>This is incredible!

 

I haven't heard anything from them after sending them a "your voices" column rebuking Tom Luken.  It's not as if they're getting inundated with "your voices" columns. 

Did you notice that they have already changed the headline and sub-headline? It's been changed on the Main Page too.

Once you get into comment land the old headline is still there.

Relaxing zoning requirements should have COA T, the Libertarians & other free marketers overjoyed.

Haven't heard anything, tho.

strange

 

    It's been slow on UO so I pulled up this quote from the archives.

 

  "At a time when the need to conserve fuel is an economic as well as an environmental necessity, mass transit and how best to embrace it it poses major questions for this region. The time for talk is now because the time for action rapidly approaches."

 

Cincinnati Post 5-3-1975.  :mrgreen:

 

 

I have not been following this blog recently (sorry)...does anyone know when Cincy will learn if they will receive money from the govt to support the streetcar?

^ This week.

West Sacremento officials think soon- http://www.sacbee.com/2010/06/21/2836420/west-sacramento-holds-big-hopes.html

Update on street car project expected Monday

Posted: Jun 21, 2010 7:24 AM EDT

Updated: Jun 21, 2010 7:42 AM EDT

 

CINCINNATI (FOX19) - City leaders are expected to give an update on the Cincinnati Streetcar system Monday.

 

The City Budget and Finance Committee will hold a special meeting at noon and will likely have a status report on the project.

 

http://www.fox19.com/Global/story.asp?S=12680939

West Sacremento officials think soon- http://www.sacbee.com/2010/06/21/2836420/west-sacramento-holds-big-hopes.html

 

Compare this story to any in the Enquirer. The difference is shocking. It also only has three comments. All positive and well informed.

http://www.wlwt.com/news/23977450/detail.html

 

Will Cincinnati Get Federal Funding For Streetcar?

 

City Manager: Answer Could Come In Next 10 Days

Cincy Council gets streetcar update

 

Cincinnati administrators are now providing monthly updates to City Council on plans to build a streetcar system. The first briefing was Monday at City Hall.

 

Right now the city’s efforts are focused on several areas.

 

One is finding the money to build the first phase of the streetcar system.

 

The city has identified $90 million of the $128 million needed for construction.

 

Chris Eilerman with the city manager’s office says the city could hear any day if it will get a $25 million federal grant for the project....

http://www.wvxu.org/news/wvxunews_article.asp?ID=7921

 

 

http://www.wlwt.com/news/23977450/detail.html

 

Will Cincinnati Get Federal Funding For Streetcar?

 

City Manager: Answer Could Come In Next 10 Days

 

From the comments:

 

I truly HOPE & PRAY NOT!! The gay mayor has his gay mind in the wrong place. This city is in such disaray and distress it's horrible. This is the only city that does not have a McDonald's downtown. Where the is there to ride the Streetcar to? Be serious. There is already the joke of Cincinnati hosting a casino, this lame, deadwood town. Please........

 

Jun. 21, 2010 3:44pm EDT | from Careless

Just to reiterate:

 

A Sacramento comment on the streetcar:

"What a great concept. Shows how a smaller sized community can think big and act effectively. This could certainly spruce up and incentivise West Sac. Notice how Sac is still trying to figure it out."

 

A Cincinnati comment on the streetcar:

"I truly HOPE & PRAY NOT!! The gay mayor has his gay mind in the wrong place. This city is in such disaray and distress it's horrible. This is the only city that does not have a McDonald's downtown. Where the is there to ride the Streetcar to? Be serious. There is already the joke of Cincinnati hosting a casino, this lame, deadwood town."

 

 

 

 

 

Just to reiterate:

 

A Sacramento comment on the streetcar:

"What a great concept. Shows how a smaller sized community can think big and act effectively. This could certainly spruce up and incentivise West Sac. Notice how Sac is still trying to figure it out."

 

A Cincinnati comment on the streetcar:

"I truly HOPE & PRAY NOT!! The gay mayor has his gay mind in the wrong place. This city is in such disaray and distress it's horrible. This is the only city that does not have a McDonald's downtown. Where the is there to ride the Streetcar to? Be serious. There is already the joke of Cincinnati hosting a casino, this lame, deadwood town."

