>If Portland has streetcars

 

Portland has streetcars. 

>Seattle can afford a $2 billion project

 

Actually the University Link light rail extension was the recipient of a $813 million federal grant, which is paying for close to half of its capital cost:

http://www.soundtransit.org/About-Sound-Transit/News-and-events/News-releases/University-Link-TBM-launch.xml

 

Sound Transit collects a .9 cent sales tax and a small MVET tax from a huge multi-county area:

http://www.soundtransit.org/Documents/pdf/about/STDistrictMap07_10.pdf

 

Yes, Sound Transit collects more than Hamilton County would have under Metro Moves because a much larger population is taxed AND the Metro Moves tax was only 1/2 cent.  But Sound Transit is also expected to serve a much larger area, and Seattle has a much more difficult topographical situation than Cincinnati.  Seattle's light rail system has thus far been the most expensive, per foot, in the country due to the tunnels and viaducts. 

 

It's interesting that their light rail came first. I'm looking at a system map, photos, and stats right now and it looks like a significant portion of the total system is open right-of-way (not in a street) and diesel-powered (no overhead wire.) There are also portions that are electric and run in a street, obviously.

 

With the exception of a short diesel-powered commuter line between Wilsonville and Beaverton, Portland's rail transit system is entirely electric. The streetcar system almost entirely runs in city streets, while the MAX light rail system runs in city streets downtown and in dedicated rights-of-way outside of downtown.

I'm with Capell on this one.  Do we really think that the city has done all this work on the streetcar, and has failed to take into account the legal interplay between the sewers (or any other utility, for that matter) and the streetcar? 

 

Here's a question for Eighth and State:  I assume that we had sewers the last time we had streetcars, right?  How were they able to coexist then, but now the problems are insurmountable?

>I assume that we had sewers the last time we had streetcars, right?  How were they able to coexist then, but now the problems are insurmountable?

 

In some cases the tracks would have predated the rest of the utilities (Cincinnati had the unusual two-pole trolley arrangement because the same man owned the streetcar company and the phone company).  Also, the tracks were generally in the middle of the street, so the utilities were built on either side, closer to the curbs.  Since the new streetcar lines typically run along the curbs, in some cases the utilities need to be moved to the center of the street, where the old streetcar tracks were. 

 

But what he seems unable to understand is that work of this kind is routine, and it's only an issue here because we have an arrangement where the city owns the sewers but the county controls their capital improvement budget, and the county commissioners are playing politics with what should be a rubber stamp vote. 

 

 

Also, Seattle is NOT like comparing Cincinnati to Chicago. It's like comparing Cincinnati to Minneapolis (much more similar demographics to Seattle). Seattle and Chicago aren't close to being on the same page (15th largest metro vs. 3rd largest, 23rd largest City vs. 3rd largest, etc.)

I love reading GoCOAST and CincyCapell's interactions on twitter.  Highly recommend.

 

Usually Mark Miller doesn't respond back but I think Capell has started to get into his head. 

This article in CityBeat should provide some kicks:

 

COAST's Latest Apology

 

A series of contradictory tweets and blog comments posted by members of an anti-transit group has observers wondering of there is dissension in its ranks — or whether one member simply has anger management issues.

 

[...]

 

Less than 24 hours later, however, COAST posted the following comment, “We respect the outcome of the recent vote. We live in a democracy and the people have spoken. COAST wishes the City and its residents the best of luck as it builds the streetcar. While you won't see us turning shovels, we recognize what the people want and will get out of the way.”

 

We’re awaiting clarification from COAST on exactly what its plans are. If, in fact, members actually know.

 

The article includes a shout-out to our own Kevin LeMaster for debunking any notion of a fire department brownout at the time of a fire-related fatality in Westwood.

This article in CityBeat should provide some kicks:

 

COAST's Latest Apology

 

A series of contradictory tweets and blog comments posted by members of an anti-transit group has observers wondering of there is dissension in its ranks — or whether one member simply has anger management issues.

 

[...]

 

Less than 24 hours later, however, COAST posted the following comment, “We respect the outcome of the recent vote. We live in a democracy and the people have spoken. COAST wishes the City and its residents the best of luck as it builds the streetcar. While you won't see us turning shovels, we recognize what the people want and will get out of the way.”

 

We’re awaiting clarification from COAST on exactly what its plans are. If, in fact, members actually know.

