^And its even more ludicrous to argue that position after the city has suffered a drop of about 1/3rd in its population.

^And its even more ludicrous to argue that position after the city has suffered a drop of about 1/3rd in its population.

 

That's why I decided to just let his answer hang out there.  It was like "huh"?

^ is the 'he' Tom Luken in that statement?

^I believe the he is Mr. Miller, but I was not party to this conversation.

Some scary people on the streetcar...

 

Man, I don't want the streetcar anymore if there's people like that guy on the left on there.  He's scary...and loud.

Thanks LostMyTwoDamnSense.

http://cincinnati.com/blogs/politics/2010/11/11/streetcar-display-costly-some-overtime-time-of-19-cops/

 

 

^I believe the he is Mr. Miller, but I was not party to this conversation.

 

Correct. It was near the end of the video.

Off-topic but come to Neon's bar tonight at 8pm.  I'll be selling my new book on the subway. 

 

Too bad the books didn't show up last week, or else I could have hawked them to people touring the streetcar. 

 

 

Don't know if anyone read this, but it appears someone at the Enquirer knows the difference between the capital and operating budgets.

 

"Most of Winburn's found money - $750,000 from the capital fund, not the deficit-ridden general fund - would go to buy the house from its owner, Indian Hill-based Greenacres Foundation."

 

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20101110/NEWS0108/11110322/-750K-for-Gamble-House-

 

I wonder why they can't use the same obvious logic in a streetcar article?

 

^ Very, very, very good point!!!

Well, it looks like the Enquirer finally decided to report on the Streetcar display....

 

http://cincinnati.com/blogs/politics/2010/11/11/streetcar-display-costly-some-overtime-time-of-19-cops/?s=d&page=3

 

I should be used to this ludacris reporting/complaining by now right?

Don't know if anyone read this, but it appears someone at the Enquirer knows the difference between the capital and operating budgets.

 

"Most of Winburn's found money - $750,000 from the capital fund, not the deficit-ridden general fund - would go to buy the house from its owner, Indian Hill-based Greenacres Foundation."

 

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20101110/NEWS0108/11110322/-750K-for-Gamble-House-

 

I wonder why they can't use the same obvious logic in a streetcar article?

 

 

 

Exactly what I thought when I read that story earlier today.  Write a note to the editor, commending the author's knowledge and pointing out that they NEVER apply this to their streetcar coverage.  I wish that author would do just one streetcar article!

Well, it looks like the Enquirer finally decided to report on the Streetcar display....

 

http://cincinnati.com/blogs/politics/2010/11/11/streetcar-display-costly-some-overtime-time-of-19-cops/?s=d&page=3

 

I should be used to this ludacris reporting/complaining by now right?

 

Now that's just blatant bias. Not even an attempt at being subtle.

 

BTW, it's "ludicrous." Or in ColDayMan's case it's "Ludi-Chris."

 

So how often has the Cincinnati Disquieter reported on the overtime costs of traffic enforcement?

 

    I talked to three different people about the streetcar in the last 3 days. All three of them think that the streetcar is the dumbest idea in the world.

 

    One of them gave me the old, "why don't they make a trolley on rubber tires."

    "You mean a bus?"

    "Yeah, I guess it would be the same as a bus."

    "When was the last time you rode a city bus?"

    (Pause)

    "Well, when was the last time you rode a city bus?  Have you EVER ridden a city bus?"

    "No, I never have."

 

      This guy is about 41 years old. There is an entire generation that has NEVER ridden a city bus, much less any kind of rail, at least in Ohio. This particular guy went on to say that he'd been to Germany, and rode the trains everywhere, and loved it.

 

    The streetcar is really running an uphill battle.

Build it and watch the momentum for more streetcar lines create a feedback loop.

^8th & State... There should be no more battle. But if there will be one, those of us who are smart will continue to fight. Despite the missing/illogical generation.

It's not just a generational thing it's a cultural thing - sounds to me like a a suburban guy who hates city life in Cincinnati but loves to go on trips out of the country to experience what he can't get back at home.  And the reason that he can't get it is because he wants to prove that his lifestyle is superior so he can justify going to Europe to get it rationalizing it as the charms of Europe but he wouldn't be caught dead supporting something that would make life in Cincinnati comparatively enticing.  Cincinnati has too many jerks like that whose instincts wont allow them to support something that represents the antithesis to their inconvenient car driven culture.