 

 

 

 

 

 

there are equally dumb comments on every paper's website.

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20100621/NEWS0108/6220335/City-Streetcar-work-won-t-be-wasted

 

 

City officials: Streetcar work won't be wasted

 

Just to reiterate:

 

A Sacramento comment on the streetcar:

"What a great concept. Shows how a smaller sized community can think big and act effectively. This could certainly spruce up and incentivise West Sac. Notice how Sac is still trying to figure it out."

 

A Cincinnati comment on the streetcar:

"I truly HOPE & PRAY NOT!! The gay mayor has his gay mind in the wrong place. This city is in such disaray and distress it's horrible. This is the only city that does not have a McDonald's downtown. Where the is there to ride the Streetcar to? Be serious. There is already the joke of Cincinnati hosting a casino, this lame, deadwood town."

 

 

 

 

 

 

there are equally dumb comments on every paper's website.

 

Oh really? Not today. Of the six comments on the Sacramento Bee, all are positive. Of the eight comments on the Cincinnati Enquirer, all but one are negative.

 

One could point to a number of actual factors involved, not to mention my example is almost anecdotal. Regardless, the big difference in attitude fascinates me academically.

Just to reiterate:

 

A Sacramento comment on the streetcar:

"What a great concept. Shows how a smaller sized community can think big and act effectively. This could certainly spruce up and incentivise West Sac. Notice how Sac is still trying to figure it out."

 

A Cincinnati comment on the streetcar:

"I truly HOPE & PRAY NOT!! The gay mayor has his gay mind in the wrong place. This city is in such disaray and distress it's horrible. This is the only city that does not have a McDonald's downtown. Where the is there to ride the Streetcar to? Be serious. There is already the joke of Cincinnati hosting a casino, this lame, deadwood town."

 

 

 

 

 

 

there are equally dumb comments on every paper's website.

 

Oh really? Not today. Of the six comments on the Sacramento Bee, all are positive. Of the eight comments on the Cincinnati Enquirer, all but one are negative.

 

One could point to a number of actual factors involved, not to mention my example is almost anecdotal. Regardless, the big difference in attitude fascinates me academically.

 

Any updates on the route to uptown?  Does the uncertainty have any effect on the Tiger 2 grants?  Is it still between Vine and West Clifton?

I don't mean to be rude, but both the Cincinnati Enquirer AND the WVXU articles linked in the post mention that the two routes being considered to uptown are Vine and Clifton.

http://www.wlwt.com/news/23977450/detail.html

 

Will Cincinnati Get Federal Funding For Streetcar?

 

City Manager: Answer Could Come In Next 10 Days

 

From the comments:

 

I truly HOPE & PRAY NOT!! The gay mayor has his gay mind in the wrong place. This city is in such disaray and distress it's horrible. This is the only city that does not have a McDonald's downtown. Where the is there to ride the Streetcar to? Be serious. There is already the joke of Cincinnati hosting a casino, this lame, deadwood town. Please........

 

Jun. 21, 2010 3:44pm EDT | from Careless

 

This is an example of someone being an idiot on purpose.  It's probably a streetcar supporter, who comes here and gets his laughs off of everyone whining about it.  I don't know why anyone cares.

I don't mean to be rude, but both the Cincinnati Enquirer AND the WVXU articles linked in the post mention that the two routes being considered to uptown are Vine and Clifton.

 

Yes, but the Enquirer has been horrendous at telling the whole story as of late and I've never read anything from WVXU before so I don't know their reliability.  Also, I realize the two routes are being considered from the articles - I just wanted to clarify with people closer to the situation than the Enquirer and/or WVXU about the details

 

  For what it's worth, Cincinnati used to have a McDonalds downtown on 6th street, and it was right in front of a popular bus stop. I remember that the sidewalk in front was usually occupied by panhandlers, and the manager came out often to shoo them off. I wouldn't be surprised if they finally closed due to the panhandling problem. Incidently, a nearby Wendy's also closed.

 

  I'm not a particular fan of McDonalds but it's not half as bad in an urban environment instead of a sprawl environment.

