Well there's the issue, what's stopping them, after their upcoming defeat, from simply rewording yet another charter amendment?   These people are political zombies.

 

That's not the issue.  If they do it again, we'll fight it again and they'll look like morons again.  Right now, we need to focus like a laser on making sure no ballot initiative passes in May.  (On a side note, I have some questions about registering to vote in Ohio.  Anyone with a knowledge of residency definitions and absentee voting, please PM me.)

Local Business Plans Expansion Along Streetcar Line- http://cincystreetcar.wordpress.com/2011/01/25/local-business-plans-expansion-along-streetcar-line/

Well there's the issue, what's stopping them, after their upcoming defeat, from simply rewording yet another charter amendment? These people are political zombies.

 

That's not the issue. If they do it again, we'll fight it again and they'll look like morons again. Right now, we need to focus like a laser on making sure no ballot initiative passes in May. (On a side note, I have some questions about registering to vote in Ohio. Anyone with a knowledge of residency definitions and absentee voting, please PM me.)

 

Go to Ham. Co. Board of Elections site

COA T is promoting a letter writing campaign to governor Kasich &  DOT head Wray urging the cancellation of state funds for the streetcar, among their suggested bullet points was:

"3) There is NO PLAN at all to fund the cost of operations of the project, which former SORTA Board Memebr Stephan Louis estimates to be $10-$12 million per year"

These are the addresses they are suggesting:

[email protected]

[email protected]

& a cc to [email protected] is requested.

^ Yup-- They started this several days ago-- The official "Public Comment" period ends February 11th. 

 

Everyone who reads this blog should ALSO email both of those people, but put "Support Cincinnati Streetcar" or something very similar in the Subject line of your email so it's clear that there are vocal supporters on our side. 

Local Business Plans Expansion Along Streetcar Line- http://cincystreetcar.wordpress.com/2011/01/25/local-business-plans-expansion-along-streetcar-line/

You really should be linking to Soapbox.

^I tried to, the link's broken, I'm fixing.

 

I talked to a Cincinnati firefighter today. I didn't even bring up the streetcar at all, when he told me he was going to pick up a petition to circulate.

 

He is actually in favor of streetcars. He is circulating the petition because he thinks that the streetcar will divert funds from firefighting, and yes, he is aware that capital costs and operating costs are supposed to come from separate funds.

 

He also told me about emergency service "brownouts" where certain fire stations, trucks, or operations are closed without a lot of media attention. If a truck is designed for a crew of 4, and they lose one man due to budget cuts, then they re-assign the other 3 men to other trucks and the truck sits idle.

 

I think that no matter what the legal outcome of the petition drive is, the fact that there is a petition drive at all is very serious. Politicians tend to do what is popular, and if City of Cincinnati City Council members see a lot of opposition to the streetcar, they may not support it.

 

Some of them may SAY that they support the streetcar, but if they can't come up with the funding to make it happen, then they don't really support it.

 

 

 

Supporters should be pressuring the city to get started on construction asap.  Nothing else matters right now

Solid point.  They need to get the construction contracts signed, sealed and delivered. 

 

It's easier to oppose something that hasn't started construction (except in the case of subways).

 

Any risk of losing state funding....?

Seriously, has anyone put together a good letter they're willing to share with everyone?  A comprehensive list of addresses of people to send it to would be very helpful too.  Who would be better to send a snail mail letter to versus e-mail? 

They have been talking about a major redo of the fire department including building a number of new, larger regional stations. Would the local money for the streetcar be able to be spent on building new fire stations?

Unlikely, since the bonds were issued specifically for use to construct the streetcar.

Seriously, has anyone put together a good letter they're willing to share with everyone? A comprehensive list of addresses of people to send it to would be very helpful too. Who would be better to send a snail mail letter to versus e-mail?

 

I just wrote one myself- I talked about the positives, how many of the "facts" used by the opposition are wrong (Vine is not 12% grade! It's closer to 8% at it's max) and how I support their original decision. Remember, they already recommended funding it. We just have to say, you were right, we support you.

 

Everyone on here should have sent a letter by now. (email or both)

 

Police and fire unions oppose it on the false premise that capital funds used for the streetcar could stave off the crisis with the operational budget which threatens police and fire jobs.

 

That's a confusion between capital and operating budgets, though the operating subsidy for the streetcar is a legtimate issue or policy question.