 

 

 

Who sent the email to Inbox 5 chastising them for their erroneous label of light rail to describe the 3C?

      This guy is about 41 years old. There is an entire generation that has NEVER ridden a city bus, much less any kind of rail, at least in Ohio. This particular guy went on to say that he'd been to Germany, and rode the trains everywhere, and loved it.

 

8th and St., you bring up an excellent point here. I too have noticed this. It seems like people here in Cincinnati, Hamilton County and the surrounding suburbs don't "get it" because they've never truly experienced public transit whether it be bus, rail or wiremobile.

 

Every Monday I drive up to a bar near my dad's house in Fairfield. We (I) throw back a few beers, eat wings and watch the monday night game with some of his friends who I've known since I was a kid. Every week someone trys to provoke me into a streetcar argument and it always comes down to similar things like you mentioned. The guy who was stationed in Germany in the army loved riding the trains there. Guy #2 loved using the L and subway when visiting Chicago. Guy #3 liked the light rail in Houston and my dad grew up in NYC where he NEVER drove a car into the city, took the subway everywhere and still does any time he visits. ALL of them having the same opinion though: "No way it would work here." All voted against MetroMoves in 2002.

 

And then you have the folks who have never experienced public transit. The folks that have their SUV across two lanes on 2nd St. waiting to pay 20 bucks to park underneath the ballpark. All summer long I brought friends from my workplace in the suburbs down to the ballpark for Reds games. For some reason everyone wants to park at Hooters and walk across the bridge. So one day I suggested taking the Southbank shuttle, I've done it many times. You wouldn't believe how skeptical they were of it. "Is it safe?" "Are you sure about this?" "Do you know where it goes?" "Does it go through a bad area?" "How much does it cost?" "Maybe we should just walk."

 

A buck and some change and we were where we needed to be in no time. Not where I wanted to be cause Hooters sucks, but we were there. Point is, I think the streetcar will change people's perception of public transit in this city with how easy it is to use and navigate.

 

I don't know what people think it is about Cincinnati that for some reason BETTER public transportation can't work here. When in reality the city and surrounding areas geography makes it an ideal place to build mass transit, particularly by rail, instead of expanding our highways through neighborhoods and cutting into the surrounding hills.

If OTR was Hyde Park this would've been built 60 years ago.  Alot of people are looking around and feeling no attachment to the streetcar because they don't see people like them benefiting.  There's just very little demographic connection among certain groups.

Please forgive the following digression...

 

My company had associates visiting from Portland last week.  They were amazed at how similar Cincinnati feels to their hometown.  The size, the scale of buildings, the hills, the river, the urban core that is beginning to rebound; there are a lot of things that the 2 cities have in common.  My favorite exchange though was this:

 

One of them: "I like it here, and I can't believe how cheap everything is (food, drinks, gas, housing, etc).  This city seriously needs light rail, though."

 

Me: "No kidding."

^ Many people from Portland say the same thing. It's why we take Cincinnatians to Portland all the time.

^Glad to hear that.  I've always thought this while traveling there, but this was the first time I've had the chance to speak to someone from Portland while there were here.  It was a shame that they had to drive everywhere.  Hopefully that won't be an issue in the not-too-distant future.

Having just relocated to near Portland, I concur!  The cities are very similar in all the attributes mentioned above.  Also like Cincinnati, its citizens are very harsh critics of their own city and there are tons of uninformed project bashers in the newspaper, just like Cincinnati!

^ good to hear we aren't the only city that hates itself. I'm glad that mentality is finally (slowly) starting to subside.

any updates on the streetcar? why haven't they broke ground?  I thought the majority of the funding was secured.  Last i heard (on here i think) was they was doing engineering work, utility relocation etc.  Is this done? I'm surprised the local media hasn't mentioned the murder and robbery on Elm the other day and mention it was right on the proposed streetcar line. 

