I read it. It had some stuff about John Schneider and the Seattle Streetcar (South Lake Union Streetcar). Horstman came to the surprising conclusion in one section that the streetcar will likely "be neither as wonderful as its supporters claim nor as awful as its detractors warn." No kidding!

I was astonished by how unethical the Forum section was.  Barry Horstman called upon the dependable bottom feeders to attack those who are doers.  Since when should just one reporter write all 5-6 articles in a special section?  It seemed personal to me when Barry Horstman placed a Stephan Louis quote in the feature on John Schneider.  Louis was also quoted in another article in the section. 

 

Links to all of yesterday's articles:

 

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20101011/EDIT03/10100369/Like-it-or-not-streetcar-is-reality

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20101011/EDIT01/10100370/A-reality-check-for-Cincinnati-s-streetcar

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20101011/EDIT03/10100372/Streetcar-a-financial-gamble

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20101011/EDIT03/10100373/John-Schneider-will-be-the-one-to-thank-or-blame-

Thanks for the links Cygnus.

 

I honestly can't stand Horstman's writing.  There is a condescending tone that he knows best throughout the whole piece. 

I thought the articles didn't have very much information in them.  I would have liked to have seen an interview with the construction team and a roadmap from now to when the system is operational. 

I thought the articles didn't have very much information in them. I would have liked to have seen an interview with the construction team and a roadmap from now to when the system is operational.

 

Pshhh- that's crazy talk.  What do you want? Actual unbiased reporting?? Come on.

I actually thought the articles were pretty good and better than I expected.  Avid transit geeks may not have found them to be informative enough but they don't represent the majority of Enquirer subscribers, most of whom are rather clueless about public transit.  While it was an ad hominem dig to characterize some young supporters as glassy-eyed and messianic, I loved when Horstman wrote S. Louis "sniffed" that the streetcar was John Schneider's fantasy.

 

I thought showcasing Brad Thomas (always love his photos) next to Tom Luken was a good illustration of generational differences in attitudes about the project.  Brad won and the tough old pork chop lost.   

 

And even though I'm an ardent supporter, I can't really argue with the notion that it's a gamble.  Only time will truly tell.  Hopefully most of us who've promoted the Cincinnati Streetcar will prove the naysayers wrong and help to assure its success by using it frequently, and/or moving to a residence near the alignment, or maybe even investing in OTR real estate. 

Don't know if you saw it jmecklenborg, but COAST called you a "tool" on this article...Ridiculously juvenile

 

http://news.cincinnati.com/comments/article/20101006/NEWS01/10070331/NAACP-plans-ballot-initiative-on-casino-money

  "I can't really argue with the notion that it's a gamble."

 

  The streetcar project might be a fantastic success or a dismal failure. For this reason, people get emotional about it. If the project had a marginal benefit for a marginal cost, then people wouldn't get so excited about it.

 

 

^ Is I-75 a success or failure?

 

  Too early to tell.

^ Is I-75 a success or failure?

 

It's a success in providing a quick way out of downtown for white suburbanites when the work day is done :)

^ Is I-75 a success or failure?

 

It's a success in providing a quick way out of downtown for white suburbanites when the work day is done :)

 

There... fixed that for you.

>called you a "tool"

 

Yeah I saw that.  On this one they said I'm on the payroll, on another they said I'm poor.  Meanwhile the streetcar is being pushed by the elite to push out the poor. 

 

I don't think this Forum section is going to have much effect.  It was published the same day as the Bengals lost, the Reds were eliminated, and the Iron Horseman biker gang is back in the news. 

Look who's joining the fun:

 

A few cities talking about building streetcars...

 

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/700073403/Salt-Lake-City-leaders-seeking-federal-funds-for-downtown-streetcar-system.html

http://www.tbd.com/blogs/tbd-neighborhoods/2010/10/arlington-alexandria-talk-cash-money-on-the-streetcar-3155.html

http://www.star-telegram.com/2010/10/08/2532946/streetcars-will-take-us-in-the.html

http://www.tucsonsentinel.com/local/report/101210_streetcar

http://www.wtop.com/?nid=25&sid=2072774

Sad to see Salt lake city and Utah ahead of Ohio in commuter rail.

Sad to see Salt lake city and Utah ahead of Ohio in commuter rail.

 

Doesn't surprise me.  The mormons use public transit every day for their missions.  It's a vital tool for the church.

Atlanta is evidently getting $47M for their Streetcar system.