 

The article includes a shout-out to our own Kevin LeMaster for debunking any notion of a fire department brownout at the time of a fire-related fatality in Westwood.

 

 

It's clear that Mark Miller is writing the incendiary posts on Twitter and elsewhere. I wonder which one of them wrote that apology and offer to get out of the way? It certainly wasn't Finney, who is in the process of filing a taxpayer lawsuit to stop or delay the project. It could be COAST Chairman Gloyd, he doesn't seem to be the shit thrower that Finney and Miller are.

COAST also said they'd get out of the way in 2009 after the defeat of Issue 9. I wouldn't trust them any further than I could throw them.

I'm disappointed in Kevin for that story.  It's pretty obvious that that was NOT COAST posting that, and that it was someone mocking COAST since you can just type any name you want.

 

He basically wrote an entire story on a false, anonymous post that used COAST as a handle.  I KNOW there are better things to write about than that..

This article in CityBeat should provide some kicks:

FWIW, I posted this in the coast section under Ohio Politics. It seemed more appropriate but whaddaiknow?

I'm disappointed in Kevin for that story.  It's pretty obvious that that was NOT COAST posting that, and that it was someone mocking COAST since you can just type any name you want.

 

He basically wrote an entire story on a false, anonymous post that used COAST as a handle.  I KNOW there are better things to write about than that..

 

I disagree. COAST needs to be continuously called out.  Just look st their tweets.  Masturbation streetcar jokes, continuing to lie about source of funding, cheering on murders on otr, linking children deaths to streetcars, comparing 9/11 to streetcars, etc

 

Edit: sorry octo I misunderstood your comment. The easiest way to get rid of fake anonymous names is to just make everything require logging into facebook

COAST also said they'd get out of the way in 2009 after the defeat of Issue 9. I wouldn't trust them any further than I could throw them.

"With your bad back, you shouldn't be throwing anyone!"

 

Sorry, just had to.

Welcome to UrbanOhio, Sledge.

I'm disappointed in Kevin for that story.  It's pretty obvious that that was NOT COAST posting that, and that it was someone mocking COAST since you can just type any name you want.

 

He basically wrote an entire story on a false, anonymous post that used COAST as a handle.  I KNOW there are better things to write about than that..

 

I disagree. COAST needs to be continuously called out.  Just look st their tweets.  Masturbation streetcar jokes, continuing to lie about source of funding, cheering on murders on otr, linking children deaths to streetcars, comparing 9/11 to streetcars, etc

 

Edit: sorry octo I misunderstood your comment. The easiest way to get rid of fake anonymous names is to just make everything require logging into facebook

 

I agree with both of you.  Octo is right.  I doubt the comments posted by Kevin in the article were actual COAST members(Although its much tougher now to differentiate with all the junk they've posted in the last year I wouldn't be surprised if it is)...Regardless, its a product of anonymous comment postings.  Its a simple solution to fix

I'm with Capell on this one.  Do we really think that the city has done all this work on the streetcar, and has failed to take into account the legal interplay between the sewers (or any other utility, for that matter) and the streetcar? 

 

Here's a question for Eighth and State:  I assume that we had sewers the last time we had streetcars, right?  How were they able to coexist then, but now the problems are insurmountable?

 

We've gone through this before, and Jake also provided some insight, but since you asked,

 

Yes, the City has failed to take into account the legal interplay between the proposed streetcar and existing utilities. I'm not here to blame anyone; mistakes are made, and we move on. I have been saying all along that the feasibility study from 2007 paid very little attention to utilities, and that feasibility study set the tone for the whole project.

 

The problems are not insurmountable. They can be solved, given enough money. But trying to pass the cost on to someone else is not always a successful strategy.

 

Like Jake said, many of the historic streetcars were there first before any utilities. Cincinnati's historic streetcars, starting with horse-drawn streetcars, got their start in the 1860's era. Cincinnati didn't start building sewers in earnest until the 1870's, though there are some older than that (and still in service!) Plus, back then, nobody cared too much about access like they do now, traffic speeds including streetcars were much less, and it wasn't necessarily a problem to build a manhole between the tracks. More people died in accidents back then, too, which is not acceptable today.

 

But there's more. Cincinnati's streets today contain:

Water mains, sometimes more than one.

Gas mains, sometimes more than one.