The McDonald's was where the CAC is now but it closed several years before the CAC was built.  There was that brief period of time when the Hustler store was there, which was only about 18 months, and Larry Flynt purposefully put up the cheapest illuminated sign money can buy. 

 

 

 

 

I listen to WVXU almost every morning.  They do a really great job at being objective and usually I end up learning more about the issue than from print or television media.  A few months ago they hosted a debate on the streetcar issue with  Roxanne Qualls and the SORTA guy that opposes the plan.

^the person who opposed the plan is not on the SORTA board at present.

^the person who opposed the plan is not on the SORTA board at present.

Ex-SORTA board member and former failed child actor Stefon Lewis apparently likes to pretend he is still on the Board.  Why that is nobody is quite sure....but he most decidedly not on the SORTA Board.

Looks like the streetcar proposed completion date has been pushed back to 2013. And what is this "redesign" work of Clifton at the curve mid-way up the hill? That part of the roadway was just completely rebuilt from its base-up with CRCP concrete pavement with new drainage...

Yeah... I was kind of wondering the same thing. When they rebuilt the curve, they also made it less sharp... And From what I can tell, the grade from Vine to about Klotter is fairly consistent, so I'm not sure that rebuilding it would help with the grade.

Huh? I'm not referring to one particular individual. It's unfair to criticize what one individual is doing with his life when there are plenty of supporters delivering pizzas or who are unemployed.

 

I'm not sure anyone originally criticized him for delivering pizzas. It was simply noted.  You then got up on a bit of a high horse to point out that there are streetcar supporters who deliver pizzas and/or are unemployed.  Not sure why that matters either, as no one was disparaging them.  I would just drop it.

 

One of the main criticisms of Stefon was he held himself out as a SORTA board member when he was not.  And used that platform to espouse anti-streetcar positions.  They had to basically tell him he couldn't come to SORTA board meetings any longger, as his term had expired (although he continued to show).

To all: Yes, please move on or the topic will be locked.

To return to the topic...

 

They were saying on Fox19 this morning that Dohoney is supposed to announce to the Finance Committee today whether or not the City will receive Federal funding. Is there any truth to this?

To return to the topic...

 

They were saying on Fox19 this morning that Dohoney is supposed to announce to the Finance Committee today whether or not the City will receive Federal funding. Is there any truth to this?

 

They could have misspoken. You'll have to provide a link, if you happen upon one on their site.

It was on the air... I wouldn't be surprised if this was a mistake. It wouldn't be the first time Rob Williams misspoke on the air. There's a link on their site for yesterday's meeting, but nothing regarding today. Probably was a mistake.

So this latest round of grants we are waiting to hear about is for 25 million dollars, correct? If we have 86 million secured, and we win 25 million, that still puts the total at 111 million.  The cost of the system is supposed to be around 120 million, right?  If the city does in fact win the 25m grant, where does the remaining 9 million come from?

So this latest round of grants we are waiting to hear about is for 25 million dollars, correct? If we have 86 million secured, and we win 25 million, that still puts the total at 111 million. The cost of the system is supposed to be around 120 million, right? If the city does in fact win the 25m grant, where does the remaining 9 million come from?

 

I wouldn't doubt if private/corporate investors start coming out of the woodwork in this event.

 

There's also the round 2 TIGER grants TBA in September, I believe.

^It's also possible, given the current economy, that the project could simply come in under-budget, just like The Banks is so far.  $120M is a good estimate, but it's just an estimate.

This has probably been answered before, but...is there any chance the downtown portion will begin operation while the uptown extension is still being built?

^Yes

Thanks for the quick answer. Is it just a chance, or is that generally accepted as the plan?

The downtown/OTR portion could operate as a minimum operable segment.

Thanks for the quick answer. Is it just a chance, or is that generally accepted as the plan?

 

More like a considered guess.

I have been thinking about it and the relative qualifications of streetcar supporters and streetcar opponents are relevant. 

 

Streetcar supporters are not making their arguments based on their personal knowledge, they are basing it on studies and reports done by experts and verified by experts. 

 

Opponents have no underlying supporting data.  They have no studies or reports, over the past three years they haven't refuted the studies that have been conducted.  All of their information is based on their personal knowledge which makes their qualifications relevant.

