Columbus

Opponents only used 4 of their 10 allocated slots to speak.

 

Christ hospital spokesman in favor of it being built

Rob Richardson just showed one of the COAST Issue 9 banners!

 

Stelvey-Maddox seems very interested in this issue.  Wray is nodding off.  I got a shot of Wray nodding off.

thanks.  I kinda figured it would be there, but so many from Cincinnati -for and against. 

question: is this going on in Columbus or Cincinnati (or elsewhere)?

 

It's at the ODOT headquarters in Columbus. Hence my comments earlier about the extra ODOT security at the entrances, and the undercover state troopers inside the hearing. You can probably recognize them by their crewcuts....

Looks like streetcar opponents only mustered 3 speakers -- Finney, Luken's daughter, Luken's high school buddy

Christ Hospital spokesman said they will expand if streetcar is built

Talking about extending the blue line in Cleveland

Why did only 3 opponents speak? I guess they really are the minority.

Some highlights from the speakers:

 

"Dustin Clark (UC Student Gov't): "85% of students in a poll say that they want rail transit in Cincinnati."

 

Bill Waking from Christ Hospital says that if the @CincyStreetcar is built that the hospital will expand

 

Rob Richardson, from UC, simply holds up a "No on Issue 9" sign and says, "Yes, the people of Cincinnati do support this."

 

David Dossen from Sibcy Cline Realtors: "If the scoring system doesn't matter, then why is there a scoring system?"

 

Quinlivan: "We're not building streetcar for grumpy old men, we're building it for young people who want it."

 

Laure Quinlivan "There's a new sheriff in town. But he hasn't performed lobotomies"

 

Mallory mentioned law prohibiting to allocate funds to the streetcar doesnt come into effect til June! Puzzling

 

Roxanne Qualls: "The @CincyStreetcar will create jobs and development."

 

Mallory says if state agency doesn't approve full $52M for streetcar, all statewide projects should be cut proportionately.

 

Mallory: "Voting should remain true to the goals of TRAC. This project will transform our city."

 

COAST's Chris Finney says that @CincyStreetcar is an "amusement park ride".  Comparing the streetcar to the stadium(which he voted for)

 

Luken's neighbor says that weather, yes weahter, inhibits streetcars.

 

Luken's daughter says that the public in Cincinnati doesn't want streetcars

 

 

 

ODOT says streetcar cut from TIER 1 in favor of projects that emphasized "safety"

^ Safety?  What a crock!

Good comments by streetcar advocates..... reasoned, civil and to the point.

Selvy--MAddux suggest shifting TIER 2 money to the streetcar

I like the comments (from ODOT?) that the legislative prohibition against using state appropriated federal funds for one city may be illegal, and even if it is somehow legal, it doesn't take effect until July 1.

It's official -- the money's cut

No politics involved at all..

Safety?? Public transit is all about safety.

Today's meeting was pointless, the decision had already been made...

^Politics as usual, it was obvious where the TRAC meeting was going.  :|

 

Wasn't that in return for something? IIRC, the sale of the city's street lights?

I'm pretty sure if you buy something, you don't get to decide what the money you paid gets spent on for the guy you paid it to.

 

Obviously Duke is in favor of the Streetcar because it runs on electricity rather than diesel, and therefore they will get to charge for its operation.  I'm pretty sure we all know Towne Properties is in favor of the Streetcar.  They are a big corporation.

 

Towne doesn't have enough cash flow or profit to make a substantial contribution, unlike say, Bank of America (LYNX).

What a crock. Kasich and his political goons are rapidly turning Ohio into a third-world country.

And he's doing a good job at it.

 

Dissing 3C Rail, Streetcars, Casinos, Police, Firefighters, Unions, Teachers, Black folks...

 

He's setting himself up for a one-termer.

Even more sickening is we could not turn one more person. The funding was cut by a 4-3 vote.

Nothing new.

 

State panel yanks streetcar funding

Enquirer, 11:24 AM, Apr. 12, 2011

 

A state panel Tuesday officially withdrew $52 million in state funding for the proposed streetcar system in Cincinnati.

