So Eighth and State says there is a trend of more young people buying homes in suburbs, but Uber says its not a trend because a trend involves changes over time.

 

Then he says that there is a DEFINITE trend of more people moving to OTR at the MOMENT.

 

I'm so confused, I guess changes over time really just means MOMENTS when it supports your argument!

Suburbs Losing Young Whites To Cities, Brookings Institution Finds

 

WASHINGTON - White flight? In a reversal, America's suburbs are now more likely to be home to minorities, the poor and a rapidly growing older population as many younger, educated whites move to cities for jobs and shorter commutes.

 

An analysis of 2000-2008 census data by the Brookings Institution highlights the demographic "tipping points" seen in the past decade and the looming problems in the 100 largest metropolitan areas, which represent two-thirds of the U.S. population.

 

[...]

 

"A new image of urban America is in the making," said William H. Frey, a demographer at Brookings who co-wrote the report. "What used to be white flight to the suburbs is turning into 'bright flight' to cities that have become magnets for aspiring young adults who see access to knowledge-based jobs, public transportation and a new city ambiance as an attraction."

 

"This will not be the future for all cities, but this pattern in front runners like Atlanta, Portland, Ore., Raleigh, N.C., and Austin, Texas, shows that the old urban stereotypes no longer apply," he said.

 

[emphasis added]

 

In Over-the-Rhine, Cincinnati has a neighborhood that those "front runner" cities like Portland and Austin would kill to have. If Cincinnati wants to join the front-runners as a destination for "bright flight", then maximizing assets of OTR and other core neighborhoods is the only way to do it. Building the streetcar is the best way to maximize those assets.

So Eighth and State says there is a trend of more young people buying homes in suburbs, but Uber says its not a trend because a trend involves changes over time.

 

Then he says that there is a DEFINITE trend of more people moving to OTR at the MOMENT.

 

I'm so confused, I guess changes over time really just means MOMENTS when it supports your argument!

 

Natininja said it best for me, but...

 

There can be trends that persist for long time periods, such as long term trending upwards or downwards in the stock market.  There can be relatively instantaneous changes in direction that indicate the start of a trend.  I guess that the time frame that something needs to have changed direction, before one calls that change a trend, is variable between individuals, and we have to live with that.

 

I think that the number of employed people living in OTR has increased consistently enough to be called a trend.  My point was that any reasonable person needs to be able to admit that, even though still much larger numbers of such people are living in suburbs.

 

The repopulation of OTR will happen, and it will obviously be helped by the development of the streetcar.  Hence, the resistance to and denigration of the streetcar concept.

Newsmakers May 30 Part One: Streetcar Funding

18 minutes, 50 seconds

 

http://www.local12.com/mediacenter/local.aspx?videoId=47157%40wkrc.web.entriq.net&navCatId=86

 

Luken said he forgot about the newsmaker interview and "didn't have transportation" to get to the TV station to discuss the streetcar project. How ironic.

Newsmakers May 30 Part One: Streetcar Funding

18 minutes, 50 seconds

 

http://www.local12.com/mediacenter/local.aspx?videoId=47157%40wkrc.web.entriq.net&navCatId=86

 

Luken said he forgot about the newsmaker interview and "didn't have transportation" to get to the TV station to discuss the streetcar project. How ironic.

 

Wow. Don't know quite what to say about this. Kinda feel sorry for the guy, unless this was premeditated. But why?

Newsmakers May 30 Part One: Streetcar Funding

18 minutes, 50 seconds

 

http://www.local12.com/mediacenter/local.aspx?videoId=47157%40wkrc.web.entriq.net&navCatId=86

 

Luken said he forgot about the newsmaker interview and "didn't have transportation" to get to the TV station to discuss the streetcar project. How ironic.

 

Great piece and it was nice to hear a coherent everywoman (albeit someone on city council) be a proponent without Grandpa Simpson interrupting.  The interviewer did ask some "difficult" questions in lieu of Luken. 