 

To put it another way, you don't need a Ph. D. in Physics to say Einstein is right, but you need one to say he's wrong.

The problem is, the public won't believe a sober description of these dudes.  True story: The guy who leads the anti-Metro Moves campagin gets convicted of an ethics violation for lying blatantly and repeatedly during the campaign, but like a zombie keeps coming at you, first being appointed to SORTA's board (yes, a decisively anti-transit dude is appointed to the transit board), then repeatedly showing up for meetings after getting kicked off.  He claims to have co-develped the Jarvits artificial heart while really delivering pizzas. 

 

You guys can delete this post from Urban Ohio, but going to be in my book, as are accounts of Finney, the rest of the COAST boys, Chris Smitherman, Tom Luken, Ken Blackwell, and Murray "good government" Seasongood.     

People need to know this stuff.  It needs to be part of the conversation. 

There have been some bad actors along the way. There's a real story there.

People want to know -- "why didn't our subway get finished?...why don't we have better public transportation in this city?".  It's because we got beat by clowns of this type and beat bad.  Each of the countywide transit taxes were voted down at least 60/40.  The only two votes that have won were in the city -- Queen City Metro earnings tax in 1973 and Issue 9 in 2009. 

 

We got beat on the airport bond issues too in the 1950's.  Three bond issues failed that would have made Blue Ash the main airport.  But they all went down hard because clowns were succeeding with their "paper clip" campaigns, as the papers put them -- they fixated on City Hall's paper clip budget and won every time and Cincinnati lost every time. 

 

Looking back, the only big thing we did approve, the 1996 Stadium Tax, was the wrong thing, and that thing passed because they were able to tap into irrational fear. 

 

 

 

 

 

^Great points and observations. This really should be further emphasized at the city. If we want anything transit-oriented done in Cincinnati, we the city must do it ourselves. Otherwise, it's giving someone say on how you should or shouldn't decorate your living room.

I have been thinking about it and the relative qualifications of streetcar supporters and streetcar opponents are relevant. 

 

Streetcar supporters are not making their arguments based on their personal knowledge, they are basing it on studies and reports done by experts and verified by experts. 

 

Opponents have no underlying supporting data.  They have no studies or reports, over the past three years they haven't refuted the studies that have been conducted.  All of their information is based on their personal knowledge which makes their qualifications relevant.

 

To put it another way, you don't need a Ph. D. in Physics to say Einstein is right, but you need one to say he's wrong.

Vlasta Molak has a Ph. D.

I have been thinking about it and the relative qualifications of streetcar supporters and streetcar opponents are relevant.

 

Streetcar supporters are not making their arguments based on their personal knowledge, they are basing it on studies and reports done by experts and verified by experts.

 

Opponents have no underlying supporting data. They have no studies or reports, over the past three years they haven't refuted the studies that have been conducted. All of their information is based on their personal knowledge which makes their qualifications relevant.

 

To put it another way, you don't need a Ph. D. in Physics to say Einstein is right, but you need one to say he's wrong.

Vlasta Molak has a Ph. D.

I think something happened there along the way to the funny farm

Please refrain from personal attacks as we continue this discussion.

 

>This really should be further emphasized at the city.

 

No message sinks in with the public unless it's repeated. Advertisers pay huge money to saturate the environment with repetition of logos and jingles.  The problem with The Enquirer and talk radio is every once in awhile they give the floor to a pro-city voice and think that's enough.  Problem is, the anti-city voice is heard at least ten times as many.   

 

It's not like this everywhere.  I know because I've lived a half dozen other places.  In the South it's the total opposite -- everything about the South and about whatever city you're in is the best.

^

I wonder to what extent the Enquirer makes a region full of grouchy sticks-in-the-mud, versus the other way around.

 

I suspect it's a cycle which can only be broken by outsiders moving in. Fortunately, it seems a critical mass of the grouches have left for the suburbs, so we have a shot at attracting new people to the city with things like the streetcar (to keep it on topic  8-)).

Any idea when this announcement is happening?  I think John said this week - well its Thursday and i'm anxious!