 

[...]

 

The council's staff has proposed to withhold $51.8 million tentatively recommended last year for a portion oft the streetcar costs. The streetcar was ranked the No. 1 state project last year.

Even more sickening is we could not turn one more person. The funding was cut by a 4-3 vote.

 

Do you know why 2 members weren't present?

Who said anything was dead?

They've won today, but the momentum in downtown and OTR won't soon be stopped.  There will be a streetcar and other mass transit in Cincinnati--maybe sooner, if gas prices remain sky high. 

Several trolling comments and their replies have been removed. Watch yourselves.

There must be more going on here than we can see.

 

If I had to speculate, I'd say that last November the city planned for a smaller route, but Qualls balked because Parsons found that initial ridership would be low. Now the city is faced with the distasteful choice of building a small route now and risk underperformance or hold out for the full route and risk the referendum in November.

 

As for why no large partners have stepped up to help fund, it's not hard to guess. Until Kasich, the project looked overfunded. Why put your own money up when the jar is full?

 

Which means that the next few months will be the most interesting time of all for the Streetcar, because now is the time where every player's true hand will be shown.

Contrary to the assumption that streetcar opponents brought about this latest episode, I suspect it all has much more to do with Mayor Mallory being a possible political rival to Kasich than anything else.  Do the math -- Mallory is term-limited and will be free to pursue state-wide office by the time Kasich is up for re-election.  I have a feeling the governor doesn't want to do anything that could make Mallory look good.

Not sure if that theory will hold water, as Columbus Mayor Coleman is also rumored to be a possible candidate against Kasich.  Personally, I would favor Mallory.

who the heck are Luken's neighbor & daughter?

names.....

without knowing, the lopsidedness of the speakers credentials is amazing.

http://allaboardohio.org/2011/04/12/trac-deepens-ohios-anti-urban-policies-with-anti-streetcar-vote/

 

TRAC deepens Ohio’s anti-urban policies with anti-streetcar vote

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE — April 12, 2011

 

Contacts:

Jack Shaner, Ohio Environmental Council, [email protected] (614) 446-1693

Ken Prendergast, All Aboard Ohio, [email protected] (216) 288-4883

 

Construction of the Cincinnati streetcar will likely continue, albeit scaled back, despite a vote today by the Ohio Department of Transportation’s Transportation Review Advisory Council to deny the project $51.8 million in state-appropriated federal funds. The TRAC reversed from a 8-0 recommendation in December to support the project, which last year cited it as the highest-scoring transportation project in the state. The TRAC scores projects based on cost-effectiveness, economic development and environmental impacts.

 

TRAC was created in 1997 by the Ohio General Assembly at the urging of ODOT Director Jerry Wray, under then-Gov. George Voinovich, to reform a highly politicized transportation selection process into one based on cold, hard costs and benefits. All Aboard Ohio and the Ohio Environmental Council condemned today’s TRAC vote as the antithesis to its legal purpose, and as anti-urban in its project selection.

 

“We recognize that the prior TRAC recommendations overcommitted the state to more transportation projects than it could afford,” said Ken Prendergast, executive director of All Aboard Ohio. “But I fail to understand why, other than a political agenda dominated by oil, highway and exurban interests, the highest-ranking project in the state was completely eliminated, absorbing half of the $98 million in funding cuts approved by today’s TRAC vote. It’s clear this administration wants to keep Ohioans chained to the almighty gas pump.”

 

“This reversal of fortune does nothing to help Ohio’s downtowns,” said Jack Shaner, deputy director of the Ohio Environmental Council. “It will only cart jobs and economic development to the exurbs and beyond. Steel rails, by contrast, are magnets that help keep downtown urban cores vibrant by attracting investment while reducing tailpipe emissions and raising the quality of life.”