Just returned from leading a bunch of Cincinnatians to Portland to see the streetcar -- 402 of us have now done this. Next trip is October 22nd if anyone's interested.

 

We met with Charlie Hales of HDR, who is working on our project and ones in several other cities. He says Cincinnati's chances are excellent for success in the next round of Federal funding, which is going to happen sooner that you think. He names Salt Lake City, Fort Lauderdale and Fort Worth as likely recipients too.

 

Some interesting info: remember that $23 million that Dallas got for its streetcar in Tiger 1 along with Portland, New Orleans and Tucson? Remember how no one could figure that out since no one knew anything about Dallas' plan? Turns out, Dallas never had a viable streetcar plan, and now they're going to have to give the money back. I'm guessing Fort Worth tries to grab it.

 

Charlie stressed to be prepared for and embrace unexpected happenings on account of the streetcar. For example, he recounts a meeting with a social service activist who vigorously opposed the streetcar in Portland prior to its construction (Justin Jeffre still reading this blog?). He ran into her after the line had been in operation for a while, and she apologized profusely and thanked him for his leadership on the issue. Turns out -- and this is no surprise to anyone who's been on any of our Portland trips recently -- people with disabilities are moving in large numbers to the streetcar line, and this has made life a lot easier for them and has reduced the public cost of providing transportation for them.

 

Also, Portland's 200-foot blocks have produced another unintended consequence. The resulting building floor plates are too small to work for national retailers, especially after accounting for elevator and stairwell shafts and parking garage entrances. So developers found themselves stuck with a bunch of small spaces that, for a while, appeared to be unrentable.

 

But the small spaces were the ideal sizes for restaurants. And the restaurant scene in Portland is exploding partly as a result. New chefs get trained in the more established restaurants and then go out and start their own. They lease old garages, buildings, whatever, with no obvious use in order to get their start.

 

 

 

 

On the topic of young professionals wanting to live in cities and without cars, I can provide a personal anecdote.  I'm a recent graduate of a prominent program at UC (within last few years) and began my career in Cincinnati.  My office was in Blue Ash.  As I began to look for other jobs, a number of opportunities presented themselves, all of which were outside of the CBD.

 

I lived in the city for my entire adult life after having been raised in the suburbs and wanted nothing more than to be able to walk, ride my bike, or take public transit to work.  Unfortunately, I found myself reverse commuting and had no viable options to avoid it.

 

Ultimately, I found a great job in NYC and jumped at the opportunity.  I don't have a car and VERY rarely have a need for one.  When I do, I get a Zipcar.  I love and miss Cincinnati and intend to return eventually, but the ability to live in a walkable environment with effective public transit ultimately led me to look elsewhere.  Before anyone says, "well you're just one person," I know a number of people who have relocated to other cities for reasons very similar to mine.  We by no means constitute the majority of young professionals, but I'd argue that we constitute a much greater percentage of total young professionals than we would have 10 years ago.

 

  ^---- Maybe instead of targeting young professionals, streetcar supporters should target employers for relocation to the city.

 

    The city, in fact, does the opposite. By enacting anti-business policies such as the earnings tax, minimum wage, small business and minority requirements, etc., they push businesses to suburban locations with more business-friendly policies. Plus, the city subsidizes suburban development.

Just returned from leading a bunch of Cincinnatians to Portland to see the streetcar -- 402 of us have now done this. Next trip is October 22nd if anyone's interested.

 

We met with Charlie Hales of HDR, who is working on our project and ones in several other cities. He says Cincinnati's chances are excellent for success in the next round of Federal funding, which is going to happen sooner that you think. He names Salt Lake City, Fort Lauderdale and Fort Worth as likely recipients too.