The utility relocation will be starting soon and will take a while.  Every single manhole along the streetcar line has to be moved.  Every major powerline, gas access point, etc. that is not a certain depth/has an accesspoint in the middle of the road needs to be moved/have a new access point.

 

Driving up Vine, from McMicken to Taft I counted over 20 manholes where a streetcar track will be laid.  That's a LOT of construction to do.  It will take months and be very noticeable.

 

Has anyone else been following all the articles the enquirer has been posting lately about this whole ridiculous $5,000 spent on the streetcar display "issue?"  Ghiz and Winburn are actually wasting their time (and taxpayer dollars in the form of their salary) throwing fits about it.  The comment section is the worst I've seen it in a long time. 

According to the City Manager, the city spent a whopping $303 in overtime to protect the streetcar. The Enquirer undoubtedly spent more money than that in manpower and overhead just by covering this non-story.

How much money does the city spend on policing the streets after a Bengals game? Weren't two officers just attacked after MNF and treated for minor injuries?

 

I demand a hearing on how much money the city wasted on Segway's for the CPD! Those things cost thousands of dollars and I demand a study that compares cops on segways to cops on horses to cops on bikes to cops in cars and who is more effective. 

 

I also think that the fact that the city lights a Christmas tree on fountain square is a waste of my hard earned tax money! Government should do nothing! *sarcasm*

I wish the government really did nothing.  Might as well not fake it.  Never done anything for me.  Anyway blame the fop for making this big fuss.  I personally think bringing the thing here at all is a waste of money and i'll ride the thing daily, really support it.  5 grand, for what? who cares what it looks like inside.  Why try and build public support for it now? just build it.  Like you said though not one thousandth as wasteful as many other things (wars, prisons, section eight).  I wish somebody could twist this around properly.  I heard a number once that Cincinnati has nearly half the population of another Ohio city (i forget which city), double the size of the police force and a way higher crime rate.  Fountain square is covered with cameras and there is already a police person there all the time anyway so if they wasted all this money on extra police down there then people need to bring up real crimes that happened while they where down there riding the OT clock. 

^ just for clarification, I was being highly sarcastic/pointing out the silliness in Ghiz and Winburn's arguments...  Government provides a whole bunch of important services and it's silly to think we don't need it...  You might also be joking, but I can't tell.

 

Regarding Cincy vs. another ohio city, the only Ohio city that is (just over) twice as populous as Cincinnati is Columbus, and it has roughly 1.8 times our police force and I'm pretty certain crime in both cities is fairly comparable. 

 

I also doubt that anyone can argue that a real crime could have been prevented because one officer (at a time) was on fountain square.

Government provides a whole bunch of important services and it's silly to think we don't need it... 

 

not for me, i guess your definition of important is different then mine.  Not to get off topic but the only thing the government has ever done for me is lock me in a cage.  Anyway, Bring on the streetcar!

Moderator Note

 

If nothing else, government created the internet, which is the means by which you've taken this thread off-topic. This is an official request to knock it off. You're already treading on thin ice around here.

Anyway blame the fop for making this big fuss

 

Spot on. Kathy Harrell was front and center on this....obviously using it for her own warped agenda.  When do you ever hear her complain about OT??? Oktoberfest, taste, Bengals games etc.etc. 

1) Everyone knows Al Gore created the internet :D

 

Anyway blame the fop for making this big fuss

 

Spot on. Kathy Harrell was front and center on this....obviously using it for her own warped agenda.  When do you ever hear her complain about OT??? Oktoberfest, taste, Bengals games etc.etc. 

 

Bingo. I wish someone in Cincinnati media would do an investigation into that...the real scandal in this whole story. Actually, it's probably better if the whole streetcar project got out of the headlines until people are riding it.

 

Any news on the time/date of the groundbreaking?

^ Many people from Portland say the same thing. It's why we take Cincinnatians to Portland all the time.

 

Thats what people from everywhere say whom have visited somewhere that LR/Streetcar exists

^ Many people from Portland say the same thing. It's why we take Cincinnatians to Portland all the time.