 

The Greens, well, you'd have to get to know these fools, Jason Haap and Justin Jeffre (of the boy band 98 Degrees). From what I can tell, they take issue with the fact that streetcar power would come from coal plants. That and the official NAACP line that money would better be spent directly on social services.

 

Oh, yes I recall the discussion here re Jeffre.  He sounds like a crank and ego-freak, opposing something just to oppose.

 

NAACP probably has more of a point, though they miss there mark.  In LA the oppostion to the subway came, in part, from poor/minority transit riders since the transit budget & service was being hit to support the subway construction/operations, which had limited benefit to LA bus riders. 

 

That would probably be the most legitimate argument against the streetcar, that the operating budget could, possibly, lead to reduced money going to bus transit, leading to service degradation for bus riders.

 

That was one reason I kept bringing it up here earlier in this thread...."where is your operating budget coming from, beyond the farebox?"

 

The gentrification issue is probably somewhat valid, but that is happening anyway with 3CDC doing stuff in OTR.  That wave is coming independent of the streetcar.

 

 

It is incredible how many people in the Cincinnati area want to re-enact the Subway failure of the 1920's.  The lack of vision by not just the City, but the people of the City, are at the central core of why I don't live there anymore.  I'm relatively young now, but I could live to be 95 years old and there would only be 2 streetcar lines and one heavy rail that serves the Eastside, not even the airport.  Cincinnatians need to come to Europe and check out what transport has done here.

^ Chill.  Be careful to not equate a facebook page organized by a half dozen wack-jobs with lots of people wanting "to re-enact the subway failure of the 1920s'. 

 

The lack of vision by "the city" and "the people of the city"?  Well, it was some of those people, along with the city council and Mayor, and the city administration, who have been and are actively pushing the streetcar -- and successfully.  These are tough issues in America, no matter where you go.

 

Enjoy Europe.  We read over here that's it's a nice place ;-)

 

Surprised this wasn't posted yesterday evening. I for one have not received any emails from Cincinnatians for Progress since 07/2010...

 

 

Streetcar fans fight ballot drive

By Barry M. Horstman • [email protected] • January 26, 2011

 

Readying for another battle in a war they believed was already won, Cincinnati streetcar supporters, melding their frustration with redoubled determination, hope to convince voters that a new attempt to derail the $128 million-plus project could be more damaging to the city than the one defeated in 2009.

 

Although legal questions remain about whether a second ballot measure later this year could halt a project on which construction likely will have already started, streetcar supporters concede the likelihood of another electoral showdown and are planning accordingly.

 

"It's like Groundhog Day - it's the same old story all over again," said John Schneider, a Downtown businessman who has been a leading backer of the streetcar. "The other side will never stop trying to kill this. If they fail again this time, there probably will be another effort down the road."

 

cont

This is the last email I received from CfP:

 

Fellow Cincinnatian for Progress,

 

            Last week, the Cincinnati Streetcar received the maximum award from the Department of Transportation's Urban Circulators program.  With the addition of these federal funds, the Streetcar now has 90% of the necessary funding in place to complete the first phase running from our riverfront to the University of Cincinnati-connecting the regions two largest job centers.

 

            In the weeks ahead, Cincinnatians for Progress will be unveiling our new website and an expanded focus.  In addition to working to make our streetcar a transformative investment for our City, Cincinnatians for Progress will be outlining a pro-transportation, pro-growth platform that will help create jobs and improve mobility in our region. 

 

Thank you for all of your support in getting to where we are today.  We would not be in this position without countless hours from hundreds of concerned Cincinnatians who wanted to make their City a better place to live.  Thank you for your time, effort and support and stay tuned for updates from Cincinnatians for Progress as we move ahead.

 

Sincerely,

 

Candace Klein

Rob Richardson

Amber Burke Sprengarg

 

Never did see that new website... what happened/is happening?

Ch. 5 news covered the Streetcar issue last night and I was shocked to hear Tom Brinkman begin his opposing comments by saying "Cincinnati is a dying city".  Now, times have definitely changed all over, and downtowns just about everywhere aren't the retail hubs they once were, but I don't understand how anyone who looks at downtown Cincinnati objectively can say it's dying.  The Banks, expansion of the beautiful riverfront parklands, Fountain Square renovation, new Government Square, Convention Center expansion, new Western & Southern skyscraper, new Contemporary Arts Center, The Aronoff, soon-to-be-remodelled Music Hall and Washington Park, new School for the Creative & Performing Arts, Gateway, etc., etc., etc. all defy his characterization. 