 

Some interesting info: remember that $23 million that Dallas got for its streetcar in Tiger 1 along with Portland, New Orleans and Tucson? Remember how no one could figure that out since no one knew anything about Dallas' plan? Turns out, Dallas never had a viable streetcar plan, and now they're going to have to give the money back. I'm guessing Fort Worth tries to grab it.

 

Charlie stressed to be prepared for and embrace unexpected happenings on account of the streetcar. For example, he recounts a meeting with a social service activist who vigorously opposed the streetcar in Portland prior to its construction (Justin Jeffre still reading this blog?). He ran into her after the line had been in operation for a while, and she apologized profusely and thanked him for his leadership on the issue. Turns out -- and this is no surprise to anyone who's been on any of our Portland trips recently -- people with disabilities are moving in large numbers to the streetcar line, and this has made life a lot easier for them and has reduced the public cost of providing transportation for them.

 

Also, Portland's 200-foot blocks have produced another unintended consequence. The resulting building floor plates are too small to work for national retailers, especially after accounting for elevator and stairwell shafts and parking garage entrances. So developers found themselves stuck with a bunch of small spaces that, for a while, appeared to be unrentable.

 

But the small spaces were the ideal sizes for restaurants. And the restaurant scene in Portland is exploding partly as a result. New chefs get trained in the more established restaurants and then go out and start their own. They lease old garages, buildings, whatever, with no obvious use in order to get their start.

 

John, all this sounds great. I really hope your sources are correct. I would love to hear some news about funding soon to brighten up the summer:)

I know this has been asked before and is hard to accurately predict, but what are the chances this project could actually start construction soon assuming we get the funding we need? Is it possible we may see a ground breaking ceremony this year?

^

They will order streetcars and start moving manholes soon after they get another slug of money. I bet we'll start to see things happen by Labor Day.

I hope somebody books Neon's or Arnold's far in advance. That's going to be a hell of a party after the groundbreaking ceremony.

^

Great American Ball Park

<a href="http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2012003618_streetcarbikes02m.html">Bicyclists sue Seattle over crashes on streetcar tracks</a>

Six bicyclists have sued the city of Seattle, claiming that the South Lake Union streetcar tracks caused them to crash and that the city knowingly allowed the unsafe conditions

 

....The lawsuit, filed last week, alleges that streetcar-planning documents alerted the city to the dangers a bike ban or different track placement were possible responses, but were not taken. The city did add warning signs soon after the grand opening and several bike crashes.

 

Ninth Avenue has been re-striped and converted into the city's official bike route, but many riders still use Westlake, now a two-way street.

 

For the future First Hill Streetcar, to open in 2013, city officials including Melone are designing trackways toward the center, where possible, to enhance bike safety.

 

The reader's comments on this article are overwhelmingly negative towards the cyclists.

Cyclists ride where it is the most convenient. I'm not familiar with the street grid mentioned in the article, but if there are enough cyclists that still use Westlake over Ninth, then there is sufficient demand on both routes for cyclists (or the official bike route is just underused and less desirable for whatever reason). The issue with bikes and tracks is not unique to just the streetcars; cyclists must take notice and slow at all track crossings because how you react to them depends on your tires, any friction on the tracks (e.g. some grit, gravel, dirt), the wetness and et. al.

 

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=portland,+or&sll=39.136111,-84.503056&sspn=0.303047,0.727158&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Portland,+Multnomah,+Oregon&ll=45.494131,-122.67167&spn=0.000756,0.001931&t=o&z=20

In this case, if a cyclist was to turn left onto SW Lowell, they would need to cross the tracks at a 45-degree angle to properly cross and not crash so they could jump into the leftmost lane. I've done a departure at this angle before when the tracks were a little more wet and ended up crashing on my road bike, so it is not a guarantee.

These bicyclists need to get a life.  They have a long history in Seattle of using the streetcar to get attention.  It has nothing whatsoever to do with the danger the tracks pose, since Westlake is part of a grid and they can easily take a parallel street.  Further, the tracks only pose a threat to racing bike tires, as do sewer grates citywide.   