 

http://www.ajc.com/news/rep-lewis-dot-will-683159.html

 

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/700073403/Salt-Lake-City-leaders-seeking-federal-funds-for-downtown-streetcar-system.html

http://www.tbd.com/blogs/tbd-neighborhoods/2010/10/arlington-alexandria-talk-cash-money-on-the-streetcar-3155.html

http://www.star-telegram.com/2010/10/08/2532946/streetcars-will-take-us-in-the.html

http://www.tucsonsentinel.com/local/report/101210_streetcar

http://www.wtop.com/?nid=25&sid=2072774

 

 

I'll say for the record I think Cincinnati's streetcar is going to be considered one of the top streetcar projects, probaly #2 behind Portland.  I don't see any of these as having the same potential. 

 

 

From the article:

 

While Tucson officials hope the project will revitalize the city's downtown, Anthony Rufolo, an urban planning expert in Portland, Ore., said the urban streetcar system in place there hasn't panned out.

 

"Transportation could be provided more effectively and at a lower cost with buses," said Rufolo, a professor of urban studies and planning at Portland State University. "It's been a huge disaster; we are running into a situation where there is no money for buses."

^ He's full of crap. For one thing, the Portland Streetcar is a separate organization from Tri-Met, which provides Portland's bus service.

 

In its four end-to-end route miles, Portland streetcar carries 13,000 daily riders. That's 20% of what our Metro system carries each day in its 400 or so route miles.

Sad to see Salt lake city and Utah ahead of Ohio in commuter rail.

 

Doesn't surprise me. The mormons use public transit every day for their missions. It's a vital tool for the church.

 

Here's what John Schneider would say about this, "I spoke with someone from Salt Lake City about why they have invested in rail and they responded 'Its pretty simple, we care about the future' That about sums it up"

 

 

^ He's full of crap. For one thing, the Portland Streetcar is a separate organization from Tri-Met, which provides Portland's bus service.

 

In its four end-to-end route miles, Portland streetcar carries 13,000 daily riders. That's 20% of what our Metro system carries each day in its 400 or so route miles.

 

What do you think his motivation is to say what they quote?

^ Probably this: there is a cottage industry of rail opponents who live in and around Portland. They make a nice living being based there and flying around the country telling people how bad Portland is. I guess they think because they live there, it gives them extra credibility.

 

Randal O'Toole is the worst. Although he hasn't lived in Portland for a generation -- he lives 150 miles away in the tiny town of Camp Sherman, OR and has a degree in forestry, you'll frequently see him described as "an economist from Portland."

Doesn't surprise me. The mormons use public transit every day for their missions. It's a vital tool for the church.

 

It's also vital for this (yep, that's Salt Lake City, and please note the light-rail line's catenary wire in the photo). How's that for a mission?...

 

 

 

SLC can thank the Olympics for getting their light rail off the ground.  I've taken the light rail there, and it seems to get pretty decent ridership, and the locals love it.  Doesn't surprise me at all that they would be interested in a streetcar.

Doesn't surprise me.  The mormons use public transit every day for their missions.  It's a vital tool for the church.

 

It's also vital for this (yep, that's Salt Lake City, and please note the light-rail line's catenary wire in the photo). How's that for a mission?...

 

 

I call BS on that.

 

Queen City Square had three cranes, and the Banks in Cincinnati had several. All without the presence of catenary wire. When I photographed Lexington on a more regular basis, there were three massive cranes on the new UK Biomedical Biological Sciences Building, which was followed up with three cranes on the new Pharmaceutical Biological Building, and down the street (at the same time) was the mega blue cranes that were building the 12-story hospital complex.

 

Oh, but wait! I see three large cranes at Xavier for the new dormitory/dining complex! And when the Hoff Quad was under construction, we had more cranes going!

 

Without context, KJP, that photograph and it's relation to the streetcar/light rail is completely useless. It's PR bungling at its best.

I posted it with the presumption that most people on this board already knew what was happening development-wise along the rail lines in Salt Lake City, including you. Was I mistaken?

All good. Ohio just has something to build on. It makes you wounder if they even visit other states to see what's going on.

City wants to break ground on streetcar project in November

 

By Barry M. Horstman • [email protected]  • October 15, 2010

 

Cincinnati city officials hope to break ground on the $128 million streetcar project next month, preferably with U.S. Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood among the dignitaries.

