I wonder if Jim Borgman has ever drawn a cartoon about downtown Cincinnati that was positive.

 

From Jan 21, 2007:

 

more: http://borgman.cincinnati.com/Search.aspx?s=downtown

wasn't it Borgman who did the "Graydon and I moved up to OTR from Indian Hill" cartoon?

wasn't it Borgman who did the "Graydon and I moved up to OTR from Indian Hill" cartoon?

Probably, but I thought that was tongue-in-cheek.

 

The link I posted shows a slew of other negative downtown cartoons.  Off topic, but it would be nice if we had some pro-urban cartoons in the paper sometimes.

I did a quick search (I find his comics rather entertaining) and came across 5 positive CBD-Cincinnati graphics.

I did a quick search (I find his comics rather entertaining) and came across 5 positive CBD-Cincinnati graphics.

5 out of how many?

Borgman isn't a city hater.  He's a big supporter of Cincinnati, and all of its neighborhoods.  Let's not search out conflict where there isn't any.

Probably, but I thought that was tongue-in-cheek.

It was to some extent, but it was his recognizing the tremendous progress of OTR.

I wasn't trying to stir discontent. I just looked at his downtown cartoons and was left wondering if he had ever covered any of the recent positive developments downtown, that's all.

 

 

He retired before many of the more recent projects really got off the ground.

>the City of Cincinnati's history

 

Nobody's been able to prove that Cincinnati has an exceptional number of unfinished/unstarted civic projects.  And that line of thinking has gotten stupider in recent years since the county was responsible for the Banks garages and the city was helpless to do anything until that was resolved. 

They are talking $3.00+ for a gallon of gas this spring. With another up cycle, rail will become more enticing. If we could get any momentum in local/state tax revenue that would help a ton as well.

 

Don't forget a possible currency crisis! That $3 might magically turn into $5.  :P

With the Euro in such bad shape, a major U.S. currency problem could end with us all eating dirt and not much worrying about streetcars because we'll be arming for Thunderdome.

Streetcar report on chan 5 news coming up now...

^

Was pretty good. Didn't show a bunch of old streetcar images for a change.

 

I've been complaining to John London about this for a while, and he's been trying to purge the newsroom of video and stills showing vintage cars. Looks like they're getting there.

Anyone got a link?

Here's an article but no video: http://www.wlwt.com/news/22656791/detail.html

Here's an article but no video: http://www.wlwt.com/news/22656791/detail.html

From the comment section:

I think everyone needs to put a call intok the White House, tellling them we do not want streetcars. You can also email at [email protected]. Phone numbers are: 1-202-456-1111 (direct to comment line) or 1-202-456-1414 to be transferred to the comment line. I just made my call and sent an email as well.

 

Feb. 24, 2010 1:06pm EST | from Chenoosesmom

Kind of humorous, really.

Here's an article but no video: http://www.wlwt.com/news/22656791/detail.html

From the comment section:

I think everyone needs to put a call intok the White House, tellling them we do not want streetcars. You can also email at [email protected]. Phone numbers are: 1-202-456-1111 (direct to comment line) or 1-202-456-1414 to be transferred to the comment line. I just made my call and sent an email as well.

 

Feb. 24, 2010 1:06pm EST | from Chenoosesmom

Kind of humorous, really.

So that's why Cincinnati didn't get any TIGER funds.

"Are you in favor of streetcars in Cincinnati?" is the question of the day on http://Fox19.com/ ... Go vote YES!

Wow, the answers:

 

Yes, it would make traveling more convenient use the money for other things

 

or

 

No, the city could use the money for other things

 

By "other things" they should really specify that those other things have to be capital projects and the TIF funding is geographically restricted to the TIF district and for the Federal funding (urban circulators comes to mind) no we can't use it for other things.

9:26AM

 

36% Yes

64% No

What a horrible way to word the question. Sure, the money could be used for better things. It doesn't say how much the money is so I'm gonna assume it can be used for anything. That being said lets build all new stadiums, gold plated streets and an inverted monorail system that links all of the tri-state to the Kenwood mall and with the money we have left over we'll buy the cure for cancer and farmville pets for anyone with a facebook account. That's how the money could be better spent, thanks or opening my eyes Fox 19!

 

I still voted yes though, cause I don't like Farmville.

"Are you in favor of streetcars in Cincinnati?" is the question of the day on http://Fox19.com/ ... Go vote YES!

 

How many times does this fucking question have to be asked in these stupid online polls? They mean nothing....

Apparently you can vote more than once.  KJP is pretty much right even though if it was 95% Yes I'd be singing a different tune.

As you may know, Jerry Springer is going to be in town this weekend. Among other things, he's trying to help Laure Quinlivan retire her campaign debt. She's one of our two biggest supporters of the Cincinnati Streetcar on City Council right now. She's outspoken on the need for it. She built her campaign around it.

 

Springer grew up in NYC, went to college in New Orleans and now lives in what is arguably the best rail city in America. Despite the zaniness of his show, he's an original thinker, and he's going to be talking about the importance of rail for Cincinnati. He may get the media to pay attention to this story in ways that they haven't so far.