Sewers, usually combined in downtown and Over-the-Rhine

Electric, either underground or overhead

Telephone, either underground or overhead

Cable TV, either underground or overhead

Fiber optic lines from up to 5 different communications companies.

Cooling water lines (for air conditioners) in the CBD

"Services," or branch lines serving individual buildings, for all of the aforementioned utilities.

Lots of abandoned stuff, including old streetcar rails, that gets in the way. Abandoned stuff can usually be removed at some cost.

Various undergound tunnels connecting the basements of buildings across the street, air-conditioning equipment, occasional coal chutes, the subway tunnels, and other miscellaneous stuff.

Also, you can't just dig right next to a building, especially the older ones, without expensive shoring which also takes up space.

 

So, the point is that the streets are already congested with utilities. Moving the sewer, or any other utility, is an option, but there isn't always space availble to relocate it. All of this stuff in the street simply didn't exist in 1920, though some of it did. Downtown Cincinnati and Over-the-Rhine is one of the toughest areas to work in. If a streetcar was proposed in, say, Northland Avenue in Springdale, it wouldn't cost nearly as much to build, because there is both more room in a wider street and fewer utilities. Also, most construction work today is done by machine rather than by hand labor like it was in 1920. If the utilities are so congested as to require hand labor, that increases the cost.

 

I'll add this detail just to demonstrate the complexity: the Ohio EPA controls installation of new sewers in Ohio. (Again, Cincinnati can't just do anything it wants!) One of their rules is that they want sewers and water mains to be separated by 10 feet horizontally, in order to protect public health from cross-contamination. Sometimes the street is so congested that you just don't have 10 feet. The Ohio EPA will make exceptions under certain conditions, and there are certainly lots of situations out there that pre-date this rule, but this is an example of another possible conflict and yet another group of people that could hinder this project, not because they are opposed to the streetcar, but because they are doing their job. And yes, the Ohio EPA has been known to shut down entire projects. This wasn't an issue at all with Cincinnati's historic streetcars, because the EPA didn't exist back then.

 

 

But what he seems unable to understand is that work of this kind is routine, and it's only an issue here because we have an arrangement where the city owns the sewers but the county controls their capital improvement budget, and the county commissioners are playing politics with what should be a rubber stamp vote.

 

I agree with you that this kind of work is routine, though it's more difficult than the typical construction project, and that the commissioners are playing politics (after all, that's their job). Whether or not it should be a rubber stamp approval is a matter for debate. It's not really a surprise that the commissioners didn't approve the funding for the streetcar project, since most of their support comes from the suburbs. Also, they just cut ~$20 million from the annual budget of MSD.

 

I hope I answered your question, and for the regular forumers, sorry about the repetition.

 

8th & state is offering up another of his "legal opinions" as fact again.

And yes, the Ohio EPA has been known to shut down entire projects.

 

Read more: http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,18957.15630.html#ixzz1i3Yjus5Q

 

Why the hell would the EPA shut down the Streetcar project after it got a Finding of No Significant Impact?

And yes, the Ohio EPA has been known to shut down entire projects.

 

Read more: http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,18957.15630.html#ixzz1i3Yjus5Q

 

Why the hell would the EPA shut down the Streetcar project after it got a Finding of No Significant Impact?

 

It's just part and parcel of his anti-streetcar meme.

^ I think he is implying that if the sewers need to be moved because of the streetcar, and there isn't a way to move them that preserves 10' of space between them and water lines, then the EPA could object.

a lot of references have been made to state laws this and state laws that... but Cincinnati is a home-rule city.. so some rules/laws do not apply. Just my $0.02

Well they finalized a deal with Water Works so I guess it's really not that big of a mountain after all:

 

Digging On First Phase Of Streetcar To Begin Soon

 

City Strikes Deal With Water Works

Written By: John London

 

CINCINNATI -- Another step has been taken along the path to the Cincinnati Streetcar project. An agreement to relocate utilities has been reached with Greater Cincinnati Water Works.

 

The city of Cincinnati needs the water lines adjusted in order to construct the initial loop of the streetcar from The Banks to Findlay Market in Over-the-Rhine.

 

The agreement means that actual digging for the first phase of the route will start sometime in the early part of 2012. The precise location for beginning the dig has yet to be determined.

 

^ that should really pissed off the COASTers and other assorted wingnuts.

 

WIN!!