 

In e-mails obtained by the Enquirer, City Manager Milton Dohoney Jr. says the groundbreaking ideally should occur after the Nov. 2 election and before the city's formal budget review starts.

 

"I think that gives us about an eight- or nine-day window to play with," Dohoney wrote in a Sept. 16 e-mail sent to about a half dozen people involved with the streetcar project.

^ He's full of crap. For one thing, the Portland Streetcar is a separate organization from Tri-Met, which provides Portland's bus service.

 

In its four end-to-end route miles, Portland streetcar carries 13,000 daily riders. That's 20% of what our Metro system carries each day in its 400 or so route miles.

 

What do you think his motivation is to say what they quote?

 

My guess -- and this is 100% conjecture -- is that Rufolo takes issue with the fact that it can't pay for itself... subsidy-phobia.  Most of the line is within Fareless Square (and the fare boxes are out of order half the time anyway) so it feels free.  I know I never I paid when I lived there (in my defense, however, I usually had a Tri-Met pass which is also good on the streetcar).  Even with sponsorship deals with local businesses, nearly 60% of its operating budget comes from Tri-Met and another 33% from the City.  If you look at his stats, he's trained as an economist and his specialties include (not surprisingly) State & Local Finances and Urban Economics.  It's impossible to deny the massive amounts of development that have occurred along the line since its inception that have greatly benefited the city, so maybe he's simply one of those people that will always think streetcars are a waste.  I wonder what his thoughts are on MAX?

 

Regardless, I couldn't imagine Portland without its streetcar, and I have a feeling that Cincinnatians will quickly feel the same about theirs.

City wants to break ground on streetcar project in November

 

By Barry M. Horstman • [email protected] • October 15, 2010

 

Cincinnati city officials hope to break ground on the $128 million streetcar project next month, preferably with U.S. Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood among the dignitaries.

 

In e-mails obtained by the Enquirer, City Manager Milton Dohoney Jr. says the groundbreaking ideally should occur after the Nov. 2 election and before the city's formal budget review starts.

 

"I think that gives us about an eight- or nine-day window to play with," Dohoney wrote in a Sept. 16 e-mail sent to about a half dozen people involved with the streetcar project.

 

More FUD from the Enquirer, great.

Does anyone actually know Barry Hortsman??  After reading his streetcar articles (he seems to be the official streetcar writer... sarcasm) for just over a year now (I'm new here), I imagine him as this bitter curmudgeon who really liked playing with hot wheels as a kid and not a train set. 

 

Is it normal for the press to get access to many inside emails from the Managers office?  I'm guessing someone forwarded them?

 

What I love about this, is that those emails are in no way different from what you would expect coming from a for profit corporation getting ready to break ground on something, or announce a big new project.  While conservatives often argue for government to run more like a company, the way Hortsman and the Enquirer lay out these quotes imply some sort of false showmanship on the part of the City Managers office.  In actuality, I agree almost entirely with the process. 

 

Unfortunately it's true, that in order to maintain public awareness for the progress of a project (which is especially crucial when the primary print media source in the region is completely against you) you must plan out the presentation very well and ensure that you are making a noticeable impact. 

 

It's like the people who argue, the stimulus is doing nothing and isn't creating any jobs in my area- then when the feds put signs at every site funded by stimulus money so that the public actually knew what they were getting, the same people argued that the millions spent on signs was a huge waste of money. 

 

If I'm free, I'll attend the groundbreaking.

Is it normal for the press to get access to many inside emails from the Managers office? I'm guessing someone forwarded them?

 

 

It's normal for the press to make Freedom of Information Act requests of any taxpayer-supported entity -- when they suspect some misdeed is being conducted. While the media doesn't need a reason to make FOIA requests, they do need a motivation to focus their attention on something. There are always more stories out there than the media can possibly follow, so they have to choose what they want to cover. The motivations for selecting coverage depend on the background of the editors, and at some media outlets, on the reporters, publishers and/or advertisers.

Does anyone actually know Barry Hortsman?? 

 

I know Barry very well, have for many years. My wife went to high school with him, and they just attended their Western Hills High School reunion together. Barry's been a guest in our home, and I've stayed up all night talking with him about a whole universe of subjects. A few years ago, we spent a week riding the London Tube with him; he knows the system like the back of his hand. A few weeks ago, we had a long conversation about how terrific the new super-fast Seattle light rail line is. He and his wife, Sheila, are Europhiles who go to London for the theater and to other European cities more often than I go to Clifton. He rides trains in every city he can, all the time.