 

Brinkman, Smitherman, Finney and Luken are like some self-appointed Death Panel.

Has the City sold the municipal bonds yet?  If they haven't, can't they get some language in the bonds themselves that is controlling saying that the funds can only go toward building a streetcar line?  I'm not sure if that would effect the ability to sell the bonds, but it seems to me that you want to make some sort of controlling legal agreement that rests on state or federal authority before this petition drive goes into effect, since any municipal law that violates state or federal law I presume would be invalid.

Ch. 5 news covered the Streetcar issue last night and I was shocked to hear Tom Brinkman begin his opposing comments by saying "Cincinnati is a dying city".

 

A quick and simple response to this is visit Chicago, Boston or New York, all with vibrant downtowns all with good transit.  I wonder if people in the Cincinnati area actually travel anywhere beyond West Chester sometimes.

Ch. 5 news covered the Streetcar issue last night and I was shocked to hear Tom Brinkman begin his opposing comments by saying "Cincinnati is a dying city".

 

A quick and simple response to this is visit Chicago, Boston or New York, all with vibrant downtowns all with good transit.  I wonder if people in the Cincinnati area actually travel anywhere beyond West Chester sometimes.

 

This is what I was getting at  Jim Uber.  You're right though, I don't mean to typecast everyone as blind without a dog or a walking stick.  But when the Vice-mayor comes out saying that the Oasis line isn't a priority for the City, it becomes difficult not to point to City Hall for Cincinnati's sluggish progress.

unfortunately, I don't think many people do.  I met a girl the other day, 27 or so, who was born and raised in Cincinnati and had never been to Chicago... That blows my mind.  It's only 4 hours away!

but back to the streetcar... Did everyone see the newest streetcar article at Cincinnati.com? 

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20110126/NEWS01/101270333/Streetcar-fans-fight-ballot-drive

 

 

If this ballot language passes, if gas prices in 2016 hit $6 a gallon, Cincinnati won't be able to spend a penny on rail infrastructure.

^It has already been posted before.

This is a great start with the Enquirer!

 

but back to the streetcar... Did everyone see the newest streetcar article at Cincinnati.com?

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20110126/NEWS01/101270333/Streetcar-fans-fight-ballot-drive

 

 

If this ballot language passes, if gas prices in 2016 hit $6 a gallon, Cincinnati won't be able to spend a penny on rail infrastructure.

 

I'm starting to really enjoy commenting on these articles.  It's a good way to take out my pent up aggression.  I urge everyone to go on every single streetcar article and comment (I know it seems hopeless, but it isn't.)  Just remember to stay tactful in your attacks.

but back to the streetcar... Did everyone see the newest streetcar article at Cincinnati.com? 

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20110126/NEWS01/101270333/Streetcar-fans-fight-ballot-drive

 

 

If this ballot language passes, if gas prices in 2016 hit $6 a gallon, Cincinnati won't be able to spend a penny on rail infrastructure.

 

I'm starting to really enjoy commenting on these articles.  It's a good way to take out my pent up aggression.  I urge everyone to go on every single streetcar article and comment (I know it seems hopeless, but it isn't.)  Just remember to stay tactful in your attacks.

That GeorgeRemus clown is driving me crazy.  At least the people reading it can see some of the people the anti-streetcar crowd attracts

Berding is resigning. Council support for the streetcar is running about 50/50 now. His replacement is kinda critical.

http://cincinnati.com/blogs/politics/2011/01/27/who-should-replace-berding/

I believe Flynn is pro-streetcar. He can certainly see it's advantages for the handicapped.

^Per Kevin Flynn's (Charter) 2009 campaign, he was pro-streetcar.  Greg Harris (Dem) is also pro-streetcar. 

^Per Kevin Flynn's (Charter) 2009 campaign, he was pro-streetcar.  Greg Harris (Dem) is also pro-streetcar. 

 

Greg Harris now resides in Detroit, so he isn't an option any longer.

Berding is resigning. Council support for the streetcar is running about 50/50 now. His replacement is kinda critical.

http://cincinnati.com/blogs/politics/2011/01/27/who-should-replace-berding/

I believe Flynn is pro-streetcar. He can certainly see it's advantages for the handicapped.

 

Bortz is picking the replacement.  I'm sure he has a streetcar supporter in mind

^Per Kevin Flynn's (Charter) 2009 campaign, he was pro-streetcar. Greg Harris (Dem) is also pro-streetcar.