 

I can't wait for bicycling advocates in Cincinnati to go nuts over the tracks in the Vine St. hill, acting as though there is no way to safely descend the hill, and completely denying the presence of Clifton Ave. or any number of other ways to go downtown from the UC area. 

 

^

I'm hearing that Clifton Avenue is back in the game for the route to Uptown. Whether it's just window-dressing or really a viable alternative, I dunno. But I do know there is a general distaste for Vine.

The streetcar has been in planning for years, and we STILL don't have a definite route?? How does that look to the Feds?

John, you seem to be the only one who has a real distaste for Vine.  With all the problems there may be, it's still the most direct and least steep route, and it's also the only one that wouldn't require some sort of east-west jog upon reaching McMillan. 

It has nothing whatsoever to do with the danger the tracks pose, since Westlake is part of a grid and they can easily take a parallel street. Further, the tracks only pose a threat to racing bike tires, as do sewer grates citywide.

 

I can't wait for bicycling advocates in Cincinnati to go nuts over the tracks in the Vine St. hill, acting as though there is no way to safely descend the hill, and completely denying the presence of Clifton Ave. or any number of other ways to go downtown from the UC area.

 

You are looking at 200 ft. blocks, versus a long runaround in Cincinnati, depending on the location. Clifton's grade is much more steep than Vine, and there are few UC cyclists who use that over Vine. Not even the cycling team that I've run with uses Clifton. That leaves Ravine and Sycamore, both of which are not good routes. Descending is vine, ascending is another matter.

 

For the basin, there are alternatives but it depends on the one-way street grid. Sometimes you can get away with going a 1/2 block as a detour, other times it is 2 blocks. It's not as direct and cyclists in general really want to get from point A to B in the most direct and efficient manner possible.

 

Tires makes up a main difference. Racing tires (or skinny tires in general) can get lodged in the tracks and can cause a spill, especially if you are locked into your pedals. I've used both of my bikes -- one is a racing bike, the other has slightly thicker tires, and I've been stuck on the tracks before. I've not yet been stuck in a grate, since the city has done a decent job of reworking most.

John, you seem to be the only one who has a real distaste for Vine. With all the problems there may be, it's still the most direct and least steep route, and it's also the only one that wouldn't require some sort of east-west jog upon reaching McMillan.

I'm just willing to verbalize it. Trust me, there are real doubts about Vine Street.

My proposed solution to any bicycle/streetcar conflicts on vine st. hill:

Dig a tunnel or go up Reading or Gilbert.  Vine St, Clifton St, Sycamore are all going to cause problems.  I'm tired of all of 'em I tell ya!

John, you seem to be the only one who has a real distaste for Vine.  With all the problems there may be, it's still the most direct and least steep route, and it's also the only one that wouldn't require some sort of east-west jog upon reaching McMillan. 

I'm just willing to verbalize it. Trust me, there are real doubts about Vine Street.

 

So, there is no official route or study on the entire routing yet? I thought that some had settled upon Vine, but if not, at what stage is the project at? Is there an official route map, planning document or something more than preliminary? This back-and-forth on Vine versus Clifton is pretty archaic.

If one were to cycle a significant distance parallel to the track, thus posing a real nuisance to the cyclist, couldn't they just ride the streetcar? As a cyclist I would actually *rather* take the streetcar up the hill and then be on my way when it got to the top. Down, maybe not worth waiting for the next car. I might take a parallel route. There are options. It's not leaving anyone up shit creek.

 

If Clifton is much more steep than Vine and would be a difficult route for someone on a bicycle, where does that leave the streetcar? I think the whole basin should be transit rich and a full two-way grid. It should be the one part of Cincinnati where automobile mobility is last on the list. Ped>Transit>Bike>Auto. But that's just me.