 

About fifty people have signed up for the event below. Please come if you can. Thanks.

 

http://cincinnati.com/blogs/politics/2010/02/24/megastar-springer-helps-lq-reduce-debt/#pluckcomments

Want to show your support for the Cincinnati Streetcar and support local business? Then head down to Coffee Emporium, located at 110 E. Central Parkway in Historic Over-the-Rhine, to purchase a locally roasted cup of coffee an a new Cincinnati Streetcar Button.  Available for only $0.50 and in a variety of colors, these buttons are a great way to show your support for the Cincinnati Streetcar.

Want to show your support for the Cincinnati Streetcar and support local business? Then head down to Coffee Emporium, located at 110 E. Central Parkway in Historic Over-the-Rhine, to purchase a locally roasted cup of coffee an a new Cincinnati Streetcar Button. Available for only $0.50 and in a variety of colors, these buttons are a great way to show your support for the Cincinnati Streetcar.

 

 

Those look great.  I'm curious though, if you can get those at the registers of places outside OTR and Uptown.  Those are the people that are willing to support it the most.  What about putting them at Coffee Emporium in Hyde Park too?

^Not a bad idea.  We have bumper stickers at Essencha in Oakley (they may have sold out)

Mayor Mallory Discusses Streetcar Summit

http://www.wlwt.com/video/22675385/index.html

That was nice, Jack threw the mayor some softballs.

 

For once. The poor man deserves it. He's doing good for Cincy.

^Really?  Anyone else notice this story in the Enquirer:

 

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20100224/NEWS0108/2250331

 

It was conspicuous for lacking a single quote from Mallory regarding a looming fiscal crisis for the City.

 

And I fear the worst thing about that article is the potential impact on the Streetcar.  They are suggesting that the City sell about a half a billion dollars in property to fund the pension obligations that had so long been underfunded (a practice begun during the late 90's under then Mayor Qualls, if I'm not mistaken).  The article suggests that the City will try to sell "land, buildings, parking garages..." in order to raise the money.  I can't imagine a worse time to try and sell land or buildings.  That leaves parking garages as the only valuable rent producing asset the City has, and the only thing close to commanding the $500 million price tag they need to reach.  So while at a time when the City should be consolidating with the intention of limiting parking along the Streetcar routes in order to both increase the amount of people using the Streetcar as well as the amount charged for the scarcer parking spots, Qualls and Company want to sell key assets to avoid making tough decisions.

Read in the article where there is no penalty for underfunding the pension plan.  This is critical -- no operating budget should ever be allowed to do this.  This is probably not a state law, which is why they were able to get away with it.  There should be a state law in place to prevent this, if there isn't.   

 

Second, every time the sale of the Cincinnati Southern Railway has been proposed going way back to the 1880's or 1890's, soon after it was completed, it's always been during a national recession when top dollar couldn't be commanded.  Its sale does require a public vote so it's not as if council could do it next week. 

Second, every time the sale of the Cincinnati Southern Railway has been proposed going way back to the 1880's or 1890's, soon after it was completed, it's always been during a national recession when top dollar couldn't be commanded. Its sale does require a public vote so it's not as if council could do it next week.

 

It's amazing that Cincinnati's most enterprising investment, one that has brought billions of dollars in lease payments and development to the city, is the best example of something the city actually did right, and which has never been achieved by another city in the country before or since, is of all things, a railroad. 

^And the public doesn't even know about it. 

 

Not only does the city receive a lot of free money from it every year, that sum will only increase when higher fuel prices force more freight onto rail.  This is why Warren Buffett recently invested in BNSF.  They presently get around $18 million per year from it, so it's unlikely that they've gotten more than $1 billion in actual dollars directly from the lease but surely more than that adjusted for inflation, even before increased revenues from improved commerce.

 

The first thing the City has to do is get out of offering a defined-benefit pension, immediately.  They are ticking time-bombs.

 

I don't know a ton about finance, nor do I know much about pension rules, but I get the feeling that these folks aren't thinking of particularly creative ways to raise revenue.  They ruled out pension obligation bonds, but why not sell enought p.o. bonds to cover the deficit, and then use they money raised to buy an assortment of foreign and corporate bonds that pay higher premiums than the bonds you've issued?  Obviously they'd be somewhat risky but they can't be riskier than not funding the the pension fund.  Combine that with increased payments into the funds, rolling all City owned parking garages + parking meters into a contract that you can farm out for bid for 20 some odd years or so so that you can have another guaranteed revenue source, and create a parking lot tax so that all private lots wouldn't end up pricing out the publicly owned lots.  Or hell, figure out what would happen if we file for Chapter 9 bankruptcy.  But above all, don't do things that are going to subsidize parking.

I don't mean to kick a man when he's down, but with all these problems I'll probably get my money out of the city sooner than later. For years, they beefed up the system by taking retirement out of the paychecks of part-time employees like lifeguards who had little chance of making city employment a career and often would forget about that money. I always said we (lifeguards) were supporting the garbagefolks of previous generations.