 

He's interviewed me many dozens of times for articles that have appeared in the Cincinnati Post, the Cincinnati Enquirer and the Las Vegas Sun, where he worked for a few years. I sometimes cringe at what appears in the paper, but I can't dispute it.

 

If Barry has a bias against the streetcar, and I doubt that he does, it might be because he thinks the streetcar is not ambitious enough. This is just a guess, but I suspect that in his heart-of-hearts, he'd much rather see high-speed regional rail instead of what he may view as a half-measure, the Cincinnati Streetcar.

 

And remember this: he may submit a 1,000-word article for publication. What you end up seeing is 500 words that reflect the views of the publisher, the editors and the headline-writers.

 

I hope everyone attends the groundbreaking for the Cincinnati Streetcar. It will be a watershed moment for our city.

If I don't have class going on, I'll be there.

And remember this: he may submit a 1,000-word article for publication. What you end up seeing is 500 words that reflect the views of the publisher, the editors and the headline-writers.

 

This is an interesting point- because genuinely after reading article after article of his (and I've read them all) he comes across being heavily streetcar-weary. Perhaps some of the good stuff was left on the cutting room floor, so to say...

And remember this: he may submit a 1,000-word article for publication. What you end up seeing is 500 words that reflect the views of the publisher, the editors and the headline-writers.

 

This is an interesting point- because genuinely after reading article after article of his (and I've read them all) he comes across being heavily streetcar-weary. Perhaps some of the good stuff was left on the cutting room floor, so to say...

 

There's also a lot of people out there who think that public transit in the USA is not worth pursuing, because somehow our culture is antithetical to it.  They tend to think that transit just won't work here even though they see it working well in places like Europe or Japan.  That's a classic case of the fundamental attribution error and may explain why Horstman doesn't fight the edits more, if he's even being edited down at all.

Good news elsewhere....

 

Rep. Lewis: DOT will fund Atlanta streetcar project

By Ariel Hart

The Atlanta Journal-Constitution

 

Sixty-one years after the last streetcars rolled in Atlanta, they're coming back.

 

In a coup for the city, the U.S. Department of Transportation has agreed to grant Atlanta$47 million for its proposed $72 million downtown east-west streetcar project, according to U.S. Rep. John Lewis of Atlanta and Mayor Kasim Reed.  Lewis' office said he got confirmation of the award in a conversation with DOT Secretary Ray LaHood on Friday morning.

 

With the grant, which the Obama administration has not confirmed, the competing visions of American transportation held by the Obama and Bush administrations are playing out in stark contrast in metro Atlanta.

 

READ MORE AT:

http://www.ajc.com/news/rep-lewis-dot-will-683159.html

Is there any movement on selecting the maintenance facility site?  I'm hearing rumors of a "temporary" site on Elm.

Is there any movement on selecting the maintenance facility site? I'm hearing rumors of a "temporary" site on Elm.

 

Dumbo Lot, north side of the old Moerlein Brewery or VOA

Is there any movement on selecting the maintenance facility site? I'm hearing rumors of a "temporary" site on Elm.

 

Dumbo Lot, north side of the old Moerlein Brewery or VOA

What does VOA stand for in this situation?

Very Owesome Area.

^ Thanks, I was wondering too!

 

That sounds like a pretty owesome spot for the maintenance facility. Maybe they'll make it permanent.

Very Owesome Area.

 

HA!

 

I know about the 3 facility locations specified in the report, is there a possibility of a temporary staging area, maybe for construction?

 

Is there any movement on selecting the maintenance facility site? I'm hearing rumors of a "temporary" site on Elm.

 

Dumbo Lot, north side of the old Moerlein Brewery or VOA

What does VOA stand for in this situation?

 

Volunteers of America at 115 West McMicken (now under some newfangled name with the same sex offending residents)

I wonder if anyone who works there has heard their theme song:

 

 

 

It might be under 2nd street.

It might be under 2nd street.

 

That's what I had been hearing too, in the Transit Center? Would that work well?

http://cincystreetcar.wordpress.com/2010/10/19/safest-place-in-otr-a-bus-stop/

It might be under 2nd street.

 

That's what I had been hearing too, in the Transit Center? Would that work well?

 

It wouldn't be in the transit center, it would be under the highway overpass there.  That's typically where the circus steps up when they are in town, hence the nickname of the site as "the Dumbo Lot"