 

All Aboard Ohio and the Ohio Environmental Council thanked Cincinnati Mayor Mark Mallory and the many citizens who showed up at the TRAC hearing today to speak out in support of the streetcar project. That includes a representative of Christ Hospital in Cincinnati who said that if the streetcar is built, the hospital will undertake a planned $350 million expansion – more than double the cost of the entire streetcar project. Dustin Clark, director of commuter services for the University of Cincinnati’s Undergraduate Student Government, said their poll showed 85 percent of students want rail transit in Cincinnati. David Dawson, executive sales vice president at Sibcy Cline Realtors, said the streetcar will boost real estate values and asked “if the TRAC’s scoring system doesn’t matter, then why is there a scoring system?”

 

“ODOT claims the streetcar wasn’t sustainable, but that’s not what HDR Consultants’ report found,” Shaner added. “The streetcar showed a return on investment of 2.7-to-1, with thousands of jobs and hundreds of millions of dollars in economic development projected.”

 

Prendergast said ODOT is going out of its way to derail every possible advance in passenger rail service in favor of rubber-tired vehicles that burn more petroleum and use our crumbling asphalt roads. Meanwhile, states like Illinois, New Mexico, Missouri, North Carolina, Oklahoma and others are expanding rail service. This makes it harder for Ohio to compete for young professionals who are driving less and looking for alternative transportation options as well as aging baby boomers who are growing weary of driving, he said.

 

“Today’s vote proclaims Ohio as a Right to Drive state,” Shaner said. “That may make a nice rear-window view, but it is not forward looking. Meanwhile, Ohio’s competitors are looking ahead and diversifying their transportation options with investments in rail, transit, biking and walking. Ohio needs to expand its transportation playbook beyond just asphalt. It needs to include rail and other proven modes. Otherwise, we can look forward to more potholes and delays in Ohio’s growth and progress.”

 

END

Was the vote 6-1 (as per the enquirer) or 4-3 (as reported here)?

Business Courier reports 6-1: http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2011/04/12/state-panel-votes-to-pull-cincinnati.html

Why did only 3 opponents speak? I guess they really are the minority.

 

No, its because they knew it was already a done deal.  TRAC was never planning on listening to reason with this because the decision had already been made from the top. 

I was basing the vote on Twitter reports, but removed it due to contradictory information. Thanks.

It was both a 4-3 and a 6-1 vote.

 

Toni Selvey-Maddox, a Cincinnatian, moved to separate the streetcar funding issue from the entire TRAC slate of projects. That motion failed 4-3. Then, they voted 6-1 to approve the staff recommendations, Selvey-Maddox being the only "No" vote.

Rain's coming down pretty good right now at my shop which is about a mile from the ODOT HQ. I hope they think about what they've done while they're hydroplaning on the way home.

So, basically, the 4-3 vote was to obscure accountability for members' support or non-support of defunding the streetcar.

Rain's coming down pretty good right now at my shop which is about a mile from the ODOT HQ. I hope they think about what they've done while they're hydroplaning on the way home.

 

Hey, the rain affects streetcars too! It makes them more slippery and prone to runaway crashes! (sarcasm intended)

The press release was also posted at:

 

http://www.theoec.org/PressReleases/PR_CincyStreetcar_0411.htm

 

And John has some good news to share regarding the streetcar.

Dear Streetcar Supporter,

 

One door closes, another opens ...

 

When the Cincinnati Streetcar was awarded a $24.99 million Urban Circulator Grant last summer, the U.S. required our city to study how the streetcar will affect the human and built environments along its path. That study is now complete and awaiting public comment.

 

Here is a copy of the report: Click here: City of Cincinnati - Streetcars

 

This Week -- two public Open Houses will enable you to learn more about the "Environmental Document." The meetings will be held in City Council Chambers on Wednesday and Thursday nights between 5:00p and 8:00p. These are come-anytime, walk-around and ask questions sorts of meetings. Parking meters are free after 5:00, and there is plenty of garage parking available south and east of City Hall, 801 Plum Street. The leader of the streetcar team, Fred Craig, will make presentations and answer questions at 5:30p and 7:00p. both nights. You can make comments then. A court reporter will be taking everything down.

 

Knowing how easily modern streetcars fit into the three cities where they operate today, I'm sure there are no environmental issues of significance, though COAST may try to conjure some up.