Bikes are fine and all, but certainly don't deserve priority routing versus mass transit, particularly with regard to getting up hills.  I rode a bike as my primary mode of transportation between the ages of 7 & 18, and it never seemed that hard to avoid shit in the street that will make you crash, and I always considered it my responsibility to avoid such hazards.

 

Free transit up and down the hill with a bike seems like a reasonable solution.

While there may be some people bike riding up and down Vine who'd just as well take the streetcar, I highly doubt you're going to get more than a very small fraction of people who'd even consider it at all.  The regular bike commuters who are strong riders, or the UC team out for training, fitness buffs, or anyone who's even a remotely serious rider would not be at all interested in riding the streetcar up or down the hill, even if the timing was perfect and there was no waiting.  Climbing hills is tough, but it's fantastic exercise, and flying down smooth hills is fun. 

In all honesty if I was a beginner biking to work, the streetcar would definitely be an option.  Bike mounts on buses are intimidating to the novice.

this is much easier than the metro racks

^

Hey, that's my pic!

 

 

this is much easier than the metro racks

 

Cmon Federal funding!

 

While there may be some people bike riding up and down Vine who'd just as well take the streetcar, I highly doubt you're going to get more than a very small fraction of people who'd even consider it at all. The regular bike commuters who are strong riders, or the UC team out for training, fitness buffs, or anyone who's even a remotely serious rider would not be at all interested in riding the streetcar up or down the hill, even if the timing was perfect and there was no waiting. Climbing hills is tough, but it's fantastic exercise, and flying down smooth hills is fun.

 

Unfortunately for this point of view, fun, exercise and a mad rush aren't high on the priority list for transportation planning.

 

  Getting thrown off of a bicycle going downhill at speed is the worst hazard to bicyclists. They just won't be able to coast down Vine Street any more.

When going down Vine, I tend to stick to the left lane because of the parked cars in the right, and because I can travel down at over 35 MPH easy. I fear that if the streetcar alignment sticks to Vine (who knows at this point), then it will restrict cyclist's ability to use that to go down (or up) without being thrown off in the tracks.

^^ I thought getting "doored" by a parked car was the worst hazard to bicyclists. :evil: Are tracks in the street really that big of a deal?  Portland has tracks everywhere and more bicyclists than I've ever seen.  Doesn't seem to be too much of a problem there.

When going down Vine, I tend to stick to the left lane because of the parked cars in the right, and because I can travel down at over 35 MPH easy. I fear that if the streetcar alignment sticks to Vine (who knows at this point), then it will restrict cyclist's ability to use that to go down (or up) without being thrown off in the tracks.

 

oh well. Sounds like the 35(?) or so bicyclists in the area that travel down Vine at speeds in excess of 35mph are going to be inconvenienced.

^Yeah, you can't please everyone.  Honestly, I'm not even sure why bicyclists are even getting so much attention in regards to the streetcar.  They represent only a small faction of people, yet it seems like the city is bending over backwards for them all the time.  I guess it's because biking is seen as a cool or hip thing these days, even though Cincinnati's topography and climate severely limit those able or willing to use their bike in place of a car.

 

  Does Portland have anything comparable to Vine Street?

 

  If I remember right, Jake posted a photo of a bicycle crossing a streetcar rail at a slow speed, and there was no problem. A bicycle tire getting stuck in a streetcar rail at 35 mph is probably the most dangerous thing associated with streetcar rails that I can think of.

 

  That said, I didn't know that Vine Street was some major bicycle corridor.

Crossing tracks at a perpendicular angle isn't a problem, but a bike going straight while rails turn (or vice versa) could be a bit hairy.  The real issue with Vine Street, as would be the case with all the roads up the hill, is that with the on-street parking there's only one lane left for the streetcar and bikes, and riding parallel to the rails in the same lane is the most dangerous situation.  Now, I tend to agree that Vine is not a particularly important bike route, and I've never had any reason to go from Uptown to Downtown that way myself, though I know some do.  I doubt there would be any issue with cyclists climbing Vine because the speed would be rather slow in that case.  It's also not a great street for a fast and furious descent either, due to the blind curves and parked cars.  I think it'll be a case where anyone riding downhill will just have to hit the brakes a bit more and take it easy. 