 

I think he seems like the leading choice at the moment.  I'd imagine that basically everyone in the running is pro-streetcar, as even most Republicans I know are in favor of it.  I have always had the sense that it's the fringes on either side that are against it, which is further backed up by the weird coalition that's formed.  For some reason, in Cincy the fringes on the left and right sides are content with the status quo.

My aunt went out with Kevin Flynn in high school.  That is all. 

I also agree that Kevin Flynn will probably be chosen.

Bortz is in charge of the replacement.  We're probably fine for balance of streetcar votes on council.

My aunt went out with Kevin Flynn in high school.   That is all.

 

I witnessed Kevin Flynn slam a revolving door at the Hyatt downtown

Kristyn Wellesley via Opinonati is back at it...

 

 

Proposed streetcar ballot is still confusing

 

Now this is interesting.

 

The last time the streetcar issue was brought before voters — with Issue 9 in November 2009 — the opposition’s ballot measure read that city council would need to seek voter approval before moving forward on any local passenger rail system, including but not limited to, a streetcar.

 

That proposal, rejected by voters, at least opened the door to the city having a conversation with residents about a streetcar or any other light rail system; they would simply need to put it on the ballot.

 

The proposed current ballot measure is more and less restrictive, depending on how you read it (the devil is always in the details, isn’t he?).

 

cont

Considering what voters said in 2009, shouldn't the board of elections deny any petitions to place any public vote about the streetcar on the ballot?

No, because they can try again. The ballot language on this petition is different.

But the voters have already spoken. If this shit keeps up, democracy itself is threatened. Their actions tell me Americans are too self-centered anymore for democracy to survive here. I hope I am wrong.

And the comment was made already that if this fails - by failing to collect enough ballots, people voting for the streetcar, etc., that it would be on the ballot again. And if Smitherman is elected, and council is not 50/50 split (as it will be once Berding resigns), then there could be some challenges ahead.

And I'm making the comment that there is a way to stop these people. We just haven't thought of it yet.

 

This narcissism isn't just happening in Cincinnati. It's happening nationwide. In the northern suburbs of Philadelphia, some NIMBY's who don't want a parking garage to be built next to a SEPTA commuter rail station are seeking a ballot issue that would require all capital improvements by SEPTA to be subject to a public vote. I am hearing more and more examples of this kind of thing happening. In fact, I'd like to see all of these compiled by some organization dedicated to the survival of democracy.

 

See what I mean by selfishness in the name of democracy killing the democracy? This is why I am scared about the future of this country, not just about the little ol' Cincinnati Streetcar. This is much, much bigger than that.

 

  Naw, parking garages are just ugly. No one wants to live next to a parking garage.

 

 

 

Naw, parking garages are just ugly. No one wants to live next to a parking garage.

 

 

You mean like this one in Princeton, NJ?

 

 

Or this one at Miami U in Oxford, OH?

 

 

Horrible! :-D

unfortunately, I don't think many people do.  I met a girl the other day, 27 or so, who was born and raised in Cincinnati and had never been to Chicago... That blows my mind.  It's only 4 hours away!

 

I often think the same thing. A 36 year old guy I work with, a born and raised Cincinnatian, has never been to Cleveland.... Now that blows my mind! I've also met a few people in their 20s who have never been to Columbus or Cincinnati :-o. I agree that many people, especially here, need to get out and travel more. I think the lack of travel is one of the main reasons why many people here oppose projects that will help the city move forward.

Sounds like a chicken-and-egg situation! Very frustrating!

Smitherman has no chance of ever being elected again. We made that mistake once and he only got elected the first time on the back of sounding reasonable after the riots compared to Kabaka Oba and playing to white guilt in a very different environment.

>I am hearing more and more examples of this kind of thing happening.

 

The core problem is that the public can't seem to understand that operations expenses -- aka payroll -- are the biggest part of local budgets.  If COAST was actually an anti-tax group and not a political gang that preys on the middle class, they'd be endorsing council candidates who promise to lay off police and fire. 

^

eggs-ackly!  It is usually public safety budget lines, which are mostly payroll/benefits, that are the highest operational cost in local government.

 

@@@

 

Indeed, it will be Cincy Subway Redux if they do start construction and a referendum kills the streetcar.  This might get negative national attention. 

 

However, it seems the local power structure is behind this, no? (ie the players behind things like 3CDC).