 

Thats what people from everywhere say whom have visited somewhere that LR/Streetcar exists

 

I've never heard anyone from Seattle, Tacoma, SF, LA, San Diego, Sacremento, Phoenix, Denver, Salt Lake City, Dallas, Houston, New Orleans, Calgary, Edmonton, Toronto, Minneapolis, Kenosha, Cleveland, Buffalo, Boston, Philadelphia, St. Louis, Little Rock, Charlotte, Memphis, Tampa or Baltimore -- which all have streetcars and/or light rail -- say their cities seem a lot like Cincinnati.

 

Pittsburgh, Montreal maybe. Portland certainly.

Sorry John, I should have said anyone from a non-rail having city who visits a rail-having one says, "Wow, we should have this in our city"

 

;)

City adds streetcar project manager

 

 

Cincinnati now has an official streetcar project manager.

 

Chris Eilerman, who has been working on the project, has been moved up into the title of assistant to the city manager. He'd previously been an administrative assistant, a job title that didn't accurately reflect all the streetcar duties he has taken on, said Meg Olberding, spokeswoman for City Manager Milton Dohoney.

There's definitely a major editorial lapse in the 7th paragraph. If they are paraphrasing Ghiz, it doesn't necessarily come across that way. It sounds more like their opinion on the matter.

 

At least some council members, including streetcar opponent Leslie Ghiz, were unaware of the job change. The city manager's budget should be cut, given the $60 million projected deficit for next year, not increased. And any additional money spent should be spent, she said, on police officers and firefighters.

Chris and I grew up across the street from one another, and it's great to know this position is in capable hands. Glad to see a fellow Price Hill kid in such a prominent position. Good luck Chris!

 

  I saw the position advertised a few months ago. I thought I might apply for it, then figured I would be wasting my time since they probably had someone in mind already and were only advertising to fulfill a legal requirement.

There's definitely a major editorial lapse in the 7th paragraph. If they are paraphrasing Ghiz, it doesn't necessarily come across that way. It sounds more like their opinion on the matter.

 

At least some council members, including streetcar opponent Leslie Ghiz, were unaware of the job change. The city manager's budget should be cut, given the $60 million projected deficit for next year, not increased. And any additional money spent should be spent, she said, on police officers and firefighters.

 

Saw that too... the enquirer especially has been lax with their web-based content over the years.  they seem to take a put it up then fix it for print mentality- its very sad.

 

But back on topic... For those of us who are interested in future streetcar branches, especially through the West End and towards Price Hill it is nice to see someone from one of those inner ring neighborhoods get the nod!

Looks like C0AST is marshaling fire and police officers against the streetcar now.  Good grief, first they forget the difference between general and capital expenses, and now they are soliciting for anonymous examples of general fund expenditures on the streetcar.  Ugh!

 

Police, fire say their jobs should come before streetcar

 

Posted by jprendergast November 18th, 2010, 8:24 am

 

Streetcar opponents – mainly COAST, police officers and firefighters, in this case – have started CASS, Citizens Against Streetcar Swindle. They’re on Facebook asking people to submit to them anonymously examples of where the city has spent general fund dollars on the streetcar project. Marc Monahan, president of the firefighters union, says those examples will help the groups’ lawyers.

 

Police and fire are trying to protect their jobs. City Manager Milton Dohoney’s proposed budget, which might be out by next week, is expected to suggest layoffs. The police chief has recommended cutting 144 of his people.

CincyStreetcar.com

 

Q: The City of Cincinnati will be using Capital Funds to construct the streetcar. Can the City of Cincinnati use Capital Funds to pay for operating expenses, such as city employee’s salaries?

 

Lea Eriksen, City Budget Director

 

A: The sources of funding for the City’s General Capital budget include a dedicated portion of City’s Income Tax (0.15% of the 2.1%), a dedicated portion of the City’s Property Tax (5.36 mills out of 9.89 mills), and lease payments from the City owned Southern Railway.  All of these sources are restricted by City Charter and/or State Law to be used for “permanent improvement” purposes.  A permanent improvement is defined as an asset with a useful life of at least five years and a value of at least $10,000.  The City can not by Law use the funds from the General Capital budget to pay for operating expenses such as Police Officer salaries.

The general public doesnt really understand the difference between a capital budget and operating budget, or they just dont care. In their mind, taxpayer money is taxpayer money. THe police and fire union leaders are trying to stir up the populist anger.