 

Another option the city might have to look at it is to sell the whole system to OPERS along with some long-term assets that lets the state manage the system. It may be too much for the city to handle alone.

^I completely agree.  The City should get out of the pension business.  It's a no win scenario for them (for the employees too, actually).

Old people will just have to keep working, or the economy collapses. You don't get to work for 35 years and then retire for 35 more, unless you're socking away massive savings.

 

There is no debating this. It's like debating the oxygen supply in a sealed room.

I think a lot of that is police and fire retirements, where they can retire after 20 years.  I don't know if Cincinnati allows it but in some municipalities police or fire can work for 40 years and get double retirement.  I doubt many garbage men make it to age 65, or even 45. 

 

I'm okay with relatively early retirement for police and fire. They work hard for the rest of us. They have a very high likelihoods of life altering disabilities (physical and mental) and don't get paid all that well in their active career. Are those groups both in the city retirement, anyway?

 

I however know a couple of gov't employees (one federal, one city) that retired in their early to mid-50s for no particularly good reason. It just seemed absurd. Teachers fall into this same trap. I think there probably has to be a way to transition worn-out workers into a better situation that isn't quite retirement, but also doesn't let them die in their chairs.

 

The one danger of not pushing folks out of gov't work in a relatively short period of time is that it can become like academia with a kind of tenure that makes effective gov't even more challenging. The bureaucracy can quickly become the enemy of change. If you want to see the long-term effects of that look at Europe, but especially France and Italy. They may certain things to recommend them, but the effectiveness of their bureaucracy is not one.

It doesn't matter how heroic the job is. Demographic realities prevent a solvent retirement system as we know it.

 

And on that note, let's try to get back on topic! (I know there's not too much to talk about while we wait for the next funding announcement.)

From what I saw today there was a lot of support for rail at the neighborhood summit.

It doesn't matter how heroic the job is. Demographic realities prevent a solvent retirement system as we know it.

 

And on that note, let's try to get back on topic! (I know there's not too much to talk about while we wait for the next funding announcement.)

 

Isn't local government financing and planning between different parts of the government on topic? 

 

It's not simply knee-jerk conservatives who want to kill the Streetcar because Cincinnati is conservative.  There are plenty of local entrenched interests who are indifferent to the Streetcar one way or the other so long as it doesn't stop them from getting theirs.  I think the selling City owned parking lots is the worst news for the Streetcar since Issue 9 got on the ballot.  But I suppose the relevance of identifying those interests is a question for the moderators to decide.

^ I have edited the above post to remove needless testing of Mods' authority, while preserving the relevant parts of the response.

 

We hope you're enjoying your stay at UrbanOhio. Have a great day. :)

^ I have edited the above post to remove needless testing of Mods' authority, while preserving the relevant parts of the response.

 

We hope you're enjoying your stay at UrbanOhio. Have a great day. :)

 

Though I'm a relative newcomer to this forum, I find the edit to be done in very poor taste (yes I did see LincolnKennedy's unedited post).  The patronizing attitude is very disturbing as well.  Shall I be edited into oblivion next? 

Though I'm a relative newcomer to this forum, I find the edit to be done in very poor taste (yes I did see LincolnKennedy's unedited post).  The patronizing attitude is very disturbing as well.  Shall I be edited into oblivion next? 

 

If you challenge a moderator's authority to edit posts and keep threads on topic, yes.

Saying it should be ok for the discussion to wander a little bit isn't a "challenge to authority."  I'll admit that many of the topics here have a strong tendency to go off on tangents, but that's not a fault of the people, it's the nature of the issues that are being discussed.  You can't have a meaningful discussion about the streetcar without getting into things like capital funds, property taxes, neighborhood development, zoning, municipal budgets, electricity generation sources, underground utilities, overhead utilities, visual clutter, parking garages, etc. 

Guys and gals, we do this to keep this thread manageable. The Cincinnati Streetcar thread, despite any real construction, is well over 300 pages. I can't imagine what this thread size would be if work actually began. With threads of this size and magnitude, there is less leeway on off-topic discussions because that can be done elsewhere -- we have countless threads that involve the state of the city's finances, light rail, and the like that one could put, "See this thread for more information." That's all. It helps keep this thread lean, on-topic and on-discussion about the streetcar -- anything else can and will be moved generally with notice or notification.

 

That said, patronizing moderators and administrators in any general sense is just poor taste. Please don't do that. Such posts will either be edited to comply with the forum rules, or removed if they are entirely off-topic. Thanks.

Actually, I'll bet that once construction starts, the discussion will slow down a lot.  Aside from occasional photos of progress (which I bet are going to be great...there's some cool shit for them to dig up in these old streets), there's not going to be much more theorizing on route changes, stop locations, political posturing, etc. 

You sure? Look at what happened when the 3C project received funding to start construction. That thread went crazy with debate over what the service should actually look like. It might happen here, too.