Chris smitherman hheas his own show on 700wlw now..on right now....

 

He criticized fountain square and yelled about the streetcar "choo choo".

 

Will have winburn on to rip on the streetcar later

Chris smitherman hheas his own show on 700wlw now..on right now....

 

He criticized fountain square and yelled about the streetcar "choo choo".

 

Will have winburn on to rip on the streetcar later

Winburn on WLW: "The drug dealers in OTR are happy that the streetcar is coming!"

 

Winburn and Smitherman's repeated addressing each other as "council member" has me rolling my eyes HARD. They've obviously been coached to do that.

Chris smitherman hheas his own show on 700wlw now..on right now....

 

He criticized fountain square and yelled about the streetcar "choo choo".

 

Will have winburn on to rip on the streetcar later

 

HA! They're still bitching about Fountain Square?? That project was completed what, 3 or 4 years ago? What a couple of losers. Fortunately, both Windbag & Smitherman will be marginalized and blocked on Council.

Chris smitherman hheas his own show on 700wlw now..on right now....

 

He criticized fountain square and yelled about the streetcar "choo choo".

 

Will have winburn on to rip on the streetcar later

 

HA! They're still bitching about Fountain Square?? That project was completed what, 3 or 4 years ago? What a couple of losers. Fortunately, both Windbag & Smitherman will be marginalized and blocked on Council.

The renovation of FS was done in October 2006. Over 5 years of progress on the "new" Square and people are still ripping it. They obviously haven't been there for a Bengals tailgate recently.

Chris smitherman hheas his own show on 700wlw now..on right now....

 

He criticized fountain square and yelled about the streetcar "choo choo".

 

Will have winburn on to rip on the streetcar later

 

HA! They're still bitching about Fountain Square?? That project was completed what, 3 or 4 years ago? What a couple of losers. Fortunately, both Windbag & Smitherman will be marginalized and blocked on Council.

The renovation of FS was done in October 2006. Over 5 years of progress on the "new" Square and people are still ripping it. They obviously haven't been there for a Bengals tailgate recently.

 

Unbelievable. Only in Cincinnati.

Chris smitherman hheas his own show on 700wlw now..on right now....

 

He criticized fountain square and yelled about the streetcar "choo choo".

 

Will have winburn on to rip on the streetcar later

 

HA! They're still bitching about Fountain Square?? That project was completed what, 3 or 4 years ago? What a couple of losers. Fortunately, both Windbag & Smitherman will be marginalized and blocked on Council.

The renovation of FS was done in October 2006. Over 5 years of progress on the "new" Square and people are still ripping it. They obviously haven't been there for a Bengals tailgate recently.

 

Unbelievable. Only in Cincinnati.

 

Not really.  I know people in Chicago that complain about Millennium Park all the time.

Well they finalized a deal with Water Works so I guess it's really not that big of a mountain after all:

 

 

Someone correct me if I'm wrong here, but I believe the major issue is with the MSD (which is county owned--READ: THE PROBLEM--and operated by the city under a contract) versus the GCWW (which is city owned since the early 19th century). One organization drains water, the other pumps it in and purifies it.

Chris Smitherman had his own show on 700 WLW?  Did I not predict this back in May?  Yes I did:

 

http://www.cincinnatimonocle.blogspot.com/2011/05/is-chris-smitherman-getting-his-own.html

Darryl parks just said "80% of the people don't want this streetcar" & that "the people have demonstrated over and over that they dint want it but the city continues to move forward"

 

Apparently he forgot the 2009 & 2011 elections

Well they finalized a deal with Water Works so I guess it's really not that big of a mountain after all:

 

Digging On First Phase Of Streetcar To Begin Soon

 

City Strikes Deal With Water Works

Written By: John London

 

CINCINNATI -- Another step has been taken along the path to the Cincinnati Streetcar project. An agreement to relocate utilities has been reached with Greater Cincinnati Water Works.

 

The city of Cincinnati needs the water lines adjusted in order to construct the initial loop of the streetcar from The Banks to Findlay Market in Over-the-Rhine.

 

The agreement means that actual digging for the first phase of the route will start sometime in the early part of 2012. The precise location for beginning the dig has yet to be determined.

 

 

Finally!  Some actual streetcar news!

 

Do you think we'll be hearing about a ground breaking ceremony anytime soon?  I think the city really needs to get this going.