^Yeah, you can't please everyone.  Honestly, I'm not even sure why bicyclists are even getting so much attention in regards to the streetcar.  They represent only a small faction of people, yet it seems like the city is bending over backwards for them all the time.  I guess it's because biking is seen as a cool or hip thing these days, even though Cincinnati's topography and climate severely limit those able or willing to use their bike in place of a car.

 

If roadways are designed to be multi-use paths, and the city has only a handful of basin-to-uptown routes -- especially ones that are marked to receive a shared lane or dedicated bike lane, then extra consideration must be made for cyclists who are only growing in numbers in this city. To discount them is foolish and backwards -- and it's not "cool or hip" -- it's healthy, safe and efficient. I guess you can say the same about streetcars -- it's "cool or hip" to spend a major amount of money and not think of the cyclists.

 

And no, Casey, it's more than 35 cyclists on Vine. At any speed, especially when you are adding in a mix of automobile traffic and streetcars, you are putting yourself in danger by mixing in the tracks with bikes. Having a dedicated bike lane, both up and downhill, can help remedy this. I hope they are planning on this if the route takes Vine (or Clifton).

 

  Does Portland have anything comparable to Vine Street?

 

  If I remember right, Jake posted a photo of a bicycle crossing a streetcar rail at a slow speed, and there was no problem. A bicycle tire getting stuck in a streetcar rail at 35 mph is probably the most dangerous thing associated with streetcar rails that I can think of.

 

  That said, I didn't know that Vine Street was some major bicycle corridor.

Portland has hills comparable to Vine Street, but they've been smart enough not to put streetcars on them.

Tom Luken Letter to the Enquirer:

 

I accept, gratefully, guest columnist Casey Coston’s undeserved accolade  as lone vocal opponent  (“Streetcar poll biased, misleading ,” May 30) , even though it just ain’t so. What about the 10/1 against streetcars in the newspaper’s incoming, unsolicited mail? Many, many opponents.

 

    There are precious few of us left who labored to get the behemoths off the streets and unsnarl the traffic. In the old days if we missed the bus to school (a 30 minute ride ), it took 11/2 hours on the streetcar, even 2 hours if the trolley wires got snarled, as usually occurred. These young whippersnappers at City Hall, whose main objective is to prevent citizens from getting to vote on streetcars, might benefit from a little wisdom from their elders.

 

Tom Luken

 

College Hill

 

Purcell High, class of ‘42

 

http://cincinnati.com/blogs/letters/2010/06/02/tom-luken-recalls-streetcars/#pluckcomments

 

Does he realize the streetcars of old are completely different than of today?

Portland has hills comparable to Vine Street, but they've been smart enough not to put streetcars on them.

 

What do they do with them then?

^

Except for one very short section that approaches 8%, all 7.9 miles of Portland's streetcar track are on flat land. They have specifically excluded Southwest Portland from ever getting streetcar service because of the hills there.

 

Just the way it is.

Tom Luken Letter to the Enquirer:

 

I accept, gratefully, guest columnist Casey Costons undeserved accolade as lone vocal opponent (Streetcar poll biased, misleading , May 30) , even though it just aint so. What about the 10/1 against streetcars in the newspapers incoming, unsolicited mail? Many, many opponents.

 

  There are precious few of us left who labored to get the behemoths off the streets and unsnarl the traffic. In the old days if we missed the bus to school (a 30 minute ride ), it took 11/2 hours on the streetcar, even 2 hours if the trolley wires got snarled, as usually occurred. These young whippersnappers at City Hall, whose main objective is to prevent citizens from getting to vote on streetcars, might benefit from a little wisdom from their elders.