 

But everybody wanted more details on the construction and operation of the streetcar, right? This will be the most information you've ever seen on the streetcar project in one place, and it would be good to know more details. If your home or business is on the streetcar line, you know the micro-climates of your block. See where they have placed the stops along the line. See where parking meters are being removed on account of the project. There are data on noise and vibration during the construction and operation of the streetcar and information on how long it will take to build a block of streetcar track -- not long, it turns out.

 

So plan to come one or both nights. And bring a skeptic.

 

John Schneider

Dear Streetcar Supporter,

 

One door closes, another opens ...

 

When the Cincinnati Streetcar was awarded a $24.99 million Urban Circulator Grant last summer, the U.S. required our city to study how the streetcar will affect the human and built environments along its path. That study is now complete and awaiting public comment.

 

Here is a copy of the report: Click here: City of Cincinnati - Streetcars

 

This Week -- two public Open Houses will enable you to learn more about the "Environmental Document." The meetings will be held in City Council Chambers on Wednesday and Thursday nights between 5:00p and 8:00p. These are come-anytime, walk-around and ask questions sorts of meetings. Parking meters are free after 5:00, and there is plenty of garage parking available south and east of City Hall, 801 Plum Street. The leader of the streetcar team, Fred Craig, will make presentations and answer questions at 5:30p and 7:00p. both nights. You can make comments then. A court reporter will be taking everything down.

 

Knowing how easily modern streetcars fit into the three cities where they operate today, I'm sure there are no environmental issues of significance, though COAST may try to conjure some up.

 

But everybody wanted more details on the construction and operation of the streetcar, right? This will be the most information you've ever seen on the streetcar project in one place, and it would be good to know more details. If your home or business is on the streetcar line, you know the micro-climates of your block. See where they have placed the stops along the line. See where parking meters are being removed on account of the project. There are data on noise and vibration during the construction and operation of the streetcar and information on how long it will take to build a block of streetcar track -- not long, it turns out.

 

So plan to come one or both nights. And bring a skeptic.

 

John Schneider

 

Nice.  Someone contact Horstman to come so they can stop claiming they don't know all the facts once and for all

"Today's vote proclaims Ohio as a Right to Drive state," Shaner said

Actually it makes it a "driving required" state. But I thought we didn't want to be California....

again, who are Luken's neighbor & daughter?

4/12/2011  

TRAC Approves $70 Million In New Transportation Funding

Projects Focused on Economic Development and Safety 

 

http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php?topic=4500.msg554189#msg554189

 

 

I video taped all of the speakers and key moments of today's meetings.  I will try to get them up on youtube by Wednesday night. 

 

Tom Luken is the former Cincinnati mayor and congressional rep who has opposed every public transportation anything since he entered local politics in 1965.  The man is now 83 or 84 years old and is still campaigning against improved public transportation.  He is regularly quoted in the paper.

 

He hasn't been showing up to every meeting and event lately because his health is declining.  I've read enough of his stuff to know that he penciled out the speeches delivered by both his daughter and old cohort.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There's a survey on News5's website if anyone is interested in voting.  They are asking if the project should be abandoned now that the state has pulled its funding:

 

http://www.wlwt.com/index.html

Move this thread to the failed policy thread already Choo Choo fanboys :clap:

 

Speaking of Go COAST, I watched the GO Coast representative, Mr. Finney, enter his Twitter feed for COAST during the meeting.  Specifically the part where he tweeted "Bunch of funny looking YP types with green trolley buttons."  That was a particularly telling comment, as the majority of people that made the trip up were either Mr. Finney's age or older.  In other words, a typical COAST lie from their co-founder, Anderson Twp. resident ("but I have an office in uh Cincinnati...") Chris Finney.

This forum is for constructive debate on the Cincinnati Streetcar project regardless of whatever it's fate is. And until there is something from an official source (The City of Cincinnati) saying it's over, there is no reason to rename or relocate this thread. Anyone trolling around with accusatory remarks and no constructive contribution to this forum will be banned!

 

Thanks

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