Well they finalized a deal with Water Works so I guess it's really not that big of a mountain after all:

 

Digging On First Phase Of Streetcar To Begin Soon

 

City Strikes Deal With Water Works

Written By: John London

 

CINCINNATI -- Another step has been taken along the path to the Cincinnati Streetcar project. An agreement to relocate utilities has been reached with Greater Cincinnati Water Works.

 

The city of Cincinnati needs the water lines adjusted in order to construct the initial loop of the streetcar from The Banks to Findlay Market in Over-the-Rhine.

 

The agreement means that actual digging for the first phase of the route will start sometime in the early part of 2012. The precise location for beginning the dig has yet to be determined.

 

 

Finally!  Some actual streetcar news!

 

Do you think we'll be hearing about a ground breaking ceremony anytime soon?  I think the city really needs to get this going.

 

Finally.  Lets build Mallory's Marxist Communist Socialist Sacreligious Anti-Christ trolly folly crime train choo choo to nowhere streetcar boondoggle that will bankrupt the city, state, midwest, nation, Continent, planet, solar system, and known universe

What exactly is the purpose of rehashing falsehoods that are spread across 700WLW airwaves daily?

 

 

What exactly is the purpose of rehashing falsehoods that are spread across 700WLW airwaves daily?

 

In other news, the sky is blue and Fox News had a Republican congressman from the deep south on attributing climate science to the gay agenda.

What exactly is the purpose of rehashing falsehoods that are spread across 700WLW airwaves daily?

FakeCinEnquirer was being sarcastic.

What exactly is the purpose of rehashing falsehoods that are spread across 700WLW airwaves daily?

FakeCinEnquirer was being sarcastic.

I think he was referring to NBow37's comments. But let's move on...

Well they finalized a deal with Water Works so I guess it's really not that big of a mountain after all:

 

Digging On First Phase Of Streetcar To Begin Soon

 

City Strikes Deal With Water Works

Written By: John London

 

CINCINNATI -- Another step has been taken along the path to the Cincinnati Streetcar project. An agreement to relocate utilities has been reached with Greater Cincinnati Water Works.

 

The city of Cincinnati needs the water lines adjusted in order to construct the initial loop of the streetcar from The Banks to Findlay Market in Over-the-Rhine.

 

The agreement means that actual digging for the first phase of the route will start sometime in the early part of 2012. The precise location for beginning the dig has yet to be determined.

 

 

Finally!  Some actual streetcar news!

 

Do you think we'll be hearing about a ground breaking ceremony anytime soon?  I think the city really needs to get this going.

 

Finally.  Lets build Mallory's Marxist Communist Socialist Sacreligious Anti-Christ trolly folly crime train choo choo to nowhere streetcar boondoggle that will bankrupt the city, state, midwest, nation, Continent, planet, solar system, and known universe

 

FakeCinEnquirer FTW!!!

>HA! They're still bitching about Fountain Square??

 

In ten years after Over-the-Rhine is completely repopulated, and downtown is healthier than it has been in 40-50 years, COAST will not attribute it to the streetcar.  Instead, they will attribute it to the casino or perhaps some future charter amendment of their own hand.

 

But they'll quickly cite repopulation of the city as a problem -- they absolutely will blame the streetcar for black people moving to your neighborhood.  In fact, this is already happening, as many white west siders have been blaming "the city" for tearing down public housing, and more recently the redevelopment of OTR.

 

 

>HA! They're still bitching about Fountain Square??

 

In ten years after Over-the-Rhine is completely repopulated, and downtown is healthier than it has been in 40-50 years, COAST will not attribute it to the streetcar.  Instead, they will attribute it to the casino or perhaps some future charter amendment of their own hand.

 

But they'll quickly cite repopulation of the city as a problem -- they absolutely will blame the streetcar for black people moving to your neighborhood.  In fact, this is already happening, as many white west siders have been blaming "the city" for tearing down public housing, and more recently the redevelopment of OTR.

 

 

 

We're from a strange city, but I think most of the frequent posters on this thread do a good job of not being resigned to failure in hopes of 5% intellectual vindication and 95% financial repercussion as so many others are like Smitherman, Winburn and COAST.

Unbelievable. Only in Cincinnati.