 

Tom Luken

 

College Hill

 

Purcell High, class of 42

 

http://cincinnati.com/blogs/letters/2010/06/02/tom-luken-recalls-streetcars/#pluckcomments

 

Does he realize the streetcars of old are completely different than of today?

 

My response to it, sent to Enquirer this afternoon:

 

 

 

Tom Luken's complaint about the "young whippersnappers" behind the Cincinnati Streetcar is a tad off the mark. Introduced to Cincinnatians by three "fifty-somethings" several years ago, the streetcar has now become the vanguard of a multi-generation effort aimed at restoring balance and increasing travel choices in our region. Streetcar supporters range from teenagers to seniors well into their Eighties.

 

Modern streetcars bear no resemblance to the vintage trolleys Mr. Luken remembers, just as a 1940 Packard is fundamentally different from a 2010 Prius. Modern streetcars have six doors; these enable them to load and unload faster, so they hold up traffic less than buses do. The overhead power wire is barely visible and doesn't spark like the ones you see in the movies. Modern streetcars are sleek, quiet, smooth-running and comfortable -- a joy to ride and to have in your neighborhood.

 

Don't believe it? Go to the "PICS" section of http://www.protransit.com/ and watch the brief slide show there. You'll like what you see.

 

John Schneider

 

Downtown

 

 

 

 

 

^

Except for one very short section that approaches 8%, all 7.9 miles of Portland's streetcar track are on flat land. They have specifically excluded Southwest Portland from ever getting streetcar service because of the hills there.

 

Just the way it is.

 

Then since we've got hills in our relevant business areas, I guess going up Vine is just the way we've got to get it done here.

Portland also has these delightful "remember to be careful" signs all around downtown along the streetcar and MAX routes.  I would think Cincinnati will invest in a few for their line.

 

 

  ^---- Good thing that biker remembered to wear his helmet.

Portland also has these delightful "remember to be careful" signs all around downtown along the streetcar and MAX routes. I would think Cincinnati will invest in a few for their line.

 

 

I don't think it was the tracks that made him crash but the lack of a front wheel on the bike

^Yeah, you can't please everyone. Honestly, I'm not even sure why bicyclists are even getting so much attention in regards to the streetcar. They represent only a small faction of people, yet it seems like the city is bending over backwards for them all the time. I guess it's because biking is seen as a cool or hip thing these days, even though Cincinnati's topography and climate severely limit those able or willing to use their bike in place of a car.

 

If roadways are designed to be multi-use paths, and the city has only a handful of basin-to-uptown routes -- especially ones that are marked to receive a shared lane or dedicated bike lane, then extra consideration must be made for cyclists who are only growing in numbers in this city. To discount them is foolish and backwards -- and it's not "cool or hip" -- it's healthy, safe and efficient. I guess you can say the same about streetcars -- it's "cool or hip" to spend a major amount of money and not think of the cyclists.

 

And no, Casey, it's more than 35 cyclists on Vine. At any speed, especially when you are adding in a mix of automobile traffic and streetcars, you are putting yourself in danger by mixing in the tracks with bikes. Having a dedicated bike lane, both up and downhill, can help remedy this. I hope they are planning on this if the route takes Vine (or Clifton).

 

Actually, do you really think there are more than maybe 50 people who bike up and down Vine on a regular basis? A few people I know attended the "bike and dine" thing recently, and I don't think even 50 people attended.

 

Of the people I know who are avid bike riders, I must respectfully say that I think some of them are "bike people" the same way that some people are "train people" or like the majority of Americans are "car people." They love them so much (and in the case of bike riding, the accompanying endorphin high of exercise) that they become somewhat irrational when defending or justifying their use or their priority in the transportation hierarchy.

 

Anyhow, in my opinion, bike lanes in a Vine Street redesign: rational. Opposing the streetcar route because of bike safety: irrational.