have nice things. So the key remains popularity. Politicians will support any project if they think it will make people like them. So PR/education continues to be the issue for the pro-streetcar crowd? Maybe the federal/city split of funding is key too. Does the county support the streetcar in any way?
February 17, 201015 yr It shows its far more popular idea there than it is here... Nah. It just shows that Tucson developed a more substantial plan to financially sustain the streetcar over the long term. Think of the federal government as an investor in these types of projects. Fiscal sustainability, completing all NEPA documentation and the extent of economic impacts are the big items on the balance sheet the feds are looking for when they score projects. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
February 17, 201015 yr Wow, I really was expecting this funding to be allocated to Cincinnati. What a bummer. So when is the next round of funding that we are up for announced?
February 17, 201015 yr Boise also didn't get funds, but they were considered a long shot. More importantly, this article states that their Mayor "will be in Washington, D.C. from Feb. 23 to 25 to attend a "streetcar summit" to learn about future federal funding opportunities". Anyone familiar with this "summit"? "It's just fate, as usual, keeping its bargain and screwing us in the fine print..." - John Crichton
February 17, 201015 yr What kills me about the list of recipients is that many of those cities already have fairly nice and extensive streetcar systems...portland, dallas (well, light rail, but close), new orleans And 20.5 million for bike and ped improvements in Indy? Really!? There must have been something critically wrong with our application if we got beat out by stuff like that.
February 17, 201015 yr ^And New Orleans is fully funded by TIGER. "It's just fate, as usual, keeping its bargain and screwing us in the fine print..." - John Crichton
February 17, 201015 yr There's got to be a lot more political BS going on that's influencing these choices. How else could you explain them fully funding a project in a city that already has a functioning streetcar line and completely ignoring Cincinnati that has an excellent plan in place that fits the Obama administration's agenda to the T. I'm sorry to be so cynical, but the feds really screwed us on this one. I guess we need to figure out how New Orleans and Tuscon pulled it off and try to do the same for this next round of funding. Hopefully we'll get some love from other sources before the city gives up on this plan or delays it so long it fizzles out?
February 17, 201015 yr There's got to be a lot more political BS going on that's influencing these choices. How else could you explain them fully funding a project in a city that already has a functioning streetcar line and completely ignoring Cincinnati that has an excellent plan in place that fits the Obama administration's agenda to the T. The economic impact portion of the scorecard for Cincinnati was fine. That wasn't the problem. How substantial is the local plan to financially sustain a streetcar over the long term? Having an ongoing, locally funded system (or proposed system), preferably supported by taxpayer dollars (which is more stable than private dollars or even fares), is what the feds are often looking for. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
February 17, 201015 yr Tucson passed a sales tax to fund the rest of their project didn't they? That probably had something to do with it. It shows its far more popular idea there than it is here... Naysaying...this is why we can't have nice things. Or, being realistic. Perhaps Tucson had developed a proposal that was more extensive than what Cincinnati had submitted, and had a more reliable funding source that is still in question here in Cincinnati? You can't even get a sales tax increase passed here in Hamilton County after the failed stadium financing debacle. That said, this is a wake-up call that the Cincinnati streetcar is not universally supported -- even on the federal level, and that to receive future funding, we need to up the ante and polish our plan. Let's learn from what we did wrong and look to other cities at what they did right, and push again.
February 17, 201015 yr And Ohio did get money for other projects - though the big winner is Cbus instead of Cincy. I'd also point out that generally a continuing investment is a much surer deal than creating a new system.
February 17, 201015 yr Tucson passed a sales tax to fund the rest of their project didn't they? That probably had something to do with it. It shows its far more popular idea there than it is here... Naysaying...this is why we can't have nice things. Or, being realistic. Perhaps Tucson had developed a proposal that was more extensive than what Cincinnati had submitted, and had a more reliable funding source that is still in question here in Cincinnati? You can't even get a sales tax increase passed here in Hamilton County after the failed stadium financing debacle. That said, this is a wake-up call that the Cincinnati streetcar is not universally supported -- even on the federal level, and that to receive future funding, we need to up the ante and polish our plan. Let's learn from what we did wrong and look to other cities at what they did right, and push again. Another lesson we can learn is to not post completely unsubstantiated rumors as if they are true. "There is so far no official confirmation of TIGER money for Cincinnati being dispensed yet." That was posted yesterday: http://urbanup.net/index.php?q=blog&id=130
February 17, 201015 yr Dallas streetcar wins, but is it a good thing? From article: "Getting federal money is surely welcome at City Hall, but it does have a downside. The city's plan to build a line on its own could have been completed as quickly as three years. Working through the federal funding process is certain to take considerably longer." Wasn't 2012 the believed finish date should Cincinnati get grant(s)? "It's just fate, as usual, keeping its bargain and screwing us in the fine print..." - John Crichton
February 17, 201015 yr The comments on the enquirer are insane. No kidding. I had to stop reading them I was getting so infuriated I thought my head was going to explode. One guy actually said "the only thing we should be connecting OtR to is a jail"
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