 

You need to visit more cities and listen to their talk radio stations. Or just visit other cities' newspaper websites and check out the public comment sections below each article about _________ project. A newcomer to this country might think we're the unhappiest people in the world. I guess too many of our countrymen forgot that only the pursuit of happiness was guaranteed.  :argue:

 

Tomorrow's a new year. Let's work toward ensuring that, in 365 days, we will have construction photos posted in this thread.

In fact, this is already happening, as many white west siders have been blaming "the city" for tearing down public housing, and more recently the redevelopment of OTR.

 

"The City" is a term that means different things to different people. Most on this board use "The City" to refer to the City of Cincinnati Municipality, aka the City Proper. In wider use, "The City" can mean anything from the Cincinnati Metro area, anyplace with a Cincinnati mailing address, or even a more limited definition such as Downtown Cincinnati, which itself means different things to different people. Some think that "Downtown" reaches as far north as St. Bernard! For those that don't follow urban issues and government, all of the local governments and even the state and federal government run together.

 

This is a topic for another thread, but the controversy in the West Side is partly due to the Cincinnati Metropolitan Housing Authority, which is not part of the Cincinnati Municipality at all, but is a Hamilton County agency that manages funds from Housing and Urban Development (HUD), to provide and maintain housing for low-income families. Since the CMHA has the same name "Cincinnati" in it's title, people who don't know any better think that the CMHA is the same group of people trying to build the streetcar. The controversy on the West Side is that Green Township has filed a lawsuit to block CMHA from aquiring property in Green Township. CMHA has been tasked with providing 32 public housing units in Green Township, after a HUD investigation found that a CMHA board chairman had blocked CMHA from acquiring properties in Green Township. What a mess!

 

The other day I thought about sitting down and compliing a list of all the local governments and agencies just to get them straight in my own mind, but the task is overwhelming. Even the City of Cincinnati has 26 different departments, which don't necessarily cooperate with each other. Plus there's the Cincinanti Public Schools, the Public Library of Cincinnati and Hamilton County, The Cincinnati Chamber of Commerce, and 100 other institutions with the name "Cincinnati." Just look at the headline above: "City strikes deal with Water Works." But the Cincinnati Water Works is one of the divisions of the City of Cincinnati Municipality! No wonder people are confused.

 

^we call people who use terms like "this city " when referring to actions by the county, Feds etc as "ignorant "

Well, we now know COAST's gameplan:

 

"Ohio has a taxpayer statute that applies to cities.  The statute empowers a taxpayer, in the name of the city, to bring a law suit challenging activities by the city that is illegal or impermissible under applicable law, which could be the Ohio Constitution, State Law, Federal law, or, here, an agreement with the County when the City took over MSD operations and transferred the system's assets to the County, and principles of common law.

 

A prerequisite to the taxpayer attaining standing is that he must first issue a warning letter to the City Solicitor.  The City's top lawyer, then, having been notified of the illegal conduct, must "take a pass" on the issue and thereby empower the taxpayer to bring the suit in the name of the City

 

COASTers previously have used this legal tool to stop illegal spending on the Film Commission and to stop Council member Laure Quinlivan from using tax dollars to fund her campaign for Cincinnati City Council."

 

Delay, delay, delay chicken little COASTers. I'm not going to link their website on this site but this is what we can expect from them

Coast / Finney's use of taxpayer lawsuits is no surprise, he's filed dozens of them. Go to the clerk of courts website and search by attorneys under Finney's name and you can see all of them.

I remember when the Right used to make fun of the Left for filing so many lawsuits.

^My dad used to say, "The Democrats are right about some things, and the Republicans are right about some things. But both Democrats and Republicans are wrong about most things."

 

In any case, politicians and political hopefuls tend to be lawyers more than anything else. Filing lawsuits is what they do.

 

 

 

 

^My dad used to say, "The Democrats are right about some things, and the Republicans are right about some things. But both Democrats and Republicans are wrong about most things."

 

In any case, politicians and political hopefuls tend to be lawyers more than anything else. Filing lawsuits is what they do.

 

 

 

 

 

Really? Cause I don't see any other Cincinnati politicians filing so many useless lawsuits.

 

This too shall pass. COAST will keep whining and clawing at anything they can and while we shouldn't get overconfident - this project is in the best shape its been in so far. We're so close to the finish line. If the Enquirer is even now ignoring COAST - I take that as a good sign since most Cincinnati voters have been ignoring them the past four years.